Living honest. Moving him out of my bed.

[anamikanon]

32 minutes ago, Lara Black said:

Sadly, it’s a very common situation in mixed relationships. It may be sort of a trick or might happen for whatever other reason, but many aces seem to downplay their orientation at the start of a relationship.

This isn't just at the start of the relationship!!! At that time, he was eager for sex, even if erratic. Initiated countless times, including when I didn't expect it at all.

 

He actually says this NOW. That he isn't sex repulsed and does enjoy sex when we do it (and that can't be faked, I've seen him). He says he enjoys touching me and doesn't mind giving me pleasure as often as I want it. Except.... he doesn't beyond a day or two after saying that. THAT is my anger. Tell me you never want sex, I'm cool with that. I tried going to a QPR earlier, he insisted that we should at least occasionally have sex because it matters to me. BUT HE DOES NOT DO IT beyond a day or two of saying it.

 

That is what has me furious. How about I take his declaration of being asexual seriously for all of two days after saying I do and then expect him to have regular sex? No, don't answer that, it is sarcasm. I just want him out of my bedroom. I'm fed up of this passive aggressive nonsense. You want sex, say yes and do it. You don't, say no, and I'm done. Don't keep stringing me along.

[anamikanon]

You have misunderstood the whole situation @NanoNaanoi

2 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

I understand that you crave touch, but you have to accept that we just aren't wired that way, for both your sanity and his. 

I have accepted it from the minute he said the word asexual. It clicked, seemed right and that was the last time I expected him to want sex.

 

Quote

Many of us try to accommodate sexual partners. We really do.

Well, mine "accommodates" me for all of a day or two after HIM saying he wants us to continue to have a sexual relationship and that he enjoys pleasuring me. For a sense of proportion, how about a sexual parter accepting you are ace for two days and then expecting you to have sex?

 

The pattern is, he'll string me along with nonsense about wanting to pleasure me and what not without actually doing it. When my nerves are shredded and I have a meltdown, he'll reiterate he wants to do it, and will do it once. Then back to telling me he wants to do it and never doing it. Till my next meltdown.

 

As for accommodating me, I offered him a total QPR with no sex whatsoever involved. He is the one who insists we should have a sexual relationship, because sex is part of how I love and he doesn't want me to stop loving him. So he wants me to desire him indefinitely AND unreciprocated. That's a bit much.

 

Quote

But it isn't fair to expect us to change our habits, just as it isn't fair to expect that you change yours.

He came to visit me from another city altogether. Committed to a relationship with me from the very first visit. Insisted over and over he wanted a sexual relationship, even when his erratic sexual habits made me dubious. He MOVED INTO my home after 3 years of this. And then the sex dried up. Dead. Finish. Over. Mission accomplished?

 

If I were expecting sex from him, I'd actually be expecting that he NOT change our habits, which included a LOT of sex till he moved in.

 

Quote

You want him to be more sensitive to your feelings, but are you truly sensitive to his?

I think I am. He says I am.

 

Quote

Consider this: he really is indifferent to sex, and has sex with you because you want it. Are you really happy with this? In most cases, no! Sexuals are not satisfied with an arrangement like this. Sexuals are frequently unhappy with this "false love" we try to give them because we aren't as into sexual intercourse as they want us to be. They don't "feel" wanted. They don't "feel" attractive enough. And it's painful for both people. The sexual isn't the only one hurt by this; the Ace tried their best to please their partner, but it just wasn't enough.

I'm happy if we never have sex. I'm happy if we occasionally have sex. I'm happy if he wants to pleasure me but not be touched himself (his usual preference). As long as he does what he says instead of keeping me guessing every night when he starts "foreplay" (his affectionate touch while cuddling is identical to his foreplay - and before you bring it up, he touches me when/where he wants, it is me touching him that he gets all touchy about) and I have to be equally prepared for sex to happen or not happen. I may be sexual, but I'm not a robot.

 

Quote

It's degrading. Our worth is placed on our ability to sleep with other people. We can love someone more than anything, without understanding the "significance" of physical intimacy, but it still won't be enough. It will never be enough.

If that were true in our home, my ace would be kicked out of my life long ago instead of me going through this crap and still trying to find a way to protect my nights but not cut him out of my life.

 

Quote

He has let you know where you stand.

Nope. He has let me know I stand in one place and then acted like I stand in another.

 

Quote

He cares enough about you to try and make this work. I have read many of your previous posts, and I never once got the feeling that he was doing this to make you suffer.

He isn't doing this to make me suffer. He is doing this because he can get away with doing it. And being caring interests him, so the talk is easy, but sex doesn't, so doing doesn't happen in full confidence that he is never going to be forced to live up to promises of sex - BECAUSE I don't make him have sex with me if he doesn't want it. He doesn't care enough what this does to me.

