Where do we start?

[DealingDealer]

New here, but very happy I found you all.  

First about me to get that outta the way, and sorry in advance for the randomness of this, as there is so much in my head right now and organizing it is hard in this format and I am just spewing up years of misunderstandings.  I am in my 40s now.  Been married 9 years, together for 14 years.  We have two beautiful kids together.  I do love the life we have built, and cannot see my life without it, but there was always something underneath it all.  No matter how hard I tried, no matter what we did, I have always felt something missing.  More recently I found this site.  And whoa, eye opening for me.  It started to put things in perspective for me.  I started reading through posts, and then more posts.  And as I read, I started to understand what my feelings were. So where to really start.  Firstly I want to thank all those out there for sharing their stories.  It’s hard to put yourself out there like that.  But it has had profound impact on my way of thinking and has made me think about a lot.  So here is my story in a nut shell.  Like many of you out there, our relationship started out as many do.  Dating, exploring, and enjoying all life has to offer together.  We bonded relatively quick.  But as time wore on, certain aspects of our relationship changed.  I too assumed it was due to living life.  Getting married, having kids, moving up the ladder at work.  Trying to balance life and our relationship.  Our sex life took a back seat to life.  I tried to spark it many times through the years with little to no success.  Never knew why.  We have had communication through the years.  Except for the sex topic, it had come up and we talked but kinda skirted the issue.   It in our first talk about intimacy and sex, that she said somethings that I couldn’t understand at the time.  She has said that she not interested in sex, and she couldn’t understand why I was so into that.  As much as we talked about the issue, nothing really came of it.  I did a lot of listening to her, and talked a little but held back a lot because I didn’t want to come across to her as just a sex obsessed typical man that was only into one thing.  I mean at the time not knowing anything about who we were, it became a tough life for me.  Once she opened up to me, I was confused for a long time.  All the thoughts and feels, what wrong with me, what’s wrong with her.  How can she possibly feel that way.  I know how I feel, doesn’t every one feel this way?  It lead to a lot of tension and friction in our life.  I tried to get through it.  I went and worked longer hours and worked harder.  I made relationships with my kids.  I tried really hard not to piss off my wife.  I stopped talking about sex, I stopped trying to have sex.  I tried hard cause it was what she wanted.  After a while the thoughts in my head were so loud that I didn’t know what to do to get rid of them.  I used porn and masterbation, it quelled the noise in my head for a little bit, but never fully satisfied me needs.  And my wife has never liked porn or me masterbating.  She just doesn’t get why I feel that need to do that.  She told me she thinks it’s dirty and makes her feel like I don’t want her.  (Well I do it cause we don’t) is what I wanted to say but didn’t to avoid the confrontation.  I just said okay, and tried to reduce that and even hide that fact I was still doing that.  Now I will say that we are intimate with each other.  We still hug and kiss, we still show affection towards one another.  This has just become a sexless marriage, not a loveless marriage.  In all other aspects of our relationship, we are connected fully and communicate great with each other.  We enjoy all the same things, and we support each other the best we can.  

But for years I have suffered.  And I had no idea why.  So I sat in silence.  Trying to figure out myself.

 I have read lots of people stories about this exact thing here.  I can relate to most here.  Finding this site has accelerated my thoughts.  But had also made me go back and ponder all the situations we have gone through regarding this specific thing.  It brought back other conversations and little comments here and there she’s said to me.  And I didn’t know how to handle them.  When they happened I reacted to her in all the wrong ways.  As I started to reflect after reading here, I also felt like a horrible monster to what I have put her through.  But finding this site and people willing enough to share openly.  It has changed my thought processes.  I can look at her in a different light.  I now know that we aren’t broken individually or as partners.  Seeing that there are people out there like us, and knowing we are not alone helps me tremendously.  I can copy and paste so many stories I have read and it would sound just like mine.  I wish I had found this site and all you years ago, to at least give my brain a break and put it at ease about the sex.  That one thing has caused so much friction in our lives because we didn’t understand each other.  Many of you understand this struggle.  And now as I continue to research and read and let my mind do the reflecting and thinking about what now, I am excited and scared to talk to her about all of this.  I know the conversation has to happen, but doesn’t make what may come of it any less scary.  And her not knowing what is coming terrifies me. 

I guess it all comes down to, how to really start this conversation?  How much is too much at one time?  And going into this conversation, I don’t know what I want as the end game, or what she really wants either.  But I do feel like I have to get all my feelings out there, but scared for her to listen and just shrug it off as me being a “typical” male who only wants sex and not continue talking .  For those of you who have talked about this, did you just start talking one day? Do you set it up in advance, or frame something before diving in?  

