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Is love ever enough?


Mietsiekat

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Hi Everyone...
I'm not exactly sure why I am here today, for advice or just to get this off my chest. I have been an AVEN member for a few years, mostly just coming to read stories like mine.

But today is different. Today is out 6th wedding anniversary. And I have been so down and out these past 2 days that I have felt physically ill.

So the story starts almost 8 years ago when I met my husband. The most kind, good natured person. Everything for us was fairytale perfect up unto the day we got married. We had great sex, affection and a friendship most couples envied.(we actually waited a good few months before we had sex the first time)

So marriage happened and the sex and affection just tapered away. We had sex twice on our honeymoon of 15days which I attributed to the fact that we were in a different country and doing as much as we possibly could as far as sigtseeing etc.

Got back, moved in together and there was no sex for about 3 months. I came to with a bit of a shock and decided to talk to him about it. So we agreed that changing responsibilities was taking its toll, and we had to start making time for sex. He pointed out that I stopped initiating, I agreed offcourse, apologized and promised to try harder. I did and that is when he started rejecting my advances. At first it was okay, but with every passing rejection I was feeling more and more insecure to the point I completely stopped initiating. So that went on for a year or so where we had sex maybe once every two months.

A few months later his mom remarried, called him up and said there was some of his stuff he never took when he moved out and she was sending it over so he can decide what he wants to keep or throw out. So after a couple of months with the shit still in boxes I decided to start sorting and come upon a whole suitcase of letters, teddy bears and the like from his ex fiance nicely folded and packed. So obviously I freaked a bit, and after a month or so of letting me stew he decided to throw it out. The letters I wrote him on anniversaries and the like were crumpled underneath tools and dirty stuff in a box. So maybe I felt like her stuff mattered more, I dunno. Childish yes. This is the point I found AVEN, introduced the idea to him and he said he fell somewhere in the gray spectrum, he does enjoy sex when it happens, but rarely thinks about it. After looking for answers, feeling like crap and hearing every possible excuse, I now had I teensy idea what was going on.

He wanted kids from the start so 4years after getting married I finally caved and said we could try, however with sex happening not that often he should not get his hopes up. Being in our 30's and me having PCOS, it was unlikely to happen.
Surprise surprise, he jumped at each oppertunity for us to have sex, some weeks even 5 times, and I was starting to believe things were changing. We did struggle, but finally I fell pregnant with our miracle baby daughter. And guess what, sex just went back to how it was. We maybe had sex 4times during my pregnancy. As he constantly told me how weird sex was with me being pregnant.

Our daughter was born in March, perfectly healthy. No sex for 3months after her birth and then we went on holiday just so my world could come crashing down. Asked him if I could quickly use his phone for a google search as my phone battery was dead. Done searching, start closing browsers and then come upon heaps and heaps of browsers left open on porn sites. From pregnancy porn to just plain old anal.
Guys I want to clarify that I am not that wife who has a problem with porn , I would watch with him, but with everything going on like that for years, I was so hurt. Why was porn important and my feelings were not.

He finally admitted to watching porn from even before we met and how he would turn to porn everytime we had a fight about sex. He apparently never masturbated to porn or even got a hard on from it, and he only watched at work.
So I throw his stuff out when we get back home, but he begs me to forgive him. I cry, he cries, and he suggests he go to counselling. I beg for more affection and sex once every 2 weeks even is okay, he agrees to that. After a few sessions he admits his ex treated him like shit sexually for 8years and that he is doing to me what she did to him. Victim becomes abuser. He says he wants to change. He says he never saw his parents even holding hands, so he never knew affection was important. His ex didnt want it either, so that just kind told him its not. But nothing changes. Two weeks ago I call it quits, he again promises me things will change he wants to change. He says he cant lose his two girls. And still nothing has changed.
In 6 years there has only been I love you, a kiss and a hug before he leaves for work, and before we go to bed.

I am that affectionate person who always kissess, holds hands, says I love you 50 times a day, I compliment where its due. Tell him he looks handsome, love the new shirt etc, but I never get that in return. He never compliments me, I have not once heard I am a good mother, I look nice, he likes my new haircut apart from when family and friends are around. Then I am the best mother and wife. And as time went by I also stopped doing those things, because what is the use?

Why do I stay? Because as a husband there is no one better. Apart from sex and affection, he does everything for me. Nothing else I ask is ever too much. He is a wonderful father who plays with our now 6.5month old daughter every night, he changes her nappies, always comes home with something for her, gets up for her at night.