 

Quote

He likely doesn't ask you about your sexual frustration because he doesn't want to twist the knife and make you feel worse that you already do. But do you consider how he feels with his frustrations? He's willing to do things that are uncomfortable for him because he cares about you. That, to me, speaks more about sensitivity and love than any physical act.

There is a vast difference between saying, being willing and actually doing. And in that difference, there is someone hoping for closeness with you waiting endlessly, because you told them to expect it. Sorry. I've had enough.

 

Quote

If you are really this unhappy with your husband, then you need to end the relationship. It would give both of you the chance to find more fulfilling relationships.

I'm happy enough with him outside bed, therefore this choice. If this doesn't work, I'll end it. It will devastate him and I'd like to avoid hurting him because I do care about him, but I'm not going to sacrifice my life for charity if it doesn't work. Right now, I've reduced the part that doesn't work and am hoping what works continues.

 

[ryn2]

5 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Well, mine "accommodates" me for all of a day or two after HIM saying he wants us to continue to have a sexual relationship and that he enjoys pleasuring me.

Is (was) your arrangement that he would always initiate?  I’m sure you’ve mentioned it before but I’ve lost track.

 

I’m asking because wanting to continue a sexual relationship could mean initiating sex, or “just” not turning down sex someone else initiates.  Someone expecting the former would quickly get this sort of exasperated with a partner expecting the latter.

 

I know you have talked extensively with him and I’m sure you’ve already made it clear.  I’m just thinking reading the posts that his “not delivering on his promises” beyond the first couple of days sounds like him not continuing to initiate.

[anamikanon]

2 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Is (was) your arrangement that he would always initiate?  I’m sure you’ve mentioned it before but I’ve lost track.

Various versions of various conversations have ended in varied ways. TL;DR is that he has said he'll initiate more, he has said he'd like me to ask. But he doesn't initiate and if I ask, he's always sleepy.

[ryn2]

So what you’re essentially looking for him to admit is that he really never wants sex with you; he just wants to sustain the illusion that he *may* want sex with you because without that he fears the relationship is at greater risk?

[anamikanon]

9 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

So what you’re essentially looking for him to admit is that he really never wants sex with you; he just wants to sustain the illusion that he *may* want sex with you because without that he fears the relationship is at greater risk?

Frankly, at this point, I'm just looking for him to stay out of the way while I care for myself, because my nerves are shredded and I need to find my own sanity before I can care for him. I don't want sex, I don't want anything. Just stay out of my bedroom till I feel better.

 

He knows I'm not dumping him. That should be enough for now. He can "understand" me for a change.

[ryn2]

Gotcha.  Thanks for unconfusing me.

[anisotrophic]

I think some comments here were pretty unhelpful and I'll just ignore it...  (oh, on empathic aces, I don't know – it means communicating, and sometimes communicating can involve something dramatic, but not too dramatic, when the other person doesn't seem to be hearing you?)

 

Which is to say, it sounds like this is a reasonable move.

And gosh it sounds like the sex stuff is just part of it, there's other bedtime habit issues. And then things that weren't intended to be about sex but turned into it – touching a partner out of love and having them respond with a statement about not wanting to have sex – I could see that upsetting me! (I'm very clear about when I'm asking about sex and so I expect my partner to trust I'm not seeking it at other times.) It makes sense that all these different irritations start feeding on each other in a bad way.

A nice outcome, I think, would be to have not be a "communication breakdown" but instead be an opportunity for communication?

I mean, maybe it can become an opportunity to dig into things that weren't getting discussed -- maybe encourage that by checking in on how it's working for each other, maybe talk about why it was needed, maybe observe what's working and not working when you do get together. Your details might vary, but I do hope this turns into an opportunity...

 

With the sex, clearly stuff isn't working out. Sounds like he keeps thinking he can do a particular approach and he can't follow through. Maybe this move will make it feel like it's important to think about new approaches – I mean, I hope this all has a positive outcome, that it's all a signal to try re-examine – fingers crossed for you!

TLDR: I hope the lemons are ingredients for lemonade

[Telecaster68]

4 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

(oh, on empathic aces, I don't know – it means communicating, and sometimes communicating can involve something dramatic, but not too dramatic, when the other person doesn't seem to be hearing you?)

No, it just means both sides recognising the other has feelings too, and acting on it as though they matter to you. 

[NanoNaanoi]

2 hours ago, anamikanon said:

You have misunderstood the whole situation

 

 

On the contrary, I don't believe I have. I've read many of your posts on this site throughout the months, and you have described your situation well.  I really do sympathize with you. This is a difficult situation for both of you.

