mreid

[ace cis-females] Thoughts on "Alpha male" type guys?

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mreid

When you are told "You just haven't met the right guy." usually the type of guy that's being refered to is this type.

 

There are many alpha male types and not all necessarily sociopathic or domineering, but for the sake of this discussion let's consider the buff gym guy, domineering Mr Grey types, the popular jock stereotype and "patriarchal" types. Basically stereotypical alpha male types.

 

I am trying to find out how the ace cis-females feel towards men who usually like to be the dominant one in the relationship in the traditional "patriarchal" way, in that the women they are with are expect to behave in a more passive stereotypically feminine way.

 

My questions:

1. How do you feel about them?

2. Experiences with them?

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

 

As for myself:

1. Never been attracted to them, never found them particularly relatable. I always found them mostly too loud and domineering for my liking, so I usually avoid them.

2. Moved in different circles in school and never interacted much. I have an uncle who fits the "patriarchal" stereotype. We don't get along very well, and I always found him over-bearing and obnoxious. Had an older classmate of that type in 5th or 6th grade. We disliked each other.

3. Never found that appealing.

4. Personality-wise, I was always a bit more masculine than feminine, but not too much.

 

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CBC

I don't anticipate that asexual cis women (and presumably you also mean heteroromantic ones) will differ vastly from their heterosexual cis female counterparts. It seems like something that's more a matter of personality than whether one desires sex.

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FictoVore.
3 hours ago, mreid said:

When you are told "You just haven't met the right guy." usually the type of guy that's being refered to is this type.

No, 'alpha male' types are not the type of guy being referred to when someone says "you just haven't met the right guy yet". I'm not sure where you got that idea. What's being referred to is the fact that you just haven't yet met someone you like enough that you desire sexual intimacy with them - that could be any type of guy. 

 

Obviously for an ace, it doesn't matter how much they like someone - they still won't want sex with them. But I've seen on AVEN literally hundreds of times (and it happened to me too) people coming here assuming they're ace, then meeting the 'right person' or developing the right kind of bond with someone and realizing that under come circumstances they can in fact desire sexual intimacy. It's actually very common around here.

 

But yeah, it's nothing to do with alpha males.

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TheAP

I probably wouldn't be attracted to such a person. I prefer people who are sensitive and not afraid to show weakness. I wouldn't want to be dominated over in a relationship. I would prefer an equal, give-and-take relationship where I could be myself. And no, I don't think I have a masculine personality.

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Marlow1

I am Demisexual and I am male and so I am not certain that anything that I am about to say here will apply to you

 

I am only attracted to my wife. I have never been attracted to anybody else either before we met not since. I have pondered on this a lot

 

When I speak to Allosexual people that experience instant attraction they say it happens something like this....

 

https://veilofreality.com/is-it-love-or-is-it-projection/

 

I never project, I can't, I have Aphantasia and I cannot look at a person and think I fancy you, and even if I like them a lot, even if I get on with them and like their personality, I still do not get attracted. I do not have a type, or types, in the way that Allosexuals speak. My wife, after getting to know her extremely well, over several years, eventually became my type, if that makes sense?

 

What was different with my wife was the situation.

 

My brother is married to my wife's best friend and this family connection meant that I was bumping into my then platonic friend over and over again.

 

Many of the settings in which we found ourselves in where either cosy or romantic, and we had many opportunities to get to know each other well. We also went on to have a long courtship where we became even more bonded

 

When a person has Aphantasia  some of us think in concepts, rather than words or pictures (please see my profile). In regards to my relationship with my wife I needed to feel comfortable in a lot of areas. This list here reflects some of them, it took a long time for my mind and heart to appreciate these factors, and then and only then could I become attracted

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201709/11-ways-predict-romantic-attraction

 

My story is long, it includes a brain hemhorrage where I forgot most of my past, and during this time I lost my attraction to my wife, and basically what we had to do was start over with the dating thing, and much more. We basically regrew together again. My previous posts go into detail about this

 

All I can tell you is our relationship is very loving but it is definitely different to the 'norm'. We face many challenges but coming here to AVEN and learning about the Ace Spectrum and so on has helped both of us develop a language where we can both understand each other a lot better. Communication is the key

 

 

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ryn2
9 hours ago, CBC said:

I don't anticipate that asexual cis women (and presumably you also mean heteroromantic ones) will differ vastly from their heterosexual cis female counterparts. It seems like something that's more a matter of personality than whether one desires sex.

