Living honest. Moving him out of my bed.

[anamikanon]

What seemed a great ability to talk doesn't seem all that fantastic anymore. I've exhausted my capacity to discuss this and all the great communication in the world can't change reality. I'm sexual. He's asexual who claims to be sex-indifferent and not averse, but doesn't particularly give much of a fuck about my desire for sex in practical life. Though he is very compassionate and understanding in conversation. In practical life, me being considerate of him is the same as being celibate. I am fed up of it.

 

We have a good relationship otherwise. However the sharing of a bedroom is increasingly become a stress factor for me. I dread bedtime now. He will be affectionate and understanding and conversational and cuddle AND never ever acknowledge that this is not my idea of bedtime. For that matter, wasn't his either while the relationship was new.

 

This complicates everything. I am asocial by nature and talking all the way right until we fall asleep is ..... too much talk for me. Particularly since that talk is ALWAYS about inconsequential stuff - what we did, some historical fact, philosophical musing, some irrelevant person on the internet.... it is just too much clutter for me. THIS is the crap I'm trying to leave behind and have a grounding, intimate time with myself or a partner when I wind down for the day and sleep. He seems unable to talk about anything personal in this time. Let alone having sex, no matter how indifferent he claims to be. To the point I'm wondering whether he's actually averse and finding "indifferent" more politically correct or something.

 

And then there is the insane wait till he falls asleep, I get up again, spend time on my laptop, perhaps masturbate or perhaps not and EXHAUST myself to sleep before returning to bed.

 

Not working. Asked him to move into his own room today. We have a "great" relationship and we will continue to have it. Nothing in the relationship is actually relevant to a bed, so he will leave my bedroom alone. We can have all the conversations he enjoys somewhere other than my bed instead of dragging the clutter of the world into my quiet time. We hug all the time and perhaps if he feels a need to cuddle in bed, I can visit him till he falls asleep. And I can sprawl in blessed oblivion in my own bed again without wondering about what to do with that person in it. Night after night.

 

This may seem like it is lacking compassion, but all this while, he's been the one to sleep in peace while I lie awake night after night. I don't think it is unfair to arrange things so that I can sleep at night and not feel awkward and dread bedtime. At least for a while. If this arrangement bothers him, we can review it after I've had at least some rest and get my sleep and health back.

 

This is not hate, I am not dumping him, but I need my pocket of sanity back.

[AwkwardGuy]

I sleep on the couch every night. This way, there is no ambiguity as far as expectations. If I want a conversation, I will get online and talk with someone or write emails until I get sleepy enough to sleep. If I need intimacy to help me relax, then I will take care of myself via one of my favorite daydreams. I know this sounds like a lonely existence, and it is, but for now it is how I survive the nights.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

This may seem like it is lacking compassion, but all this while, he's been the one to sleep in peace while I lie awake night after night. I don't think it is unfair to arrange things so that I can sleep at night and not feel awkward and dread bedtime. At least for a while. If this arrangement bothers him, we can review it after I've had at least some rest and get my sleep and health back.

This seems like quite an extreme situation to find yourself in with someone you're actively planning on marrying 😕 (or did you already get married?). Wouldn't you be better off as best friends (even friends who live together?) while you seek a romantic partnership that actually fulfills your needs, and maybe marry that person in the future instead of this one who seems to cause you so much stress and unhappiness? (I mean, to the extent you have to kick him out of bed and write a post like this here?). It just seems like the most extreme form of masochism to want to marry this guy despite knowing how utterly incompatible you are and how unhappy he makes you when it comes to something that is clearly vitally important to you :c

[Sally]

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

This may seem like it is lacking compassion

It doesn't sound that way to me.  And I'm an asexual.  You're just trying to get back some mental/emotional calm.  

[anamikanon]

6 minutes ago, FictoCannibal. said:

This seems like quite an extreme situation to find yourself in with someone you're actively planning on marrying 😕 (or did you already get married?). Wouldn't you be better off as best friends (even friends who live together?) while you seek a romantic partnership that actually fulfills your needs, and maybe marry that person in the future instead of this one who seems to cause you so much stress and unhappiness? (I mean, to the extent you have to kick him out of bed and write a post like this here?). It just seems like the most extreme form of masochism to want to marry this guy despite knowing how utterly incompatible you are and how unhappy he makes you when it comes to something that is clearly vitally important to you :c

