mreid

[non-aces only] Do you feel like your body is part of your identity? (poll)

Do you see your body as part of your identity?   

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you feel that your physical body doesn't match how you see yourself psychologically and/or are you non-cis?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      11
  2. 2. You experience your dreams mostly...

    • In the 3rd person (but my body is the same as my waking one)
      2
    • In the 3rd person (but my body is different from my waking one/ partially different)
      0
    • In the 1st person (but my body is different/ partially different)
      1
    • In the 1st person (but I can't see my body/ don't know if it's different of not)
      10
    • In the 1st person (but my body is the same as my waking one)
      8
  3. 3. Your sexual fantasies are...

    • In the 1st person
      13
    • In the 3rd person and I participate in them
      2
    • In the 3rd person but I don't participate in them
      3
    • I don't have sexual fantasies / N/a
      3
  4. 4. Do you have low self-esteem / body image issues?

    • Yes
      4
    • Moderately so
      11
    • No/ very few
      6
  5. 5. Are you prone to dissociation and/ or depersonalization?

    • Yes to both
      6
    • Yes to dissociation
      3
    • Yes to depersonalization
      2
    • No to both
      10
  6. 6. Do you feel like you inhabit your body rather than see it as part of you? (from @Moon Spirit's thread, see OP)

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      15
  7. 7. Which of the following are accurate?

    • I self-harm
      7
    • My looks changed a lot over the years
      6
    • I was an ugly duckling
      4
    • Have trouble picturing myself/ parts of myself in my mind/ aphantasia-like symptoms
      2
    • None
      9
  8. 8. Do you have depression?

    • Yes
      13
    • No
      8
  9. 9. Do you feel like a part of who you are is being rejected if a partner doesn't feel attracted to your body?

    • Yes
      15
    • No
      6


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mreid

Hi, I come in peace.

 

Non-ace edition of this thread

 

to compare results.

 

@Moon Spirit ☽'s thread:

 

I eliminated some questions because I figured they wouldn't be relevant for sexuals and/or because I didn't see a correlation.

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Serran

Cant answer. I dont remember any dreams so no idea how I experience them. 

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CBC

Having trouble with number 6... I kinda wish there was a "neither" option.

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anisotropic

The last q feels weird. I expect people to be attracted to my scintillating personality.

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ryn2

 

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mreid
28 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

9. I feel sad if I’m not desired but it has nothing to do with a part of me being rejected.  I don’t feel like I’m a collection of parts.

You literally said on another thread you considered your body as part of who you are. So it follows that if someone rejected your body you'd feel like a part of you is being rejected.

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CBC

Here's the best I've got.

 

 

1. Do you feel that your physical body doesn't match how you see yourself psychologically and/or are you non-cis?

I'm cis, but my body doesn't feel much like how I see myself, no.

 

2. You experience your dreams mostly...

In the 1st person (but my body is the same as my waking one).

 

3. Your sexual fantasies are...

In the 1st person.

 

4. Do you have low self-esteem / body image issues?

Yes, very much so.

 

5. Are you prone to dissociation and/ or depersonalization?

Yes to both.

 

6. Do you feel like you inhabit your body rather than see it as part of you?

Somehow... neither. I would explain it if I could, but I can't find the right words. Closer to the first option if it's truly necessary to choose one, but still not really.

 

7. Which of the following are accurate?

-I self-harm (Occasionally.)

-My looks changed a lot over the years (Only weight-wise, otherwise no. As an adult I've weighed everything from 57 lbs/26 kg to about 140 lbs/64 kg. My body's ideal healthy weight seems to be around 95-100 lbs/43-45 kg. Otherwise my appearance has remained very much the same. My style of dress, hair, etc. have been more or less the same for several decades.)

 

8. Do you have depression?

Yes, from about the age of 11 (I'm 33). Also OCD all my life, anorexia/bulimia from age 14, and anxiety/panic issues (various ages depending on how it manifests). Some trauma stuff in recent years as well.

 

9. Do you feel like a part of who you are is being rejected if a partner doesn't feel attracted to your body?

Er... I'm not sure exactly? The thing is, I don't really think of sexual stuff in terms of attraction to bodies anyway, it's more attraction to who someone is as a person. I find someone sexually appealing when we have an emotional/intellectual connection and sort of expect the same to be true in return. If I love them, I tend to think they're the most beautiful human on the planet even if objectively they're not. I don't think much about either of our bodies just in themselves. That said, if a partner said "I love you but I really dislike your body", I would be... uncomfortable? Like I just can't imagine that situation.