 

But your husband has given you many options. He is supportive of you being polyamorus, and while you are concerned about crossing lines, you aren't doing so. He understands the dynamics of your relationship. You keep saying you don't need sex, but you do. You need it to be happy, and you need it to feel complete. There isn't anything wrong with this need; it's human nature. Most people are not wired the way Aces are.

 

You said yourself that you don't desire your Ace. Do you desire him, or do you not? I'm getting mixed messages when I read your posts. You're understandably frustrated, but you keep trying to salvage something that isn't there. Your posts, despite what is being said in this thread, indicate that you are not okay with his sexuality. And there is no shame in that, OP. Many sexual partners are unhappy with their asexual partners, just as many asexuals are unhappy about their partner's need for sex.

[NanoNaanoi]

18 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

(oh, on empathic aces, I don't know – it means communicating, and sometimes communicating can involve something dramatic, but not too dramatic, when the other person doesn't seem to be hearing you?)

My apologies for my honesty. I suppose this is a thread for sexuals and family members of Aces. I simply thought it would help to have the opinion of an Ace who actually tries to compromise with sexual.

[anamikanon]

55 minutes ago, NanoNaanoi said:

But your husband has given you many options. He is supportive of you being polyamorus, and while you are concerned about crossing lines, you aren't doing so. He understands the dynamics of your relationship.

I understand you are ace and don't really "get" these things, but for me, sex isn't a commodity that I can simply buy from another shop because my regular shopkeeper is fine if I buy it anywhere. I am polyamorous, and if I find a suitable partner, I will  have a relationship. This is separate from the relationship between me and my husband. The idea that he can promise me sex that someone else will fulfill because he allows me to be poly is nonsense. If he makes a promise, he must fulfill it. That is the general idea.

 

55 minutes ago, NanoNaanoi said:

You keep saying you don't need sex, but you do. You need it to be happy, and you need it to feel complete. There isn't anything wrong with this need; it's human nature. Most people are not wired the way Aces are.

I appreciate you knowing me better than I know myself after over two decades of an active sex life. But I think you should stop now. I was happily single and not looking for ANY relationship when my ace pursued me. I thought he wasn't really interested in sex and said that to him and was fine stopping the sex and was repeatedly assured that he wanted a sexual relationship over a period of 3 years before I took him at his word - a few months before he declared himself asexual. I am poly but in the four years together, I haven't seriously seeked any relationship or, for that matter, been desperate to take up opportunities that walked my way.

 

My ace being fine with me being poly is older than my ace knowing he is ace. And I was single at that time with zero partners. That sound a lot like I say I don't need sex but I do?

 

Just because I'm sexual doesn't mean I want to indiscriminately get laid or I go insane or something.

 

55 minutes ago, NanoNaanoi said:

You said yourself that you don't desire your Ace. Do you desire him, or do you not? I'm getting mixed messages when I read your posts.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it, if you've been reading my posts over time, but here goes again. My ace was never too good at sex, but as we fell in love, it was a part of our relationship. I have never expected sex from him as "mandatory" even before knowing he was ace. He wanted it, because he wanted a "regular" relationship with me - presumably meaning 24/7 together, in my bedroom, etc.

 

All went well, sort of, though his sexuality was always erratic, till he moved into my home, at which point sex ground to a halt. He realized he was asexual. It made sense to me given what I have observed over the years, and I immediately stopped expecting sex from him, though I was definitely attracted to him, and we had a very active sex life till that point, though it was sporadic, given long distance romance.

 

I adapted to the idea of him being asexual and offered him a QPR = zero sex. He did not want that. He repeatedly insisted, as recently as last night, that he may be asexual, but he is not sex averse and enjoys having sex with me and pleasuring me, even if we don't have sex. I was wary about pressuring him, and as the sex tapered off, stopped desiring him. He did not like that. He wanted us to have a sexual relationship - stated words in conversation. But when it comes to offering sex, he never does. If I ask for it, he is usually too tired for it, or falls asleep with his fingers or penis inside me. This means that he has offered to stimulate me with his hands a sum total of three times in the last two months, on my request and fallen asleep with his fingers inside me all three times. All other nights, he has either not offered, or I have not asked or I have asked and he has refused and I've been fine with it.

 

I am done.

 

I don't expect him to have sex with me at all, but if he insists he wants a sexual relationship, then I'm not made of stone. I get aroused, I get disappointed, I get angry, which is how he is in the doghouse.

 

And oh, if he doesn't want a sexual relationship with a sexual, then he needs to stop cuddling like foreplay and be ok with the disappointment of not cuddling like foreplay when he doesn't intend sex.

