[non-aces only] Do you feel like your body is part of your identity? (poll)

[Skycaptain]

@mreid, you say kinks come from childhood is a well known fact. I beg do differ. Could you please supply some peer - reviewed academic research to back this up?

Also define a perversion. This is a term which has extremely negative connotations, usually associated with criminal activity, and should not be bandied around freely when referring to activities which fall within the law 

[mreid]

2 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

@mreid, you say kinks come from childhood is a well known fact. I beg do differ. Could you please supply some peer - reviewed academic research to back this up?

Like... it's literally everywhere and it's something psychoanalysis and modern psychology agree on. This has been known even before psychoanalysis. I mean, what even? Where do you think stuff like calling a dom "daddy" comes from, or the adult breast feeding or diaper stuff?

I don't want to trigger anyone. If you google "childhood sexual perversion correlation" you find literally tons of stuff.

 

What is even the need for that question? Literally everyone knows this, I am not saying anything new here.

 

2 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

Also define a perversion.

I already have. It's something that goes against someone's natural inclinations. That is my definition.

[Skycaptain]

Talk about a load of claptrap which it's too much like hard work to back up with a fact 

 

Are you really saying that a sexual pervert is going against their inclination? 

 

Calling a dom daddy, or mummy has nothing whatsoever to do with rearing, that's down to what happens between the earholes of the people concerned. 

[mreid]

3 hours ago, Serran said:

How many diagnosed sociopaths have you lived with? 

Diagnosed? None. Undiagnosed? Several relatives. I don't want to get into details, but believe me when I say I know dysfunction.

 

3 hours ago, Serran said:

That is what happens when you can only trust someone based on rationality and logic.

No it's not. You are completely distorting what I said, or maybe you didn't understand. You know your brother is a sociopath who would back stab people if he could benefit from it, so you don't trust him.

 

3 hours ago, Serran said:

And it's all logic based, no emotional connection clouding his selfish logical analysis of what is best. Whereas, most people would not harm their sister to benefit themselves, because of the emotional bond they have with their family.

No, they wouldn't do it because it would be more beneficial for them to stay in good relations with their family. Even more so if they actually like their relatives for who they are, not for whatever stability or money they provide in the moment or simply fear of being alone.

 

3 hours ago, Serran said:

Because you are describing a connection which forms an emotional bond. You even use emotions in your description such as "scary". Most people don't pick the person they trust and want to spend their lives around based on a checklist of benefits. They pick a person who helps make them feel safe in the scary world. Benefits come and go and change over 50-70 years of life. What you want today may not be what you want 40 years from now. But, the emotional bond that forms keeps people together through hard times. 

But you don't just choose anyone. You choose someone you actually relate to because you are similar people, and since you are similar you have more reasons to stick together and like each other. I think. At least, this is how I see things.

 

To me finding someone who makes me feel safe is not emotional, it's rational. Someone makes me feel safe because I know who they are and I know that they will have my back.

 

Or do you choose someone you simply get along with and this bond is created by sharing experiences so that you bond over shared experiences and things, rather than the people you are and your world views? Which is not to say both aren't important, but I prioritize the latter.

 

3 hours ago, Serran said:

The people who nurture us in that vulnerability instead of hurting us are the ones we form attachments to (generally, some people form unhealthy attachments to people who hurt them).  

But we shouldn't for that kind of attachments. Vulnerability is not something that should be nurtured, it's something that should be overcome. Whoever nurtures something like that can't have your best interests at heart because it gives them an incentive to keep you vulnerable as your attachment for them is based on that vulnerability. I think not helping someone overcome their vulnerability is always a way of hurting the other person, regardless of how you put it.

 

3 hours ago, Serran said:

I thought my partner would stop if I said no. I thought my partner would respect my boundaries. However, I had no proof of these things. So, it was a guess. And I've been wrong in the past about people. So, the first time my partner and I were doing things, I wasn't sure but I thought it was OK. Getting nothing but love and respect from the interaction made me sure and enhanced my trust of them. Which strengthened our emotional bond. That's not fake. That's not unhealthy. That's allowing oneself to be vulnerable and having your trust proven well placed. Which, if you ask therapists, is a goal of a healthy relationship - not to avoid vulnerability, but to be comfortable being vulnerable with each other and trusting that you're still safe. One of the things relationship counselors do is trust exercises and getting people to open up and be vulnerable and show all those emotions they hide and take down the walls they protect themselves with, so they can be close to their partners. 

