[ace cis-females] Thoughts on "Alpha male" type guys?

[Prufrock, but like, worse]

1 hour ago, mreid said:

I challenge anyone to take this logic apart and prove this thread's main premise wrong.

I'll bite, why not.

 

2 hours ago, mreid said:

The basis of this thread is femininity is attracted to masculinity and vice versa.

You have yet to prove this in any way. You have failed to account for the possibility that there can be other conceptions of masculinity/femininity that are so qualitatively different from the stereotypes you are using that it is impossible to compare which one is "manlier"/"womanlier", or that someone may be attracted solely certain subsets of one archetype or the other without being attracted to EVERYTHING the archetype encompasses. Your model does not in any way account for the existence of LGB or NB people, or the fact that people shy away from saying they are attracted to an attribute widely considered unattractive or antithetical to the gender they like because saying so can be socially punished.

 

2 hours ago, mreid said:

Then I go on to say that someone who is asexual must experience a weaker sexual attraction because they are not very attracted to either.

The very front page of this godforsaken website has the following to say on the matter.

 

Quote

An asexual person is a person who does not experience sexual attraction.

 

2 hours ago, mreid said:

How can they not be attracted to either? Because they must be ambiguous.

Here is that loss for words thing again. But allow me to present an alternative explanation:

Society is full of social narratives that say more or less what you are saying. "To find a partner, you must perform your gender in a stereotypical way." People who almost fit the bill eliminate whatever deviations they have. People who don't have their self-worth undermined. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You could conduct an anonymous survey of sexuals and you would find that approximately 0.00001% of them actually want to be the stereotypical version of their gender. The reason they do it is because they've been fed the lie that this is all that potential partners want, and are valuing fake-facade-companionship over being themselves because again the entire culture says this is what matters more, and that aligns with their feelings of attraction/horniness/loneliness/whatever and they go "this is what I must do to fulfill this need," and do it.

Aces don't feel that need. They think at most "oh, the consequence is never having sex? Boo hoo. I don't care." Or their lack of desire leads them to question assumptions like "everyone wants sex" and realize that a lot of popular wisdom about relationships are bullshit. They proceed to be themselves, which are not hyper-gendered. Not because sexuals are hyper-gendered, but because they don't feel the pressure to.

 

I note that all your anecdotes are based on overhearing women talking in a group. Have you tried talking to them one-on-one? The dynamics are entirely different what with less pressure to appear as normal as possible. This should go without saying but you seem to have difficulty grasping the astonishingly simple concept of "not everyone is attracted to the same thing" so I might as well explicitly state it.

 

3 hours ago, mreid said:

Think of a demagnetized magnet.

I have a ton of demagnetized magnets. I keep them next to the dehydrated water.

A demagnetized magnet is just a piece of metal. With no attraction. A magnet attracts demagnetized metal because metal is not a person and can't set boundaries and also magnetism and sexual attraction are separate things.

Also within your metaphor this would mean that everyone has masculinity and femininity in them in equal measure, since a magnetic monopole doesn't exist.

Disproving the metaphor doesn't disprove the argument but the metaphor doesn't prove the argument either. It's just kind of a crap metaphor that backfires on itself.

[Sally]

4 hours ago, mreid said:

How do I know my generalization is true?

One of the things that AVEN discourages is generalizing about any group  of human beings, because it can stem from (and encourage) stereotypes.   

[LeChat]

2 hours ago, mreid said:

@ryn2 I'm upfront with what I am doing, I think. I think that people post on my threads because they find them interesting and because they might help them understand themselves better, which is how I personally feel as well.