But why am I so empty on the inside, why do I feel alone, unloved, rejected? I feel ugly, my self-esteem has hit rock bottom, I feel like a useless and horrible wife and mother. I hate myself because I feel I am not good enough for him, and dont deserve to be that gorgeous little girls mother. Some days she cries because I cant always keep it together. I feel so guilty about my sadness making her sad.
We have such a good life, why am I so selfish to want more?

Im okay if sex happens twice a month, but when there is no one who wants to hold you, or kiss you its awfull.
I am such a broken person at this point.

He is still in counselling, 3 months porn sober.
Will I wake up at 60 and realize I am still as empty as the day I wrote this? Or just keep on hoping that the change will come...? I dont want to have sex with anyone else, I dont want to be kissed by someone else. I want only him.

I love him even more than the day we married, but is that enough...is love ever enough..

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I see love as neccessary, but not sufficient, for a healthy partnership.

 

Sometimes it is enough. Often, very often, it's not.

 

If you find out that in your case, too, it's not... that's not a sign of failure or weakness, it's just how it is. If you feel like you do right now... trust those feelings. If they tell you that there is something missing in your life that you need in order to feel happy and fulfilled - trust the feeling, it's valid. Don't blame yourself for it. If you need more than you have, and suffer from being without it... that's not selfish. It's human.

 

However... it's important to keep in mind that even though those feelings are true and valid, that does not mean that your partner owes you a change in order to address them. The responsibility remains yours. But there are options. There are always options. Perhaps not options you like... but they exist. You have a choice what to do about them... and even just by acknowledging that they exist, you might feel less helpless about the situation.

 

I've had a six-year relationship end where love ended up not being enough - even today, R. and I still love each other, but we've both had to accept that we could not and still cannot make it work as partners; we are better off as friends. It hurt like hell when it ended. I came close to not making it through the breakup and its aftermath alive because it just hurt so. Freaking. Much. But I did survive, and so did she, and today we are friends, and she's happily married to someone else (with whom I also get along on a good acquaintance level).

 

Wishing you the best. Perhaps I could at least give you a tiny glimmer of hope there... :cake:

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Guest DesertWells

No, love is not enough - the love must be reciprocated.

 

You are not being greedy, and it’s not your fault. For a sexual person, sex is the ultimate way to be intimate and vulnerable with the person you love. Being told you are loved, being complimented and physical contact are also important languages of love. It sounds to me like you both have different love languages, and that will always bring conflict to a relationship.

 

I would suggest reading about the 5 love languages, and try to work on ways you can both learn each other’s languages. Would he be willing to read about that with you? He can come to realise that this is a way of making you, his princess, happy. It’s not about his enjoyment, but he can learn to find pleasure in fulfilling your needs.

 

Don’t give up, you sound like a very loving person, and you appear to have the strength to make change. I wish my mum had your willpower, to take the action you have. If affection is what you need, then you may have to fight for it. You only have one life to receive the love you desire, don’t convince yourself you are not worth it. Be as gentle or as firm as you want, but understand that the moment you give any slack, is the moment things will get worse.

 

If your husband is unwilling to work with you (he doesn’t have to, and you can’t force him), then you must seriously consider what you need in order to be happy and fulfilled.

 

Your story is very similar to my Mum’s, so I offer one more observation: don’t put yourself in situations to be lied to, and always understand - what someone is saying to you is only true, if you know they’re not lying. If you don’t think that advice is relevant, just ignore it, but I think it is an important principle to live by.

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Guest Deus Ex Infinity
3 hours ago, DesertWells said:

No, love is not enough - the love must be reciprocated.

 

You are not being greedy, and it’s not your fault. For a sexual person, sex is the ultimate way to be intimate and vulnerable with the person you love. Being told you are loved, being complimented and physical contact are also important languages of love. It sounds to me like you both have different love languages, and that will always bring conflict to a relationship.

 

I would suggest reading about the 5 love languages, and try to work on ways you can both learn each other’s languages. Would he be willing to read about that with you? He can come to realise that this is a way of making you, his princess, happy. It’s not about his enjoyment, but he can learn to find pleasure in fulfilling your needs.

 

Don’t give up, you sound like a very loving person, and you appear to have the strength to make change. I wish my mum had your willpower, to take the action you have. If affection is what you need, then you may have to fight for it. You only have one life to receive the love you desire, don’t convince yourself you are not worth it. Be as gentle or as firm as you want, but understand that the moment you give any slack, is the moment things will get worse.

