Sexual Wife/Asexual Husband - It's A Hard Life

[Wandering Around]

2 minutes ago, NickJ said:

My wife and I pretty much stuck our heads in the sand for years. We’d been together for over a decade when she figured out she was ace. Sex has always been rare, and while she finds it “nice” she doesn’t experience any real desire or drive to experience it.

 

She has always said we can have sex whenever I want, but I’ve always felt uncomfortable initiating sex with her. I suppose for a long time we both believed it would work itself out, that something would change. It never has.

 

Last year we agreed that I could seek out a secondary partner, someone who could be a friend, but with whom I could hoe

fully find the chemistry and sexual desire that was missing frommour relationship. I didn’t make much effort to look but I did join some poly groups.

 

I ended up meeting a woman when I least expected it, and what was supposed to be “friends with benefits” very quickly became so much more. I’m a 48 year old man, my life was mapped out and now I have no idea where I’m going. The thing is, I don’t regret the decisions that lead me to this point. Life is really painfully complicated now, but there is also love and joy and passion and for those things are absolutely priceless, and worth pursuing. 

Thank you for sharing your story and your words of encouragement Nick. It really does give me hope. We too always figured it would work itself out and as you can see it has not  But i am glad you have found someone! ❤️ I suppose it is true that a person finds what they are seeking when they least expect it and quit looking so hard. 

 

I suppose my pain and hesitation with this is running deeper because I had found my other in a very dear friend (long story) and things were progressing nicely even if slowly when he passed away suddenly last year... it was devastating on so many levels. 

[Wandering Around]

5 hours ago, anisotropic said:

@Wandering Around it's good to be determined!

 

It's often unclear to me from forum posts how averse an ace partner is vs. an allo doesn't want to ask for sex.

 

If it's more the latter and you want to consider path #3, I should say that I forced myself to it. I felt repulsed and unattracted with the revelation his asexuality, and so it started with me faltering, failing partway through & crying instead, and my partner comforting me. My therapist called it exposure therapy. Not that it was her idea, hah.

 

Eventually I'd cry after, not during (and be comforted without fail)... and eventually the crying part faded entirely. In retrospect I feel like a bit crazy for having done that. The upshot is that we have the sex I want & I don't hesitate much to ask for what I want (he's okay with lots of stuff, just doesn't desire it himself - like a prostitute). And I think at some point I think I realized it was more of a chore to comfort me than it was to have sex (so I should probably get over it).

 

On his end, I think it made sex easier when I have zero expectation of him expressing any desire for it? Instead, I'm very thankful for him doing it.

 

On path #4 ...  I guess I feel like, maybe later? The option isn't going anywhere, no need to rush. I have a private prostitute who comforts me when I get guilty about using them, it's not attraction but it's plenty of love...

Wow you really went through the wringer there *hugs and comforts you via the magical strings of the interwebs* and I think therapy would be a good idea even if my husband refuses to participate I think I would benefit from it greatly *sharing is REALLY* hard on him and I'm not at the point on this journey myself that I can be the motivation and support in all things for both of us. 

 

His lack of desire for sensual and sexual interactions are currently at the point that it results in a very dissatisfying and emotional time for us both so at this point in time we are not engaging in anything of that nature (I'm about to pop someone may have to peel me off the ceiling soon... lol) 

 

I think the other thing that is factoring into this for me is the fact that I'm such a "Blanche Devereaux" (if you have ever watch the Golden Girls this makes sense, if not hit up wiki and consider the laugh on me ^_^) I went from one extreme to the other and it was jarring. All of my previous relationships prior to my husband were extremely passionate, sensual and kinky even and I suppose in a way it never crossed my then *young* mind that my sex life would ever be anything but that. ... how naive and wrong I was.

 

Also, as I mentioned to another commenter Nick,  I suppose my pain and hesitation with this, especially in relation to pursuing path 4, is running deeper because I had found my other in a very dear friend (long story) and things were progressing nicely even if slowly when he passed away suddenly last year... it was devastating on so many levels. He was my partner in crime, my soulmate on a friendship level and so much more so with his death the loneliness and depression increased ten fold.  He was one of the few people in my life I could tell anything(no censorship needed) and now that is gone. I suppose in a way I feel like there has been a lot of different kinds of significant losses in my life in the past year alone and I'm truly reeling from it all...  I appreciate the support and kindness I have received here so much.

 

[Wandering Around]

3 hours ago, Nidwin said:

On one side of the fence,

sex seems to be the ultimate intimate expression between two, or more, persons.