I was trying to help because you sounded as though you were a lot younger than me; because I was bothered by the fact you were quoting Freud's Oedipus theory, saying that children who were (TW)

Spoiler

sexually abused were attracted to their parents, even though psychologists and therapists who listen and treat clients who were sexually assaulted/abused and clients themselves have said they never were sexually attracted to their parents;

 

and because as a gender-nonconforming person who's grown up having some youth laugh and ask each other whether I was either a lesbian or say that they thought I was male and who had an adult woman angrily tell me to use the boy's restroom because she thought my short hair meant I was a boy (despite hearing my voice and my brightly-colored shirts) and who still occasionally hears neighborhood kids tell their parents or friends that I'm a "boy," while others say I'm a "girl," I thought it'd be important to speak up and let other cis people like yourself know that your assumptions and judgements about people whom you don't even know are hurtful to others, since, apparently, some young teens and young adults in their 20s aren't aware of how their judgements, assumptions and/or laughter about others' gender or sexuality feels hurtful to those they're judging, without even knowing them or listening to their experiences.

 

Their assumptions about me, due to their lack of education and awareness of gender non-conforming people who were different from themselves, deciding to make stereotypical judgements just based on my looks or clothes really hurt and confused me as a kid and teen because I didn't know about gender-nonconforming people or that it was normal or okay to be different from others' stereotypes, as I wasn't taught about it in school and didn't hear anyone discuss it in real life, and because of their judgements, I suddenly was worried and confused about whether their judgements were right about me or not (because I didn't feel gay or attracted to anyone, as a teen, and I didn't feel as though others using male pronouns felt right for me, either). But I've since learned, from other therapists' advice, online, that it's important to listen to yourself, not what others judge you or believe you to be.

 

I did give you that article from the psychologist, in your trans thread, who said that peoples' dreams don't necessarily mean that they want to act them out in real life because, according to your threads that were trying to dissect cis, trans, non-binary people according to their dreams when trans and non-binary people on Reddit--who were already asked that question--pointed that they don't all dream the same dreams, in the same way.

 

I was only speaking up for myself and others who weren't/don't fit into the stereotypical boxes you seem to be putting others into; it's not right, when others don't agree to that or when you label them according to your own stereotypes, based on peoples' gender or sexual orientation, when they say they don't feel that way at all or fit into them. I don't understand why you seem to feel you know others better than they know themselves, even though they repeatedly try to explain to you that they don't fit into your assumptions or labels that you're trying to label them as.

[RoseGoesToYale]

28 minutes ago, mreid said:

I am talking about biological notions of male and female. They are objective, observable things.

What about intersex? Some instances of intersex are readily observable outside the body, others are inside and can't be observed without scans/surgery and are sometimes never noticed. A person could go their entire life being taught they are XYZ and raised as XYZ only to discover decades later that nope, they're actually intersex. At birth, the doctor makes a subjective determination of what type of genitals a baby has based on certain physical cues that have been categorized by other humans. There's no unbiased scanner you can stick a baby in and get a printout that says "75.4% Male, 24.6% Female". No such scanner will ever exist, because it's impossible to determine whether this precise body body part is precisely too short to be male or too prominent to be female. Said body parts come from the same masses of cells in the womb. If such a scanner did exist? Everything we thought was true about sex and gender would be shattered.

 

Once the doctor has made a determination, they tell the parents, e.g "It's a girl!", and it doesn't matter how progressive the parents are (to this point in time at least), but all the preconceived notions, observations of, and attitudes toward girl-ness immediately flood their minds. It's not their conscious doing... they've been raised in a sexed and gendered society that tells them what "biologically female" amounts to. And even still, there's a 99% chance the parents holding their newborn girl are thinking "she's going to grow up, have a successful career, marry a successful man, and give birth to beautiful children." It's still not assumed that she'll "grow up, have a successful career, and marry a beautiful woman" or "grow up, have a successful career and be happily single." Because heterosexuality propagates the species. Society still reinforces the male-vs-female concept of sex and the heterosexual stereotyping of personalities and relationships out of an extremely irrational fear that doing otherwise will eradicate reproductive sex and the species will die out.

 

(Which is bogus. We're at 7.7 Billion and climbing...)

