mreid

[ace cis-females] Thoughts on "Alpha male" type guys?

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Lucinda
20 hours ago, mreid said:

What I am saying is a housewife needs a husband, and a traditional bread-winner husband needs a housewife. The reason is because the housewife has to tend to the house she doesn't have time to work, and because the bread-winner husband has to work he can't tend to the household. 

What you are describing are two people who individually believe that they can't individually work and tend to household tasks such as cleaning, cooking, maintenance, etc.  They are both needy and are looking for someone else to provide for their perceived incapabilities.  Are they both psychologically feminine, by your definition, as they both want to be provided for?

 

20 hours ago, mreid said:

You can't want to be taken care of and yet find unattractive someone whose main defining characteristic is taking care of others in a way. Even if you don't like alpha male types because you are a lesbian, you will probably still like masculine women.

But the needy bread winner is also looking for someone to take care of others in a way.  Are they looking for a masculine woman or an alpha male type?

 

Are people who can manage to both work and make sure their laundry gets done neither feminine nor masculine psychologically, according to your definition?

 

Lucinda

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Vara

Because of the qualifiers listed at the beginning I cannot really reply--we are asked to only reply to the scenario with the assumption that the 'alpha male' is a jerk. I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who was such a jerk...however I am a Christian woman and I would like to have a Biblically founded relationship--distinct gender roles that encourage equality, not superiority/inferiority. So yes I want a strong man who can take care of me, someone that I could submit to...but submission is not the same as inferiority. No man who is actually strong and secure and loving would treat his partner as an inferior.

 

I know I kind of am posting against the initial post's framework, I just thought it was worth pointing out that basic idea of Submission doesn't exclusively mean Inferiority. When you wait at a redlight or let an elderly person have your seat on the bus you are submitting--to laws or social rules or social expectations. But I don't think anybody would consider themselves 'inferior' to the people who have the green-light or the old lady who needs space to sit down.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
On 10/19/2018 at 1:01 AM, mreid said:

@gaogao @Lucinda I'd answer your questions but I already got a warning for pointing out basic logic, and if some people feel like me politely disagreeing with them justifies reporting me then I rather not.

You won't get in trouble by a mod if someone reports you for politely disagreeing with them. It's only actual breaches of ToS that get you in trouble, so don't worry!

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uhtred
On 10/10/2018 at 7:39 AM, mreid said:

@gaogao I am not downplaying the value of housewives. What I am saying is a housewife needs a husband, and a traditional bread-winner husband needs a housewife. The reason is because the housewife has to tend to the house she doesn't have time to work, and because the bread-winner husband has to work he can't tend to the household. They split the tasks and work as a team. In your fantasy you are supported by lottery money or whatever but the point is, you are being supported by something that someone else earned.

Someone who want to spend their life at home does need someone to support them, or have a lot of previous money from some source, whatever their genders.  Interestingly I know more house-husbands than house=wives.   OTOH, it is possible (but difficult) to hold a full time job and still raise children and take care of a house. 

 

Personally I like the situation where both people contribute both at work and  at home in a fairly even way.   Others are of course welcome to their preferences. 

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uhtred

I think the term "alpha male" is used in so many different ways at to be useless. Some people use it as equal to, but different from "beta" males, where Alphas are leaders, but also work toward their own benefit, Betas are more likely to work for the benefit of others.   Other people use "alpha" to mean *everything* good, and beta to mean everything bad.  Still others equate "alpha" with selfish violent a-holes. 

 

Humans are not primates or canines, their social structures are far more complex.  Other primates do not have the equivalent of rock stars, famous scientists, firemen, mountain climbers etc.   The great diversity of human behaviors makes comparisons with primates useless to me. 

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mreid

@uhtred I am not using the term alpha to mean everything good nor beta to mean everything bad. I am just saying that, objectively, most non-asexual women prefer alpha males.

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daveb
1 hour ago, mreid said:

I am just saying that, objectively, most non-asexual women prefer alpha males.

That's your thesis. But I don't see where it's been established as fact. You ignore or redefine things other people tell you (even about their own feelings and experiences) to suit your thesis, or at best dismiss them as minority exceptions. That negates the possibility of rational discussion. So I won't. 

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uhtred
1 hour ago, mreid said:

@uhtred I am not using the term alpha to mean everything good nor beta to mean everything bad. I am just saying that, objectively, most non-asexual women prefer alpha males.

How do you define "alpha"?  That will help the conversation.  My point was that the definitions vary so widely that people are not talking about the same thing at all.   What caracteristics do you consider to be "alpha".  Do those include any negative characteristics, and if so, what are those. 

 

 

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mreid
4 minutes ago, daveb said:

That's your thesis. But I don't see where it's been established as fact. You ignore or redefine things other people tell you (even about their own feelings and experiences) to suit your thesis, or at best dismiss them as minority exceptions. That negates the possibility of rational discussion. So I won't. 

Its not my thesis, its a well known fact of biology.

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ryn2
14 minutes ago, mreid said:

Its not my thesis, its a well known fact of biology.