 

Hope you understood.

 

55 minutes ago, NanoNaanoi said:

You're understandably frustrated, but you keep trying to salvage something that isn't there.

Right now, all I'm salvaging is my personal space in my bedroom. Everything else is up in the air.

 

55 minutes ago, NanoNaanoi said:

Your posts, despite what is being said in this thread, indicate that you are not okay with his sexuality. And there is no shame in that, OP. Many sexual partners are unhappy with their asexual partners, just as many asexuals are unhappy about their partner's need for sex.

I didn't know there was a special kind of sexuality that required you to lead people on and frustrate them. What is it called? Yeah, whatever it is called, I'm not ok with it. He can be asexual with his own body, not my arousal.

[anamikanon]

1 hour ago, NanoNaanoi said:

My apologies for my honesty. I suppose this is a thread for sexuals and family members of Aces. I simply thought it would help to have the opinion of an Ace who actually tries to compromise with sexual.

Don't assume all aces are like you. It is about as useful as assuming all sexuals are like your partner.

[anisotrophic]

45 minutes ago, NanoNaanoi said:

My apologies for my honesty. I suppose this is a thread for sexuals and family members of Aces. I simply thought it would help to have the opinion of an Ace who actually tries to compromise with sexual.

I like to think I compromise pretty successfully with my partner, and in that I've understood that what works for me might not work for others.

I don't know that @anamikanon is "not okay with" her partner's sexuality. It sure sounds like they want to work it out, but whatever has been tried is failing, at least as far as @anamikanon is concerned. And if it feels like her partner isn't taking it seriously enough, the bedroom thing seems like a fair move to make to communicate a need to re-assess commitments and expectations.

I had a lot of trial and error stuff where I was flipping out. Separating bedrooms can spell dysfunction in a couple, sure -- but it also seems like it could be part of a natural process of getting messages across regarding what matters and taking a new approach. Takes two to make it work, but this could just be part of that process. I wouldn't presume much about what direction it takes from here.

[anamikanon]

One thing I can honestly say is that I was too careful about not expecting sex. In hindsight, I should have expected sex when he cuddled like foreplay instead of simply telling him it arouses me but not pressuring him. He simply ignored my discomfort and did what he wanted, confident that it would not mean any sexual consequences for him, even if I was aroused and spent the night awake while he slept after he'd cuddled enough.

 

In hindsight, I should have responded to arousal by asking for sex or to be stimulated every time he did it. That would have made him take more responsibility for his own actions, even if he refused every time.

[anisotrophic]

Practically speaking, this sleep thing sounds like an issue??

Honestly not something we struggled with so I got nothing except "it sounds like something to talk about". 😕
 

2 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

telling him it arouses me but not pressuring him. He simply ignored my discomfort and did what he wanted, confident that it would not mean any sexual consequences for him

oh, that doesn't sound like fun either.   it's like he doesn't get that it's unpleasant and potentially upsetting to be aroused by a partner, and tell them about the arousal, and have the arousing thing continue ... and then not have sex. a mix of frustration and false signals or something

Hopefully an AVEN thread helps you work out bullet points to bring him...

[Guest]

3 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

My apologies for my honesty. I suppose this is a thread for sexuals and family members of Aces. I simply thought it would help to have the opinion of an Ace who actually tries to compromise with sexual.

I'm not ace but agree with everything you said. However I've been saying a lot of this stuff for ages now in response to what is clearly a lot of pain on the part of the OP, only to be hit with the OP claiming everything is okay and she's fine and she has a very healthy relationship etc. That's right after she's just written a very long post about just how badly she's suffering as a result of the relationship, and after yes her ace partner does seem to have gone to the effort he is capable of to make things easier for her. I think maybe sometimes people just want to vent and don't actually want the situation to truly change. If kicking him out of bed for now will work for the OP then great, but she needs to realize it's just a bandaid for a wound that probably isn't going anywhere (as she's been talking about how much said wound is hurting her for many months now). Which is very sad for both her and her partner, but, whatever gets them through I guess.

[anisotrophic]

 

5 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

But your husband has given you many options. He is supportive of you being polyamorus, and while you are concerned about crossing lines, you aren't doing so. He understands the dynamics of your relationship. You keep saying you don't need sex, but you do. You need it to be happy, and you need it to feel complete. There isn't anything wrong with this need; it's human nature. Most people are not wired the way Aces are.

So – like – wth. I found this a bit condescending. A lot of this stuff is tone here.

