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Some questions for sexuals on they feel about sex


mreid

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Anthracite_Impreza
10 hours ago, CBC said:

"I love you so much, here's a chocolate bar for your soul."

That'd work for me; marriage or civil partnership? ;)

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

@Baam, thanks, very interesting and comprehensive reasons. Quite an insight. I've been researching around the Biological stance on things, so been thinking at atom level for a while. Good to see it panning out to the psychological results. That's what I meant by the selfish gene (title of the famous Dawkins book).

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12 minutes ago, mreid said:

I knowļ»æļ»æ you are not, we are just debating. You said earlier that you is something that is created from youļ»ær physical body. This implies that you believe the "soul" (ļ»æso to speak, whatever you want to call it) anļ»æd the body are separate things. Here you seem tļ»æo state that your "self" plus your body are what constitutes you, so I will assume thaļ»æt to you both things are you.

However, what if who you are psychologically doesn't match what you look like physically? That way no one could love the whole you, they could only love either your body or your mind. Or, the person you are psychologically matches what you look like physically, in which case your whole "self" is defined by your biology.

Sorry, I upgraded to iOS 12 last night and can no longer multiquote.

Ā 

1) Ā Youā€™re debating. Ā Iā€™m just giving my thoughts/opinion.

Ā 

2) Iā€™m neither a dualist nor religious/spiritual. Ā To me consciousness arises out of bodily processes and does not exist separate from the body. Ā Weā€™ve been asked by the mod not to talk about this here, though, so I wonā€™t further elaborate.

Ā 

3) Ā Iā€™m not sure what you mean by what one looks like not matching who one is psychologically. Ā I agree that someone can find others nice/interesting/intellectually compatible but also physically unattractive (or find them physically unattractive and not like them personality-wise), but to me thatā€™s on the beholderā€™s end. Ā Itā€™s not the personā€™s body and mind ā€œnot matching up.ā€

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I donā€™t think transgender is a mismatch between ā€œwho you are psychologicallyā€ and who you are physically. Ā From what I understand itā€™s more an issue with societal expectations around gender (that everyone who is born with ā€œxā€ primary sex characteristics will also possess ā€œyā€ gender).

Ā 

That said I can see how a dualist transgender person might view it that way. Ā Itā€™s certainly not something I would argue with them, and itā€™s not like any of us can prove it either way.

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36 minutes ago, mreid said:

we are just debating.

I think that's where the issue lies, to be honest mreid. You are the one debating everyone else when they are trying to explain the truth of how they feel in answer to your question. It's like if I asked ''what food do you like?'' and you answeredĀ ''When I get hungry I sometimes crave pasta''. Then I started debating you on how you can't be correct about the fact that you crave pasta, that you probably don't understand what craving is, and you possibly don't understand what 'hungry' means, and actually I'm not sure if you really even understand what pasta is.. When all you were trying to do was answer my question. Now you're trapped in this debate about how you're confused about how and why you like certain foods and you're just like ''wtf? How did this even happen?''.

Ā 

Most people who you end up debating with on AVENĀ weren't trying to debate you initially: They were trying to answer a question that you asked about their own personal experience.

Ā 

40 minutes ago, mreid said:

No, but she is allowed to give her opinion on the matter isn't she.

There's a difference between giving a personalĀ opinion (sex doesn't make me happy personally) and answering for someone else who the question was aimed at (saying it doesn't seem to make other people happy, after those exact people have just been explaining why it makes them happy). The next comment about doing some research around it was what I was responding to though, not the fact that she gave an opinion about sex.

Ā 

Again, I still need to respond to your questions (I'm finally home). It will take a while though so won't be until later today.

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54 minutes ago, mreid said:

Thisļ»æļ»æ beiļ»æng said, sexļ»æual desire could only "love" the whole "you" if the whole you was purely made of biology if yoļ»æur body and your mind didn't differ and if therļ»æļ»æe was nothing more to you than sexuality.ļ»æ

Sexual desire isnā€™t an entity that has its own emotions. Ā It doesnā€™t love (or not love) any part of people.

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1 hour ago, mreid said:

Bravoļ»æ. It's beautiful and full of meaning, like a trash bag and tree leaves flying in the wind. Or like an inverted urinal.ļ»æ

You're welcome. It was meant to be ridiculous. Although IĀ have a good command of the English language, from an emotional standpointĀ IĀ have no idea how to write a poem about the matter,Ā and evenĀ if I did andĀ seriously wanted to attempt such a thing,Ā I wouldn't be sharing it publicly. Least of all on AVEN.Ā Want me to send some nudes, too? (ALSO. A. JOKE. They'd be wasted on an asexual anyway, plus I'm not that indiscriminate.)

Ā 

And my phone doesn't want to let me quote anything else for some reason, I can't highlight it,Ā but no, actually I was completely sober in terms of when I wrote anything else you quoted. Nor was I "high as a kite" at any point, just enough to take the edge off a pretty terrible day of, you know, things like suicidal thoughts. I don't like the strains that make me feel mentally slowed down and never smoke them. I was quite clear-headed actually.Ā I'm assuming you're trying to paint me as a stupid loser druggie. Nice try. :)Ā Lol, the people on this site have some funny ideas about cannabis use... but that's another topic.

