Conversations on flirting

[anisotrophic]

I was feeling down, thinking about how flirting is different now. Mostly, I don't do it -- or rather, it's hard to do it in the same way, seriously, knowing there's no attraction to provoke. I still do it playfully.

 

Feeling sad or a little broken that I'm losing this experience? Realizing it was illusory, so in a sense I never had it.

 

And that it's so disconcerting to realize how I can misunderstand others (anyone can), even when it seems like we're communicating and friendly. But where I thought his reaction to flirting was shy or embarrassed -- or maybe annoyed by trying to ignore a positive distraction while focusing on another thing -- he was actually a bit stressed in a negative way. Not terribly negative, just in a "trying to be nice" sense.

 

I mean, it wasn't totally negative. Flirtation can still be positive to receive, as something flattering. But it wasn't ever what I'd hoped; I'd been doing for him what I'd like to receive, not realizing.

 

"To be fair," he noted wryly, "it did work."

 

Hah! Because he would try to be nice and respond, regularly enough for me to feel like it was "working". But not for the reason I thought it should!

 

"This sounds like one of those things where I feel like nothing has really changed, it was like this all along, but you feel like something major happened," he added.

 

We were talking about it because this started expanding in my head. How many interactions do I second-guess now? How many times are people "just trying to be nice"? What's real?

 

"It's normal for people to pretend to be nice to their boss, even when they're not feeling it," he said.

 

"Yes but... I feel so hyperaware of this now. I'm worried about what I'm not knowing, if they're frustrated or upset with me."

 

I know, it's a normal part of human behavior. But how I could so misunderstand flirting... for over a decade, with someone I'm so close to... is making me feel... too aware. I think things tend to work best when we're not constantly second-guessing other people? Although it's good to be aware that people can be reacting positively when not feeling it.

 

And to be fair, as he said... from my perspective, the flirting had been "working"! So... I shouldn't obsessively worry about it. I wasn't behaving unreasonably.

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

I'd been doing for him what I'd like to receive, not realizing.

I think we all tend to do this so much, in so many ways, often without having any idea how much it isn’t succeeding.

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

I think things tend to work best when we're not constantly second-guessing other people? Although it's good to be aware that people can be reacting positively when not feeling it.

Isn’t this ultimately the responsibility of the person reacting?  If you do or say something, the other person gets to choose how to respond.  They may respond honestly or dishonestly, and they may do either for good/positive/nice reasons or for negative/unkind ones.

 

I mean, I want to know when people are respondingly falsely to me, but in the end I’m not a mindreader and I have to take their reactions at face value.

[anisotrophic]

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Isn’t this ultimately the responsibility of the person reacting?  If you do or say something, the other person gets to choose how to respond.  They may respond honestly or dishonestly, and they may do either for good/positive/nice reasons or for negative/unkind ones.

Mostly. But it can be driven by fear of repercussions. For example, something caused by a power imbalance. Power imbalance can be obvious, but it can also be subtle, e.g. social power. Someone makes an inappropriate joke & people laugh anyway... due to social power.

Of course with my partner, it wasn't so much a power imbalance as "not knowing".

But in other situations... I think it's important to be aware that it could be happening? A doctor should be aware that a patient may be hesitant to complain about symptoms. People with power that accept flattery at face value may get distorted in their perceptions of themselves & the world.

[ryn2]

That makes sense, but I’m not sure there’s a good way around it.  Someone who feels they must react a certain way due to a power imbalance will likely not be easily reassured that openness is safe and welcome.

[anamikanon]

I can so resonate with this. I've always flirted with my ace. Don't know if it "does" anything to him (probably not), but he does enjoy it. A lot. For him, it is romantic, affectionate behavior between us. I find myself second guessing a lot of things, and frankly, flirting doesn't make a lot of sense without sex in the picture - what is being hinted at? That I want to have sex with an ace? That I expect this to make him want sex? That he's interested in invitations to get physically closer?

 

It is automatic behavior and I still do it thoughtlessly when I'm not aware and second guessing myself. And he still enjoys it. But if I think of it, I'm all frozen.

 

I've thought through this and seen his responses, and he does take flirting as an invitation to get closer and enjoys that invitation and takes it up often... just not sexually. So... I guess it does work, in an unusual kind of way. Or something. More like affectionate teasing or something.

 

Edit: Sultry look gets a cuddle 😛 Though frankly, it has always been like that and I hadn't second guessed it till I explicitly knew sex does nothing for him.

[anisotrophic]

Thinking about it, I feel like my flirting behavior has become bifurcated – to serious & not-serious versions. Both of them very self-aware of the asymmetry.

 

Serious flirting – seeking physical contact, vulnerable, loving, apologetic, happens when I'm tired

Joking flirting – spontaneous, blatant, horrible pick-up lines, happens when I'm cheerful

I really hope I'm never pressuring. But I think the split has happened because I'm trying to hold back on being genuinely needy or unhappy. But the former type eventually starts happening anyway, leaking through, not forcefully. The second type is fun, like I can relax and express myself a bit.

[anamikanon]

So many of your posts NAIL our situation that I need to check that I'm not running a second profile here in my sleep. lol.

[anisotrophic]

I will do the dishes... if you think maybe we could have sex soon...
*moves hands in suggestive dish washing motion*

</ allo partner seduction techniques>

[Telecaster68]

It would probably be as effective as anything else...

[anamikanon]

5 hours ago, anisotropic said:

I will do the dishes... if you think maybe we could have sex soon...
*moves hands in suggestive dish washing motion*

</ allo partner seduction techniques>

Romantic scene in film.

 

"See what they are doing." in a very "The neighbour got a new TV.... [hint]" style 😛

 

Though as you say, it is "bifurcated". I'm more likely to do such corny suggestions about things he likes to do. So say a kissing/cuddling scene more likely than sex - which I will likely not comment on. And... yep. It works. I get an instant kiss/cuddle. And sometimes, a scene will come up and he'll look at me like he's expecting me to say something even if I haven't. And I get a cuddle anyway

 

Edit: It only works for ace stuff. If I try that during a sex scene, I'll still get a cuddle. But yeah, I can get body massages like that too