Sexual acts are not interchangeable widgets for me and many sexual folks. Sex with person B does not "solve" my relationship struggle with person A. It creates a new experience and adds another relationship to worry about. I need a lot of things to feel happy and complete in my relationship with another person. I don't need sex like it's a thing I get off a store shelf, I need it like I need smiles from someone. If my partner can't smile at me, it might cheer me up when someone else does.

I think it's reasonable for @anamikanon and her partner to think it's important/valuable to pursue sexual compromise with each other. Maybe it'll be some unhappy re-assessment of what each other can and can't do.
 

9 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

Consider this: he really is indifferent to sex, and has sex with you because you want it. Are you really happy with this? In most cases, no! Sexuals are not satisfied with an arrangement like this. Sexuals are frequently unhappy with this "false love" we try to give them because we aren't as into sexual intercourse as they want us to be. They don't "feel" wanted. They don't "feel" attractive enough. And it's painful for both people. The sexual isn't the only one hurt by this; the Ace tried their best to please their partner, but it just wasn't enough.

Yes there's some brutal acceptances that get made. (1) can a couple have charity sex? (2) is it going to make them happy?

Seems to me that one can't test if (2) works unless one actually gets (1) working. (Which can't always happen either.)

And yes I *am* satisfied with an arrangement like this. Please avoid broad statements about categories of people like you've got them all neatly binned.

And yes (2) does involve completely accepting all sex is, and will be, charity sex. Charity sex isn't unusual really? Usually the trick is one doesn't know when one is receiving it (ouch!). But maybe it's enough for some, to receive charity. (Tangentially I did realize it's a good idea to be thankful, standard technique if one wants to get repeat donations? Just throwing that out as an internal revelation I had at one point.)

[NanoNaanoi]

40 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

So – like – wth. I found this a bit condescending. A lot of this stuff is tone here.

Sexual acts are not interchangeable widgets for me and many sexual folks. Sex with person B does not "solve" my relationship struggle with person A. It creates a new experience and adds another relationship to worry about. I need a lot of things to feel happy and complete in my relationship with another person. I don't need sex like it's a thing I get off a store shelf, I need it like I need smiles from someone. If my partner can't smile at me, it might cheer me up when someone else does.

I wasn't trying to be condescending, but would have rather you called me out directly by name. Please don't refer to me anonymously in a passive-aggressive way -- call me out by name so I can understand that I was the one out of line.

 

On the topic of sexual acts not being interchangeable, I would have to say that it depends on the person. For you specifically, no, it will not solve the problem, but for her, it may. There are examples on these forums where the relationship can work with an open status. I personally have seen this in practice.

 

My point was that we don't understand that sexuals need it. We can try, but we just don't understand. People need to be upfront with us; most of us aren't going to realize there is a problem until someone goes into a breakdown.

 

Another one of my points was that she doesn't feel complete, and she won't feel complete for as long as she tries to focus on this man. It's like fitting the square peg into a circular hole: it will never work unless you painfully cut something off. I'm referring to more than what was said in this thread. I'm also taking into consideration her other posts.

 

49 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

Please avoid broad statements about categories of people like you've got them all neatly binned.

I really wasn't trying to put everyone into a group. Looking through my posts, I honestly have no idea where I even said something like this. I referenced sexuals and asexuals. I never said all, to my knowledge, and even tried to mention that it varies. I am not trying to be petty, but by this standard, the statement "sexual acts are not interchangable widgets for me and many sexual folks" would also be a broad generalization. There is no format for sexuality, and I understand this.

[NanoNaanoi]

5 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Don't assume all aces are like you. It is about as useful as assuming all sexuals are like your partner.

I really wasn't trying to assume or even insinuate that all aces are like me. I was genuinely trying to help you by showing you our point of view.

 

We (in which I mean most of us) don't understand sexual significance. He isn't doing this because he doesn't care, or because he's trying to be insensitive. He doesn't comprehend how a cuddle could arouse you. I don't understand this mindset, but I really am trying to sympathize with you and offer you advice. I legitimately do not understand, and will never understand, how a hug is supposed to lead to something more. I don't understand how this situation could make you so miserable, but I am honest-to-god trying to do so.