Ā 

And you seem to be "debating" sexual people on every point they make, rather than accepting and attempting to understand, as though to prove that you know better. So that does seem a bit like telling people what it's like when you're just doing it over and over.

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1 minute ago, CBC said:

Andļ»æ my phone doesnļ»æ't want to let me quote anything else for soļ»æmeļ»æ reaļ»æļ»æson,ļ»æ ļ»æ

This just started happening to me today as well. Ā I was blaming iOS 12, since I upgraded last night, but perhaps itā€™s actually a change or issue on the site end.

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Just now, ryn2 said:

This just started happening to me today as well. Ā I was blaming iOS 12, since I upgraded last night, but perhaps itā€™s actually a change or issue on the site end.

I'm an iPhone user as well, just updated to iOS 12 last week. You could very well be right, it started for me recently too. Was fine before that. If I reload the page it works again, but only once. Won't allow me to quote any more text after the first bit.

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Just now, CBC said:

I'm an iPhone user as well, just updated to iOS 12 last week. You could very well be right, it started for me recently too. Was fine before that. If I reload the page it works again, but only once. Won't allow me to quote any more text after the first bit.

It could be that, then. Ā I upgraded last night and I donā€™t think I had occasion to multiquote again until today... but it was definitely working yesterday afternoon.

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Yeah it's probably the iOS 12 compatibility with the site, given that AVEN's software has not changed recently. It's pissing me off because that was quite a convenient feature.

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4 minutes ago, CBC said:

Yeah it's probably the iOS 12 compatibility with the site, given that AVEN's software has not changed recently. It's pissing me off because that was quite a convenient feature.

Same! Ā I donā€™t want to try to respond to a solid textwall on my phone (oh, the scrolling!) but Iā€™m not a giant fan of spamming everyone with tons of separate mini-replies.

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1 hour ago, mreid said:

I know you are not, we are just debating. You said earlier that you is something that is created from your physical body. This implies that you believe the "soul" (so to speak, whatever you want to call it) and the body are separate things. Here you seem to state that your "self" plus your body are what constitutes you, so I will assume that to you both things are you.

However, what if who you are psychologically doesn't match what you look like physically? That way no one could love the whole you, they could only love either your body or your mind. Or, the person you are psychologically matches what you look like physically, in which case your whole "self" is defined by your biology. But there is more to a mind than sexually titillating stuff, the same way that there is more to a body than sexuality. However, if someone feels sexually attracted to you, they are still not loving your whole self, they are just loving the sexual part of yourself. Wanting to be sexually desired is wanting to be loved only in that way, in my view. And the sexual part of you is always biological.

Ā 

So it doesn't really matter if you see your mind and your body as different things, or if your mind and your body are what constitutes "you". In the end there is always the biological and the... rational? and sexual desire undeniably only concerns the biological.

Ā 

This being said, sexual desire could only "love" the whole "you" if the whole you was purely made of biology if your body and your mind didn't differ and if there was nothing more to you than sexuality. Not saying that's the case, just following the logic here.

Sexual desire is not really about the body (well, not for some).Ā Some people sexually desire others without even everĀ seeingĀ them (online relationships, phone romances, letter romances, etc). They fall for the personality andĀ thatĀ makes them desire the person. So, why does it matter if your body matches "who" you are as a person?Ā 

Ā 

If my spouse changes their body, then I will still sexually desire them. Even if they change from one sex to the next, or otherwise get major plastic surgery. It isn't theirĀ bodyĀ that sparked it. It's the emotional connection we have. It has nothing at all to do with their body. I love who they are and that makes me desire them.Ā 

Ā 

And wanting to be sexually desired means wanting to be loved in the ways that are important to you. The same as ... basically everyone does. I knew a lady that didn't feel loved if her husband didn't buy her expensive gifts. I knew a lady that didn't feel loved if her husband never did the chores. We each have a certain act (or acts)Ā that makes us feel loved and cared for and for many people, sex is part of that emotional/psychological need to feel loved/cared for.Ā 

Ā 

Personally, I don't have that need. But, it does feel nice, so I understand why losing that would be an issue for some people. Just like I don't personally feel an emotional need to have kids, but I get why some people do and thus couldn't be with someone who didn't share itĀ  - even if they loved them and would be devastated to have to break up over it.Ā 

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8 minutes ago, mreid said:

Isn'tļ»æ tļ»æhat the very definition of transgender? Why would theyļ»æ want to transition if that wasn't the case?ļ»æļ»æ

People sometimes want to transition physically to address dysmorphia, but often they want to ā€œpassā€ societally.

Ā 

Plenty of transgender people donā€™t physically transition in any way at all.

Ā 

Iā€™m not transgender (and from what youā€™ve posted elsewhere, neither are you) so we should probably leave anything more than speculation to those who are.