On my side of the fence,

sex is a chore on the same level as doing the dishes, iron the clothes or putting out the garbage once a week.

Indeed there is a broad fence line between the two... it makes for difficult times.

 

I am certain that my husband feel that being physically intimate with me is even worse than doing dishes or laundry.... at least he enjoys doing those things a little *sighs* I wish there were some local support groups in our area for such things. It would be helpful. 

[Telecaster68]

3 hours ago, Nidwin said:

I agree with *Many* but as you mentioned Sally, what are we supposed to do.

I guess I'd explicitly exclude any asexual who's taking enough of an interest to post on the PFA section of AVEN, by definition. But read the posts from the sexuals posting in this section: your level engagement is far from normative.

[ryn2]

14 minutes ago, Wandering Around said:

I am certain that my husband feel that being physically intimate with me is even worse than doing dishes or laundry.... at least he enjoys doing those things a little *sighs*

Is your partner potentially sex-repulsed as well as ace?

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

I guess I'd explicitly exclude any asexual who's taking enough of an interest to post on the PFA section of AVEN, by definition. But read the posts from the sexuals posting in this section: your level engagement is far from normative.

The reason I keep bringing this up is that what each of us experiences from our own side of the fence is at least to some degree internal to ourselves and not necessarily reflective of how our partners think, feel, or view the situation.  It’s very easy to, when a partner does(n’t do) something, assume that partner’s reasons are our own (“if I treated someone that way, it would mean I didn’t want them around anymore... therefore my partner wants to end our relationship,” etc.).

 

I know some folks feel action is much more important than intent and don’t care about the underlying reasoning... but others very much do care.  It’s important for that latter group to remember that jumping to conclusions based on observed behavior is dangerous and can make everything about a relationship more painful.

[NickJ]

2 hours ago, Wandering Around said:

Thank you for sharing your story and your words of encouragement Nick. It really does give me hope. We too always figured it would work itself out and as you can see it has not  But i am glad you have found someone! ❤️ I suppose it is true that a person finds what they are seeking when they least expect it and quit looking so hard. 

 

I suppose my pain and hesitation with this is running deeper because I had found my other in a very dear friend (long story) and things were progressing nicely even if slowly when he passed away suddenly last year... it was devastating on so many levels. 

You’re very welcome. I guess my message is that there is hope, even if there aren’t any easy or clean solutions. 

 

I am sorry to hear about the friend you lost. I can only imagine how horrible that must have been.

[Telecaster68]

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

 It’s very easy to, when a partner does(n’t do) something, assume that partner’s reasons are our own (“if I treated someone that way, it would mean I didn’t want them around anymore... therefore my partner wants to end our relationship,” etc.).

 

I know some folks feel action is much more important than intent and don’t care about the underlying reasoning... but others very much do care.  It’s important for that latter group to remember that jumping to conclusions based on observed behavior is dangerous and can make everything about a relationship more painful.

If one partner is doing nothing to resolve the problem, including avoiding talking about it, and appears to be generally cheerful, thankyou, it's unavoidable their partner will draw the conclusion they're fine with the situation, including that their partner isn't happy. Not drawing that conclusion means the sexual partner is now being asked to do all the emotional work in constantly re-parsing their apparently cheerful partner's demeanour to remember that despite all appearances, they're miserable and stressed.

 

It's not about misinterpreting signals, it's about reasonably interpreting a lack of them. Coming to conclusions about other people's thoughts and intentions is what humans do; we couldn't function without it and it's called theory of mind. Not doing it would be dangerous.

[Wandering Around]

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

Is your partner potentially sex-repulsed as well as ace?

You may well be on to something there. I shall ask him. Far as I know at the moment he just sees it as something that's rather dronning and yawn worthy but I do know he has major issues with various body fluids... so repulsion may well be a thing. 

[ryn2]

20 minutes ago, Wandering Around said:

You may well be on to something there. I shall ask him. Far as I know at the moment he just sees it as something that's rather dronning and yawn worthy but I do know he has major issues with various body fluids... so repulsion may well be a thing. 

Unless he has an unusual love of household chores, what you said earlier makes me wonder.

[ryn2]

27 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Coming to conclusions about other people's thoughts and intentions is what humans do; we couldn't function without it and it's called theory of mind. 

It is, but in a close relationship where you have the opportunity to ask questions instead of assuming it’s wiser to go for an actual answer.

