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Sexual Wife/Asexual Husband - It's A Hard Life


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10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Can you see how to sexuals, the bottom line from a lot of asexuals seems like 'tough, deal with it, because I can't even work out if I'll make an effort', even though it's probably not what's in an asexual's head?

 

A bit like sexuals don't feel they're dumping someone just over sex, even if that's what it seems like to asexuals, I guess.

I don’t know.  The only asexuals I know (save one IRL friend who has sex all the time) are the ones who post here, and they don’t generally see themselves behaving the way the sexuals here describe their partners.  Whether that’s because none of us is very good at seeing the image we present to the world, or because you’re correct in saying it’s the people who want to help and be helped who come here, I don’t know.

 

I can’t even begin to sort out my own situation, let alone speak for people in general.

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15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is true, but it does make it hard to take seriously any insistence that asexuality is never anything to do with mental health issues, when there's such a common cross over.

I don’t know if there is a greater frequency of mental health issues in mismatched relationships than there is in the population at large, and even the research you mentioned yesterday didn’t really address the chicken-and-egg question.

 

Mental health challenges exacerbate relationship issues and vice versa.

 

I see a difference between the person who easily could do something but just doesn’t give a shit and chooses not to and the person who cares very much but is still at war with personal demons.  You don’t, because the thing still doesn’t get done.  Your approach is probably best for your own mental health; it’s just one I can’t make myself take.

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Oh I see a difference, I just don't think making an effort to think of your partner and take periodic small actions to alleviate their pain - like allowing the problem to be mentioned - is this massive unreasonable insurmountable problem in either case. It's just easier for some people to claim it is rather than seriously trying to deal with their demons.

 

I spent years being sympathetic to presumed demons of some sort with my wife and subsuming my needs to hers because that was apparently what was needed to support her; she made no discernable effort to return the effort by paying attention to mine. Obviously everyone's different but I do frequently see that attitude mirrored or excused by asexuals. They are apparently too delicate to be equal partners in a relationship by dealing with their own shit, to be crude.

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@RejectedWife I'm really sorry. :( I've dealt with suicidal ideation.

I wonder if you think about approaching your partner with information about asexuality?

In our relationship, we found learning about asexuality changed our approach completely. We realized we'd been trying the wrong things, assuming something could exist that couldn't. But I know the conversation doesn't help or work for everyone (and maybe you already tried it). It works for some... and not others. This is the place I started when bringing it to my partner, in case it helps. https://theacetheist.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/what-to-do-if-you-think-your-partner-might-be-asexual/

It seems my partner and I communicate pretty well. And we weren't celibate, it was ... that I'd initiate, but I didn't understand why he would never initiate / be interested in anything / never respond with much enthusiasm / so often turn me down in a stressed way. Which was pretty painful, over the years, but maybe I'm stubborn, I don't know, I never quit. Since he was agreeing to sex over the years, it probably means it more likely that a "sex indifferent" compromise sex approach was more likely to work out for us, once we understood what was happening.

 

@starweb I know, my partner cares. I care a lot about him and I don't want him to feel guilty about it. He shouldn't. No one should feel bad about something they can't change, and I hope it's gotten better for him too now that we know it can't change. It's an accident nobody intended. Sometimes I divert my negative feelings to the world at large -- wishing there'd been more awareness.

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I just don't think making an effort to think of your partner and take periodic small actions to alleviate their pain - like allowing the problem to be mentioned - is this massive unreasonable insurmountable problem in either case. It's just easier for some people to claim it is rather than seriously trying to deal with their demons.

I feel like some people deal with these discussions really well - anisotropic’s relationship sounds this way from the way it’s described here - but a lot don’t.  Sometimes that’s because the people doing the mentioning are not as kind and gentle as they claim to be (or think they are).  Sometime’s it’s because one or both partners has big demons.  Sometimes it’s really just that one person (or both) is a jerk.

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I think some of what people are seeing is just deep frustration from sexuals. 