Agreed.  Some people (ace or no, female or no) are drawn to people who fit these stereotypes and others are not.  I can see how choosing a stereotypically “alpha male” partner might affect the type of workable sexual compromise, but I doubt the actual draw is that different from ace to sexual.

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mreid
4 hours ago, TheAP said:

And no, I don't think I have a masculine personality.

Not necessarily a masculine personality, but a personality where you are more in touch with your masculine side, or where your feminine side is not very dominant. I think you mentioned on some thread on the Gender Discussion that you were agender? Maybe that's why you prefer more equal relationships. In an equal relationship there are no leaders or followers (which are the stereotypical roles of masculinity and feminility).

 

I'm like that too. Do you think it might be that our feminine side and our masculine side cancel out the sexual attraction?

 

13 hours ago, CBC said:

It seems like something that's more a matter of personality than whether one desires sex.

The personality could influence whether someone wants sex or not.

 

11 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

No, 'alpha male' types are not the type of guy being referred to when someone says "you just haven't met the right guy yet". I'm not sure where you got that idea. What's being referred to is the fact that you just haven't yet met someone you like enough that you desire sexual intimacy with them - that could be any type of guy. 

The women who told me that implied it was one of such guys.

 

11 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

But yeah, it's nothing to do with alpha males.

Yet, most women seem to be attracted to those types, or men woudn't feel the need to act in an alpha-male-ish way to seduce women.

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TheAP
2 minutes ago, mreid said:

Not necessarily a masculine personality, but a personality where you are more in touch with your masculine side, or where your feminine side is not very dominant. I think you mentioned on some thread on the Gender Discussion that you were agender? Maybe that's why you prefer more equal relationships. In an equal relationship there are no leaders or followers (which are the stereotypical roles of masculinity and feminility).

No, I'm female. That might have been another person with the same avatar as me.

 

I don't think I'm masculine. I don't put a lot of effort into my appearance, but I'm more feminine in personality (I'm very emotional and don't like conflict). I don't like gender stereotypes, though. I'm just me. I don't know if it relates to asexuality or not. There are a lot of factors at play.

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Tintinfan
11 hours ago, mreid said:

 

1. How do you feel about them?

2. Experiences with them?

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

1. If they don't try to take care of me I don't particularly mind.

2. Haven't had much experience. Years in an all girl's school will do that.

3. I would very ready get very irritated and want my freedom I feel.  And I hate being passive.

 

4. I think I have quite a masculine personality. Though not sure

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ryn2
32 minutes ago, mreid said:

Do you think it might be that our feminine side and our masculine side cancel out the sexual attraction?

It seems that would imply more masculine-behavior/personality-leaning women (and more feminine-behavior/personality-leaning men) would be ace, as compared to the general population.

 

Has anyone seen evidence that’s the case?

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Moon Spirit ☽

I always find it strange when people try to immediately shut something down. It seems like an attempt to dissuade people from answering.

 

1. How do you feel about them?

The males you're referring to are not what I would consider alpha males to be in reality; what domineering behavior signifies to me is someone who lacks self-control and therefore feels a need to exercise control over others, and sociopathy is a personality disorder. But I understand that most people share this misconception and so I will go along with your examples. What I have observed about the types of men I have associated with who are like this is that they tend to be incredibly vain, they have the personality of a robot, they're shallow, and they're bad relationship partners because they are abusive/immature/disloyal. They're not very well-suited to committed relationships because they really just want to sleep around with a ton of women to inflate their already massive egos.

2. Experiences with them?

I have a co-worker who fits the description above more or less. I figured him out pretty quickly and I mostly just avoid him, but I've heard my female co-workers complaining about him semi-often and I'm never surprised by what I hear.

3. How do you feel about the idea of being "taken care of" by such types, and playing a passive, stereotypically feminine role?

They're honestly too selfish to take care of another human being and I have zero interest in being controlled.

4. Do you think you might be a bit masculine personality-wise?

I can't really figure out if my personality is feminine and/or masculine because it's just too weird.

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mreid
3 hours ago, ryn2 said:

It seems that would imply more masculine-behavior/personality-leaning women (and more feminine-behavior/personality-leaning men) would be ace, as compared to the general population.

It's just a theory that I am testing. To me it just makes sense that that would be the case. I didn't say that they have to be necessarily masculine, I just said that they are probably not very feminine personality-wise. I am trying to understand the psychological appeal of sex because I never got it, and it seems to me that it might be something to do with the maleness and the femaleness of the participants (regardless of gender).

