uhtred

Ace view on orgasms

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uhtred

I've gotten the impression that some (many? few? most?) asexuals feel that for sexuals the "goal" of sex is an orgasm.  Is that a common feeling?   At least in my case it  seems to be a key point of misunderstanding between my wife and I.  She pretty clearly thinks that an activity that results in an O is "good" sex. 

 

 

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Jade Cross

Its the popularly advertised idea on the media anyways.

 

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argar

I guess I can see how the end goal of sex being the orgasm.

 

Examining that idea is interesting.

 

Does that mean that the orgasm is like the pay off for getting everything else to flow naturally into that?

 

Like setting the mood and creating the emotional environment where a good orgasm can happen is the work that goes into creating that situation?

 

I don't know.

 

In general I find emotional relationships more fulfilling that physical ones, but I can see how taking pleasure in pleasing someone physically, and feeling physical pleasure in return, can be appealing.

 

I think basing things in a physical feeling can be a little confusing though.

 

What if one day you don't feel that same orgasm that you used to feel way back when, does that mean you logically assume that you are no longer in love with that person?

 

Again, I don't know the answer to these questions.

 

I don't really tie emotional feeling with physically touching anyone.

 

Well, I do enjoy petting my dogs, but I don't think that translates to the human realm. Lol

 

I hope all this confusing rambling made a little sense.

 

Have a beautiful night.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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CBC

Non-ace here, and I mean, it's a goal of sex... although if someone thinks it's the only one, or that sex that results in orgasm is automatically good sex, or sex that doesn't is automatically bad... then yeah, they're leaving out a lot of the other components. I imagine this is something that should be expected, as the innate desire for the type of connection experienced during sex is precisely what asexuals lack. To many of them, it's perhaps more thought of as "getting off with another person". And orgasm is quite heavily focused on -- all it takes is perusing the covers of some issues of Cosmopolitan to see that -- so. Not too difficult to see how a lot of asexuals would get that idea.

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Galactic Turtle

I'd assume so? Orgasm, procreation, or to solve an argument.

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FictoCannibal.

I'm embarrassed to admit that for me personally if there's no orgasm it's not worth it. I guess I spent so long having sex where it was all about my ex just getting off (and me experiencing no pleasure at all) that now, me having an orgasm is what matters. Yes, sex is about bonding etc etc.. but... I can bond in all sorts of ways. If I'm going to choose sex as a way to bond, I better be getting an orgasm out of it or I'm not wasting my time. For most sexual people, sex is a very specific type of bonding that other acts cannot achieve in the same way. I'm just a weirdo.

 

Please, aces, don't take my response as representative of sexuals at large. Many get just as much (if not more) out of the emotional pleasure of the sex act that the importance of the orgasm itself pales in comparison. If you asked sexual people: would you rather be able to have partnered sex without orgasm for the rest of your life, or solo masturbation with an orgasm every time but no partnered sex, ever, almost all sexual people will take the sex without the orgasm!! 

 

13 minutes ago, Galactic Turtle said:

I'd assume so? Orgasm, procreation, or to solve an argument.

For most sexual people, it's more about the pleasure (both sexual and emotional) of the act itself. It's intimate, vulnerable, deeply bonding.. etc etc. Yes, the orgasm is important, but many sexual people would rather have sex with no orgasm than have no sex at all! :)

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ryn2

It’s definitely what we see promoted in media/societal stereotype... leaving a guy with “blue balls” gets a girl called all sorts of unflattering names, people fake it (and others talk about detecting faking), the earth moves, etc.

 

It’s also tangible.  You can’t “prove” warm, fuzzy feelings.

 

Sex for - some, at least - aces is basically the same as masturbation.  Isn’t orgasm the goal of masturbation?  It’s normally pretty annoying when something interferes with masturbation and prevents it...

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Philip027

Sex typically ends with the orgasm, so what else are we to assume?

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Laplace

For casual encounters, physical gratification seems to be the primary goal. I have friends who sleep around and they are clearly focused on a very simple and hedonistic goal; they don’t go into those encounters wishing for some sort of emotional connection. They may potentially want their partner to have a good time too, but these one-off encounters are intended to satisfy a fleeting desire.

 

For more prolonged relationships, from my understanding, sexual gratification seems to still be a big part of it, but it is also meant to reinforce emotional bonds too (at least in a healthy relationship). It’s a bonding activity.

 

So there’s some nuance to this stuff; though I assume sexual gratification is, for the most part, at least one primary focus of any consensual sexual encounter. I think most sexual people would consider it a disappointing experience if they didn’t orgasm at least once.

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Serran

Orgasm is a part of it, but not the main thing for some. Some enjoy the pleasure and teasing and bonding but aren't into the orgasm part all the time. Depends on the person though. Some need it every time. 