 

I love my wife. We are happy together. We occasionally have sex and when we do she give every impression of enjoying it and says she would like to do it more often.  We are happy and cuddly for a few days.   Then there are endless reasons , each valid, but adding up to no sex for weeks, or sometimes several months.  

 

To me it seems so *simple*.  Why can't we just spend the time we re-watch tv shows in the evening to have sex a few times a week. She very rarely seems at all unhappy after sex, most of the time she seems very happy.   

 

I *know* that the way she is wired she only want sex occasionally.  But how it feels is that we have sex exactly when and how she wants it, with no consideration at all for me. I'm either a chore, or a masturbation aid. 

 

Our situation may be different form many. I've kept track.  I suggest sex occasionally.  I have been turned down every single time for the last >2 years, even at times she had previously suggested that we would be having sex.  There may be more going on in our situation .

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I was a vehicle for masterbation long ago in my marriage.  Also a vehicle for procreation.  My use & need in those departments is gone.   I  talked and attempted to reason with a very intelligent & highly educated man who prides himself on his medical knowledge... furthermore spends ALOT of time with male athletes and others who most likes love to brag and talk about sex..... but he will just block it all out, and avoid involving his self in those conversations.  He AVOIDS and denies, which is his way

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I recognize that all situations differ- certainly have learned here!  My situation rings similar to many however because he is not a “jerk” in any other way.  He just does not have an interest or apparently an idea that sexual activity was important to his spouse, because HIS needs and way of life are as he wants.  He may be affectionate, but that is enough.  There is a total disconnect between romance, romantic attraction and sex, as this is for most of us

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@SusannaC have you tried talking to him about asexuality?

 

Is someone a jerk if they don't want to acknowledge & empathize that others experience the world differently?

 

It must feel hard to feel like time and body have been sacrificed and those aren't rewarded with some empathy at least.

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40 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

@SusannaC have you tried talking to him about asexuality?

 

Is someone a jerk if they don't want to acknowledge & empathize that others experience the world differently?

 

It must feel hard to feel like time and body have been sacrificed and those aren't rewarded with some empathy at least.

I was actually using “jerk” in response to Ryns previous comment about sometimes people are just jerks for choosing to not discuss... that was my interpretation of what was said.  I was pointing out as well, that he is NOT a jerk anyway. An Interesting progression over the years though when I didn’t know asexuality was a possibility, I wondered if he WAS a jerk for denying me.

We separated briefly many years ago, about 2.5 yrs into the start of sexless life.  One of requirements for working out a solution for making marriage work was that he counsel with a therapist about about our sex problems AND he get a physical to check for health related concerns.... he came back to me proudly, with a clean bill of health and proof of testosterone.   His therapist glossed over the sexual dysfunction.... we reunited and had enough sex to count on two hands..... then it became less and less an interest, less time,...and he had erection failure.  We talked and he even wrote his self a script for Viagra- but used one.  Didn’t like “how it makes me feel”.  End of conversation 

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Before I understood that my spouse was asexual I wondered(angrily)  how he could romantically love me without needing, wanting sex. Sexual attraction is tied in my brain to romantic attraction.  I had romantic love for him once, but I cannot have romantic attraction for someone who I KNOW does not desire me sexually.... I love him, and I am uncomfortable with his awkward attempts at romantic behaviors(he never attempts to take it further or initiate sex though).  This relationship  is as good as it will be: a platonical love and partnership through the daily grind of life.  This is what I will always get because that is all he has to willingly offer.  I accept it, but the understanding will always be painful for me.

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@SusannaC I'm sorry it's so rough. :(

 

I feel pretty lucky that my spouse has been really kind about me experiencing sexual desire even though he doesn't. This empathy really came out as he identified as asexual, maybe because he realized that I was different and that my sexuality was linked to my romantic feelings. I've also gotten a lot more cautious ... I can feel really awkward and vulnerable when asking for it sometimes, now that I know he's only doing it for me, I appreciate that he handles it with a lot of caring.