 

Furthermore, I actually don't have a partner, and I likely never will. All the resentment and feelings of inadequacy I see from both sides has permanently scared me off of dating. But, you know, I have been in love with a sexual in the past, so believe me when I say I can understand trying to compromise. I would have done anything for her, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Yes, I would have let her sleep with me, or do whatever she wanted with me, because I loved her that much. But when I told her that, it wasn't good enough. Everyone told me that it wasn't good enough, and that I couldn't possibly love her if I didn't "feel" anything for her. I wasn't good enough, and she let me know how disgusted she was with my inability to be sexually attracted to her. She actually told me that I would have been raping her if I did that, somehow, because the sex wouldn't have been what she originally thought, that I would have been "using her." I spent six years in love with my best friend, in a homophobic school, blaming myself for the abuse she endured from her boyfriend, trying to force myself to be a sexual person for her sake. I realize that maybe I could have saved her if I could have forced myself to enjoy the thought of sex for her sake, and that now she hates an entire gender because I wasn't brave enough to sweep her away from her horrible boyfriend. I'm not going to lie, some of your statements about your husband are disturbingly similar to the things that were said to me, and I wish I could make you see that you aren't going to be the only one hurt by this whole situation.

 

Anyway, I'm really not trying to be hateful. I'm trying to explain things from how most of us would see the situation. Maybe moving him to another room is a solution, but it's a temporary one, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

5 hours ago, anamikanon said:

My ace being fine with me being poly is older than my ace knowing he is ace. And I was single at that time with zero partners. That sound a lot like I say I don't need sex but I do?

 

Just because I'm sexual doesn't mean I want to indiscriminately get laid or I go insane or something.

I wasn't at all saying that you indiscriminately want to have sex. I saying that, based of your previous posts and your conflict about a close friend who is attracted to you, that you are clearly feeling unfulfilled with your arrangement. You're upset when your husband tries to hugs you because it arouses you, and you get frustrated for the rest of the night.

 

What happens when you tell him what this contact does to you? Have you had a lengthy conversation about how cuddling is no longer wanted?

[anisotrophic]

1 hour ago, NanoNaanoi said:

I really wasn't trying to put everyone into a group. Looking through my posts, I honestly have no idea where I even said something like this.

Well, you wrote...

 

12 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

Sexuals are not satisfied with an arrangement like this.

Which is why I responded:

 

2 hours ago, anisotropic said:

yes I *am* satisfied with an arrangement like this. Please avoid broad statements about categories of people like you've got them all neatly binned.

Do you see that exchange? You made an unqualified statement about "sexuals are not satisfied". And I am. So I read a statement like this and I find it pretty unacceptable.

 

Here are some other statements that did not have qualifiers and thus appear to speak for or about an entire category of people as having the experience you describe.

 

1 hour ago, NanoNaanoi said:

we don't understand that sexuals need it. We can try, but we just don't understand. People need to be upfront with us; most of us aren't going to realize there is a problem until someone goes into a breakdown.

Just because something isn't intuitive doesn't mean it's not understandable. My feeling is that my partner understands it. It helps to communicate (maybe more is needed in this case), but he became *much* more understanding when our dynamic was reframed as one of mixed orientations.

 

And part of what helped is to describe my desire as unchangeable – someone who is gay cannot just choose to turn off their homosexual desire. There have been (and sadly remain) times and places that homosexuality can get people killed. And yet it happens. He can see that desire must be a real and powerful thing, as demonstrated by the fact that people have suffered enormously for their orientations.

 

12 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

you crave touch, but you have to accept that we just aren't wired that way

My partner likes hugs. I've also read a lot of other asexual folks discuss wanting to be able to touch a partner without having it turn sexual. This statement really didn't make sense to me, and – again – it was written in an unqualified way, you speak with "we" – asexuals as a group, it seems.

 

12 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

But it isn't fair to expect us to change our habits, just as it isn't fair to expect that you change yours.

Most people think of their habits as things they can change – they're not orientations. I changed my habits, I changed how I communicated with my partner regarding my own sexual desire and requests for sexual intimacy. I think it's absolutely fair to expect that if someone expressed an intent to change, to actually do that – or acknowledge they can't.

 

12 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

Our worth is placed on our ability to sleep with other people.

12 hours ago, NanoNaanoi said:

We can love someone more than anything, without understanding the "significance" of physical intimacy, but it still won't be enough.

These are also a broad, unqualified statements. I'm sorry that you had these experiences, but they aren't universal truths about mixed relationships.

...

My ace partner says that this thread reminds him of a proverb, that "asshole isn't a point on the autism spectrum".  People use this proverb to point out that persisting in behavior that *someone else has told you* is hurting them isn't something that people with autism do, it's something that assholes do.  You don't need empathy to stop doing something hurtful upon request.  He suggests the new proverb "asshole isn't a point on the ace spectrum" to go with it. 

...

(... hah, he was so angry about this thread he just stole my keyboard to write the above paragraph 😂)

[anamikanon]

Anyway, what is done is done. He seems to have gone into one of his silences. We have barely met. I'm getting some time to think peacefully, but it is also a sad time. This is not what either of us wanted. I am hoping it gives us time to figure out our equation clearly and for the better. If we have to be together, then he has to be able to say what he wants to see in this relationship without trying to tell me what he imagines I want to hear, but he is not able to do. This is hard for him, because he almost always responds to differences/conflicts by saying (not doing) whatever the other person wants to hear. I am hoping that by not having anything immediate to "solve", he will have the time to figure out what HE wants. However easy or hard it is for me.

