Cheshire-Cat

UK Teresa May's post-brexit immigration policy

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ben8884

So looks like no vote tomorrow? Corbyn should just call for a confidence vote. The SNP and Lib Dems have said they would back it and I bet enough Tories would abstain and let the vote pass. This government is a complete shambles. 

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ben8884

So...busy day in Parliament today. Thoughts?

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Ortac

I think that there should be another referendum... but this time people should have to pass a multiple choice test on the topic of Mrs May's proposed deal to show that they have a reasonable understanding of it in order to be allowed to vote! :P

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Skycaptain

This is rapidly becoming a total fiasco. The only stock Britain has left in the world is Laughing stock 

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Ortac

The French government has recently passed new laws that will protect the rights and status of Brits resident in France in the event that the United Kingdom crashes out of the European Union without any deal. It seems to me that the French government cares more about the welfare of Brits right now than their own government which doesn't seem to give a shit! 

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Skycaptain

It's not the government's fault. It was mass media and a few racist muppet with loud mouths conning the Alf Garnret generation

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daveb

 

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ben8884

I think another referendum is the only way out this. We hold a referendum based on this exact deal. If it passes, then Parliament must let the bill pass, if it doesn't then we stay in the EU. Either way we need to do something because between the government's incompetence, the Brexiteers not offering a better solution and Corbyn's dithering it seems to me that Parliament can no longer be trusted with this. 

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timewarp

Here we go. Now we get to the core of what Brexit has always been about - Tory infighting. No matter if Theresa May wins or loses this evening, nothing will be resolved. The only thing that a referendum would achieve is to once again take the Tory infighting to the rest of the country and make sure it's even more divided than it already is.

 

There's only one way out, and like in every classic tragedy it will never happen - change the voting system to a proportional one, so people have a realistic chance to be represented in parliament. Without that the infighting in both the main parties, in particular the Tories, will never stop.

 

For my part I'm now in full-on contingency planning mode. Leave means leave, and that means I might actually leave.

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Sally

There's going to be a no-confidence vote tomorrow.  May is probably doomed.  

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Telecaster68

Despite the media reporting, it's not actually officially confirmed, yet. And she could win anyway. Nothing about this seems predictable. 

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Ortac

Whatever you may think of Mrs May, nobody can deny that she has had the most difficult job of any UK prime minister since world war 2. I don't know what these rebels expect her to do. She has worked bloody hard with a thankless task and done the best she can in the crazy circumstances that she inherited. And now, at a time when the economy of the UK is at very real risk of going off a cliff edge in less than four months time, there is infighting, votes of no confidence, and potentially leadership contests! It is seriously appalling.

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timewarp
22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Despite the media reporting, it's not actually officially confirmed, yet. And she could win anyway. Nothing about this seems predictable. 

It is confirmed. I've just seen Graham Brady's official press release.

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Ortac
44 minutes ago, rudolph the timewarp said:

There's only one way out, and like in every classic tragedy it will never happen - change the voting system to a proportional one, so people have a realistic chance to be represented in parliament. Without that the infighting in both the main parties, in particular the Tories, will never stop.

Agreed,  the UK voting system is appalling. I hold the controversial opinion (and especially so as I am a foreigner) that the UK is not a true democracy. It is a pseudo democracy. Because first past the post is not democratic.

 

There is certainly no proportional representation over the brexit issue. There was 48% of voters who didn't want it, and they are being completely ignored.

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Telecaster68
20 minutes ago, rudolph the timewarp said:

It is confirmed. I've just seen Graham Brady's official press release.

Ohhhhh. Cool. 

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Skycaptain

The removal of Theresa May won't make much difference. We'd still have a divided government who don't care what's best for the country 

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Telecaster68

But it might, might just spark an election....

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ben8884
50 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But it might, might just spark an election....

Trouble is May might win an election and even if she doesn't can Corbyn or another Tory do any better? Even Corbyn was unsure he would win just yesterday. This is crap, we need a vote on Brexit first and then deal with this other nonsense later. This is not the time for this crap. 

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Skycaptain

Just say that Labour got us into the financial mess, Conservatives got us into the political mess, UKIP split the country in two, so disenfranchise anyone who has been a member of any of these parties first 😋 😋 

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Ortac

Hey, Brexiteers of England. As it's fast approaching pantomime season for you guys right now, this is for you:

 

Where's your economy? Where's your future? 

 

Spoiler

IT'S BEHIND YOU!

 

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Anthracite_Impreza

I genuinely do still feel sorry for May, but she deserves it for being a Tory so... No politician gives a shit about a council-estate living, disabled benefit-scrounger like me anyway, so I'm fucked regardless.

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Telecaster68
3 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I genuinely do still feel sorry for May, but she deserves it for being a Tory so... No politician gives a shit about a council-estate living, disabled benefit-scrounger like me anyway, so I'm fucked regardless.

Some do. I've met them. They just don't often get into sufficient power to change anything. 

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Anthracite_Impreza
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Some do. I've met them. They just don't often get into power. 

Which just goes to prove the primary aim of politics is to preserve the status quo ;) 

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Telecaster68
6 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Which just goes to prove the primary aim of politics is to preserve the status quo ;) 

It's the effect, often. But then the status quo includes things like 'no civil war' which is probably a good thing. 

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Anthracite_Impreza
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But then the status quo includes things like 'no civil war' which is probably a good thing.

Not if you're a fan of Captain America ;) 

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Telecaster68

Ask a Congolese whether they think civil war is a good idea... 

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ben8884

May will most likely survive the confidence vote. The question is, will anyone challenge her for leadership? More Tory nonsense-give us a vote on the deal!

Apparently shes not running in the next election. Listening to Hestletine and running a scenario in my head of a Britain in a parallel world where Hestletine became PM in 1991. 

May won 200 to 117. Rees-Mogg is basically claiming its rigged as most MPs are secretaries and envoys and therefor on the PM's payroll. 

Another point was raised was while the majority of Tories have confidence in her, they still have not changed their vote on her Brexit deal. 

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Blaiddmelyn

I'd imagine she won because a leadership contest at this point in time is moronic and, quite frankly, Theresa May is right: if you change the PM now, there won't be a Brexit deal even if the EU turns around and offers its head on a plate. 

 

Rees-Mogg is starting to remind me of what Brexiteers think Remainers are like - he doesn't like the result so he's throwing his toys out of the pram to change it. If he thought it'd be rigged, why did he start the whole thing off? It's not as though the process was invented this morning so he would have known it could be "rigged" beforehand.  

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timewarp
4 hours ago, ben8884 said:

Apparently shes not running in the next election.

Not quite. What she said is that she's not running in a 2022 election. If there's an early election she might well run and if it happens within the next year there's now not even anything to stop her.

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ben8884

So after all this, we are exactly where we were before-a vote on Brexit that the PM refuses to give Parliament and a Parliament that wouldn't know what to do with the results even if it got it. Time for a 3rd referendum!

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