But why would your partner harm you? You imply that he could do it and that there is this uncertainty factor, why is that? Is it that you felt at the time you didn't know him well enough to know that? Why the need for these acts of faith and trust exercises? Why don't you feel you can know them well enough to know these things?

 

Why do I get the feeling that there is something here that is going over my head?

 

2 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

Are you really saying that a sexual pervert is going against their inclination? 

 

Calling a dom daddy, or mummy has nothing whatsoever to do with rearing, that's down to what happens between the earholes of the people concerned. 

Yes they are, because I have read plenty on perverts and that's always the case. Hell, I've even read books written by perverts. The particular ones I read described it as (TW, I don't take responsibility)

Spoiler

a way of losing their identity by doing the opposite of what they really want. You find this explained very clearly on Chuck Palahniuk's Invisible Monsters and many others of his books. There was even this book (fiction) I read by SuperVert where this mad doctor engineers new perversions and his alter-ego hides behind a white canvas that symbolized complete loss of identity. He also performed brain surgery that made people lose their sense of time so they would lose their identity (something like that) and feel free to engage in all sorts of perversions, because he argued that the goal of all perverts is to kill their identity. I'm just the messenger.

 

You are not seriously telling me that the particular choice of words has nothing to do with childhood stuff. I mean, come on.

 

And before anyone calls me a whatever-phobe, I do believe people's natural inclinations can be hetero, homo, asexual, and I believe non-binary and trans identities are real. No, I don't believe there is only male and female and heterosexual.

[Skycaptain]

I think we may have to agree to disagree here. 

To me a perversion is a deviation from societal norms which may result in ostracision or prosecution, such as paedophilia. 

Just consider that most people who enjoy sexual humiliation have never read De Sade yet enjoy BDSM, or the corollary, those like me who have studied their works yet have no wish to emulate them 

[Guest 80814]

-

[Guest DesertWells]

@mreid

Going back to the discussion of being different in my dreams, last night I played 3 different people:

(in this order)

1. me as a child
2. a female Caucasian astronaut
3. A male Indian astronaut - and one on my feet was twisted back to front.

It was interesting.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

1 hour ago, mreid said:

Why do I get the feeling that there is something here that is going over my head?

Because you insist everything must be rational and other people don't?

[mreid]

3 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

To me a perversion is a deviation from societal norms which may result in ostracision or prosecution, such as paedophilia. 

You are talking about social norms, I am talking about mental health. Social norms vary, what makes a person healthy or not doesn't. They either feel healthy or they don't. Society can see someone as a degenerate but that doesn't make them mentally ill, in the same way society can praise one's preferences but that doesn't mean they are healthy for that particular person.

 

3 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

Just consider that most people who enjoy sexual humiliation have never read De Sade yet enjoy BDSM, or the corollary, those like me who have studied their works yet have no wish to emulate them 

And what is your point?

 

2 hours ago, Anthraxite_Vampreza said:

Because you insist everything must be rational and other people don't?

No, I think it has to do with me being asexual.

 

2 hours ago, 80814 said:

 if you had a shit upbringing (which generally shapes a person for years) you may choose to identify as something/someone else and lose yourself in said identity, but that’s entirely seperate from sexuality or fetish

Gender identity is separate from sexuality? Really?

[Antihero.]

.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

3 minutes ago, mreid said:

No, I think it has to do with me being asexual.

I'm asexual, I can still accept that other people have different experiences to me that I can understand on an academic level.

[mreid]

2 hours ago, Antihero. said:

Might just be me though.

No, not just you. I assume the intention is to scare people away.

 

2 hours ago, Anthraxite_Vampreza said:

I'm asexual, I can still accept that other people have different experiences to me that I can understand on an academic level.

Ok.

 

----

 

I'd like to know who voted that they dream in 3rd person.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

@mreid Look I know we've had our disagreements but I don't hold grudges on online forums, and I am genuinely curious as to what is the sticking point. I've been snooping around this thread since it started and I can't even figure out what the arguments are about! So, is there any point continuing this cycle of misunderstanding or just plain disagreeing? Cos to me this thread has long since ceased to have any "academic" use, which I believe is your actual motive (I don't think you set out to upset people, it's more your tone that does it). If there's stuff you still wanna know what is it? What are you not understanding from others' answers? Do you want to get back to the original topic?