 

-----

 

Body stuff is, sadly and annoyingly, often tied up with identity for me. But not in a way that relates to attractiveness or sexuality. Or at least not in the sense that I desire to be sexy/hot. Because of strong physical sensory issues and a lot of mental crap based largely in shame, I feel ok in my own skin only when I'm smaller than is ideally healthy. That's when I feel like "me".

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Gloomy

1. Yes. I'm cis but the way I see myself often isn't how I actually look like.

2. In first person, but I usually can't see or just don't notice my body.

3. In first person usually.

4. I have moderate self-esteem issues.

5. Yes to both.

6. No, I still see it as part of me.

7. My looks have change over the years, and I was an "ugly ducking" especially when I was 13.

8. I have diagnosed depression, but I'm medicated for it so it's more under control now.

9. I've never had a partner, but yes I suppose I would feel that part of me was rejected if my partner didn't find my body attractive.

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ryn2
6 hours ago, mreid said:

You literally said on another thread you considered your body as part of who you are. So it follows that if someone rejected your body you'd feel like a part of you is being rejected.

No, it doesn’t follow; like I actually said, I don’t view my mind and body as separate so if I’m not desired (regardless of why) I’m not desired.  I don’t feel like part of me is being rejected; I feel like I’m being rejected (if you want to word it that way... I’m not sure I would describe lack of desire as rejection).

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Baam

1. Do you feel that your physical body doesn't match how you see yourself psychologically and/or are you non-cis?

No, it pretty much matches up.

2. You experience your dreams mostly...

I think 1st person. My body doesn't really come into it at all, I don't recall a mirror ever appearing in a dream...

3. Your sexual fantasies are...

I put N/A... Because it switches between them all, I couldn't choose one.

4. Do you have low self-esteem / body image issues?

It's hard to explain, but not really. I put no. Definitely not body image issues, but I do have issues in other areas (my intellect mainly).

5. Are you prone to dissociation and/ or depersonalization?

I do sometimes dissociate.

6. Do you feel like you inhabit your body rather than see it as part of you? (from @Moon Spirit's thread, see OP)

No. It is me. I don't believe in souls or anything if that's what you're referring to..?

7. Which of the following are accurate?

I self-harm.

8. Do you have depression?

My primary diagnosis is borderline personality disorder but I do have episodes of depression, yes.

9. Do you feel like a part of who you are is being rejected if a partner doesn't feel attracted to your body?

No.

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ryn2

Some of the other posts make me think I should clarify one thing about dreams:  I assume it is my usual body, as the parts I can see (e.g., the front of me, parts on the back I can twist to see) look like they always do, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen my full reflection.

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MrDane

I dont know if it really is a depression, but it just feels like a dark cloud, that creeps in on me, and it has very much to do with not being desired nor being able to share “nirvana” with my beloved, who does not really get the fuzz about it. Like a vital part of my life has disappeared. Some people, who has suffered a loss in their lives, describes it as a ressonance in a sad tone, that tends to come back over and over again, or which is always present. when either happiness is present or when there is suddenly room to think about life. For me it often comes, when I could have either used a good hug but was dismissed or strangely enough during mowing the lawn. 

When I go to the gym, I think of nothing. It clears my head. 

 

 

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uhtred

For me some of the questions have multiple answers.  My dreams and fantasies take many forms.  Others have changed substantially over time.

 

I don't know if the poll was directed towards people questioning their gender identity.   I don't, I'm comfortable with my body, just wish it was about 30 years newer. 

 

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Telecaster68

I did answer the poll but I'd echo the comments about being rejected - my partner not being attracted to my body would be a rejection on the same fundamental level of not finding me funny. It's not something that's a discrete bit of the relationship that can be ignored. It's not so much rejecting me as rejecting a level of intimacy in the relationship.

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anisotropic

I still find the last question is imprecise. Is "attracted to your body" an attempt at circumlocution for "sexually attractive"?

Because (a) what about hugs & physical affection and (b) "body" is commonly used in sexual dialogue as objectification (i.e. the person is reduced to being an object) & many people aren't comfortable with that as the defining feature of sexual attraction.

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Philip027

I would interpret the last question as, if they don't find you (physically) hot, would that bother you?

 

I didn't think it was that difficult to understand, myself...

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Telecaster68

Going by previous lines of questions from mreid, it's about whether sexuals feel rejected as people because of sexual rejection, and whether this is because we don't see a dualist's distinction between mind and body.

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ryn2
9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Going by previous lines of questions from mreid, it's about whether sexuals feel rejected as people because of sexual rejection, and whether this is because we don't see a dualist's distinction between mind and body.

I’d be surprised if there is a correlation (or causation) between dualism and orientation, at least if I think back to college, but it’ll be interesting to see.

