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Is there room to grow?


bcb86

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Hi all! 

I’ve been dating my boyfriend for two years. I’m a sexual woman with a medium to high sex drive and I believe he is asexual. I broke up with him a year ago with sex being only amongst the reasons — unrelated issues and a lack of general intimacy were more important. I felt like he treated me like a sister and didn’t make me feel special. I had decided that he just needed a different sort of relationship than I did (mine, romantic; his, friendly). We got back together a few months later, because he insisted he was just being an idiot and taking me for granted, and that he wanted to make me feel special and even try sex. Everything but sex improved DRAMATICALLY. I now feel completely satisfied with the romance, cuddles, cute gestures, etc that make me feel special. It really amazes me that he changed so much and it’s been consistent for a year, I don’t think it’s forced. We’ve been making baby steps with the sex, but it’s a struggle because we’re in a long distance relationship so we’re only physically together every few months or so.  

What im feeling now is that he’s not completely ace — he’s definitely very different from other men I’ve been with and has made comments like he just doesn’t think about it too much. However we’ve had occasions where he gets very into making out, and conversations about how I don’t expect him to rail me like a pornstar help him to come out of his shell a bit. We’ve had some good foreplay-type sessions and even a heated conversation about fantasies, but I feel like it exhausts him. It seems to me that there is room for us to meet in the middle and for me to be very satisfied depending on what kind of growth he can do and compromises I can make, but I’m constantly afraid of pushing him into things he doesn’t want. I’m also afraid that we are doomed to fail and I’m just putting him through a lot of suffering for no reason. I feel right now that the sex is not that important, but I do have strong desires at times and have thoughts of seeking outside the relationship. I worry that my mind will change later and that I’ll hurt him by cheating. 

I’m curious if people have any input on the possibility of building a satisfying sex life if he has a small bit of desire and I’m willing to be flexible. Also, the big question: is sex all that important in the long term? Everyone talks about how important it is for a marriage, but I really only feel the tug every couple weeks or so and feel like it’s so much more important that he’s my best friend. Despite being a sexual person, I’ve found sexual men’s desires overwhelming in past relationships. Sometimes I think I’d enjoy our “compromise” sex life more than one with a sexual man where I’d be the person desiring less. 

Thoughts?

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An asexual never feels the need for/the urge to/ desire for partnered sex. They may like and enjoy, but it is never in order to fulfill them and make them feel whole and happy. Therefore it is usually done with an imbalance, it is always for the sexuals sake. Which done with love, can be fantastic, though still out of balance.

 

In some intellectual ways, I like that my wife is with me because of other qualities than my looks and sexual abilities. On an emotional level, I would really enjoy if she thougth I looked good or wanted me to look at her with not only love, but also desire. 

 

It helped us when we agreed upon having a more businesslike approach to sex as a scheduled thing we did, mostly to aid me by giving me a ‘massage’ to give me joy and ease at body/mind and occasionally, when stars are aligned and she got past her initial awkwardness, then I am allowed to share the moment with her and she also enjoys getting and not just giving. It often feels a bit like a chore for her, though. (I think)

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I think he is in a bit of a gray area in terms of whether or not he can be categorized as asexual. He wouldn’t have a problem with it if we never had sex, and he doesn’t think about sex much. However he can get aroused and he watches porn or reads erotica on occasion. It’s like his sex drive is extremely quiet, but I do believe he’s qualitatively different from sexual men and that’s why I consider him asexual. So I feel like there may be room for him to find ways of engaging with sex that he can genuinely enjoy, but that’s all my own hunches. 

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You can be asexual and still have a sex drive and get physically turned on by porn or whatever or enjoy kissing & cuddling. The only crucial question is whether he desires sex, which he doesn't seem to do. That said, could he get used to having sex? I think he might. That he's willing to make the effort is a good start. Is it going to work in the long term? I have no idea. I really don't have any experience in that area, I can only wish you good luck!

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3 hours ago, bcb86 said:

been making baby steps with the sex, but it’s a struggle because we’re in a long distance relationship so we’re only physically together every few months or so.  