We are living in, married, though not legally yet. We are both certain we want to be together long term. I am poly, so nothing is stopping me from committing to another partner as well if I actually find one (I've never really looked for partners). And frankly, I do just fine single. I don't need to replace him in that bed, I'm very happy occupying it all by myself. It is just the having him in bed and on a jarringly different frequency that gets on my nerves. The rest of the time we are very excellent with each other and make a superb home-sharing team. In fact, better than many sexual partners I've had. I married him after knowing he was ace. The marriage has little to do with our sexual compatibility and a lot to do with how the larger picture aligns. Other than the sex, the rest is pretty good.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

We are living in, married, though not legally yet. We are both certain we want to be together long term. I am poly, so nothing is stopping me from committing to another partner as well if I actually find one (I've never really looked for partners). And frankly, I do just fine single. I don't need to replace him in that bed, I'm very happy occupying it all by myself. It is just the having him in bed and on a jarringly different frequency that gets on my nerves. The rest of the time we are very excellent with each other and make a superb home-sharing team. In fact, better than many sexual partners I've had. I married him after knowing he was ace. The marriage has little to do with our sexual compatibility and a lot to do with how the larger picture aligns. Other than the sex, the rest is pretty good.

Just seems like you're incredibly unappy when it comes to something that's so vitally important to you is all, based on what you actually said in your OP (going by your words. I'm not saying it's merely implied, it's actually written there in plain English). I just can't see how your level of unhappiness is 'healthy' for anyone involved, but if it works for you, I'm not going to judge. I just think it's sad is all.

[Sally]

Saying something is "sad" and not healthy IS judging.  

[anamikanon]

34 minutes ago, AwkwardGuy said:

I sleep on the couch every night. This way, there is no ambiguity as far as expectations. If I want a conversation, I will get online and talk with someone or write emails until I get sleepy enough to sleep. If I need intimacy to help me relax, then I will take care of myself via one of my favorite daydreams. I know this sounds like a lonely existence, and it is, but for now it is how I survive the nights.

Frankly for me, being alone in my bedroom is not lonely at all. It is blessed solitude. No "surviving" to it. I thrive. I quite enjoy it when he's out of town for work, though I miss him in the day. I used to totally enjoy being close to him at night as well. But ever since he's discovered about asexuality, it appears to have become like he's some kind of a torch bearer for it. He has initiated sex in the past. Heck, he's pursued a relationship with me, fully knowing sex would be involved and totally wanting it. We've had long sex sessions he has enjoyed. He is capable of enjoying sex and I have seen him do it often enough to know it is true. But now that he has found an explanation for why he never particularly wanted sex for itself (as opposed to pursuing it as a part of a relationship with me) he seems to think he need not do it or something. I don't know. If he does now, he enjoys it now too.

 

Whatever the reason is, nights have become awkward as fuck with all the normal behavior now being super scrutinized. I am a toucher. I've always touched him. Now the slightest touch and I get a warning that he doesn't mind me touching him, but it doesn't really do anything for him. No idea who he is reminding, because I've also seen him aroused by touch, though that isn't my intention. Heck I rub my son's back without wanting sex. I just... touch to convey love. But if it doesn't do anything for you, why should I touch? I can run my hands on silk or other pleasurable surfaces that don't make a point of saying my touch doesn't matter.

 

Regardless, this is just too complicated for me. I don't want sex with him and I don't want to run this whole obstacle course just to be "normal". I'm not hoping for him to be aroused, but if regular cuddling comes with disclaimers in spite of me never having forced/guilted/seduced or plain conned him into sex, it is like throwing sex in my face in spite of me neither expecting nor wanting it. And it sort of makes a point of saying I know what you want and I am not averse to it, but I'm not going to engage.

 

So he knows I have a temper. So fuck out of my bedroom then.

[anamikanon]

14 minutes ago, FictoCannibal. said:

Just seems like you're incredibly unappy when it comes to something that's so vitally important to you is all, based on what you actually said in your OP (going by your words. I'm not saying it's merely implied, it's actually written there in plain English). I just can't see how your level of unhappiness is 'healthy' for anyone involved, but if it works for you, I'm not going to judge. I just think it's sad is all.

I am fine being alone in my bed. It is being with someone explicitly disinterested that's getting on my nerves. That is why I decided this.

 

Edit: One of the reasons we wanted to avoid this was that love and physical intimacy is/was(?) linked for me. He wanted to have a sexual relationship because of that and I know that I've lost interest in people I've moved on from sexually in the past. But then they haven't been a large part of my days after the sex ended, so this is different already and I'm at a point where if I fall out of love with him, so be it, but I can't take this constant tiptoeing in my own bed anymore. Hopefully, we'll continue with our plan to share our lives together indefinitely, but if that fails because of this, then such is life.