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3 hours ago, SusannaC said:

Before I understood that my spouse was asexual I wondered(angrily)  how he could romantically love me without needing, wanting sex. Sexual attraction is tied in my brain to romantic attraction.  I had romantic love for him once, but I cannot have romantic attraction for someone who I KNOW does not desire me sexually.... I love him, and I am uncomfortable with his awkward attempts at romantic behaviors(he never attempts to take it further or initiate sex though).  This relationship  is as good as it will be: a platonical love and partnership through the daily grind of life.  This is what I will always get because that is all he has to willingly offer.  I accept it, but the understanding will always be painful for me.

Yes, is sort of the issue for me as well. I understand my wife being near-asexual.  I understand that she loves me - in her way.  But it will never really feel like love to me. I go through the motions to make her happy. 

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7 hours ago, SusannaC said:

I was actually using “jerk” in response to Ryns previous comment about sometimes people are just jerks for choosing to not discuss...

...and I was using it in concession to tele’s point that not everyone has a valid excuse.

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On 10/25/2018 at 3:50 PM, Serran said:

Every few days?

 

If my partner had to apologize for who they were every few days, it would cause constant guilt, depression and anxiety in them.

Did I mention an apology anywhere? As for acknowledging that there is a difference? The frustrated sexual is doing that daily, not even every few days. And being the only person to acknowledge that there is a problem sounds awfully like being the only person bothered by problems in the relationship. A good comparison perhaps would be an asexual compromising with sex and the sexual simply taking it for granted and enjoying sex on whim making no effort to reduce demands even after knowing their partner is asexual. And oh, believing the relationship to be in excellent condition.

 

On 10/25/2018 at 3:50 PM, Serran said:

Wanting an ace to do that sounds a lot like...

 

"Hey a fundamental part of your person is making me miserable, I require you to acknowledge how much I hate this piece of you at least once a week and tell me you know you are making me miserable so I feel better"

You mean when asexuals refuse sex, they are saying they hate a fundamental part of the partner? Or are they simply stating the situation? Because apart from the refusal being prompted or unprompted, there isn't a whole big difference in what to say. The only thing is, by ignoring, the asexual gets to shrug off their discomfort about the difference - something that is never an option for the sexual. Sharing the anxiety of the mismatch too is a form of togetherness, of saying that they haven't forgotten that this is not easy for their partner - as opposed to moving on unconcerned as long as the sexual manages their loneliness on their own doesn't push for sex.

 

On 10/25/2018 at 3:50 PM, Serran said:

I have no idea how that could do anything but make the ace miserable. I guess misery loves company?

Sarcastically, but you actually nailed exactly what I was saying. Being content when your partner is miserable, leaves them abandoned emotionally in addition to sexually. The ace may not be able to do something about it, but some empathy tells their partner that they aren't unconcerned and indifferent about their suffering either. Just as a sexual acknowledging that the ace is going out of their zone of comfort/preference to be with them matters, as opposed to simply asking for and getting sex exactly as and when they wish, even if their ace is miserable.

 

Expecting the sexual to acknowledge the discomfort of the ace regularly wouldn't seem like unnecessarily raining on their party when they could be happy, right? Or are you seriously saying that sexuals who get aces who compromise for whatever reason shouldn't bother to acknowledge it? Or are you just saying that the preferences of aces should be respected and sexuals can feel abandoned on their own and not make their partners miserable?

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@Serranperhaps another way of saying the same thing is that while there is a mismatch, there will be some amount of misery for both - IF both care about each other. Or you will have one person at peace and the other miserable. Getting a sexual to stop bugging an ace about sex isn't a "solution" that the sexual spoils by expecting acknowledgment. There is no "solution" to the mismatch short of sexual needs changing. The "misery" you seem to think otherwise absent that the sexual would be imposing is actually a reality of the relationship, not something the sexual invented to torture the ace.

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On 10/26/2018 at 4:41 AM, uhtred said:

I love my wife. We are happy together. We occasionally have sex and when we do she give every impression of enjoying it and says she would like to do it more often.  We are happy and cuddly for a few days.   Then there are endless reasons , each valid, but adding up to no sex for weeks, or sometimes several months.  