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CBC
17 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

If I'm going to choose sex as a way to bond, I better be getting an orgasm out of it or I'm not wasting my time. For most sexual people, sex is a very specific type of bonding that other acts cannot achieve in the same way. I'm just a weirdo.

Nah I don't think it's that weird. Personally I'd still take orgasm-less sex with someone I love over no sex at all, but I won't lie, I'd be bummed. I don't know in what universe that would happen though haha, I'm not particularly... err, difficult, unless one has no clue what they're doing.

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FictoCannibal.
25 minutes ago, CBC said:

I'd be bummed.

That's certainly my preference ;)

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CBC
3 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

That's certainly my preference ;)

Haha! Well played. Incidentally, it's one of my no thankses. :P 

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froglady

It sure seems to me like the point. Personally, I don't experience sex as pleasurable and was initially very confused by the vocalizations and facial expressions involved, but given what people will do to get someone else to help them with the orgasm thing, it sure seems to be the main thing. It also seems like there is the expectation that there will be some kind of mutual pleasure and the mutual goal of orgasm. I have come to believe that the mutuality or at least perceived mutuality is part of the excitement. It took me decades to figure this out but years of observing what people pay for and also what angers them has left me with this impression. It does seem to be a bonding thing kind of like an affirmation of closeness.

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CBC

Mutual pleasure and closeness are indeed more or less the goal, yeah. Which may or may not include orgasm. But yeah, that's why masturbation isn't really a substitute for sex for sexual people. It's a very specific type of human connection.

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Tunes

People keep mentioning bonding as being a bigger goal than orgasm, but is there really any bonding that goes on during sex that couldn't be achieved by non-sexual means? 

 

I mean, if you can get the same bonding experience from non-sexual means, then the bonding can't be the ultimate reason for having sex. Sex might be the way that they choose to go about bonding, but we still don't know why. It just diverts the question. Now the question becomes "why bond by having sex". Isn't orgasm the only thing that sets sex apart, that you cannot attain without sex? Or am I missing something else?

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Telecaster68
22 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Sex typically ends with the orgasm, so what else are we to assume?

Conversations end with some form of 'bye'. Is that the point of conversations?

 

Life ends in death. Is that the only point of life?

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ryn2
19 minutes ago, Tunes said:

People keep mentioning bonding as being a bigger goal than orgasm, but is there really any bonding that goes on during sex that couldn't be achieved by non-sexual means? 

 

I mean, if you can get the same bonding experience from non-sexual means, then the bonding can't be the ultimate reason for having sex. Sex might be the way that they choose to go about bonding, but we still don't know why. It just diverts the question. Now the question becomes "why bond by having sex". Isn't orgasm the only thing that sets sex apart, that you cannot attain without sex? Or am I missing something else?

The sexuals on here keep saying this thinking is part of what proves the rest of us are ace, but pushing for more info seems to just result in variations of “I can’t explain it to you in any way you’ll understand.”

 

It seems to be (at least for some people) an ultimate variation on trusting and letting down your guard.  I don’t personally “get” why it takes (or achieves) a higher level of trust to have sex than to give someone access to my bank account or share my deepest fears - unless I factor in contracting a signicant STD, and I don’t get the sense that’s what the sexuals mean - but I suppose that’s part of why it can’t be explained to me.  :)

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ryn2
Just now, Telecaster68 said:

Conversations end with some form of 'bye'. Is that the point of conversations?

 

Life ends in death. Is that the only point of life?

Typically orgasms are pleasurable.  “Bye” isn’t, on its own (although in some cases it does signal the end of something unpleasant), and it doesn’t seem

death is either (again, except as an end to something unpleasant).

 

I suppose that makes orgasm more similar to bye and death for many aces than it is for sexuals.  :)

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Telecaster68
25 minutes ago, Tunes said:

People keep mentioning bonding as being a bigger goal than orgasm, but is there really any bonding that goes on during sex that couldn't be achieved by non-sexual means? 

Yes. I doubt anyone who doesn't experience can actually truly appreciate it, but it's the only thing that couples do that combines the shared intense sensuality, giving and receiving pleasure, vulnerability, intimacy, the build up and release, exclusivity, all in one experience. 

 

Other activities are bonding, but not as intensely, and almost none are exclusive to couples.

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CBC
30 minutes ago, Tunes said:

People keep mentioning bonding as being a bigger goal than orgasm, but is there really any bonding that goes on during sex that couldn't be achieved by non-sexual means

Yes. It's a type of intimacy that isn't found elsewhere.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Tunes said:

Isn't orgasm the only thing that sets sex apart, that you cannot attain without sex?

No, it's the entire experience of sex itself.