 

 

[anamikanon]

I would suggest scheduling a serious discussion. Send kids to stay over with friends/relatives/camp/whatever, take time out from work, reduce distractions that could interrupt the conversation as much as possible.

 

Then, when you have that space to talk, begin with stating what you want, what you understand as what she wants, etc. Explain to her that both of you are "normal" - whatever that is - just have very different needs about sex, but you are feeling ...... (insert how you feel).

 

Whether she is asexual or not is not as important as her not wanting sex with you - the immediate situation - for a long time. If she believes that your interest in sex is excessive based on her own lack of it, it may be helpful to find some sources to quote for how often couples have sex and the sheer variability of it - don't go seeking proof for "it is healthy to want daily" etc - simply establish that a wide range of desired frequencies is all normal. Neither of you are "right" or "wrong".

 

Aces often don't understand how important sex is to intimacy for sexuals and the feelings of being unloved or abandoned or that the partner simply doesn't care, etc that can haunt us. This will be necessary to explain, because she may not experience that at all or understand it. Give her a clear view of how things look on your end without blame or judgment on her. It is your situation, not her fault.

 

Then, shut up and listen when she explains her view. If you believe the discussion will be helped by her discovering about asexuality - as in, she seems to be describing a disinterest and lacking the vocabulary to explain her perspective, sure, mention the term to her, but don't obsess about it. The issue is you and her, not the labels.

 

Then between the two of you, try and find a way that you can address each other's needs enough that neither feels abandoned or violated. Seek professional assistance if possible. This will be a long journey to finding a balance - if at all it is possible.

 

Also remember:

• Have a clear plan in your mind what you want to see happening and what you are prepared to do/offer as well as what you absolutely need and are not willing to compromise.
• Have an idea of how you would proceed on your own, if she is disinterested in discussing the situation as well, This too is possible. Aces sometimes simply don't care about sex and think sexuals are exaggerating their suffering to manipulate them into having sex or just self-pity or entitlement or whatever. It may not be a grand plan - it may even be accepting the status quo if you fail to get her cooperation or it may be counselling or a divorce lawyer or whatever, but have an idea of how you will proceed even if she doesn't engage.
• Try not to read too much into initial statements. The beginning of such discoveries are usually a period of shock and turmoil. What you want, your views, what works and what doesn't.... everything will fluctuate for a while as you test ideas in your mind against actual life. Both of you may say things you don't mean or make extreme statements. The wounds caused by words can last much longer than the problems that triggered the words. Avoid saying things that cause extreme hurt and try to discount any she says knowing that this is a difficult time.

[Knytstar]

Dealing Dealer, your post sounds almost identical to mine in many ways. I'm not a man but I feel like you. My wife is ace and only told me a short while ago. We talked about it and a lot of my questions were answered and we figured a lot of things out. Now, after processing it all, I feel as though it's all I can think about. Now I seem to have more questions and I'm also trying to find a way to ask her without seeming like I'm obsessed with the new lifestyle we will be sharing. I think that the timing has to be perfect. I already know what I will ask, and I have already been through how I will feel for a variety of responses she may give me. I've already made up my mind that I am staying in our marriage. I just need to not have unanswered questions running through my head dominating my thoughts. Chances are that I will probably just blurt it out and take it from there. Think it all through and rehearse it in your head. Try not to overthink too much like I've done, that's simply exhausting! I guess I'm just trying to say be prepared, the right time will present itself. anamikanon, thank you for your advice and guidance. You are so helpful, I appreciate you!

 

[DealingDealer]

Thank you both.  Anamikanon, thanks for helping,m.  Gives me more to think.  Though I know not to be attacking and framing it properly.  And also agree with the labels not the important part.  And I have a lot of feels about this to get out.  The hardest part i feel is the clear plan.  I don’t want to go into this with what I want only. And agree that I have to be prepared for all possible outcomes.  That is something I am starting to come to terms with.  But as I have mentioned, there is no other issues that we have.  We have created the safe space, we are not afraid to talk about anything to do with our life except for this one issue.  And for so long I have wanted to express my feelings I have been going through.  But am glad I didn’t dive into those at the times I wanted to.  I am glad that I found you all here to start to understand and start to get my thoughts and feeling a together.  It helped put some of what I was feeling and questioning into a different perspective and give me a much better understanding of what I was actually feeling.  Starts to answer the why question at least for me.  As I have been thinking about this whole situation, I have really tried to be a better person for her.  Taking away any pressure/anxiety I may have imposed on her. And at times I forget we haven’t talked, and she says stuff that I am more sensitive to now.  She has her guard up still, though I have not done anything, I understand she doesn’t know that I am thinking differently.  So I see some anxiety from her and wish I could take that away from her, but without talking and getting out feels out there,  I cannot. But that being said, I have seen her change recently on our interactions, and I believe that is from her reading me and seeing that I am not depressed, or feeling alone as of right now.  And as for words causing damage, I know that all to well lol.  But thanks for getting my brain going in a direction and not so scattered.