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12 minutes ago, mreid said:

Sinceļ»æ they are so eager to share their opinions Iļ»æļ»æ would expect that they would actually like me asking them about their experiences.

There is a difference between sharing/beingĀ asked about something and debating it. Ā Not everyone here has debate training, and not everyone with debate training here wants to debate these topics. Ā Some people come here for support, to feel camaraderie, and/or to help others.

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25 minutes ago, mreid said:

Does that make things clearer for you?

The word you should beĀ looking for is discussion, mreid, that's what the people who respond to you are trying to have. You'll get the hang of doing it in a way that doesn't offend people eventually I hope. ;)Ā 

Ā 

25 minutes ago, mreid said:

Since they are so eager to share their opinions I would expect that they would actually like me asking them about their experiences.

@ryn2'sĀ answer sums it up perfectly. The Hot Box is actually the place designated for heated debates and many members avoid that place intentionally as they want to avoid debating topics that may be offensive or hurtful (which is how most of yours turn out). People who respond to you in other areas of the forum (outside of Hot Box) are not looking for heated debate, but discussion. There is a way to ask people questions without it coming across like you're trying to force them into a 'gotcha', or to twist their experiences into something that fits your preconceived notions of how life is supposed to work.Ā 

Ā 

25 minutes ago, mreid said:

To me she was just giving her personal opinion and sharing her experiences. This is my thread and I think she is free to do it.

You possibly need to glance over ToS again. Just because you started a thread doesn't mean those responding are free to tread dangerously close to breaking the rules if you say they are. :)

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1 minute ago, mreid said:

And why is that a bad thing?

Because heated debates where you offend everyone you respond to are meant to be reserved solely for the Hot Box.Ā 

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3 minutes ago, mreid said:

Inļ»æ otļ»æher words, you lost the debate and didn't like it. And I don't have "debļ»æateļ»æ training" either, whatever that is.ļ»æļ»æ

Nope, sorry. Ā As I said earlier, I wasnā€™t debating you to start with. Ā I alsoĀ wasnā€™t trying to win anything, and am not particularly invested in the topic so thereā€™s nothing not to like. Ā I was just curious about some of your opinions based on what you had already stated, and you clarified.

Ā 

Debate training - courses in logic, for example, or training to participate on a debate team.

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People who are humble and asking questions in an attempt to learn generally avoid asking those questions in condescending ways. Also though, if you don't know something and you're asking people with actual experience to tell you about their experiences, it's just kind of... weird... to try to counter what they tell you as if your theories override that.

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8 minutes ago, mreid said:

Ā 

It's not speculation, it's the very definition of transgenderism, as defined by transgender people. They are free to correct me if I am wrong.

The definition you posted doesnā€™t defend your opinion, though.

Ā 

I think Wikipediaā€™s choice of language is actually clearer and more modern: Ā ā€œTransgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their assigned sex.ā€ Ā The term birth sex (as opposed to ā€œsex assigned at birthā€) is a bit dated.

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Telecaster68

It can, as long as you view the mind as being biological in that it's an emergent property of the brain, but you don't. You're a dualist.

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22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It can, as long as you view the mind as being biological in that it's an emergent property of the brain, but you don't. You're a dualist.

That, and - while emotions have their source in brain electrochemisty - the experience ofĀ emotions themselves isnā€™tĀ logical. Ā In other words, knowing that fear likelyĀ arose as a protective mechanism doesnā€™t disarm it when it fires off inappropriately.

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2 minutes ago, mreid said:

Actuallyļ»æ I never said explicitly that I was a dualist, or that I evļ»æen believed in soļ»æuls

...which is the difference between debate and sharing of personal viewpoints. Ā The purpose of debate is to defend a statement. Ā You donā€™t have to agree with or believe in it... just use whatever means you can to defend it.

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Telecaster68

Are you not a duallist then?

Ā 

To sexuals, sexual feelings aren't purely about physicality and reproduction. They're just as much about expressing emotions. As an asexual, you don't experience this, but your lack of experiencing it doesn't mean it's untrue for sexual people.

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5 minutes ago, mreid said:

I doļ»æļ»æ know that sexuality does not belong to the "soul" or the "mind" however you define it.ļ»æļ»æļ»æļ»æļ»æ

It does if one is not a dualist.

Ā 

And it conceivably could even if one is a dualist, if one experiences sexual desire the way a few sexuals have posted here today.

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Telecaster68

Sexuality absolutely does belong to the mind. Where else could it possibly exist?

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11 minutes ago, mreid said:

Debatesļ»æ sometimes happen in the classroom. Shitty teachers though tend not to like to be quļ»æestioned, ļ»æbļ»æut from my experience good ones tend to like debates.

Absolutely they do -- as you said yourself,Ā sometimes.

Ā 

Also it's not a perfect analogy for sure. We aren't here as objective university professors, we're here as people sharing our personal experiences and emotions, and you're trying to make it something very clinical sounding. Just because it's all biology when it comes down to it doesn't cheapen or take away from the way we experience that aspect of a relationship, or make it any less important.

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