I was in an LDR with my ace for 3 years and had sometimes erratic but often hot sex which he enjoyed too. He moved in last December and sex was OVER. As in switched off. Immediately. He was able to handle the sex in the "bubble" of a visit - limited time and context - for which he had a mental script of it being sexy. His arousal is largely in his own head. He doesn't feel attraction for me. So while he was visiting his hot girlfriend with whom hot sex would be had, sex seemed part of the "script" in his head. He has no mental scripts for daily household sex. Dead end.

 

Many others here too have described good or average, but working sex in the phase while they were still living separate and it ending after moving in or after marriage, etc.

 

I would highly recommend a LONG holiday or visit together. Think upwards of a week. Any problems will manifest once the initial days are done. See if you can handle them forever.

 

3 hours ago, bcb86 said:

What im feeling now is that he’s not completely ace — he’s definitely very different from other men I’ve been with and has made comments like he just doesn’t think about it too much.

Whatever he is, remember one thing, he isn't thinking of sex the way you do. My ace is sex indifferent and can have sex with me without being too bothered. He can even physically enjoy it. And a few days ago, I moved him to his own bedroom because he simply didn't want it anyway. He is able, but wanting it at the end of the day regardless of the pressures of routine life takes a bit more than wanting - it takes prioritizing your energy for it or it is just a big chore he feels pressured to do if he wants to keep his partner (and since I don't pressure him, no sex). He actually planned to do that, but so far has never been able. He can literally watch films till 4am but fall asleep at 9pm if sex is brought up. lol. That's what history textbooks used to do to me as a kid.

 

3 hours ago, bcb86 said:

I’m curious if people have any input on the possibility of building a satisfying sex life if he has a small bit of desire and I’m willing to be flexible.

Nope. I don't really think an asexual can "satisfy" a sexual for anything beyond say.... a few hours. What we call "occasional sex" "really infrequent sex" "had sex once a month", they call "thinking of sex all the time" "All they want is sex" etc. This is a general idea, not an accusation about all aces or all sexuals.

 

Regardless of how flexible you are willing to be, if you are looking for sexual satisfaction, I'd highly recommend looking elsewhere. But if sex isn't such a big deal and you're willing to live with frustration and have it very occasionally and be prepared for that to fail too.... you could make it work. 

 

In other words, there is no such thing as a satisfying sexual life with an ace, but if there are other factors you want them in your life and are willing and able to take the considerable denial to follow as an acceptable price.... then it may work. Getting into a relationship with an asexual for the sex is plain nuts.

 

3 hours ago, bcb86 said:

Also, the big question: is sex all that important in the long term?

In my experience, with two decades of a sexual life, sex was never a big deal. It became a very big deal after my partner whom I loved very much didn't want it.

 

3 hours ago, bcb86 said:

Everyone talks about how important it is for a marriage, but I really only feel the tug every couple weeks or so and feel like it’s so much more important that he’s my best friend. Despite being a sexual person, I’ve found sexual men’s desires overwhelming in past relationships. Sometimes I think I’d enjoy our “compromise” sex life more than one with a sexual man where I’d be the person desiring less. 

Thoughts?

I suffered marital rape in a previous relationship. A solid 2 years of wanting no sex whatsoever. And I am sexually frustrated with this one. No two sexual relationships have been the same for me. There have been some where we seemed soul mates and the sex was consistently the stuff you'd see in porn films and mutual. There were others where I was mostly bored. And then there is this one, where sometimes I think I'm more like a lecher than a partner.

 

My limited point is that it isn't a useful guide to judge present relationships by past ones. You're on this forum because you're worried about sexual frustration - something you haven't done in previous relationships, right? Here's a more accurate gauge.

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@bcb86 Welcome to AVEN!

 

Asexuality is a lack of Sexual Attraction, but Sexual Attraction is defined as leading to the desire for sex with a specific person, so arousal that doesn't lead to this desire, doesn't qualify. With that in mind, I'd say your boyfriend is Asexual rather than in a grey area.

 

Have you talked to him about the possibility that he's Asexual?
There's a short book about Asexuality that you can read online for free, that may help, http://www.asexualityarchive.com/book/

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake,

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Thank you for all the replies!!

2 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

@bcb86 Welcome to AVEN!

 

Asexuality is a lack of Sexual Attraction, but Sexual Attraction is defined as leading to the desire for sex with a specific person, so arousal that doesn't lead to this desire, doesn't qualify. With that in mind, I'd say your boyfriend is Asexual rather than in a grey area.