 

This goes for everyone btw, cos I can't make head nor tail of this thread!

 

*gets off soapbox, hides behind a mighty oak*

[mreid]

@Anthraxite_Vampreza My threads have a tendency to end up all over the place but I actually learn a lot from talking with people here. It's very interesting for me to see how I differ from the allos and that helps me in my researches too.

 

I'd very much like to go back to the main topic.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

4 minutes ago, mreid said:

@Anthraxite_Vampreza My threads have a tendency to end up all over the place but I actually learn a lot from talking with people here. It's very interesting for me to see how I differ from the allos and that helps me in my researches too.

 

I'd very much like to go back to the main topic.

Right, awesome. Well I'm not allo so I'll piss off back onto the balcony with binoculars. Maybe remind everyone what the actual topic was cos that's like 7 pages ago  

[Guest 80814]

-

[mreid]

@80814 Ok.

[uhtred]

20 hours ago, mreid said:

Also how do you know the reason they are embracing your vulnerability is not because they genuinely like you, but because they like the kind of blind faith you develop in them? Maybe it makes them feel flattered, which is why they do it. And one particularity of blind faith is that there is always that little voice that tells you that the other person might be using you because since it isn't rational it isn't something you can be sure of. So if the other person starts pulling away you get all these doubts and that's how people become "obsessed". Or you make all sorts of sacrifices because you need to convince yourself that there will be some reward. People do all sorts of things to avoid seeing the reality that they might have been just used. But ultimately that's always the goal of blind faith; it's to use people through a carrot and stick method.

 

And a lot of the stuff that is implied in this vulnerability talk is childhood stuff and personal issues. I believe someone who really cares about some will help the person sort those issues, not indulge them in them or coddle them because that keeps them dysfunction, and therefore they will always need them. There's this thing in psychoanalysis called transference-love where the patient starts seeing the doctor as a kind of father figure and falls in love with him. What good psychoanalysts do in those cases is explain the person where this transference love comes from, that it isn't really them they are in love with, and use it to get access to otherwise repressed material that helps heal the person. What shitty doctors do is convince the patient to start an affair with them, which screws up the treatment because it's the patients dysfunction that enabled the relationship to begin with.

 

It makes me wonder if this dynamic isn't the reason why some men prefer virgins and naive young women.

 

Yes, but I'd say it's much more about logic than faith. This faith element is that 1%. However, when you know someone well enough to know what drives them and whether if they might have any reasons or not to betray you then it's not even really faith, it's more of a risk-reward thing that is ultimately rational.

 

I completely disagree. I would trust a spouse not to steal my money because I knew that if they did it wouldn't be advantageous for them (depending on the situation), and same thing with me. I wouldn't want it to be otherwise.

 

What you describe isn't trust, it's faith. It's the kind of mutual dependence that creates distrust and mutual surveillance. This kind of dynamic kills honesty because since it's based on faith you can't really know for sure that the other person won't betray you, and this forces you to be nice to them and hold yourself back when you want to criticize them as they might perceive that as you pulling away from them.

 

To me trust is refusing to be put in or putting someone in that kind of situation to begin with. You situation is the equivalent of each of you having a gun pointed at each other and knowing the other won't pull the trigger because they don't want you to pull the trigger. My idea of trust is two people with guns who aren't even pointing them at each other to begin with because they have no rational reason to do so, and because it's much more productive for them to save the ammunition for mutual enemies.

 

The kind of dynamic you describe is a kind of deterrence. It doesn't imply trust to me. One false step, even if you aren't planning to do anything against the person, and the other person pushes the red button.

 

I think the reasons anyone prefers this kind of dynamic is the feeling of power they have over someone else. Either that or they simply know the other person isn't trustworthy, so they create this artificial kind of trust to replace real trust.

 

I think love is giving the other person freedom to be themselves and do what they want. If their beliefs align with yours then that shouldn't cause you harm.

 

 

 

We clearly have different definitions of "trust'.  By your definition I want and have faith in my wife, as she does in me.  That is what I want.  I want to be sure that if a situation ever develops where she *could* take advantage of me I could  trust (have faith) that she would not do so. 

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, mreid said:

Diagnosed? None. Undiagnosed? Several relatives. I don't want to get into details, but believe me when I say I know dysfunction.

