Some questions for sexuals on they feel about sex

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, CBC said:

This wasn't framed as a debate though

Yeah exactly. Someone can't claim they 'genuinely want to learn by asking questions' then go and claim that's debating and act like everyone else should be fine with it.

 

Mreid did you notice in your response to Tele you constantly reframed everything he said to suit your own narrative? Even though he's the sexual so be default knows more about being sexual? And the way you reframed his statements made them mean something completely different than the way he intended them. 

[ryn2]

10 minutes ago, mreid said:

In which case it must be acknowledged that it belongs to the "body", not the "mind", following a dualist logic. Because it's sexual desire.

That assumes one believes mind and body are separate, which I don’t.

 

Emotions/desires/etc. originate in the biochemical and electrochemical processes of the brain but we experience the results through our consciousness, or mind.

[Guest 80814]

15 minutes ago, mreid said:

I just think there's more to people than sexuality.

I’d be worried if someone didn’t think that.

[Ceebs]

@mreid, if you're looking for the nitty-gritty details regarding the biology of human sexuality, do you not think there are far better places to learn about that? Genuine suggestion, not being snarky. We can give you our feelings (you literally asked for feelings in the title of your thread) and reference whatever we happen to know on the matter, but would you not be better off seeking hard data elsewhere? And if hard data is not what you want, what is there to debate about personal experiences?

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, mreid said:

[...]observing sexuals from the outside, not actually feeling what they feel. I asked them about it.

That’s one problem, though... feelings are emotional and often irrational.

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, mreid said:

It only matters whether if you think there's more to people than sexuality.

Where did anyone claim there’s

nothing more to people than sexuality?  “Body” and “sexuality” are not synonyms, and neither are “biology” and “sexuality.”

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, mreid said:

Some feelings are justified and have a rational basis. Feeling that arise from instincts are not, or at least they are not what you'd call "rational"

Some thoughts are justified and have a rational basis.  Emotions just are.  They all arise from what were once instincts.

[iff]

Please can we get the thread in a respectful manner to each other and stay on topic

 

iff,

moderator, sexual partners, friends & allies

[ryn2]

13 minutes ago, CBC said:

And if hard data is not what you want, what is there to debate about personal experiences?

On the original topic, this is a key point.  People’s experiences, emotions, etc., are not debatable.  If you ask someone how they feel and they tell you, that’s... that.  You may not feel the same way, and that’s just as fine, but it doesn’t disprove anything about what they’re experiencing/feeling,

 

If you want to understand the science behind sexual desire you won’t find it by asking anyone - sexual or asexual - how they feel about sex.

[Telecaster68]

One more time, and the last one. Sexuality is not just about reproduction for most people. I have no idea how you can be a sentient human being in the world and think this is the case.

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, mreid said:

Sexuality is a part of biology. Body is just a term that's commonly used to define things that relate to physicality and sexuality. Sexual desire only concerns reproduction. The sexuals here have been talking mostly about sexual desire, the only purpose of which is reproduction. Sexual desire can generate pair-bonding hormones the purpose of which has to do with child-rearing.

You are making some statements and generalizations here which are not factual and/or too narrow, so your conclusion isn’t actually proven.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Sexuality might be solely for reproduction in some species but it isn't in many "higher" mammals, I mean just look at bonobos. They have sex pretty much everyday, in ways that cannot produce offspring, as a social bonding/dispute resolution/make-up thing. A lot of male animals hump other males as a show of dominance too.

[ryn2]

4 minutes ago, mreid said:

If a thought is justified and has a rational basis, doesn't that mean that an emotion that originates from it is also justified and rational?

No, it’s no different than any other emotion.  Reptile brain is reptile brain.

[Ceebs]

37 minutes ago, mreid said:

@CBC if you don't want to post in this thread, then don't.

Well, you'll notice that I've chosen not to answer your questions. The ways in which you decided to phrase them were indicative of your own feelings and beliefs on the matter, and the ways you're responding others' input backs that up, and I really have no desire to share certain personal things with you that put me in a vulnerable position with someone who's not all that respectful. I don't have a need to have my private life torn apart and analysed by you. I may be more open with people who were more respectful.

 

Someone I'm close to who doesn't post anymore mentioned yesterday that she believes it's somewhat masochistic for sexuals to stick around AVEN, and I don't particularly disagree.

[Telecaster68]

She's right. Though she probably used more swears.

[Ceebs]

2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

She's right. Though she probably used more swears.

I was probably the one doing the majority of the swearing, tbh.  The more distance you have from AVEN, the less you swear during discussions about it, I think. 

[Ceebs]

People like to use the word 'offend' or 'offended' in funny ways.

 

I don't think my presence is of any value in this thread at this point. And I sure don't have the energy to debate or respond to every sentence I write, so the more involved I get, the more I'll regret it. Peace, guys.

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, mreid said:

People's experiences may not be debatable, but how they feel/think about them is.

No, it isn’t.  No one but the person having the feelings knows how they feel, and feelings aren’t right or wrong.

 

How people think about the way they feel is also not debatable.

 

You (any “you”) can think differently about how they feel than they do, but how they feel (and think about their feelings) isn’t debatable.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

3 minutes ago, mreid said:

In which case there is no sexual desire, it's just a form of social interaction. Two people can have sex but that doesn't mean they desire each other sexually.

It's still sexual interaction though, I was under the impression that's what we were on about. It is possible for one bodily function to serve multiple purposes - fear can serve as a warning but also be fun for its own sake (horror film, rollercoaster etc.); it's still fear. In the same way sexuality can be for reproduction, bonding and simple fun - which is why all animals have sex btw; they don't know babies are the result, but they like how it feels.