 

So far it is going ok. He isn't too happy about it, but he understands why I have to do it.

[ryn2]

I hope the two of you can find a more workable arrangement.  Not being able to sleep makes everything else less bearable, even if no one is intentionally “causing” it, and dreading going to bed sucks.

[Telecaster68]

@anamikanon 

 

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself this isn't going to lead you into a pretty dark place. 

 

If someone else had typed the words you did, would you consider their partner gave a flying fuck about their mental wellbeing?

[anamikanon]

45 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

@anamikanon 

 

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself this isn't going to lead you into a pretty dark place. 

 

If someone else had typed the words you did, would you consider their partner gave a flying fuck about their mental wellbeing?

This is essentially a home sharing arrangement as far as I am concerned now. He's a pretty good housemate. No messy habits, no loud crap. Tidy, helpful, companionable, supportive. Anything else he imagines this relationship to be is in his imagination now. As far as I am concerned, 80% of my day is spent in my bedroom (my geeky areas are in/attached to it). He's more like a neighbour than a partner once he's out of my bedroom. Exactly why he didn't want it. But then, while I have a lot of patience in my intimate relationships, once that line is crossed, it is crossed. As far as I am concerned, he's a good guy, but not very good at relationships. Not dumping him out of my life, so to say, but the relationship will not extend an inch beyond the point it is RECIPROCAL.

 

I don't expect him to care about my mental well being anymore. Just get out of the way while I care for myself.

[anamikanon]

It may sound contrary, when I say I care about him, we have a great relationship AND I am so irritated with him. He's not good at intimacy. He's great at companionship. We stick to that. We are great at parenting together, running the home together, spending downtime with each other and so on. However, my bedroom is NOT my socializing space. So unless he can be intimate, he doesn't belong there.

 

Hope that was clearer.

[anamikanon]

58 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

@anamikanon 

 

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself this isn't going to lead you into a pretty dark place. 

I am not at all trying to do that. As far as I am concerned, having a "partner" who doesn't belong in my bed is already a pretty dark place for me. I am also aware that this can lead to problems in our overall relationship or we may break up. No imaginary "it will be ok" here. If it works, great. If it doesn't even work in the limited edition, no matter how much potential it has to enrich our lives, it isn't worth it. I have never been the type to "need" a man in my life. I will definitely do better without than with if it is a negative impact. Like I am removing him from my intimate space because of negative impact after giving him abundant time to get his act in order.

 

This is already dark. Our "marriage" is merely an arrangement.

[Telecaster68]

Three angry posts in response? I think I must've touched a nerve (and I'm aware the anger isn't aimed at me).

 

It is clearer though now, and sounds like you're in the kind of place (literally and metaphorically) a lot of sexual partners end up in. Endless bending over backwards to accommodate - sadly not literally - with little or no reciprocation or empathy from the asexual partner. I've been there. It's shit and you're right to be angry.

 

Clearly not all asexuals are like this, and we won't see the partners of empathetic, reciprocating asexuals on here, but AVEN's frequent template that asexuals are selfless conflicted  souls until shown otherwise is also clearly bullshit.

[ryn2]

I have trouble getting my head around the change not because of the “relationship stuff” but because my own home... setup, I guess?... is apparently very different.  The only things I ever do in my bedroom (and this has been true ever since I moved out of my childhood home several decades ago) are sleep, have sex if that’s something that’s happening in my life at any given point, and change clothes.  Most days, unless I have to clean it, I leave the bedroom at 6 AM, stop back there for five minutes around 7 PM to change into workout clothes, and then return to it between 11 PM and midnight.

 

If I was behaving that way at bedtime - chattering endlessly about mundane stuff - it would mean I was nervous... but I don’t know enough about this particular partner to guess his reasons.

[ryn2]

14 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

empathetic, reciprocating asexuals

What would this look like in practice?

[Lara Black]

12 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

What would this look like in practice?

Possibly, this would be a non-sex-averse ace who feels their partner’s needs and doesn’t mind satisfying them? Possibly, someone who even enjoys satisfying them because they sense how great they make their partner feel?

[ryn2]

4 minutes ago, Lara Black said:

Possibly, this would be a non-sex-averse ace who feels their partner’s needs and doesn’t mind satisfying them? Possibly, someone who even enjoys satisfying them because they sense how great they make their partner feel?