 Knystar I totally agree about the timing.  I know if we schedule this, and both are ready to engage in discussions, I have no control over the external stresses either of us my have on that day that may make having the discusssion impossible to have because of where either of us would be on our heads.  She does get caught up in her head often, and mostly about things no one can change or has no impact on our lives, but yet she’s there.  And in one of those mindsets I believe that she wouldn’t be able to hear and listen to me honestly and clearly.  I also don’t want to be having a good day and then blind side her with this kind of conversation.  So that’s been on my mind, and of course I want her to know everything as soon as possible, so she can feel some sorta relief or at least a start of understanding.  So yeah, brain in overdrive thinking, almost obsessively overthinking lol.  I’ve had so many “talks” in my head already I think I may confuse myself when it does eventually come time to talk.  But from what I read, you have already talked once?  And yeah can see more questions coming up afterwards than what we had going into the discussion the first time.  And like you, I want to stay in this marriage.  Though we will see once we talk if that is still on the table, which I believe and hope it will be.  

Again thank you for helping.  

[Treesarepretty]

I think there is something else to think about, and that is her reaction to you wanting to talk. If you suggest that she join you on this sub-forum because it is a place for people in relationships with wildly varying levels of sexual desire and are trying to find ways to make it work, and she jumps to trying to get you to label her or she gets defensive, that MAY indicate that she just doesn't care about you as much as you think. It also seems common to advise the sexual half of a mixed relationship to do lots of listening, but a marriage with two people does, in fact, have TWO people in it. Not only should you listen to her during your discussion, but she should also listen to you. Hear what she says and try to explain it back to her using your own words so she can correct you in case you got something wrong, but at some point she also needs to listen to you. If, after you explain things from your perspective, she ignores it or discounts it or puts no effort into understanding you, then you are not dealing with someone who actually wants to solve anything. Be wary of possible red flags.

 

Also, it is fucked up that she makes you feel like you have to hide the fact that you need to climax every now and then. Even if you and her never have sex again---especially in that case--she needs to be okay with you "taking care of business" yourself, whether that means masturbation or pornography.

[Guest]

Is she upset by masturbation in general or by the use of porn ? Would she be willing to help you with that if you didnt look at other people, so she knew you wanted her but could still get your needs met and maybe feel connected sexually by her helping you masturbate ?

[anamikanon]

On 10/28/2018 at 10:21 PM, DealingDealer said:

I used porn and masterbation, it quelled the noise in my head for a little bit, but never fully satisfied me needs.

In my view, watching porn or not is a personal thing. Unless she wants to have sex with you and you can't, because you've already masturbated to porn or something, it isn't her business.

 

I am aware that my thinking is highly independent and not shared by many people.

 

On 10/28/2018 at 10:21 PM, DealingDealer said:

 And my wife has never liked porn or me masterbating.  She just doesn’t get why I feel that need to do that.  She told me she thinks it’s dirty and makes her feel like I don’t want her.  (Well I do it cause we don’t) is what I wanted to say but didn’t to avoid the confrontation.  I just said okay, and tried to reduce that and even hide that fact I was still doing that.

Like I said, I don't see it as her business. I also don't agree with the views that think she shouldn't object to it given that she won't offer sex. In my view, what she thinks is irrelevant. It is your personal thing. Even if she has sex with you regularly, it isn't her business if you masturbate to porn.

 

That said, while not honest, I think how you are handling it is fine. You could be "proper" and confront her on the subject, but it really isn't her business and you have bigger interpersonal issues to resolve than making her aware of what she doesn't know, just so she can object and so you can present your view and then you have another issue to agree on or have serious differences over.

[uhtred]

OP. 

We all have had different experiences, and those color our thoughts, but here are mine, based on over 30 years in a badly sexually mismatched marriage. 

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting frequent passionate sex.  There is nothing wrong with not wanting sex.   Sexual incompatibility is miserable for both of you.  Neither of you is likely to ever change.  Clearly the lower drive person always controls the amount of sex in a marriage (of course not counting rape). 

 

You can talk but I doubt very much anything will change for long.

 

You can stay.  I recommend moving to a separate bedroom - you can masturbate and watch porn.  I think that if someone denies their partner sex, they have no right to object to that partner using porn.   Think of her is a close sister,  friend, whatever works for you. 

 

You can leave.  You are still young enough to start a new life.  (some of us are not).

 

You can find sex elsewhere, with, or without permission.  I don't generally recommend this, but it works for some people. 

 

Just don't hope that it will get "better".  She is probably hoping the same thing in the opposite direction.