 

There is a major difference in dysfunction and actually being a sociopath though. Lots of my family are dysfunctional as well. Some in very dangerous ways. But, it's different. Genuinely lacking emotional bonds is a very ... unpleasant type of person to be around for the majority of people. It's not they are mean, it's not they want to hurt you - they genuinely do not care either way. 

 

Quote

 

No it's not. You are completely distorting what I said, or maybe you didn't understand. You know your brother is a sociopath who would back stab people if he could benefit from it, so you don't trust him.

He would if he could benefit. Because, if it's logically nonsensical to not do it, you have more positives than negatives and absolutely no emotions holding you from doing so (no guilt, no loyalty, nothing but a purely analytical "What makes more sense for me?") then you do what has more positives than negatives. The lack of emotions is why they behave the way they do. 

 

Quote

 

No, they wouldn't do it because it would be more beneficial for them to stay in good relations with their family. Even more so if they actually like their relatives for who they are, not for whatever stability or money they provide in the moment or simply fear of being alone.

Liking someone for who they are is an emotional response. You can gain the majority of positives through human interaction without any close bonds, if you don't need the emotional "I like you" connection. My brother doesn't like people like that, except the very few he can form emotional bonds with. Everyone else is kind of "meh, whatever" because there is literally no attachment. And people are very interchangeable, if you look at it from a non-emotional standpoint. 

 

Quote

 

But you don't just choose anyone. You choose someone you actually relate to because you are similar people, and since you are similar you have more reasons to stick together and like each other. I think. At least, this is how I see things.

 

To me finding someone who makes me feel safe is not emotional, it's rational. Someone makes me feel safe because I know who they are and I know that they will have my back.

 

Or do you choose someone you simply get along with and this bond is created by sharing experiences so that you bond over shared experiences and things, rather than the people you are and your world views? Which is not to say both aren't important, but I prioritize the latter.

Well, yes, people get along with those who are more compatible with them (usually, sometimes opposites do attract). But, it's not a rational "Yep, I need this checklist" - it's a connection formed through mutual experience, getting to know someone, small interactions that develop trust - not gossiping on them, keeping secrets, not making them feel bad, helping out when you're going through rough times... just various times people are vulnerable and it isn't taken advantage of. 

 

Quote

 

But we shouldn't for that kind of attachments. Vulnerability is not something that should be nurtured, it's something that should be overcome. Whoever nurtures something like that can't have your best interests at heart because it gives them an incentive to keep you vulnerable as your attachment for them is based on that vulnerability. I think not helping someone overcome their vulnerability is always a way of hurting the other person, regardless of how you put it.

Did you even read the examples of being vulnerable I listed? Humans are vulnerable a lot. Just letting someone truly know you makes you vulnerable. We all have things we don't want co-workers, or the world to know. A lot of people don't like to share their innermost feelings with just anyone, they can only be that vulnerable with someone they trust. It's impossible to be close to someone and never be vulnerable with them. Life isn't about overcoming vulnerability and literally no therapist would ever tell you to do that. They coach you to embrace it, be open with it and form trusting bonds with people that way. Relationships are about being vulnerable and it being totally OK. Just like trust exercises are things like the cheesy fall backwards and trust your spouse will catch you... you make yourself vulnerable to being hurt (falling on the floor) and trusting the other person will be there to keep you up. Life is full of these opportunities and experiences that are like that. So many times a person can knock you down, but the fact they don't do it shows they care about your well being. 

 

Quote

 

But why would your partner harm you? You imply that he could do it and that there is this uncertainty factor, why is that? Is it that you felt at the time you didn't know him well enough to know that? Why the need for these acts of faith and trust exercises? Why don't you feel you can know them well enough to know these things?

 

Why do I get the feeling that there is something here that is going over my head?

 

Why would anyone harm anyone? I don't really know, because, personally... I never have that desire. As several of us have said - you can never know someone won't hurt you. You can guess. You can assume. You can hope. But, you aren't in their heads. You can't know. People who are out to hurt you aren't going to advertise it and be a jerk like a PUA in a lot of cases. They are going to act sweet and wonderful. But, they can be sweet and wonderful and just not understand boundaries and hurt you. They can be sweet and wonderful and not understand they can't push, because no one ever taught them that. They can seem sweet and wonderful and just be faking it, because they learned how to manipulate and charm and are really good at it. Until you see someone in a situation, you don't know how they will act. The best you can do is make an educated guess based on information they've given you. And that information can be false. 