 

An intersex person could be attracted to anyone, or no one, regardless of whether femininity and masculinity exist. ANY person could be attracted to ANYONE, or no one, and who knows why? It isn't because biology, or even society, told them so.

[Sally]

40 minutes ago, mreid said:

I believe in Freudian psychoanalysis, which states that dreams do have meaning. It's my personal belief, and I made those threads accordingly to it. 

Perhaps you should have stated that to begin with in this thread, because that covers a lot more territory than dream investigation.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

I was trying to help because you sounded as though you were a lot younger than me

I think that may be the crux of the issue in all these recent threads. We have a very young asexual person who thinks they have life all figured out and wants to educate the world. We've probably all been a bit harsh on mreid given this fact. It's the sort of thing one looks back on when they're older and says ''oooooh God, was I really going around saying that stuff?'' I'm sure almost all of us have been there at some point or another and mreid will get there at some point too 

[Prufrock, but like, worse]

1 hour ago, mreid said:

Sexual dimorphism, hormones, mating rituals of many different species, etc...

Androgynous people don't exist and human mating rituals don't differ between cultures. Got it.

I don't know what bearing non-human sexual behaviors have on a discussion of human sexuality. But I suppose it does make sense now why you would say everyone is lying about their own experiences and the diversity of extant preferences if you believe human society is no more complex than, like, fish society.

 

1 hour ago, mreid said:

I am talking about biological notions of male and female. They are objective, observable things.

No you are not. You are talking about cultural notions of masculinity and femininity. You have been for the entire thread. The link with physical sex is largely tenuous, and what we call physical sex is waaaaaay more complex than most people realize (Rose explained it above better than I could have.)

 

1 hour ago, mreid said:

Proof?

lol

 

1 hour ago, mreid said:

That doesn't really explain anything.

I think you're just trolling or being intentionally dense at this point.

Society says be X to get Y.

People who want Y act like X.

People who do not want Y don't see the point, and act less like X because X is unnatural for the vast majority of people.

 

1 hour ago, mreid said:

Yes, I have.

And not a single one of them said "I hate putting up this facade?" How large of a sample size are we even talking here?

 

1 hour ago, mreid said:

No, but I think most people experience attraction similarly, as most people are hetero. (which doesn't invalidate other orientations, just stating a fact)

 

1 hour ago, mreid said:

It's not a social narrative, it's biology. Attraction is a physical, reptile-brain thing. Social narratives don't change it at its core.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

You'd be surprised how varied the reptile brain is. I have been told with wide-eyed earnestness "I could not have come up with something weirder than your fetish if I tried" and I'm a weird ace-adjacent thingamabob.

You have a very simplistic understanding of psychology... we absolutely absorb the things in our society at a young age and then later conceive of them as "universal human nature." It's nigh impossible to root through desires and figure out what is innate and what is received. And there is absolutely pressure to claim to be attracted to the "right" thing! You're doing it here in this thread when you say that people whose own desires don't match up to your theory don't count for whatever reason. This pressure can turn into a relationship one doesn't like just to fit in, which is garbage!

2 hours ago, mreid said:

I think that is tragic. I also think though that it's not culture alone that enforces that, I think it's just that most people naturaly, biologically fit into heteronormativity and the majority always pushes its preferences onto everyone else.

1. "Most people are heterosexual" is not what heteronormativity means. Heteronormativity is social pressure to be straight and to force everything that isn't straight into extremely conventionally straight and gender-binarist paradigms. Like asking a gay couple "which one of you is the woman in the relationship?" Heteronormativity is literally what you're doing in this thread.