That was my question... are those who talk about their non-empathetic partners euphemistically saying “if my partner really cared, she/he/they would offer to have sex with me,” or are they actually meaning what they’re saying at face value (“if my partner really cared, she/he/they would bring up in conversation how difficult this must be for me and how they wish things were different so I could be happier/more fulfilled”)?

[Telecaster68]

Either, depending on what they feel able to do. Just not taking the stance that their pain is so great they can be excused relationship maintenance.

[anamikanon]

1 hour ago, Lara Black said:

Possibly, this would be a non-sex-averse ace who feels their partner’s needs and doesn’t mind satisfying them? Possibly, someone who even enjoys satisfying them because they sense how great they make their partner feel?

For me at least, the ace doesn't have to satisfy me. But the utter lack of concern/awareness bugs me. It isn't just that there is no sex, it is that my whole evening/bedtime mood has turned into this one non-personal socializing thing sometimes. And I AM ASOCIAL. If I wanted endless chatter about anything under the sun and nothing intimate, I'd go to all the parties I get invited to.

 

For me at least, bedtime is a time of quiet, of reflection, of spending time together. Of intimacy, of caring, blah blah. An ace need not satisfy me sexually, but it would be damn nice to have *some* sensitivity. Particularly after said ace has repeatedly said that they enjoy pleasuring me. So why the heck not do it? Or make your self scarce on occasion so I do it? Or heck, at least ask about how things are going for me on the sexual frustration front, even if they do zero about it?

 

Sorry if I'm sounding judgmental. I'm just pissed at my ace and have met no other in any meaningful way. This is NOT a generalization.

 

[anamikanon]

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

That was my question... are those who talk about their non-empathetic partners euphemistically saying “if my partner really cared, she/he/they would offer to have sex with me,” or are they actually meaning what they’re saying at face value (“if my partner really cared, she/he/they would bring up in conversation how difficult this must be for me and how they wish things were different so I could be happier/more fulfilled”)?

I've been in situations where I wouldn't have sex with my partner unless coerced. And I got coerced and I call it marital rape. 

 

I absolutely don't expect offering sex to be the only form of caring. But in a difficult situation, it is easy to make grand claims and promises and deliver zero when it comes to practice. It basically amounts to toying with me. Promising me things, claiming to like them, never doing them and me always being unsettled. If he can't handle sex, say that. LET ME KNOW WHERE I STAND! That isn't too much to expect.

[ryn2]

4 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Sorry if I'm sounding judgmental. I'm just pissed at my ace and have met no other in any meaningful way. This is NOT a generalization.

I don’t think you sound judgmental.  Thanks for explaining!

[uhtred]

@anamikanon

My wife and I moved into separate rooms years ago.  Works *much* better.  Sleeping next to her is just too frustrating, and was generating deep resentment. She would want to hug and kiss (intimate kissing) before bed, and the go to sleep - leaving me lying there aroused.  She has never been able to understand why this is such a bad thing to to.   "why don't you want to kiss me?"

 

She, like some other asexuals has never had any understanding of how arousal works for sexual.  

 

So I have a separate room. I can take care of my needs if I feel like it, watch porn if I like (she doesn't know).  Meanwhile my "sister" sleeps in the next room.

 

I think you will be happier in a separate room.  It help to think of your partner as a loved family member rather than a romantic interest. 

[NanoNaanoi]

Howdy! This probably won't sit well with you, but this is something you need to hear.

 

While I may be an Asexual, I do understand that you are frustrated with the situation, and yes, it's justified. You feel unfulfilled in your relationship, and no, you don't deserve to feel that way. No one does.

 

But I am disheartened to read posts like this. I understand that you crave touch, but you have to accept that we just aren't wired that way, for both your sanity and his. Many of us try to accommodate sexual partners. We really do. But it isn't fair to expect us to change our habits, just as it isn't fair to expect that you change yours.

 

You're angry. I get that. You don't understand how your husband can be asexual. You may say that you husband "need not satisfy [you] sexually," but clearly you don't feel this way. You want him to be more sensitive to your feelings, but are you truly sensitive to his?

 

Consider this: he really is indifferent to sex, and has sex with you because you want it. Are you really happy with this? In most cases, no! Sexuals are not satisfied with an arrangement like this. Sexuals are frequently unhappy with this "false love" we try to give them because we aren't as into sexual intercourse as they want us to be. They don't "feel" wanted. They don't "feel" attractive enough. And it's painful for both people. The sexual isn't the only one hurt by this; the Ace tried their best to please their partner, but it just wasn't enough.