 

I’m not trying to comment on your relationship with your ex (and I’m divorced, so I get the whole “divorced isn’t something you do, it’s something you become” business), just pointing out that not all asexual partners are like your ex and not all sexuals are like you.

 

Any time we assume the cause for someone’s behavior and then treat them as though our assumptions are correct, we lose emotional intimacy.  In relationships/interactions where - for whatever reason - that does not (or no longer) matter(s), it’s not an issue.  In relationships where partners are still trying to work out the best course of action - especially if continuing on together in some sort of close, loving partnership is still one of the options on the table - it is very much one.

[anisotrophic]

2 hours ago, Wandering Around said:

Wow you really went through the wringer there 

Well, I'm really happy now.  

 

I'm okay with it being a chore; the willingness to do it for me makes me feel loved. In return, I try to do more dishes?

 

And, touching a third rail perhaps, but my own experience is that aversions can sometimes subside. (Another example: I recall how averse I was to feces, before having changed hundreds of diapers.)

 

Sex has such powerful emotions for me. While I understood intellectually that my partner said "it's not a big deal, just a minor chore" ... it took a while to emotionally accept that it really *was* a minor chore, he wasn't downplaying it for my sake.

[ryn2]

7 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

And, touching a third rail perhaps, but my own experience is that aversions can sometimes subside.

I’ve had this experience as well.  I’m sure some people will be horrified, but it’s essentially like working past a phobia... getting over it is No Fun but sometimes whatever it is interferes with your life to an extent that doing the miserable work is ultimately worth it.  On the other hand, sometimes it’s just not worth it.

 

I’m not speaking specifically of sexual things here but the same theory applies.

[ryn2]

10 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

Sex has such powerful emotions for me. While I understood intellectually that my partner said "it's not a big deal, just a minor chore" ... it took a while to emotionally accept that it really *was* a minor chore, he wasn't downplaying it for my sake.

I think this is an important point. While some ace people likely have negative emotions around sex that rival some sexuals’ positive ones, others have little or no emotions surrounding it at all.  While that’s actually part of the problem, it can also be part of the solution.

[Telecaster68]

16 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It is, but in a close relationship where you have the opportunity to ask questions instead of assuming it’s wiser to go for an actual answer.

But when the verbal answer consistently doesn't match up with behaviour (for weeks/months) I'll choose behaviour. We've discussed this before, and I know you choose words over action.

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But when the verbal answer consistently doesn't match up with behaviour (for weeks/months) I'll choose behaviour. We've discussed this before, and I know you choose words over action.

...and that’s fine.  My point was that people shouldn’t start from a point of assumption, not that they might not eventually end up there.

 

Personally, whether I choose words over behavior (or vice versa) depends on the person and the situation.  In cases where words and actions don’t align, some people are more likely to be dishonest with one... and others with the other.

 

The place where I think we get stuck is that you’re more likely (or at least faster) to reach a point where you say “who cares if they actually care for me/mean well/want me to be happy, if they aren’t willing to do the bare minimum to make it a reality for me?” whereas I’m more like to give concessions when “aren’t willing” might be “don’t know how” or “aren’t able.”

[anamikanon]

@Wandering Around I think there are a lot of things going on. You need to break it down into parts you can tackle.

 

We tend to see a problem and all the problems that emerge from it as one larger picture. This is good for understanding the situation. However for addressing it, it is too big, too overwhelming to be doable. The smaller the chunk of the incompatibility is, the better.

 

For example, self-esteem issues are your own deal. You seriously cannot hinge your self esteem over an asexual being attracted to you, just like you can't hinge it off a blind person noticing your new hair color. Your frustration is a result of the incompatibility, but your low self-esteem is a result of you not being able to find a way out of it. So address your self-esteem issues already - they are not relevant to asexuality or sexuality.

 

Sexual frustration. Is this about not feeling touched enough? Hot orgasming enough? Have emergency hacks. Masturbating is the obvious one, but often the thirst is about feeling deprived of affectionate touch. Someone wanting to be close to us. To some extent, the mind can be fooled. Having friends prone to easy hugs and non-judgmental listening can help. As can getting a body massage from a professional. It is not a solution and it can't "satisfy", but it does help mitigate some of the negativity of an overall mood.

 

Have other hacks, interests. Do more of things where you are respected, liked. If there aren't any satisfactory ones, find something new to do that is your own, your own domain and your husband's lack of enthusiasm can't contaminate it.