 

I can take a lack of sex. I can't take nightly guessing. Heck he can do his foreplay cuddling too, if I know clearly that sex is off the table.

 

Right now, anything can happen. He isn't good with intimacy. For all we know, he may decide that we are good being housemates and nothing further needs to be done. Particularly at the cost of having to have a discussion about it.

 

I guess we will know better once these initial days are done and we are more comfortable.

[Sally]

19 hours ago, Lara Black said:

Possibly, this would be a non-sex-averse ace who feels their partner’s needs and doesn’t mind satisfying them? Possibly, someone who even enjoys satisfying them because they sense how great they make their partner feel?

That was me for many, many years.  But I didn't enjoy it, and eventually, once I realized that there was a "something" known as asexuality and I realized that it fit me, and if I hadn't changed in 30+ years, I was not going to -- I couldn't do it anymore.  And now we are loving partners without sex.

 

I think that those who are both criticizing and sympathizing/empathizing with Anamikanon should step back and realize that she's made a change that she feels is best for her.  If her husband doesn't feel it's best for him, it's his responsibility to tell her.   Not ours.   Nor is it our responsibility to tell her she's done the wrong thing.     

[anamikanon]

We seem to have arrived at some "reset" kind of understanding.

 

We are sharing a home, we would like to have a relationship but nothing is assumed for now. We both care about each other a lot, but there is stuff both of us have to deal with.

 

On my end, I need to get a sense of equilibrium with my own life before I can share it with anyone. I need to have a sense of routine, of rest, of productivity. I need to STOP thinking of him as a sexual partner, regardless of what we have been in the past or what he says even now. Regardless of what the future brings, the CURRENT reality is a platonic household sharing relationship.

 

My ace never really had the time to enter this relationship knowing he was ace. He didn't mind sex, and actively wanted it, because he wanted me, and he knew I was sexual. This worked while we were LDR. He froze the minute he moved in. Since then, it has been about asserting his asexual identity, feeling bad about the situation I am in and promising me whatever he thought he could, regardless of his ability to actually deliver. More conversations lead me to believe that while he is really "sex-neutral" as he claims and he does enjoy sex, he has never really had the time to take stock and enter the relationship on terms he could handle. He discovered he was ace after moving in where he was supposed to be the partner of a sexual with whom he'd had a lot of sex with. Even being sex-neutral as he claimed, this has been stressful for him, and what is sex-neutral in normal circumstances apparently is a freeze under stress. So he can say all he likes, but he has never really been in a situation where he could take stock of what he wanted and state it as his side of the relationship - in his perception. He feels guilty about conning me into a sexual relationship and then withdrawing it, so he wants to offer, but he is not in a state of mind - no idea if he will ever be.

 

So this separate beds things is giving us both space to reset and build a relationship knowing our current realities and negotiating for what we want and feel able to offer in these new circumstances. Maybe it will remain limited to household sharing. Maybe it will be a QPR. Maybe once he's actually had the time to think things through, he'll want to be intimate with me again (he's been very eager in the past). Neither of us knows right now, but we are taking it a day at a time.

 

It is almost like dating again, where we can spend all day together if we want, but sleep in our own beds, unless specifically renegotiated.

 

I am feeling a bit more optimistic about this thing today.

[ryn2]

That sounds like a really valuable exercise and well worth doing, however it ultimately works out.  Glad to hear you are feeling a little better.

[anamikanon]

21 hours ago, FictoCannibal. said:

I'm not ace but agree with everything you said. However I've been saying a lot of this stuff for ages now in response to what is clearly a lot of pain on the part of the OP, only to be hit with the OP claiming everything is okay and she's fine and she has a very healthy relationship etc. That's right after she's just written a very long post about just how badly she's suffering as a result of the relationship, and after yes her ace partner does seem to have gone to the effort he is capable of to make things easier for her. I think maybe sometimes people just want to vent and don't actually want the situation to truly change. If kicking him out of bed for now will work for the OP then great, but she needs to realize it's just a bandaid for a wound that probably isn't going anywhere (as she's been talking about how much said wound is hurting her for many months now). Which is very sad for both her and her partner, but, whatever gets them through I guess.

He got the basic facts of the relationship wrong and you agree with everything he said and claim to be saying it for ages.