That should make providing a clear definition, to uhtred’s point above, simple then.

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uhtred
23 hours ago, mreid said:

Its not my thesis, its a well known fact of biology.

I don't think it is.  It is discussed a lot in pop-psychology but I haven't seen anyone reference an actual journal paper.  If there is one, I'm interested in seeing it. 

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mreid
8 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I don't think it is.  It is discussed a lot in pop-psychology but I haven't seen anyone reference an actual journal paper.  If there is one, I'm interested in seeing it. 

 

@ryn2 as a heterosexual woman, do you find tall, muscular guys with chiseled jaws and a confident attitude attractive? Confident leader types?

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ryn2

I’m not sure I am a heterosexual woman.

 

That aside, no, not really.  Aesthetically I prefer more of a runner/skater/dancer build to bulk and big muscles.  I am not drawn to - if anything, I’m put off by - confident leader types.

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mreid
3 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I’m not sure I am a heterosexual woman.

 

That aside, no, not really.  Aesthetically I prefer more of a runner/skater/dancer build to bulk and big muscles.  I am not drawn to - if anything, I’m put off by - confident leader types.

But aren't you into BDSM? At least when you are doing those things there has to be a dominant part... unless that's you?

I don't mean to be nosy, and it isn't my intention to offend you with this question.

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ryn2
15 minutes ago, mreid said:

But aren't you into BDSM? At least when you are doing those things there has to be a dominant part... unless that's you?

I don't mean to be nosy, and it isn't my intention to offend you with this question.

Not all people who are into BSDM are into domination play.  Not all scenes require domination, and even those that do often don’t require that the people involved take on permanent or consistent D/s roles.  Plenty of people switch (take turns).

 

Also, taking on the dominant role  in a particular scene (e.g., the person doing the rope work in shibari) doesn’t have anything to do with being muscular, square-jawed, male, or a confident leader type.

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mreid

@ryn2 I know all that, but you are avoiding the question yet again...

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ryn2
Just now, mreid said:

@ryn2 I know all that, but you are dodging the subject yet again...

Your question sounded - to me - as though you thought 1) BDSM is always D/s and 2) D roles require “alpha” characteristics.  Neither of those things is true.

 

I answered your question about whether I find specific male characteristics attractive in my previous post.  Your BDSM post does not change my prior answer.

 

What did I dodge?

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mreid

@ryn2 Ok.

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InquisitivePhilosopher

This Psychology Today article (about whether or not "alpha" males are a myth), adds a caveat that, while certain traits that others might label as "alpha" might attract more people in dating and relationships, it's not a universal truth across all cultures around the world, nor for everyone.

 

(emphasis not mine, but the authors')

Quote

...There's a curious caveat, however—although height is linked to mate preferences in the West, studies have revealed that a desire for tall men is not a cross-cultural universal... 

It makes sense, as, also (unlike Western societies), introverted and shy partners are considered more attractive in finding dating and/or marriage partners in Asian countries.

 

(from https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/thrive/201205/are-extroverts-happier-introverts)

 

Quote

...Many Western cultures tend to favor extroverted personalities, people who act quickly, appear friendly and are outgoing. Introverts often feel pressure to be extroverts, which can lead to anxiety or lowered self-esteem. A majority of Eastern cultures tend to encourage people who are more contemplative, quiet and appear serene...

 

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mreid

@InquisitivePhilosopher You are talking about what types of men are considered marriage material or long-term relationship material. This does not necessarily (and often doesn't) imply sexual attractiveness. Alpha males are known for not being very faithful or reliable, in general.

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gaogao
On 10/21/2018 at 6:33 AM, uhtred said:

Someone who want to spend their life at home does need someone to support them, or have a lot of previous money from some source, whatever their genders. 

Yes of course, but I'm saying the type of person I'm attracted to usually also wants to spend their life at home, and that sort of personality is something that attracts me to them - whether that's feasible or realistic is a moot point when it comes to fantasy.

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gaogao
On 10/20/2018 at 11:49 AM, FictoCannibal. said:

You won't get in trouble by a mod if someone reports you for politely disagreeing with them. It's only actual breaches of ToS that get you in trouble, so don't worry!

Yes. I've politely disagreed with a lot of people and I've never got in trouble with the mods. 

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mreid

@gaogao Good for you.

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uhtred

In addition to alpha males not being well defined in my opinion,  I know that there are women  who are not at all attracted to the classic dominant muscular male type.  One woman I knew hung around and dated guys at a "nerd" college (and I use that term as a proud nerd myself).  She was really attracted to nerds ( which was fine by me -)(😉)   

 

As a hetero guy, I'm not attracted to tall blond big-breasted women. I tend to like medium height / build, short-haired (dark or red)  sort of athletic-looking women, though I do find many women attractive.  Other men and women are into a wide variety of body types and styles.  

 

I'd far rather date an astrophysicist than a super-model. 

 

Similarly while some women are attracted to muscular tall firemen, others might be more interested in musicians, or philosophers, or even...physicists.