 

TW: Abuse 

 

Read below if you want to know an example of life experience that has taught me that you never really know a person. 

 

 

 

 

My first spouse when we got together told me he was peaceful, vegetarian, spiritual. He ranted about people who took things sexually from women. He knew I was friends with my ex and he never said anything about it. He said he was so into and excited for me to move in with him and get back into school, I wouldn't be out long for the move, just a semester. He said he hadn't had many sexual partners, about the same as me if I kept up with one every few years like I had been, but he was older so the number was bigger but only by a few for the extra years. He built up this persona. And he did it through talking to me for hours and hours and hours on end. But, he was actually just really good at picking up what I liked out of our conversations. And he was patient. 


However, as people have tried to explain, human interaction involves ways people can get power over you. And the whole persona was just a power play, an act, not real. But, he even had friends to back up this persona, he was very good at what he does. Family, friends, job, etc all fit his persona.

 

So, I ended up moving in with him because he seemed great, from everything I had learned. But, you really can't rely on that. Now we shared bills and oh something happened to his car, so he needed to borrow mine to get to work... perfectly normal in most situations, but in this one, just another power play, but I didn't know it yet. And oh I owned the car, so that wasn't a good thing for his long-term plan, it was in my name. So of course something happened to my car (transmission blew, but he did it on purpose) so that we had to get a new car... and my credit wasn't good enough at the time, being a college student with little income, so now the car was in his name. Check and mate. Built up persona to seem a good match, built emotional connection, got me sharing a home, manipulated the only transportation (and I've never lived anywhere with public transportation) into his control. He now had the power. And he didn't have to act quite so much....

 

At that point, the switch flipped. My friendship with my ex? Now disrespecting him. My friends? The male ones had to be told to F off, in his mind. Slowly what he actually wanted came out one demand at a time. And the sweet, respectful way he treated me? Nope, that disappeared too. Now, I was yelled at, insulted, thrown around the room, had things like coke cans (full) thrown into my collar bone. I have probably permanent damage to my lower back from being pushed so hard to the floor. Requests for sex turned to demands. I was ordered to give oral once a week (along with PIV several times a week), at the least, or I would be thrown outside into the snow with nothing more than whatever I happened to be wearing. College? He didn't want me to go. Work? Only if I took a job at his place, so he could be in control. And his sexual partners? Really a number he didn't know, because he had so many casual ones he didn't keep track. Job and friends? He betrayed the friends and cut them off and left his job once he was done with needing them.

 

And, honestly, people like to say "Seek help, police will help you" - not really. Not unless you have serious easy to see marks. And, even then, there isn't a guarantee. And when someone changes so utterly and completely on you, it can throw you for an emotional loop. Disorientation and confusion are the main feelings. And that scary world? Gets even scarier... because your safe little bubble, with this person you knew so well and were so compatible with is now a monster you don't recognize. 

 

So, I lived under someone for years. Until I finally got away.

 
 

 

 

When I was young, sure, I thought I knew people so well I could just know they would never do this or that. But, life isn't really that simple. You can hope you know. But, that perfect dad with the great life who volunteers and does charity and seems so amazing? Could be secretly harming his kids. That wonderful person you spend so long building a life with? They could be playing a long con to get what they want. All you can do is have faith that they are as good as you think they are. 

 

So, sure, I knew my now wife for years. I knew her opinions on consent. She knew my boundaries, I knew hers. We had talked at length. But, I'm not naive enough anymore to think that meant I could know for 100% certainty she wouldn't hurt me. So, when I finally was in her bed naked and she checked in with me and treated me with nothing but complete respect, of course it was a relief of anxiety and a boost to trust... she upheld what she said, the way I saw her. It was like I hoped it would be. And every interaction after that has been the same. She's never given me a reason to doubt she cares for me, for my feelings, respects my boundaries. 