2. The majority does not need to do this. There is literally nothing preventing them from not doing it. They can stop being dicks. (one could also argue that "don't be a dick" is unfairly putting the onus to fix systemic problems on individuals who for the most part are neither themselves dicks nor in a position to influence those who are being dicks, insert "I could make this about the problems in capitalism but it's already a meme for me to derail unrelated threads to dis capitalism and other people have made the same argument better first" here)

 

2 hours ago, mreid said:

Because men and women are biologically different it's usually easier for one gender to do certain tasks and for the other to do others so I think whoever runs society decided that it would be more efficient to make the genders specialize, which enforced heteronormativity to a degree that goes beyond what is natural. Nowadays a lot of that has eroded, but heteronormativity still exists and has always existed on a biological level. It's not completely a social construct, I think.

[extremely davis aurini voice] WOMEN BLEED ON THE BIRTHING BED, MEN BLEED ON THE BATTLEFIELD

"It is bad right now" is not an excuse. Things can be good. You arguing with anyone who contradicts your narrow view of what's attractive actively prevents the situation from becoming more permissive.

 

2 hours ago, mreid said:

I don't know if it's in equal measure or not, but I do think that everyone has a masculine and feminine side and depending on your assigned gender society tends to force people to repress one of them for the sake of heteronormativity. Most people though may naturally tend to one side more than to the other.

And elsewhere in this thread you not-so-subtly implied that this repression is good because it's the only way to attract a partner.

 

2 hours ago, mreid said:

If a magnet had one of its poles covered with some kind of isolating duct tape then that magnet would only be "attracted" to the opposite pole of other magnets.

You tread beyond the reach of reality!

 

[ryn2]

15 minutes ago, mreid said:

Most people are not born intersex, they are clearly either physically male or female at birth.

Nearly 2x as many as are asexual, though...

 

...and that’s only counting visible intersex genitalia and intersex conditions that interfere with childbearing.  There are an unknown additional number of people out there who are genetically intersex.

[ryn2]

22 minutes ago, mreid said:

None that I can remember. I have actually asked them about it. Most just seem to take pride in it and derive enjoyment from it for the most part, although they secretly resent it when it doesn't work out so well (ie when they get older, or are not attractive enough).

How do you know they secretly resent it when you’ve asked them about it and and they haven’t admitted resenting it?

[HurricaneKitty]

1. How do you feel about them?

the same as i feel about the stereotypical/movie-like "popular girls". my first impression of them is just shallow, i feel like they only care about their appearance, but all of the few times someone like that comes to talk to me, they're usually pleasant people.

2. Experiences with them?

have been neutral to positive

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

i consider myself to be a naturally submissive girl anyways, so as long as they are not treating me like i'm inferior to them, it's all great.

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

i don't really think so... maybe i'm a bit colder then the typical super-romantic feminine girl.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, mreid said:

And it doesn't explain anything because I am trying to figure out why some people want sex and others don't,

 That's completely separate from who people are attracted to though. We have asexual girls here who love a big mascular man, men who love strong women, feminine girls who love a nerdy feminine type guy, and everything in between. Many asexuals are still attracted to specific people even though they don't want sex at all. So WHO people are attracted to has no bearing on why people in general want sex.

 

Asexuals are clearly just wired differently. Whatever it is that makes sexual people love and desire sex, asexuals don't have that.. despite the fact that asexuals are just as capable of being attracted to specific types of people as sexuals are.

 

Look into the asexual ram studies.. even when injected with high amounts of sex hormones asexual rams still don't want sex. Whereas the sexual rams still wanted sex even after being chemically castrated. It's because their brains are wired differently and has nothing to do with the hormones in one's body or who one is biologically drawn to. (Heterosexual rams still wanted sex with ewes even after chemical castration, gay rams still wanted sex with other rams after castration, and asexual rams just wanted to eat grass no matter how horny they were made through the injection of high doses of sex hormones).

[Guest]

No one is attractive, everyone's a loser.

[Prufrock, but like, worse]

I'm convinced mreid is either a fascist or a fascist enabler. I don't have the patience for this thread anymore but I'll leave you with this:

 

The perspectives of AVENites are automatically going to be more representative than whatever localized survey you do, because you have people answering from all over the world and from all walks of life.