 

To me it seems so *simple*.  Why can't we just spend the time we re-watch tv shows in the evening to have sex a few times a week. She very rarely seems at all unhappy after sex, most of the time she seems very happy.

I can so relate to this. My ace usually enjoys sex or even only stimulating me. But he doesn't want it again. Over time, I've come to think of sex as his Disneyland. Fabulous fun when we do it, but not necessarily something to do regularly.

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50 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

But he doesn't want it again.

Has he ever explained why, assuming he knows?  Is it just not something that comes to mind, or is it something - like Disneyland, or perhaps a bucket list achievement - that he (enjoyed at the time, but) actively wants not to repeat?

 

E.g., I’ve summited Mauna Kea.  It was a good experience overall and something I would recommend (with caveats) to people visiting the Big Island of Hawaii.  However, I have no interest in ever doing it again and can provide a detailed list of why.  I’ve also visited the ruins at Pompei, which I really, really enjoyed.  That I would consider doing again, but not in quick succession after a previous trip.  I can list off why there, too.  I went to a party Saturday, which was fun, but I would not give up re-watching shows to do it again (and can explain why).  Conversely, I ate dinner out with just my partner that evening and would cheerfully do it every night forever if weight management and money management allowed.

 

Just curious as it might be part of the answer to uhtred’s question...

 

 

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30 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Has he every explained why, assuming he knows?  Is it just not something that comes to mind, or is it something - like Disneyland, or perhaps a bucket list achievement - that he (enjoyed at the time, but) actively wants not to repeat?

We have discussed this a lot. He can enjoy sex. He is absolutely not pretending enjoyment. He agrees with the Disneyland example. He enjoys it when he happens, but it doesn't matter to him enough to want it to happen. And he can think of a hundred things he actually wants to do. He doesn't have anything against sex either. He can get aroused while stimulating me and decide that it will be more fun to PIV on occasion. Other times he'll enjoy me touching him but not want more. Usually, he'll do me, as long as I don't do anything to his body. He's interested in bringing me pleasure if/when I want it. He isn't interested in sexual pleasure unless he gets caught up in the moment - BUT it is very complicated. Mostly, it has to come from him. Me trying to arouse him if he isn't in the mood is not appreciated. But he also usually has no idea whether he wants sex till he is in a potentially sexual situation. So it can begin with an accidental touch or more likely when he is stimulating me (and probably thinks it is easier to do this with his penis than hand, lol).

 

Edit: Him wanting sex is usually some situation fitting his mental fantasies. Which is basically him masturbating to his mental script using my body. There is rarely such a thing as here and now sex.

 

We actually have a mirror of this with restaurants. There is no way in hell that I will go "yes!" to "Do you want to go out for dinner?" It isn't that I don't like the food. My ace is such a foodie, any place he takes me too is guaranteed to have food I like. I'm mostly agnostic about food. I do want it to taste good every time if I'll eat it, but as long as it tastes good, I have no ambition to chase something specific. I just don't see the sense in leaving home and going somewhere to eat and then returning home. What's wrong with eating at home? No worrying about having to get back home, no time limit, we can sprawl how we like and take all the time we need, watch a film with it if he wants... Have I done it? Sure. Of course I've eaten in restauarants. Enjoyed it too. But on my own, the only time I do it is if I am already out of my home and hungry. I do it with him, because for some reason I don't get, he gets a kick out of it. Am I ever going to be the person to say "Hey let's go out for dinner?" Very unlikely, unless I'm doing it for him.

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In some ways, it is a bigger mind fuck when your ace enjoys sex but doesn't want it. It is waaaaay easier to understand someone repulsed by sex not wanting it or someone not wanting it with you because they don't enjoy it. "Don't want it because it isn't nice" is easy to understand. "It was fantastic. Thanks. Let's not do it again." Makes no sense.

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32 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

In some ways, it is a bigger mind fuck when your ace enjoys sex but doesn't want it. It is waaaaay easier to understand someone repulsed by sex not wanting it or someone not wanting it with you because they don't enjoy it. "Don't want it because it isn't nice" is easy to understand. "It was fantastic. Thanks. Let's not do it again." Makes no sense.