 

It's degrading. Our worth is placed on our ability to sleep with other people. We can love someone more than anything, without understanding the "significance" of physical intimacy, but it still won't be enough. It will never be enough.

 

He has let you know where you stand. He cares enough about you to try and make this work. I have read many of your previous posts, and I never once got the feeling that he was doing this to make you suffer. He likely doesn't ask you about your sexual frustration because he doesn't want to twist the knife and make you feel worse that you already do. But do you consider how he feels with his frustrations? He's willing to do things that are uncomfortable for him because he cares about you. That, to me, speaks more about sensitivity and love than any physical act.

 

If you are really this unhappy with your husband, then you need to end the relationship. It would give both of you the chance to find more fulfilling relationships.

[Telecaster68]

1 minute ago, NanoNaanoi said:

He's willing to do things that are uncomfortable for him because he cares about

That's the entire point. He isn't. Or even acknowledge the situation.

[AwkwardGuy]

6 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Regardless, this is just too complicated for me. I don't want sex with him and I don't want to run this whole obstacle course just to be "normal". I'm not hoping for him to be aroused, but if regular cuddling comes with disclaimers in spite of me never having forced/guilted/seduced or plain conned him into sex, it is like throwing sex in my face in spite of me neither expecting nor wanting it. And it sort of makes a point of saying I know what you want and I am not averse to it, but I'm not going to engage.

I was in a situation many years ago where a girlfriend of mine decided that she did not want sexual intimacy with me anymore, but yet still wanted me in bed with her at night when we were together. She would not give me a coherent explanation as to why intimacy was suddenly off the table, but became easily angered anytime the topic of sex came up, even if indirectly and not connected with us. For whatever reason, she always assumed that I was looking for an angle to get back to sex with her, even though I'm not even remotely that kind of person. I would never pressure anyone for something that they were not comfortable with.

 

Anyway, after several years of this, I felt very confused...painfully confused. Part of the confusion was the ambiguity of it. She would sometimes rub my back in bed or cuddle up to me. Sometimes her behavior felt close to getting intimate, but it never got to that point with her. It was like this for many years. I was left wondering what are we? We were like a couple in just about every way, but she didn't want any sexual intimacy with me...she seemed almost repulsed by the idea of being with me, even though she had a long history of being with many men and enjoying that. The contradictions pained me badly. I was left wondering why was she rejecting this aspect of me. It made me feel ugly. Finally, I could not deal with it anymore, and began sleeping on her couch at night...I just stopped coming to bed at night. Now, we are just platonic friends. Several years ago, she gave me official notice that we are not a couple anymore, but just close friends. Her explanation was that we just didn't work that way, even though she would not clarify this further for me.

 

I guess my point is that you are in a difficult position. You are a couple, but yet you do not engage in intimacy like a couple, and so anything, including a platonic kind of hug becomes a focus of confusion, maybe for both of you. You are both walking a foggy fine line between being platonic and intimate, and there is no definitive clarification to this, no matter how much it is discussed. It feels confusing, no matter how much you talk about it and no matter how much you agree upon the boundaries.  Emotions and physical reactions do not necessarily go along with rational decisions to be either this or that to each other.

 

Honestly, I think it was a good decision to not share a bed anymore. At the very least, this helps you avoid some confusion, especially of the emotional and physical kind.  

[NanoNaanoi]

9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

That's the entire point. He isn't. Or even acknowledge the situation. 

7 hours ago, anamikanon said:

But now that he has found an explanation for why he never particularly wanted sex for itself (as opposed to pursuing it as a part of a relationship with me) he seems to think he need not do it or something.

 

But if it doesn't do anything for you, why should I touch?

 

And my point is that she isn't bending either. "He seems to think he need not do it or something?" That right there indicates that she clearly holds resentment for his lack of sexual desire.

 

Again, if she's this unhappy, then she needs to find someone who can give a fulfilling relationship. Neither of them deserve this kind of emotional pain.

[Lucinda]

He indicated he did want a sexual relationship with her.

 

2 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Promising me things, claiming to like them, never doing them and me always being unsettled. If he can't handle sex, say that. LET ME KNOW WHERE I STAND! That isn't too much to expect.

Lucinda

[Lara Black]

5 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

He indicated he did want a sexual relationship with her.

 

Lucinda

Sadly, it’s a very common situation in mixed relationships. It may be sort of a trick or might happen for whatever other reason, but many aces seem to downplay their orientation at the start of a relationship.