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Telecaster68

I suspect a subtext to do with sexuals being soulless animals, but we'll see.

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mreid
12 hours ago, ryn2 said:

No, it doesn’t follow; like I actually said, I don’t view my mind and body as separate so if I’m not desired (regardless of why) I’m not desired.  I don’t feel like part of me is being rejected; I feel like I’m being rejected (if you want to word it that way... I’m not sure I would describe lack of desire as rejection).

 

quoting you:

Quote

As someone who isn’t a dualist all I can really say here is that to me my body is myself.  It’s how I experience the world and it’s what - through its physiology - gives rise to the consciousness and thought processes that makes me “me.”

Quote

 All the things that comprise my body are part of me.

 

You say your body is you. Then you say that it is your body that gives rise to your consciousness, which you also define as you. But then you say either are you. But then you say you are not a dualist, because you believe everything is biology and bodily processes. But then your consciousness is part of you. But your consciousness is also a part of your body because it comes from your body, but because it comes from your body it is part of your body and not something separate from your body. Your consciousness is a bodily process therefore it is part of your body, like sweat. But your body doesn't define you, neither does your consciousness, but the two of them together define you because your consciousness comes from your body but is also part of your body  and not separate from it therefore it is also your body and together they are all you.

But when someone is only attracted to your body you don't feel offended because you feel you are being loved for you, even if they don't care much for your consciousness which is also you but not part of you, but if someone loves your body and not your consciousness they still love you because your body is your consciousness which is your body and not separate from it. Therefore if someone loves your body they also love your consciousness even though your consciousness comes from your body but is not part of your body, it is your body.

 

Maybe your consciousness is like Russell's paradox? It states:

Quote

For example, if we let φ(x) stand for xx and let R = {x: ~φ(x)}, then R is the set whose members are exactly those objects that are not members of themselves.

Your body is the set φ(x) whose members are x and all that comprises your body is x and xx (which means that x is a member of x which is the same thing as saying something is itself and belongs to itselfso φ(x) is the set of all things that are themselves but then R is the set which contains all x which are not members of themselves like your consciousness, because your consciousness is like x and your consciousness is a member of itself therefore x = x and φ(x) is your body, but R is also your body because that's the only way what you say is true (that your consciousness is part of your body but it is your body and not part of your body because it comes from your body but it is your body at the same time), so R is your consciousnes in the sense that it's members are not members of themselves, like your consciousness is your body and your body is your consciousness but your consciousness is not contained within your body because it is not a member (part) of it, like x in φ(x) is not contained in R(x), so φ(x) is your body and R(x) is your consciousness. R(x) is the set of all elements that are not members of φ(x) but all members of φ(x) are x and all members of R(x) are also x, which means that that which is part of φ(x) is not part of R(x) but everything that is part of x is x and everything that is part of φ(x) is x like everything that is part of R(x) is also x but x is not part of itself, therefore it can't be part of something whose only members are x such that x is itself, because x isn't itself or part of itself, like your consciousness is a member of your body but is also your body but it isn't a member of your body at the same time.

 

I think I finally understand what you mean @ryn2, thanks for the clarification. Everything makes sense to me now. No need for further explanation, I finally get it.

 

1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

I would interpret the last question as, if they don't find you (physically) hot, would that bother you?

 

I didn't think it was that difficult to understand, myself...

The 50 aces who answered the ace poll didn't think so either...

 

7 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Some of the other posts make me think I should clarify one thing about dreams:  I assume it is my usual body, as the parts I can see (e.g., the front of me, parts on the back I can twist to see) look like they always do, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen my full reflection.

Could it be that your body in your dreams is like Schrödinger cat? Since you can't see it it is in two states, which in this case means it isn't you but it is you at the same time, therefore do you think I should include the option "I am myself in my dreams but at the same time I am not because I can't see myself, therefore I am not me but I am me at the same time."

 

Does this make sense? I have seen a few more sexuals experiencing this. Could there be such a thing as Schrodinger's dream? Could it also be in the 3rd person and the 1st person at the same time?

 

51 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I’d be surprised if there is a correlation (or causation) between dualism and orientation, at least if I think back to college, but it’ll be interesting to see.

No I am pretty sure it all boils down to Russel's paradox of consciousness and Schrödinger's dreams. According to Russel's paradox of consciousness as defined by me earlier in this post dualism doesn't exist because the body and the mind are the same thing. But then they aren't because consciousness comes from the body, but it isn't the body, kind of like Jesus comes from God and is God but God and Jesus are not the same thing, and something about the Holy Ghost too but I can't remember exactly because I learnt this in Sunday school when I was a kid and I haven't been to church in nearly a decade.