 

4 hours ago, TheAP said:

No, I'm female. That might have been another person with the same avatar as me.

I looked it up and there's indeed someone with the same avatar as yours who said that. My mistake.

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CBC
2 hours ago, mreid said:

The personality could influence whether someone wants sex or not.

'Asexual' isn't a personality type. You seem to want to discern if there's any difference between sexual and asexual cis women who are attracted to men, and 'sexual' and 'asexual' aren't personalities. At best there could be a very flimsy connection for a minority of people.

 

8 minutes ago, mreid said:

I am trying to understand the psychological appeal of sex because I never got it, and it seems to me that it might be something to do with the maleness and the femaleness of the participants (regardless of gender).

It doesn't. What evidence do you have that would support that, other than tired stereotypes? It just seems like you're going on the idea that typically masculine men and very feminine women want more sex.

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Marlow1

I am sorry I misread your question? I thought you were asking why it is that when folk tell you you need to find the right person and then they are telling you the type of person, or that you should have a type etc

 

My brain does not always function great and I do sometimes misread things

 

I think what you are actually meaning is why is there this stereotype. Why do some women have this stereotype Alpha Male thing going on where they themselves think if they get an Alpha Male they will have met the right person, and then they project that onto you. Am I getting this right more now?

 

This happens with guys too, we are expected to be sexually attracted to certain types of females. And when it does not happen we are regarded as a bit odd by some. But like I mentioned earlier, some of us just can't do that, we need the time it takes to get attracted, (and not necessarily to the stereotypical women we are told that we should be), and many other factors need to be in place, then we get attracted (This is only for Demisexuals and some other Grey Sexuals, Asexuals will never become sexually attracted)

 

I think the stereotypes in society that we are told we should be attracted to comes from the media. This changes over time, sometimes it Alpha male, sometimes it's the boy next door, and so on. With women the look can change, or we might be told to go for sweet, at another time assertive and so on

 

I only know this because we have covered it in therapy. In the past I really could not see this too well. Like I have mentioned it takes me forever and a day to get attracted, and it's next to impossible to know how or when etc, I really do not think it would happen again for me. But anyway, my point is I thought others were like me, but they are not. I build concepts, they project, and I do think a lot of people project with ideas that they have gotten from TV

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ryn2
34 minutes ago, mreid said:

It's just a theory that I am testing. To me it just makes sense that that would be the case. I didn't say that they have to be necessarily masculine, I just said that they are probably not very feminine personality-wise.

Understood.  I haven’t seen this play out with any consistency among people I’ve known.

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mreid
2 hours ago, CBC said:

'Asexual' isn't a personality type.

No, but people's preferences are influenced by their personalities. No, I don't think there is an asexual personality, but I think there might be something in the personality that might make someone more inclined to be asexual.

 

2 hours ago, CBC said:

It doesn't. What evidence do you have that would support that, other than tired stereotypes? It just seems like you're going on the idea that typically masculine men and very feminine women want more sex.

I'm just trying out different things, testing different theories... you can't deny though that there is always a "male energy" and a "female energy" in sexuality. I'm just wondering what would happen if you change the different amounts of those "energies" in different people. That should have an impact of their preferences, I think.

 

I also think that throughout history women were made to be more feminine and men more masculine to make them more compatible (just my theory). I mean, if you just look at fashion back in the "patriarchy" women's clothes were supposed to exagerate female traits and male's clothes to exagerate male traits. Hetero men usually find women wearing lingerie sexy, while hetero women usually find men wearing suits sexy. Someone who dresses in an ambiguous way usually gets overlooked by people in general, even more so if the person looks physically ambiguous. I just wonder if something similar could happen with a persons personality.

 

2 hours ago, Marlow1 said:

I am sorry I miss read your question? I thought you were asking why it is that when folk tell you you need to find the right person and then they are telling you the type of person, or that you should have a type etc

I just gave that as an example to show that the majority of women are attracted to these types, which is undeniable that they are. They don't specifically tell me it's this type, but they imply it and I know the women in question well enough to know that was what they meant.

 

I don't think these are just stereotypes... from what I observe there is definetly an attraction between these types and more feminine women. Women in general seem suprised other women don't seem to be head over heels, or at least impressed, with those types. They start thinking that you have to be a lesbian or that you must be weird in some way, or sexually repressed. I see the same thing happening with guys who are not into the feminine stereotype. I think the key idea here is that people assume you are sexually abnormal if you don't consider either of these types the most attractive people depending on your gender, which speaks for how common it is to be attracted to either.