 

SCIENTISTS ARE NOT WIZARDS. Scientific understandings of reality are still going to be filtered through the scientists' subjectivity and individual cultural backgrounds because THAT IS HOW HUMAN BEINGS WORK. It is absolutely impossible to be unbiased and the best any of us can do is hold all of our preconceived notions up to scrutiny when they are challenged.

 

However, you seem convinced that not only are people terrible, they can never not be terrible. The majority can stop saying "my way or the highway." They can stop. It is literally a choice. You refuse to see the potential for the world to change in any way, or for your preexisting beliefs to be wrong. So further conversation is useless. Goodbye.

[Guest]

On 10/2/2018 at 3:08 AM, mreid said:

I looked into it. How does it disprove anything I have been saying on this thread? 

You were saying you want to find out why people want sex. Who people are attracted to is a completely different topic, end of. 

 

Everything you have said you know about sexuality in this thread though has now been discredited by you, since you admitted not knowing if a girl could get pregnant from having a shower alone. There's no point in anyone continuing these discussions with you until you get a bit more knowledge of basic human sexuality.. Maybe come back to these more complicated topics in a few years time?

[Sally]

On 9/30/2018 at 11:19 AM, mreid said:

Sexual attraction is necessarily a biological thing. 

 

, , ,

 

 I am trying to figure out why some people want sex and others don't

 

According to you, it's biology, no?  Biology is not a global thing, it's an individual thing.  So why the questioning?  

[Chloe88]

Here's my bit....

 

1. How do you feel about them?

 

I'm not keen on them. They're boring as they've got everything worked out and sorted.

 

2. Experiences with them?

 

If I'm honest, not much but I've seen enough indirectly

 

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

 

I actually like dickheads and assholes as life with them is likely to be far more interesting and exciting!

 

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

 

No

[Chloe88]

@mreid not at all. 

I'm not into alpha types as they're predictable and unexciting. So I like the opposite, that is dickheads and assholes as they're spontaneous and far more exciting as people.

[Sea Lemon]

My answers, because I'm procrastinating:

 

1. How do you feel about them?

  

 Not a fan, generally.

 

2. Experiences with them?

 

There's quite a few self-proclaimed "alpha males" at one of the churches I go to. I don't have a lot of time for them really - I find many of them quite arrogant.

 

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

 

Doesn't appeal to me whatsoever, it sounds suffocating and infantilising - I don't need to be looked after like a child or a pet or some kind of ornament. If I ever have another relationship again, it's mutually respectful and mutually supportive, or not at all. 

 

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

 

Not especially, but then again I don't really know what exactly constitutes a 'masculine' or 'feminine' personality. 

[Guest]

It seems that the vast majority of women who have responded here are not interested in alpha males. I guess that disproves your theory @mreid?

[Starlit Sky]

On 9/12/2018 at 11:50 PM, mreid said:

 

My questions:

1. How do you feel about them?

2. Experiences with them?

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

To be very clear, I don't believe that the description given is a true alpha male at all (and I know that you did mention that there are other "types," but I'm just talking about what I believe here, and my answers to the questions will be based on that belief). To me, an alpha male is someone who identifies as male, is very self-confident, and goes after what they want. It doesn't mean that they're buff and go to the gym, that they're rich CEOs, that they're Mr. Grey's, or anything else. It's merely about the confidence, and I honestly don't believe that the kind of person you described is an alpha male at all. But that's my opinion

 

1. How do you feel about them?

 

for my description: Confidence is AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALWAYS amazing, and the kind of person I describe as being an alpha male is 100% my type. I want someone who is confident, I want someone who knows what they want, and I want someone who is willing to go after what they want, and isn't willing to give up easily.

 

for your description: To be very blunt, little boys who want to be patriarchal are, in my experience, not at all very confident.  xD They're insecure as all H-E-double hockey sticks, and are terrified of strong, independent women and / or partners.