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Telecaster68
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

 I don’t personally “get” why it takes (or achieves) a higher level of trust to have sex than to give someone access to my bank account or share my deepest fears 

It's more like the level of trust you'd need to be comfortable completely breaking down in snotty, uncontrollable body-wracking crying, probably with some howling and wailing thrown in, with someone.

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ryn2

I’m an ugly crier so pretty much everyone who’s ever seen me cry has seen that.  Well, without the wailing, as I just don’t tend to wail.

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Tunes
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

The sexuals on here keep saying this thinking is part of what proves the rest of us are ace, but pushing for more info seems to just result in variations of “I can’t explain it to you in any way you’ll understand.”

 

It seems to be (at least for some people) an ultimate variation on trusting and letting down your guard.  I don’t personally “get” why it takes (or achieves) a higher level of trust to have sex than to give someone access to my bank account or share my deepest fears - unless I factor in contracting a signicant STD, and I don’t get the sense that’s what the sexuals mean - but I suppose that’s part of why it can’t be explained to me.  :)

That's what I was thinking - and I'm also a very sensual person and me and my partner do cuddle naked and such. We still have that same "vulnerability" and "intimacy" as far as I can tell. The examples you gave supply emotional/mental vulnerability (which I think is the same, really), but even if we wanted to draw some kind of distinction between the physical intimacy and other forms of intimacy, you can still do that sort of thing without sex. I don't think the intimacy and bonding aspect is what asexuals lack at all. 

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CBC

There's an intimacy and bonding in the physical aspect of sex, of being comfortable with someone... well, doing what they're doing... that isn't part of just lying there together nakedly (although yes, that's also quite intimate).

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Tunes said:

That's what I was thinking - and I'm also a very sensual person and me and my partner do cuddle naked and such. We still have that same "vulnerability" and "intimacy" as far as I can tell. The examples you gave supply emotional/mental vulnerability (which I think is the same, really), but even if we wanted to draw some kind of distinction between the physical intimacy and other forms of intimacy, you can still do that sort of thing without sex. I don't think the intimacy and bonding aspect is what asexuals lack at all. 

The difference between cuddling and sex is that cuddling is generally static - there's no sensual build up and no physical arousal and release, with both partners enjoying that they can pleasure and be pleasured simultaneously by the same act.

 

Mostly asexuals say at this point 'but I don't get that'. Yup, we know. That's the point, it's the way physical and emotional intimacy and pleasure intertwine.

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Philip027
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Conversations end with some form of 'bye'. Is that the point of conversations?

Conversations typically end when all the things that needed to be communicated are communicated.  If someone ends a conversation with me, I'll assume they have said everything they care to say at that time.  Likewise, because I know sex typically ends with an orgasm, I know it's generally seen as a goal of sex.

 

4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Life ends in death. Is that the only point of life?

Death is kind of a huge huge aspect of life, and many spend a huge portion of their lives and energy preparing for it and coming to terms with it.

 

Not sure why you're suggesting that I think orgasm is the "only point" to sex when neither the OP or I said that.  I do think though that if you believe that it isn't considered a primary goal of sex for most people, you're pretty delusional.  Like I said, sex wouldn't typically conclude at the orgasm if that was the case.  People tend to stop doing things when they got what they wanted from it.  Conversations end when people communicated everything they want to say/hear.  Life, to me anyway, is a continuous journey of coming to grips with death, and many people have said things to the effect of "I can die happy now" once they've met their life goals and aspirations.  Death, one way or another, is indeed a focal point of life.

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Tunes
11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes. I doubt anyone who doesn't experience can actually truly appreciate it, but it's the only thing that couples do that combines the shared intense sensuality, giving and receiving pleasure, vulnerability, intimacy, the build up and release, exclusivity, all in one experience. 

 

Other activities are bonding, but not as intensely, and almost none are exclusive to couples.

Me and my completely ace partner cuddle naked. It's intensely sensual. We give and receive pleasure (of a variety of different types). We are vulnerable. We are intimate. It's very exclusive. It's something only couples do. We are not sexual. I think the only thing I'm missing there is the build up and release. But isn't that related to orgasm? Or am I confused about what orgasm means? 

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ryn2
6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

there's no sensual build up and no physical arousal and release

That kind of does make it about the orgasm, though...

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

Conversations typically end when all the things that needed to be communicated are communicated.

I think there's an element of AS in that statement, that conversation is an exchange of information. For NT's, two people chatting all night in a pub aren't communicating things that need to be communicated. They're enjoying each other's company and perspective.

 

2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

I do think though that if you believe that it isn't considered a primary goal of sex for most people, you're pretty delusional. 

A goal. Not the only one.

 

Generally good sex results in orgasm, but orgasm doesn't make sex good. It's possible to orgasm during sex and it still be really bad sex; and sometimes women orgasm during rape. It doesn't mean they've just had good sex, because orgasm is the point of sex.

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