 

I am not implying that people who deviate from the norm are broken or wrong in any way. It just pisses me off when other people try to shove their preferences down my throat. I have always seen both feminility and masculinity as equally oppressive in their own ways.

 

It's also a known thing in biology that the majority of women gravitate towards alpha male types for biological reasons.

 

2 hours ago, Marlow1 said:

I think the stereotypes in society that we are told we should be attracted to comes from the media. This changes over time, sometimes it Alpha male, sometimes it's the boy next door, and so on. With women the look can change

 

Yes, but in the end it always the same thing isn't it?

 

2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Understood.  I haven’t seen this play out with any consistency among people I’ve known.

I have.

 

 

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ryn2
6 minutes ago, mreid said:

I mean, if you just look at fashion back in the "patriarchy" women's clothes were supposed to exagerate female traits and male's clothes to exagerate male traits. Hetero men usually find women wearing lingerie sexy, while hetero women usually find men wearing suits sexy.

Most of these things were thought/intended to heighten the unconscious “reptile brain” cues that led to sexual attraction - youth, fertility, and a body designed for optimal childbearing in women; health, strength, and an ability to provide resources in men.

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ryn2
9 minutes ago, mreid said:

I have

Then your theory is more applicable to your cohort, location, and/or generation than it is to mine.

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ryn2
28 minutes ago, mreid said:

Women in general seem suprised other women don't seem to be head over heels, or at least impressed, with those types. They start thinking that you have to be a lesbian or that you must be weird in some way, or sexually repressed. I see the same thing happening with guys who are not into the feminine stereotype. I think the key idea here is that people assume you are sexually abnormal if you don't consider either of these types the most attractive people depending on your gender, which speaks for how common it is to be attracted to either.

I think it speaks more to the desire to conform to stereotypical social expectations (probably with some peer pressure leveraging homophobia).  In the US it’s much like how “everyone” loves (American) football.  It’s a way to feel part of a group, and a way to feel good about oneself by othering those who won’t play along.

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mreid
3 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Most of these things were thought/intended to heighten the unconscious “reptile brain” cues that led to sexual attraction - youth, fertility, and a body designed for optimal childbearing in women; health, strength, and an ability to provide resources in men.

In other words, heightening typical male characteristics in men leads to women being attracted to them, and heightening typical female characteristics in women leads to men being attracted to them. Aside from fashion there were all these expected behaviours for men and women that did the same things. So, I can conclude from this what typically masculine men and attracted to typically feminine women, and vice-versa. What about those who are not either typically masculine or feminine? What about more ambiguous people?

 

3 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Then your theory is more applicable to your cohort, location, and/or generation than it is to mine.

It's applicable to people in general. I am not the only one who observed this behaviour, and I know more cases of people who have also observed it than of people who didn't.

 

3 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I think it speaks more to the desire to conform to stereotypical social expectations (probably with some peer pressure leveraging homophobia).  In the US it’s much like how “everyone” loves (American) football.  It’s a way to feel part of a group, and a way to feel good about oneself by othering those who won’t play along.

I think it depends on whether people have natural inclinations for those things or not. In my country "everyone" loves soccer, I never did, never cared about it, and I know girls who pretend to like it because they are trying to impress some man. I have known girls who pretended to like videogames for the same reason.

Most men tend to be more masculine than feminine physically and psychologically, same thing with women and feminility, and so naturally and biologically, they are going to have an inclination for each other... the same way there are people who don't fit that norm and really just pretend to blend in.

 

About the american football and the soccer, I think that most men like it because it provides them an outlet for their masculinity, and most women who like it do so because I suppose they enjoy the masculine displays. I think these people genuinely like it. The fact that they do so for the same reasons in different countries with different sports only shows how common this sentiment is. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with those who don't feel that way, I'm just trying to show why I think there might be more to this than just an imposed stereotype.

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FictoVore.
6 hours ago, mreid said:

Not necessarily a masculine personality, but a personality where you are more in touch with your masculine side, or where your feminine side is not very dominant.

I've always been strongly against this stereotype because it just doesn't add up when you look at real life. There are many feminine women attracted to shy, gentle, caring guys. Only a certain type of woman with a certain type of personality is drawn to domineering gym buffs. Then look at lesbian couples where both might be quite feminine or quite masculine, gay couples where both men might be very feminine or very masculine.. There is so much variation in actual real life relationships when compared to the stereotype of extreme feminine always seeks extreme masculine and vice versa.