 

2. Experiences with them?

 

for my description: The first person I ever fell in love with described himself as an alpha male. He was also a kick-ass intersectional feminist and, if I'm being honest, is the reason I'm as confident as I am today (not because he came along and made me feel confident, but because after we stopped talking I realized exactly how awesome I am).

 

for your description: The only time I've had the displeasure of being around them has been when they're bullies, either in real life or on social media.

 

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

 

for my description: Not applicable ❤️

 

for your description: I don't need anyone to take care of me or save me. While I believe that there is nothing wrong with being a housewife (and, in extension, nothing wrong with a man whose wife is a housewife), it's not for me. Guys generally like to feel like the provider and, again, I don't have a real problem with that--as long as a guy doesn't prevent me from providing, too.

 

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

 

I am an expression of the goddess--and the god.

 

In layman's terms, I am a whole lot more "feminine" than "masculine," and I celebrate that. I have no problem with that, and I think it's extremely important to remember that feminine =/= weak, insecure, and whatever else. Female energy can stand mostly on its own, just as male energy can stand mostly on its own--but at the end of the day, they need one another in some way or another.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, mreid said:

It doesn't, because they have also responded that they are, in general, not very feminine personality-wise. That was my theory, and this thread proves it for the most part.

Do you realise that's because the majority of women aren't girly girls?? It's not just some coincidence that no one here is 'very feminine' personality wise,  it's just that you're focussing on stereotypes that don't really exist outside of a small minority of people. Yes, there are a small amount of girly girls out there with self-esteem issues drawn to the type of 'alpha male' you outlined in your OP.. but they're an exception to the norm. Yet you're acting like they're the normal ones and it's just some weird coincidence that all the cis women who have responded here aren't these black-and-white caricatures of Pamela Andersen-type girls who want a muscley bad boy to look after them. 

 

You get that most people aren't hardcore feminine or hardcore masculine though, right? Most people, regardless of gender, exist somewhere in between those two extremes. 

[Chimeric]

On 9/29/2018 at 11:31 AM, mreid said:

I challenge anyone to take this logic apart and prove this thread's main premise wrong.

The thread's main premise is based on a poorly defined concept of "alpha maleness" that doesn't actually present in human society beyond books, movies, and TV shows (which is what I was trying to say nicely in my first response). If your logic is based off of fiction, is it really logic?

[daveb]

TedX talk about alpha males in the animal world by Frans de Waal

 

[ryn2]

5 hours ago, mreid said:

Bottom line is... it all amounts to the same thing in the end, alpha males, alpha females, bullies, etc... just different versions of chimps.

 

 

What would your ideal human society look like?

[ryn2]

6 minutes ago, mreid said:

In terms of leadership it's not even a rational decision about who is actually better suited to be a leader, it's all about who is better at playing social games. 

Yes, this is very common...

 

A lot of people want to be led, though, and might not support being left to their own devices.

[gaogao]

On 9/13/2018 at 5:50 AM, mreid said:

1. How do you feel about them?

2. Experiences with them?

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

 

So i've been sort of eye-ing this thread for a bit and while i'm loathe to jump in on the bs because this thing is a mess already, i'm bored so i'll put in my two cents in answering the questions:

 

1. i think they are gross.

2. they have been bad experiences.

3. good god no. i like being taken care of and playing a feminine role, but I also want to take care of my partner without threatening their sense of self.

4. i'm the girliest girly girl thank you very much.

 

I consider myself pretty stereotypically feminine in every way. I consider myself an asexual girly girl.

 

Asexuality aside, I like girls and I am attracted to femininity. Masculinity isn't inherently toxic but the way our culture perceives masculinity is so harmful ... and im sure it has its appeal but either way I have no attraction to it at all and never have. When I was little I was not interested in princes, I just wanted to be a princess. IMO. and more than one princess is better.