 

Would I want to go back to just knowing that someone won't hurt me? No. Because, thinking I could know anyone that well just from gathering data about them and getting to know them without experiencing these things with them is exactly what landed me in a horribly toxic and abusive relationship to begin with. Because, honestly, thinking I could know someone like that was one of my childish naive habits that went away with life experience. I don't know. I have faith in the people who are close to me, because we've shared experiences and they've matched our conversations and those two things together lead me to trust them... but I still don't know my wife won't ever hurt me. I believe she won't. I'm willing to bet my life, my safety, my money and my sanity on her not hurting me. But, I don't know it. She just proves it to me every day, in every small way, in every small conversation where she shows she's thinking about what is best for me, where she buys me something cause she knows I like it cause she cares, where she learns how I like sexual things and never tries anything new without checking in to be sure I'm OK with it. I don't need to obsess or question or check up on her. I can be secure in her spending the night with a friend without thinking it's cheating. But, even with all we've shared and the connection we have, I still don't know. It's faith and trust through our bond, shared values and shared experiences. If the bond erodes, the trust will erode with it... but part of a good relationship is just being thoughtful and strengthening that bond every day, rather than weakening it. It doesn't take conscious effort, if you're compatible. 

 

My wife has power over me, because I grant it. I love her, completely. She could hurt me in so many ways with the things I've told and shared with her. She could hurt me with the sexual intimacy we share. She could hurt me by just knowing me, so knowing my trauma and knowing my triggers and knowing what she could say that would cut the deepest. She knows my fears and my insecurities. But, she doesn't hurt me with any of that knowledge. When I'm afraid, she tries to comfort me. When I'm insecure, she reassures me. When I'm vulnerable and telling her my feelings, she does her best to be supportive. When we are together sexually, she checks in and makes sure everything is OK because it's a very vulnerable and raw thing to share and it's so easy to even accidentally hurt your partner, especially when they have a painful past with it. 

 

None of that is unhealthy power. None of that makes the trust or bond fake. It makes it very real and very powerful. And, it's comforting knowing you gave someone all the ammunition in the world on you, that someone knows your deepest secrets and could hurt you in some of the worst ways possible with what they know about you, but knowing they don't do it. Even when furious with you and not really wanting anything to do with you, they still care enough to take care of your feelings and keep you safe. 

 

And it's not blind faith - blind faith would be meeting a crush and just going "OH HE IS TOO PERFECT TO EVER HURT ME" without ever really getting to know them. But, imo, all trust is faith based trust, because there is never a guarantee no matter how many years you've known a person. 

 

Now... of course, you don't have to share that experience. But, that's my personal perspective on trust and the experiences that have formed that perspective. And, I have been in therapy, my therapist approves of my self-examination and trust perspectives. 

 

You can have a different perspective and different experiences. Each of us is shaped by our experiences and our lives. The more experience we get, the more our perspectives change. And no one perspective is the right one. We all have our own life experiences and feelings and things that are important to us. 

 

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, mreid said:

I'd like to know who voted that they dream in 3rd person.

 I dream in third person sometimes (watching a scene I'm not involved in), I could only choose one option though so chose a different one as I dream from 3 different perspectives.

 

6 hours ago, Anthraxite_Vampreza said:

 

This goes for everyone btw, cos I can't make head nor tail of this thread!

I gave all the explanation one could possibly need to understand what's happening in this thread here:

You even liked it!! My answer gives a superior overview, like you're a bird flying over and looking down on everything that's happening. *Shakes my head* I'm sad that you're still lost after reading my explanation :'c 

 

5 hours ago, mreid said:

I'd very much like to go back to the main topic.

A good way to do that might be to stop telling people they have pathological perversions just because they don't enjoy heteronormative baby-making sex Another good way to stay on topic is to not argue with people's personal experiences after you've specifically asked them to explain their experiences. Just a tip.. but I know you'll ignore it anyway lol.

[LeChat]

@Serran Wow. Thanks for sharing your story. It was nice to read that you have a happier relationship than the ones you've experienced in the past. I've read several abuse survivors admit that they felt they wouldn't be able to have a nice relationship or trust anyone in the future; so, your story might give others hope in seeing that it could be possible for them, too.

[mreid]

2 hours ago, FictoCannibal. said:

I dream from 3 different perspectives

How so? I read your other post and you mentioned you dreamt from 1st person (your POV), 3rd person, and other person's POV. Are these the three perspectives?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mreid said:

How so? I read your other post and you mentioned you dreamt from 1st person (your POV), 3rd person, and other person's POV. Are these the three perspectives?

Yep!

 

1)  I'm watching everything, like a scene playing out that I am not involved in (just like if you're watching a movie, but one that is happening all around you). Often these are deeply symbolic and reflective of collective human consciousness.