[ryn2]

6 minutes ago, mreid said:

And sexuality is part of reptile brain.

 

And why exactly am I not allowed to have my own opinion?

1) along with all other emotions, desires, instincts, and many non-conscious regulatory functions.

 

2) you are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else is.  Opinions are not facts.

[ryn2]

9 minutes ago, mreid said:

The function of sexuality is reproduction. That is a fact.

No, that’s a generalization...

[ryn2]

11 minutes ago, mreid said:

Which in itself should be proof that there is more to people than sexuality.

You keep bringing this up, but even you agreed no one is claiming it’s untrue to start with.

[ryn2]

7 minutes ago, CBC said:

And I sure don't have the energy to debate or respond to every sentence I write.

Especially without multiquote!  

[uhtred]

1 hour ago, mreid said:

Sexuality is a part of biology. Body is just a term that's commonly used to define things that relate to physicality and sexuality. Sexual desire only concerns reproduction. The sexuals here have been talking mostly about sexual desire, the only purpose of which is reproduction. Sexual desire can generate pair-bonding hormones the purpose of which has to do with child-rearing.

 

No one claimed all there is to people is sexuality, however, when someone defines sexual desire as loving the "whole" person for who they are, since sexual desire relates only to sexuality whose purpose is reproduction, what is implicit in such a statement is that whoever thinks that way seems to believe the "whole" person is defined by their sexuality. Whether if that's just their perception of the person or reality for everyone, I don't know.

 

Exactly. Like the emotions that are created from sexual desire alone, because sexual desire is an instinct.

Also, thoughts can originate emotions. If a thought is justified and has a rational basis, doesn't that mean that an emotion that originates from it is also justified and rational?

"Purpose" is not a well defined word.  Clearly many humans choose to engage in sex for non-reproductive purposes.  Many enjoy sexual activities that do not result in pregnancy and many go to extra effort to avoid pregnancy.   

 

This may be due to very practical evolutionary principals.  Sexual desire and enjoyment will tend to cause a couple to stay together which is probably beneficial for their offspring and may be beneficial to society in general.  It may help society for people to have another person that they care deeply about - it gives them something beyond their own life to value.  

 

 

[Baam]

35 minutes ago, mreid said:

In which case it is not sexuality, is romantic feelings/ affection / whatever

 

The only purpose of sexuality alone is reproduction. Nothing else.

 

The function of sexuality is reproduction. That is a fact.

 

In which case there is no sexual desire, it's just a form of social interaction. Two people can have sex but that doesn't mean they desire each other sexually.

I'm surprised these comments have gone (largely) unchallenged. I'm sorry you see my sexuality - lesbian - as a 'social interaction', or 'political statement'. I'm pretty astounded that you seem to think lesbian and gay people are unable to feel sexual desire? We don't have sex to reproduce, and if you read my responses to the initial questions a couple of pages back, I explained that a lot of people's intentions with sex are not purely physical. It's kind of like saying the point to food is not to starve, and no one eats for enjoyment. Take it how you like it, but some people eat when they're not hungry for enjoyment, that's just how people are now. Same with sex. Humans evolved to enjoy sex, otherwise we'd rarely do it. It's not just to make babies... I do not sexually desire another woman because I want her babies, I'd have to be even more deranged than I already am to think that was going to work if I were to have sex with her. 

 

As I also said, sexuality for most people is more about the romance and whole life partner thing. No one gets a wife solely to have kids since the whole patriarchal monarchy thing! Sexuality and what you call romanticism is inexplicably linked and bound for most people.

 

I'm actually bordering on offended that you think that homosexuality is a form of social interaction, but mostly amused. Yes, we are capable of sexual desire, I can't believe I have to state this. No, it's not a political statement. It's love. All we want is to be left alone, and have all the rights straight couples do; I hate how that seems to be too much to ask.

[Ceebs]

Ugh I said I was gone, but.

 

Yeah I thought of that briefly as well, Baam. Wasn't sure I wanted to go there because I've no idea what the OP's views on homosexuality are and didn't feel like debating that as well would be the wisest idea for me personally, so I chose to just leave it be. But you're right, of course. I'm quite certain that I know when I'm experiencing sexual desire, and since it's not for a dude, I'm fairly confident it's not about making babies. Good lord, those would be some demon children were it possible though, lol.

 

mreid seems to not understand anything more than the biological side of sex.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mreid said:

In which case there is no sexual desire, it's just social interaction 

So two people (or two bonobos) of any gender/s giving each other oral sex at the same time (69) until they both orgasm in each others mouths has nothing to do with sexual desire? Even though it's a mutually sexually pleasurable and emotionally bonding experience that won't lead to reproduction? How are you to know if two lesbian women giving each other oral sex don't desire each other sexually? Or people of any sexual orientation for that matter because heteros love 69 too 

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, Baam said:

I'm surprised these comments have gone (largely) unchallenged.

Without multiquote it’s too exhausting to scroll back and tackle every comment individually.  😐

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Without multiquote it’s too exhausting to scroll back and tackle every comment individually.  😐

Yeah same. I have so much to respond to now but need to wait until I have some time on my comp later 😕

 

And I know most people (including mreid) probably won't even read it so it's going to be a lot of effort for very little reward. 

 

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

And I know most people (including mreid) probably won't even read it so it's going to be a lot of effort for very little reward. 

I literally never am on AVEN on my computer so it’s 100% not worth the work for me.