 

Have you talked to him about the possibility that he's Asexual?

Thank you Michael, and thanks for the cake! You're right, that definitely describes him. He says he has fantasies but it feels weird to apply them to me because he "doesn't think of me that way" and "respects me too much."  I've talked to him about being asexual and he doesn't like the idea, because he seems to think that if he admits/accepts being asexual  we will be doomed. So he tries to act like he can push himself to be different, but it's clear to me that the fact he feels that way means he's asexual. However, the first time we had a conversation where I was clear with him that I didn't expect him to do all the things a sexual man could do and I'm happy to just explore with him the things he *is* comfortable with, he said it made a huge difference for him and that it made him a bit excited to explore.

 

9 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Nope. I don't really think an asexual can "satisfy" a sexual for anything beyond say.... a few hours. What we call "occasional sex" "really infrequent sex" "had sex once a month", they call "thinking of sex all the time" "All they want is sex" etc. This is a general idea, not an accusation about all aces or all sexuals.

 

Regardless of how flexible you are willing to be, if you are looking for sexual satisfaction, I'd highly recommend looking elsewhere. But if sex isn't such a big deal and you're willing to live with frustration and have it very occasionally and be prepared for that to fail too.... you could make it work. 

 

 In other words, there is no such thing as a satisfying sexual life with an ace, but if there are other factors you want them in your life and are willing and able to take the considerable denial to follow as an acceptable price.... then it may work. Getting into a relationship with an asexual for the sex is plain nuts.

Well, it's really that I really don't mind taking care of my needs alone for a good majority of the time. I kind of believe that my friends in sexual relationships are generally having bad sex. By being flexible, I mean that maybe I'd occasionally have sex outside the relationship (neither of us want that, but both of us are willing to consider it if need be down the road) and that 90% of times I have an orgasm it's by myself, and truly that's fine.

 

I don't totally see why there isn't room for us to explore desires together in way that isn't just a chore for him. If he enjoys the physical sensations and has certain fantasies, couldn't we find a way to enjoy things together? Again with the flexibility, I've had ideas like maybe we'd eventually get to a place where we enjoyed watching porn together, or using toys to make things a bit less intense in terms of the amount of activity demanded from him. Of course getting to things like that would still require years of work between us which I understand.

 

I'm not that bothered by not having sex right now because I'm deeply involved in my work life and don't really have time to think about sex, let alone cook clean or take care of myself in general! (And I'll probably always be like this.) I think about sex for more than a few minutes maybe once every few weeks and take care of it myself and I really don't mind it. But there are two situations that I am really concerned about: (1) when my friends talk about their sex lives, I get jealous and it gives me the temptation to stray. But that seems like the kind of thing I should just "get over". The more important thing is (2), if my boyfriend and I have a romantic night where we're feeling very in love and soppy and all that, it makes me want to come home and make love as part of feeling connected. That is something that only happens occasionally, but it's much more important to me than the desire-because-you're-horny which I can take care of by myself. I have no idea if he could ever do that or if I could get over that one. That's where I see continuing frustration for me, whereas general lack of sex I think I could cope with pretty well.

 

Also, a bit of context about me (you might understand because of your past traumatic experience): due to some of my own past experiences, my ideal life would be if I could be rid of my sexual desires and never need to think about it. I have noticed my desires go down as a result of being with him and I love it. I'd like to think about it less, so it's not so much that I'm "looking" for sexual satisfaction. In my current life I'm happy with the situation 95% of the time and I currently feel good about the relationship, but I just worry that that 5% dissatisfaction would become a problem in the future and I'm just in denial about it. (Context: we're at a point where by the end of this year it's either break up while we get jobs in different cities or move in together and start a life together, and I'm afraid of the commitment if there are red flags!)

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Welcome @bcb86! I'd agree with previous posts that highlight the distinction between arousal and attraction. Someone can be capable of experiencing arousal without experiencing attraction or desire for sex with someone.


I do have a satisfying sex life & relationship with my partner. He doesn't identify as "gray" but as "sex-indifferent ace". He's physically completely fine with engaging in the act, and becoming aroused as needed for it, but he isn't experiencing any intrinsic attraction or desire for sex.

Here's some lessons or brutal truths or tips from my personal experience.
 