 

I like girls who are gentle and cute. I like girls who can take care of me and who I can take care of in return in an equal relationship. "Alpha Males" in my experience feel threatened by girly girls who want to make decisions on their own or who know more than they do about things. It confuses them. And while I am a girly girl I am also a very capable woman and I don't like to be patronized. I do not think this is a masculine trait.

 

Perhaps you'll chalk me up as an anomaly, which is fine, but I exist. I'm asexual, very girly and am not interested in any men in the slightest. I'm not sexually attracted to anyone, but my ideal companion is a woman who shares my interests and life outlook, which I identify as feminine as all hell. I don't believe that asexuality is necessarily an androgynous thing, because that hasn't been my experience, but you can take this evidence as you like.

[gaogao]

@mreid I believe I'm using the western cultural assumptions of masculinity and femininity. What are your definitions? 

[gaogao]

@mreid do they not? I have not read all 6 pages of this thread but as far as I understand you have used the culturally "feminine" traits in western society - which are that women are more passive, preter to not seek conflict, like to pay attention to their looks, like to be taken care of, enjoy pink princesses, are good with children, are motherly, would like to be housewives, prefer to be in the home etc. 

 

All of these things describe me perfectly.  I take a lot of care of my looks. I invest in makeup and cute clothes and enjoy branded items. I like to be taken care of in a respectful way. While I would love to be a housewife I cannot because of the current economic situation and because of my preferences in partners where women earn less, and I cannot be a mother because I'm uninterested in sex and the idea of childbirth is frightening to me. I am very good with children though and I like the idea of taking care of my partner in a caring or motherly way.  I love pink and do not like conflict and am quite a passive and gentle person.

 

As far as I understand, the culturally "masculine" traits you are using are that men are decisive, strong, work hard as a breadwinner, like cars and sports and are more prone to conflict, among other things. These are very simplistic stereotypes but I understand they are what you see in alpha males. 

 

Im uninterested in people who seek out conflict or violence or think they are better than others. I don't care about cars or sports or strength, and while hard work is good I would prefer someone who is also more interested in life at home and who will consult me in making decisions as well instead of just making them right away for me because they think they know better. I like people who enjoy gentle "feminine" things. Just like me. I value someone who cares about her looks and puts effort into her appearance. I mean... like, I do want to share clothes and makeup. When you date a girl with similar fashion sense you get to double your wardrobe after all. 😛 

[Alejandrogynous]

26 minutes ago, mreid said:

@gaogao i already showed my definitions throughout this thread. I was just looking for clarification of yours, as they dont seem to match mine.

Maybe you could clarify where you see differences, since @gaogao's responses made perfect sense to me and this is a long thread to go through looking for snippits of your definitions. 

 

EDIT: Ah, nevermind, lol. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, gaogao said:

Perhaps you'll chalk me up as an anomaly,

Not one person who has responded (to any of Mreid's threads) has slotted neatly into Mreid's little theories, but no matter how much time you take to explain and to clarify you won't be taken seriously by her unless you twist your experience to match her theories.

 

The reason this thread is so long is because people have gone to incredible amounts of effort to try to clarify to Mreid that she's feeding into stereotypes that your average person just doesn't adhere to (even you who do match in many ways her ideas of feminine, you still don't slot into her theory). We've been using our own examples from our own preferences as you have here and one would think is impossible to argue with people's personal experience??. But if you don't fit into the box that she has created you're just going to be argued with and dismissed. It's not just in this thread, she's done it in every thread she's created over the past month and the threads she's barged into as well. It doesn't matter how respectful or patient you are with your responses, she'll honestly just end up ignoring you or only giving short, mocking responses if you won't twist your ideas of your own preferences to match hers.

 

In short, what I'm saying is it's really not worth engaging with her because you're only going to end up frustrated and wasting a LOT of time typing things that she's just going to dismiss. My last response from her to something I went to a lot of effort to type was "blah blah", quite literally Y_Y. So yeah, just a heads up, it's not worth it.