 

I personally am drawn to intelligence above all else, the ability to have an interesting conversation (even though that's usually restricted to fictional people) and for both men and women I find more feminine features incredibly attractive. I'm certainly not at all masculine though. I (like @TheAP) am drawn to and desire balance. Many people wish for balance in their relationships. Again, it's just a personality thing.

 

1 hour ago, mreid said:

In other words, heightening typical male characteristics in men leads to women being attracted to them, and heightening typical female characteristics in women leads to men being attracted to them

Only for a certain type of person though. Think how many women go crazy for, as one example, K-pop men - many of whom are more feminine than your average female. Many women LOVE sensitivity in men, and a super feminine appearance can give the impression of sensitivity, caring, friendliness etc.

 

3 hours ago, mreid said:

I am trying to understand the psychological appeal of sex because I never got it, and it seems to me that it might be something to do with the maleness and the femaleness of the participants (regardless of gender).

But wouldn't that mean that all asexuals are neutral gender-wise? Pretty much agender across the board? Because in my experience here there are many very feminine and very masculine asexual personality types, regardless of their bio gender.

 

6 hours ago, mreid said:

The personality could influence whether someone wants sex or not.

A personality can definitely influence how someone goes about getting sex, and whom they choose as a partner (some people love gym buffs, some love blonde bombshells, some love big curvy women, some love skinny nerdy guys, some love tall lanky women, etc). But I don't think your personality influences whether you are ace or not or else there would be no personality variation on AVEN (and I think we can all agree that the only similarity between almost everyone here is their lack of sexual interest in other people). I think being ace on the other hand could potentially affect aspects of your personality, an ace may be less likely to love speed dating, for example, because they'll be aware that everyone who is doing speed dating has sex as an objective. But even then, I'm sure there are aces who still partake.

 

 

 

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mreid
2 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

But I don't think your personality influences whether you are ace or not or else there would be no personality variation on AVEN (and I think we can all agree that the only similarity between almost everyone here is their lack of sexual interest in other people).

Mostly people in AVEN seem to be in the IN- range of the mbti. Could be just because those personalities are more common on web forums. But that gave me an idea. Do you know if a survey on the mbti of non-asexuals has ever been done on AVEN?

 

3 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

I (like @TheAP) am drawn to and desire balance.

If I remember right, you said before that you are attracted to shy, feminine, sensitive guys. Could it be that your personality is a bit more on the masculine side? Maybe you like to be the dominant one in the relationship?

 

And as for everything else you have said, I am talking in general terms. Most people are cis-hetero like I said to @ryn2 on another post.

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Sally
3 hours ago, mreid said:

No, but people's preferences are influenced by their personalities.

Your post is confusing.  Do you mean that people's orientations are influenced by their personalities?   Because when you are told "You just haven't  met the right guy/person yet", that's usually because you've announced that you are asexual.  Asexuality is an orientation, not a personality detail.  

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mreid
2 hours ago, Sally said:

Do you mean that people's orientations are influenced by their personalities?

Yes. Not just their orientations, but also their preferences within their orientations. I don't see why this is such a big mystery.

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CBC
18 minutes ago, mreid said:

Do you know if a survey on the mbti of non-asexuals has ever been done on AVEN?

Not specifically, no. And MBTI is pretty iffy, not something to take too seriously. For what it's worth though, I generally type as INTP and the only other non-asexual AVENite with whom I've discussed the topic of MBTI and know well enough to have a good grasp of their personality is, I believe, INFP. Neither of us is ace, but those are still two of the most common types amongst asexuals here as well.

 

Because, y'know, it's an internet forum.

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mreid

@CBC I'm INTP too. I might it a shot then, just to see if I get anything interesting.

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ryn2
1 hour ago, mreid said:

In other words, heightening typical male characteristics in men leads to women being attracted to them, and heightening typical female characteristics in women leads to men being attracted to them.

In a biological way, secondary sex characteristics are thought to be visual markers for potential reproductive success... same idea as babies coming prewired to prefer symmetrical facial features.

 

Our brains are capable of complex thought, though, so we apply all kind of things over top of our biology.  Other advanced species do as well.

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ryn2
35 minutes ago, mreid said:

Yes. Not just their orientations, but also their preferences within their orientations. I don't see why this is such a big mystery.

Because it doesn’t fit with what some of the posters here have observed over the course of living their lives.

 

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ryn2

I’m an INxP who is very close (48% v. 52%) to being an INxx.

 

Because, as others have said, internet.

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