  • sex is entirely possible without attraction
    Think about a straight porn actor agreeing to a gay sex scenes (except hopefully a lot less work, porn acting actually sounds like it's a lot of work). There's nothing wrong with having sex with someone we aren't attracted to. Unlike the porn actor or prostitute, an asexual partner is likely doing it because they care about you, they recognize your sexuality is important – maybe an emotional thing for you – and want you to be happy.
     
  • all sex is charity sex
    It always is and always will be. You can get it twice a week or once a month – however much it is, it's fundamentally asymmetric, you can't expect otherwise. You're a chore, but hopefully a minor one, on the scale of "doing the dishes". There is no "enthusiastic consent" ever. But also note: an asexual partner is motivated to make you happy so being bitter or unsatisfied is not a great incentive, in my experience! Instead, I focus on gratitude and expressing happiness and thankfulness for sexual intimacy: I'm getting a gift and I'm thankful for it.
     
  • communication and empathy
    You may be having profoundly different experiences. Humans naturally fill in the blanks with how we usually experience things, and this is a situation where you want to stop doing that. I've become very communicative with my partner about how I'm experiencing desire, and I check a lot about what approach I can take on sexual intimacy that is going to be most easy / comfortable / rewarding for him. This goes both ways & it's not a guarantee that a relationship will work, but seems to be a big prerequisite.
     
  • you might need to lead all the time
    This is how it is for us. We realized my partner had no desires: therefor, initiating was unnatural and difficult for him, and he had very little interest in "what to do" when we "did it". And I don't want him to feel any pressure to feel desire/attraction – I want him to feel completely OK with being asexual and still being able to give me a sex life I'm happy with. So I focus on being 100% OK with being the one who works out the details on "how to ask", checking in, leading on what we do, requesting sex acts.
     
  • want/willing/won't
    Get one of the sex acts checklists, e.g. scarleteen's sexual inventory, find out what a partner is OK with. I'm using want/willing/won't instead of yes/maybe/no because it helps distinguish the asexual experience – which, by definition, may be almost zero "want". Plus I think standard sexual relationships conflate "willing (but not wanted)" with "won't" – and this is not a good idea with someone who is asexual. If you are the sexual initiator/leader you definitely need to know the "won't" list, and you might find there is some "willing" you didn't expect. (I did! This was an unexpected bonus for me.) It may help to be open to acts that aren't "traditional" sex, see if you can find them satisfying.
     
  • trial and error
    One last thought – we went through a lot of trial and error, working out what sex to have, how to have it, how to ask, when to ask, etc etc etc. Because everything is so non-intuitive, it would be weird if everything "just works". It doesn't always work, but when it does, it's almost certainly going to be a process.


Accepting my partner could never desire me was brutal, I don't want to make light of it. I called a suicide hotline for the first time in my life and I was in grieving. It took months to feel good about it. But the positive outcome in my case has been a better sex life than we ever had before – once I realized I had to be the director of such projects – plus I get to be any gender I want, he won't care (special bonus for me! sometimes I take a stereotypical teenage male attitude to sex "woo! I scored!"). I'm not sure if this is a stable equilibrium, I don't get to experience what it's like to have someone I love that is also attracted to me, but ... that's been feeling more and more OK. He vaguely thinks about me dating someone else (because he wants more for me) but I don't see any need to rush towards that.

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As an addendum,

 

31 minutes ago, bcb86 said:

I've talked to him about being asexual and he doesn't like the idea, because he seems to think that if he admits/accepts being asexual  we will be doomed. So he tries to act like he can push himself to be different, but it's clear to me that the fact he feels that way means he's asexual.

My partner hesitated for, I think, similar reasons.

I told him that I've heard a theory that it's plausible that an asexual partner could hypothetically be a better sex partner in an odd way – because their only motivation is non-selfish. Prostitutes can be great at sex, right? I hope these framings reassured him.

The more he felt OK with being asexual – that it wasn't going to wreck the relationship or render me permanently suffering – the more solidly he has identified with it.

I think you're right to worry about the long term. Your sex drive may increase in the future. You might fear that he decides sex is off the table completely someday. You might feel trapped and resentful. I think it's also worth talking to him about "what if X happens". (For me it's reassuring to know my partner is positive about me dating others.)

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