Completely agree.  Its incredibly frustrating. 

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46 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

We actually have a mirror of this with restaurants.

This seems like it would at least be helpful in terms of understanding one another, even if it doesn’t solve the problem.

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43 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

In some ways, it is a bigger mind fuck when your ace enjoys sex but doesn't want it. It is waaaaay easier to understand someone repulsed by sex not wanting it or someone not wanting it with you because they don't enjoy it. "Don't want it because it isn't nice" is easy to understand. "It was fantastic. Thanks. Let's not do it again." Makes no sense.

That’s the same (in reverse) as the restaurant scenario, though, no?  You went and had a really good meal, enjoyed it very much, were pleased by his enjoyment as well... but (left to your own devices, at least) would rather eat at home from then forward.

 

It’s not like you got food poisoning or had a crappy meal.

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6 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

That’s the same (in reverse) as the restaurant scenario, though, no?  You went and had a really good meal, enjoyed it very much, were pleased by his enjoyment as well... but (left to your own devices, at least) would rather eat at home from then forward.

yes.

 

We both frustrate each other's desires 😛

 

Edit: Though jokes apart, the going out to eat isn't such a big issue. I do go out with him if he asks and we have found plenty of workarounds - like having a snack somewhere while on our evening walk. This is DAILY. I cannot eyeroll enough, but he loves it, and since we are already out, I'm less resistant, so why not. Usually it is crappy fast food he likes for some reason, when there is delicious stuff waiting at home, but we do more elaborate stuff too. And I'm also converting him sneakily to the joys of eating at home using his taste buds as my secret weapon 😛 

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Ah, okay.  I was scratching my head a little over why “the sex was great but I don’t want to do it again” is a mindfuck but “the restaurant meal was great but I don’t want to do it again” isn’t.

 

I mean, I don’t personally see “I had a great meal but going out is still too much work” as a mindfuck - more just “I can see why you feel that way but it’s so worth it to me” - but I also don’t see “I had great sex but it’s still too much work” as one.

 

Agreed that neither is the same as “ugh, I’m repulsed” - with either sex or restaurant dining.

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1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Ah, okay.  I was scratching my head a little over why “the sex was great but I don’t want to do it again” is a mindfuck but “the restaurant meal was great but I don’t want to do it again” isn’t.

Well, from my perspective, not wanting to go out to eat makes perfect sense and not wanting a repeat of sex you enjoyed is nonsense. For the other side, you have to ask him 😛

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2 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Well, from my perspective, not wanting to go out to eat makes perfect sense and not wanting a repeat of sex you enjoyed is nonsense. For the other side, you have to ask him 😛

Well, yeah, but doesn’t having a pair of things like that - one that makes sense to you, the other of which seems like nonsense - help when it comes to understanding how someone else might have the same disparate feelings (just about different things)?

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(deleted because a double-post occurred - weird! see below. :) )

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1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

In some ways, it is a bigger mind fuck when your ace enjoys sex but doesn't want it.

Haha, almost everything you wrote here is so familiar! I can't manage to ❤️ all of it. :)


Same overall picture: he seems to enjoy it physically but it's not something he'll ever want.

The restaurant analogy... or my own has been to reflect on taking our kids out to the playground. We do it (and enjoy it, I guess?) because the kids love it... and that's the incentive.
 

My partner doesn't have any issues with stimulation, maybe a bit more in a mindset of... "I don't want you to spring this on me, but with hours/days notice it's good, we can do it, provided I'm feeling physically and emotionally well". And he really prefers I do all the initiating and leading, the less expectation he has to decide or want anything the better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

He prioritizes it more now because he realized it matters to me. Apparently a couple months ago his therapist made a statement that might feel like a no-brainer: "it sounds like your partner is in a better mood after you have sex". Cue a little observational research experiment, with the research subject of myself! Later he said "yeah seems like my therapist was right about that".

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