 

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
On 10/23/2018 at 9:20 AM, uhtred said:

I know that there are women  who are not at all attracted to the classic dominant muscular male type.  One woman I knew hung around and dated guys at a "nerd" college (and I use that term as a proud nerd myself).  She was really attracted to nerds ( which was fine by me -)(😉)   

Hah, was that woman me?? Lol jokes, but yeah, I like to eat nerds alive >;3

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
On 10/23/2018 at 5:43 AM, mreid said:

 

@ryn2 as a heterosexual woman, do you find tall, muscular guys with chiseled jaws and a confident attitude attractive? Confident leader types?

I wouldn't say I'm entirely hetero (it's complicated), but this is what my ideal man is like if I were to seek another relationship:

 

 

(Yes he's over 18 lol, no one freak out)

 

I love nerdy, awkward, intelligent, shy, kind, sweet, funny, well spoken men. Men who certainly aren't masculine, they're just somewhere in between.. and I'm certainly not the only female who feels that way!

 

No, in a relationship I'm not dominant (or bossy, or grumpy). Mainly I just like having a best friend to be silly with and talk with and have adventures with, while yes intimately I am into kink and would prefer that to any kind of 'regular' sex. My ex (we only broke up because of distance, but we're still good friends) is like the guy above (nerdy, awkward, clever), and he's the kinkiest person I've ever met in life. In a relationship I like an equal ground where neither is the boss (just like in a friendship). I like sweetness, kindness, and total openness with each other. Neither person has to be the breadwinner, whoever it is that's earning money can be that person, if both are earning money then awesome. If neither are - we'll make do (and I get family tax credits like every other person in NZ with kids so I'll always be able to put food on the table regardless, just in case we both happen to be jobless for a time). 

 

Oh also, despite being 'in-between' genderwise, I do like to LOOK very feminine for my guy, it feels nice being curvy and pretty and knowing that makes him want me.

 

 

Like @ryn2 said, you don't have to have a dominant and submissive mixture of personalities in a relationship to enjoy kink and/or BDSM. You can switch roles, and even the most feminine, nerdy, shy, awkward of personalities can do filthy things if that's what he or she is into. It's just a part of the fun two people can have together if they both enjoy that kind of thing, regardless of their personality types. 

 

Image result for alex lawther gif

 

^physical perfection ^_^

 

 

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uhtred
2 hours ago, FictoCannibal. said:

Hah, was that woman me?? Lol jokes, but yeah, I like to eat nerds alive >;3

One never knows online.  But if it was, let me say that that brief relationship remains a purely happy memory for me. 😊  Its the only time I've had someone actually desire me in that way.  My wife loves me, she really does, but she has never wanted to just grab me, tear my clothes off and have her way with me, nor wanted me to do that to her. 

 

I'm also into nerd-women. I mean how can someone not get excited about colliding neutron stars. 

 

 

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 hours ago, uhtred said:

I mean how can someone not get excited about colliding neutron stars.

Hah that's actually the type of sentence that would get me going. A man could actually grab my attention and make me want to know more about him by telling me all about colliding neutron stars (anything space). Sadly (for the guys, lol) it's not something many men think to bring up when trying to chat me up so they don't get anywhere :P Then of course the type of guy who does know about neutron stars (and who I would be attracted to) would be too shy to chat me up in the first place, so it's kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation, hah.

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uhtred
1 hour ago, FictoCannibal. said:

Hah that's actually the type of sentence that would get me going. A man could actually grab my attention and make me want to know more about him by telling me all about colliding neutron stars (anything space). Sadly (for the guys, lol) it's not something many men think to bring up when trying to chat me up so they don't get anywhere :P Then of course the type of guy who does know about neutron stars (and who I would be attracted to) would be too shy to chat me up in the first place, so it's kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation, hah.

Then you have to start the conversation 🙂.   I'm self-biased of course but I think a lot of nerds would be great partners - they are just a bit shy to start with and are alone until someone talks to them and realizes how great they are.  (not all nerds of course, but some).  So  TALK TO THEM.  After all how often do people try "say, are you an astrophysicist" as a pickup line? 

 

As I've gotten older, I've learned how easy it is to talk to people, when I was young it seemed impossible. Then I watched a good college friend of mine  who would  just start up random conversations waiting in line - and I learned to do the same.    Almost no one is offended by a polite start to a conversation as long as you don't push it if they aren't interested.  

 

BTW - I was thinking of the neutron star collision the LIGO gravity wave detector spotted last year - along with optical telescopes.   To me the motion of insanely dense matter (a spoon full weighs more than a mountain), some of it not even neutrons anymore, but more like quark soup, sort of splashing against other matter at near light speed is mind boggling.   I can't really wrap my brain around a material that has a speed of sound that is a good fraction of light speed.  Shock waves where you can go from neutronium to quark matter in the pressure peaks. I'm absolutely amazed that any of that can be modeled, but it can.  

 

um..where was I....

 

 

 

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