 

Maybe I should ask instead about religious belief? I wonder if there is a correlation between one's capacity for logic and their sexual orientation.

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ryn2

All I mean is that - like I don’t consider the arm separate from the body or the spleen separate from the body - I don’t consider the mind separate from the body.  I hope you enjoyed trying to grossly overcomplicate it, though.

 

The simplest comparison is the one you made in a question elsewhere about feeling like you inhabit your body versus feeling like you are your body.

 

I didn’t actually say any of, or anything like, the part you wrote about being loved for [enter option here] so I’ll just leave that be.  Perhaps whoever did say it wants to explain.

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mreid
3 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

All I mean is that - like I don’t consider the arm separate from the body or the spleen separate from the body - I don’t consider the mind separate from the body.

But you do consider the arm and the spleen body parts, don't you?

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Telecaster68
20 minutes ago, mreid said:

The 50 aces who answered the ace poll didn't think so either...

Because aces don't have any sense that bodies are anything to do with attraction, so there's no complicated intertwining of the two things for them.

 

21 minutes ago, mreid said:

I wonder if there is a correlation between one's capacity for logic and their sexual orientation.

WT actual F.

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ryn2
2 minutes ago, mreid said:

But you do consider the arm and the spleen body parts, don't you?

Not in the sense that you seem to be saying the mind is.  They’re collections of cells that perform one or more functions.  Same goes for the brain.  As the brain performs its functions, it gives rise to consciousness.

 

I don’t see the mind as a separate part, or as the whole of the body, or as its own thing.  It’s how we experience the workings of the brain.

 

Obviously people who favor mind/body dualism view it differently.  Like religion, though, philosophy isn’t something science can prove or disprove.

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mreid
10 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

They’re collections of cells that perform one or more functions.  Same goes for the brain.

A member of X is something that is contained within X. If X is the body, then the arm and the spleen are members of the body, because they are contained within what you consider a body. Consciousness, by that logic, is also a member of the set known as body.

 

But to you now a member of the body has to be necessarily an organ, a collection of cells that performs functions. So consciousness is a body function. Like digestion. But it is still a part of everything you consider a body, because a body isn't only organs and cells. But if you believe a body is only comprised of it's organs and cells, and consciousness is not an organ nor made of cells, does that mean you believe consciousness is separated from the body? Are you a dualist then?

 

And if to you consciousness is separated for the body, but it is your consciousness + your body (as in, your organs and cells) that defines you, if someone rejected your organs and cells that would make you feel like you are being rejected, because everything together is you, but then your consciousness is separated from your organs and cells which is what you define your body as, so if they are separated then they are both parts of you, because they aren't the same thing because consciousness isn't an organ nor made of cells, so consciousness isn't a part of you, so are you only your body?

 

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anisotropic
1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

I would interpret the last question as, if they don't find you (physically) hot, would that bother you?

 

I didn't think it was that difficult to understand, myself...

Thanks. Since @mreid agreed, I went with that interpretation & did the poll.

Given how wonky these conversations have sometimes been 😵 ... it was honestly hard for me to tell if it was limited to inquiring about a facet of sexual attraction. :)

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anisotropic

And on mind/body, I'm not a dualist but I do like to imagine the potential for a transhumanist escape! 🚀

but for now, I guess I must admit my mind is in my body, a truth viscerally brought home the times my health falters.

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ryn2
20 minutes ago, mreid said:

But to you now a member of the body has to be necessarily an organ, a collection of cells that performs functions. So consciousness is a body function. Like digestion. But it is still a part of everything you consider a body, because a body isn't only organs and cells. But if you believe a body is only comprised of it's organs and cells, and consciousness is not an organ nor made of cells, does that mean you believe consciousness is separated from the body? Are you a dualist then?

Organs are just specialized collections of cells.

 

The set of “body” comprises   cells, and their products.

 

Rather than saying mind or consciousness is like digestion, or a separate part, it’s probably most accurate to say that mind itself doesn’t exist in the same way an itch doesn’t exist.  It’s a name we’ve given to the experience of having a brain.

 

So, no, I don’t believe the mind is a body part or something separate from the body.  I also don’t believe it’s a body function.

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Philip027

I'm not quite sure what the whole dualist thing is getting at, but I do know what the only thing it has me thinking of is.

 

yamiyugi-l.png?1371744397

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CBC
1 hour ago, mreid said:

I wonder if there is a correlation between one's capacity for logic and their sexual orientation.

Well congratulations on writing the one thing that may finally convince me to fuck off from this site. I mean, maybe not, but possibly. You're welcome to feel smug about that if you wish, I don't care.

 

Good lord.

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