 

2) I'm myself, interacting in the dream in a sense that I can feel my own spatial awareness, feel pain from attacks, feel sexual stuff, and use weapons etc BUT I have no real sense of having an actual body beyond a feeling of spatial awareness. I don't 'look down' and see a body, if that makes sense.

 

3) Is where I'm watching the scene in third person, but can experience the feelings and emotions of the people/beings in the dream, and can also see what's happening from their perspective.(so it's two different perspectives happening at the same time)

 

Often I may have a mixture of all three of these in any one dream as it slowly plays out, swapping perspectives through different characters, watching the dream like a movie, and directly interacting in the dream myself.

 

4) Is of course lucid dreaming, where one 'wakes up' and becomes conscious within the dream realm. At this point, you'll find that the dream world is actually more 'real' and 'solid' than the reality you perceive in your day to day existence. This is one of the gateways to the Astral realms.

 

It's worth noting though that I began seriously practicing oneironautics from about age 12 (after I entered the other girls mind-space and dreamed her dream, which I talked about in the other thread). I halted my practice when I had children as I worry about bringing something back with me while they sleep (it does happen) and they may not be able to fight it off the way I can. When they have grown and left home I will re-take up my practice, at which time I will properly record my findings for publication as a guide/s for others who wish to consciously explore dream realms. Anyway due to the fact that I started this practice so early I may experience dreams a bit differently than most others do, I'm not sure.

[iff]

please be respectful of other member's points of view and not to call out specific members. thanks.

 

This is a general message.

 

iff,

moderator, sexual partners, friends & allies

[Guest DesertWells]

@FictoCannibal.

Oh wow you’ve described my dreams quite accurately, I didn’t quite know how to explain it, but you did it perfectly.

 

My dreams are primarily first person, me as a child, but my perspective briefly switches randomly to different people or to nobody at all (as if I’m just a fly on the wall), almost like I’m watching a movie.

 

I rarely have lucid dreams, but I do suffer frequently from Sleep Paralysis, which occasionally gives me a brief experience of lucid dreaming.

[mreid]

@FictoCannibal. @DesertWells i have some questions for you if you don't mind:

 

1) Do you feel like you control your body/s in your dreams and the environment, or do they kind of move on their own?

 

2) When you are in someone else's body do you feel like you really are that person, rather then just controlling their body?

 

3) Do you usually know you are dreaming? Sorry if I have asked this before, it's difficult to keep track.

 

14 hours ago, FictoCannibal. said:

I halted my practice when I had children as I worry about bringing something back with me while they sleep (it does happen) and they may not be able to fight it off the way I can.

What does that mean exactly, if you don't mind me asking?

[Guest DesertWells]

@mreid

1.

When I’m in 1st person perspective (either as me, or someone else), I usually feel like I’m in control.

When I’m in 3rd person ‘floating’ perspective it’s as though I’m just observing, unless I’m observing me (in which case I usually feel in control)

 

For example, the dream I had the other night, when I was the female astronaut, I watched her in 3rd person, then I had control of her in 1st person. Finally, it switched back to 3rd person, observing her as she found the Indian astronaut. I ‘slipped’ into his body (in 1st person), and he became me.

 

2.

Both. When I was the female astronaut in 1st person, I knew I was in her body, but when I was the Indian astronaut, his body and consciousness became mine.

[mreid]

2 hours ago, DesertWells said:

I ‘slipped’ into his body (in 1st person), and he became me.

Did she disappear when that happened, or could you see her through the indian astronaut's POV?

 

2 hours ago, DesertWells said:

Both. When I was the female astronaut in 1st person, I knew I was in her body, but when I was the Indian astronaut, his body and consciousness became mine.

But were you convinced you were "him", or did it feel more like you were an actor in his body acting like he would, but still you?

 

Also I edited to ask another question, could you take a look?

[Guest DesertWells]

58 minutes ago, mreid said:

Did she disappear when that happened, or could you see her through the indian astronaut's POV?

 

But were you convinced you were "him", or did it feel more like you were an actor in his body acting like he would, but still you?

 

Also I edited to ask another question, could you take a look?

No she didn’t disappear, I could see her from my new perspective.

 

That’s a tough one 🤔 I would say, an actor in his body, but still me.

 

No, I’m not usually aware it’s a dream, sometimes but not often.

[mreid]

@DesertWells I met a guy who told me he dreamt in a similar way, he said that when he changed to the other body it felt to him like "wearing a mask". Do you feel the same way?