 

Assumptions and judgments are not helpful. I have been ignoring them for a while and will likely continue to do that after this detour, but I am honestly not able to understand the criticisms you bring up. I can't recognize them in what I do, I can't recognize them in our situation.

 

You seem to think that me being in pain means this is a bad situation or that I don't want it to change. My post archives here are witness to BOTH of us trying various things to make this work and updates on results. I have absolutely no idea how someone who does not appear to have tried a single new thing in the time I've read your posts reaches the assumption that I only want to vent and want nothing to change. It appears illogical from where I stand.

 

My ace and I both have our faults and limitations. A sexual-asexual mismatch is not the easiest thing to bridge. Success is not guaranteed. You didn't succeed yourself when there was a mismatch in spite of some very self-destructive trying that you continue to defend as necessary in that situation. I simply don't understand how you arrive at these conclusions and judgments in such a condescending manner. There is no such thing as a pain-free relationship. What is bearable, what reasons are bearable and what is not, is up to the individual's capacity to bear. Having a problem is not evidence of a situation being irreparable OR of the person having the problem not wanting improvement.

 

And with that, I am done for now. I will respond to what is useful and ignore what I can't recognize as applicable to my reality. Your judgments are not my headache. I got plenty of real challenges of my own than to chase mythical situations/solutions to meet your approval.

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

There is no such thing as a pain-free relationship. What is bearable, what reasons are bearable and what is not, is up to the individual's capacity to bear. Having a problem is not evidence of a situation being irreparable OR of the person having the problem not wanting improvement.

*nods*

 

Not just specific to this thread, I often see AVEN posters (of all orientations) writing as though there’s a universal acceptable limit on “tolerable relationship issues.”  In my experience everyone is different, situations are complex, and people are likely not posting full objective transcripts of their current life experiences.  I don’t personally feel comfortable telling people “this is unbearable; you should flee” (or “this is fine; you should stay,” for that matter), because how do I know, but it does seem like a good number of posters do.

[anisotrophic]

@anamikanon sounds like it might be some lemonade!

Congrats, I hope, it sounds like it could be a good thing in the end. And it feels to me like maybe the two of you got hit by a double whammy – asexuality plus living together – more than one major adjustment happening at once.

 

Trial & error & trying again is part of the process in the best of times IMHO, I hope I don't come off as *too* optimistic.

[uhtred]

Hating to be a wet blanket, but in my experience in mixed relationships, hope just leads to crushing disappointment. I'm much happier now that I have accepted that it will NEVER get better.  If she occasionally talks about sex, or suggests sex in the future, I go along, but I never expect it to actually happen.  If we have sex more frequently, I don't let myself believe this is a new normal.   

 

I don't talk about sex, or initiate sex anymore.   Not having any expectations changes repeated sharp pains into a sort of dull ache that is tolerable.  

 

 

[anamikanon]

I think there is one major misunderstanding here for @NanoNaanoiand @FictoCannibal.and that is that I expect my ace to offer sex to be happy. I don't. What I expect is for him to do as he says. If I offer him a QPR and he refuses, because he wants our relationship to be sexual, if he repeatedly asserts that he is capable of enjoying sex on occasion and does enjoy pleasuring me as "as often as you want", then I expect his actions to be congruent to that, because that is what he has led me to expect. Repeatedly.

 

It is THIS not happening that is causing distress and removing him from the bed is one way of removing all ambiguity on the issue and taking sex out of the picture so that there is no "misunderstanding" on either of our ends. If he does "foreplay cuddling", I KNOW it is only cuddling, because I KNOW sex is not on the cards - explicitly. Also, I KNOW that I will have the time and space to take care of any arousal later. I don't need sex like some kind of fertilizer regimen for my libido, but I do want sex when I am aroused or am assured that sex is very likely with this person I am attracted to and have had sex with in the past. THEN not getting it is frustrating, feels like I am being taken for granted, and so on.

 

This became necessary, because he genuinely seems unable to know when he arouses me. Also, regardless of what he says, it is abundantly clear that he is in no condition to deliver on the sexual front. Perhaps another time he may be, and we may resume sex, but it isn't going to be taken for granted as the nature of our relationship till that explicit time. Perhaps the sex will never happen and we will remain a QPR and once I am no longer aroused by his touch and learn to not interpret sex in it, we may still be able to share a bed without discomfort. But that time is not now. If that comfort is there and my nerves aren't raw, minor things won't grate - like what we talk about to bed, for example.

 

And oh, apart from this, which is pure torment for me, the relationship is still fantastic and has been for 4 years now. Therefore, it is worth going through some discomfort to try and salvage. Both of you claim to have read my posts but not got this, so I don't know what clarity it brings, but for what it is worth.