 

If your husband is unwilling to work with you (he doesn’t have to, and you can’t force him), then you must seriously consider what you need in order to be happy and fulfilled.

I totally agree with  @DesertWells and there's really nothing else to add or say for me at this point since it's all so nicely phrased and expressed. It's just excatly how I feel.

 

All the best for the two of you !!

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From everything you've disclosed, no, you don't have a good marriage.  You're miserable.  What you have together could probably be had with a very good  friend, and your husband could co-parent your daughter with you while  living separately.  

 

The porn stuff is secondary to the difference between you two: you don't feel good without sex, he doesn't want sex.  Some asexuals use porn, but  as asexuals, they don't want sex with other people.  

 

Your daughter is not even a year old.  Do you want to be in this specific marriage, with this specific misery, for another 20 years.  Please consider that, because it's not going to get any better.

 

I say this, by the way, not as a miserable sexual, but as an asexual.  

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I'm very sorry you are in this situation - it sounds miserable. 

 

His rejecting you for sex, but then watching porn is painful.  His having sex in order to have children but not out of love for you is painful.   These things go beyond someone who is asexual.  To me they are a sign of someone who does not love you.

 

Even if he was simply asexual, but deeply loved you, there might be not way you could be happy together due to the incompatibility. That would be no one's fault but still not solution. This sounds worse though. 

 

I'm sorry. 

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Hello @Mietsiekat

Sorry to hear that you’re feeling so down. From what you described, you have a good partnership, but it’s not a romantic partnership per se. At least, not mutually so. There are very different reasons for people to get married – it doesn’t always have to be romantic love. The problem is that your desires don’t match, and you keep waiting for him to change. You tried getting him to change – probably, you both tried the best you could, and he can’t change. Can you? Can you stop expecting romantic love and be happy with non-romantic-helping-each-other kind of love? If you can’t, then, sorry to say, it seems that your best choice is to break up because your dreams keep making you totally miserable. If you can, you won’t be as happy as in your dream touchy-kissy relationship, but you will be happier than you are now.

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He's not actually doing much to make you less miserable, from what you've said. Talk is cheap.

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Wandering Around
23 hours ago, Sally said:

Do you want to be in this specific marriage, with this specific misery, for another 20 years.  Please consider that, because it's not going to get any better

This! 

 

It doesn't get any better and all the miserable feelings you are having will just intensify. 

 

If nothing else, think about the fact that as your daughter gets older you want to be able to show her what a healthy happy relationship is really like and you can't do that the way you are now. 

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If a tree falls and no-one is around, does it make a sound? Well, the question is rather if it matters. 

 

Love in theory is not the same as love in real life, and at some point you need to see actions or signs of it, which fit the describtion.

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My heart goes out to you as you struggle with these tough decisions. Love is so wonderful, but a lasting and strong relationship needs more than that. You have demonstrated that with your efforts of commitment even when it's seemed impossible, but he needs to make an effort on his end for this to truly work. Maybe he already is. He's a good father to your daughter, he is 3 months clean, and he is willing to go to counseling for this to work. You said he's never really understood how to demonstrate affection- at least physically- but it seems like he is demonstrating it in other ways. Have you heard of "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman? It's a highly recommended book for couples that help you both identify how you most naturally demonstrate love to your partner. Maybe a single reflection on this might help you both understand each other's perspectives a little better. It has helped many of my close relatives fragile relationships strengthen and grow. I really hope that whatever happens for you, your spouse, and your beautiful daughter, you will realize that you are all strong and will overcome these trials.

 

Keeping you guys in my thoughts. 

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On 10/13/2018 at 2:31 PM, Mysticus Insanus said:

I see love as neccessary, but not sufficient, for a healthy partnership.

 

Agree with this. 

 

It's a needed component. But, compatibility is also needed. You can love someone to death, but if you aren't compatible, you won't work together. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't know if this helps, but I am in a relationship with an asexual. We have our ups and downs, but on the front of the sex actually working, it seems down and going further downhill if we ignore the weeks when I have complete breakdowns. And having a breakdown to get laid is not my style.

 

Neither of us wants to break up what we do have.

 

We are currently experimenting with matching the reality of our relationship with the reality of our relationship, so to say. He's moving to his own bedroom (he had one all through, but we never expected to use it) and will no longer be welcome by default in my bed. If I want to be there, I will ask him if he wants to come. If he wants to be there, he will ask me if he may come. We will be sharing our routines, companionship, everything else, but I find having my bed to myself takes a lot of misery out of being sex free. At least I don't have someone snoring there reminding me every night of what could be. 

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