 

Address all the smaller problems that don't require him to be sexual. Or as many as you can. 

 

Address the issue of asexuality together with him, see what dissatisfaction still remains - sex alone or more? live in sex god partner? casual hit-and-run sex, FWB... sex professionals... see what he thinks, say what you think. Negotiate to have a discussion where no idea is too crazy to bring up and mentioning it doesn't mean it will be done, to allow room for discussion without panicked overreactions.

 

Also take a good honest look at whether you want him at all, if he cannot understand you in a fundamental way. If you have addressed the peripheral problems, you will have the sanity and confidence to have a stand and negotiate for yourself better.

[ryn2]

17 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

For example, self-esteem issues are your own deal. You seriously cannot hinge your self esteem over an asexual being attracted to you, just like you can't hinge it off a blind person noticing your new hair color. Your frustration is a result of the incompatibility, but your low self-esteem is a result of you not being able to find a way out of it. So address your self-esteem issues already - they are not relevant to asexuality or sexuality.

So much yes, for so many on here (on both sides of the fence, potentially)...

[anisotrophic]

I'm not in favor of framing self esteem issues are purely internal. We can adapt ourselves, but so much is an entangled product of ourselves and how we interact with others. Humans are social creatures.

Improving self esteem might mean understanding what we really want or need from other people, and improving our relationships with them to be receiving those things (and others receiving what they need from us, in return). Knowing to distance ourselves from those that can't or won't give us the relationships and interactions we need.

Whether being attractive to someone is the thing we needed, or if it's more of a proxy for other things?

[ryn2]

I agree that the original root cause might be partially external (e.g., childhood bullying in combo with poor parenting), and part of looking after yourself while you’re working on self-esteem and boundaries means knowing what types of people are toxic to you/block your progress and avoiding them, and that it’s sometimes useful to ask people to suspend certain behaviors during your work (e.g., making catty comments about others’ appearance or weight while you’re trying to internalize “most people pay no attention to those things unless they, too, are feeling insecure”)...

 

...but the process of identifying, getting help with, and working past/eradicating self-esteem issues is all solo work.

[Telecaster68]

If someone was constantly assailed by colleagues making snide remarks, I think it's unreasonable and unrealistic to expect them to be unaffected. 

 

Or put it another way: if someone was routinely taking disproportionate amounts of food at a buffet despite other people questioning their platefuls, you're saying they'd be right to ignore the opinions of everyone else, and taking any notice of social disapproval would be a sign of poor boundaries? 

[ryn2]

There’s a difference between choosing to modify your behavior in ways that support your goals (staying employed, perhaps, in the buffet example) and letting others’ input damage (or bolster) your sense of self-worth.

 

If I’m not getting the results out of my presentations that I need, I can certainly solicit input.  Some of it may be constructive, some of it may be obnoxious and rude.   Adjusting my presentation to accommodate the input has nothing to do with boundaries or self-esteem.

 

Beating myself up over how I “caused” the rude feedback, or how I suck and can’t do anything right, totally does.

[ryn2]

43 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

If someone was constantly assailed by colleagues making snide remarks, I think it's unreasonable and unrealistic to expect them to be unaffected. 

It often smarts in the moment to have someone behave unkindly, especially if it’s unexpected... but someone with healthy self-esteem will not internalize the other person’s behavior or look inward inappropriately to try to change things.

[anisotrophic]

Yes, we're responsible for how we interpret others, and communicate with them. But we have responsibilities to how we affect others, too.

It's common to have some form of power over others. I've had more than I'm used to. I've been learning to be more conscious of how the power differential, where I bear far more responsibility in how my actions may affect others. And it's my responsibility to recognize their vulnerability to being affected by me, whether or not I think it's justified.

[ryn2]

It’s ultimately not up to you to “make them feel good about themselves,” though, although in a leadership role recognizing the danger signs that someone needs to be directed towards help can be quite beneficial.

[Telecaster68]

In a relationship you surely have a responsibility to not do stuff that'll make them feel bad, too. 

[ryn2]

If you want to keep your partner it’s prudent (and nice) to be kind to them.

 

That’s not the same as their handing over (or your having) responsibility for their self-esteem.

[anisotrophic]

I think it's reasonable to expect someone to take some personal responsibility for managing how they feel about themselves. But I also think it's reasonable for our self esteem to be affected by how others treat us. Perhaps I am very non-binary.

But asexuality -- the enduring absence of attraction -- isn't a choice and can't be deliberately changed. It's not how a person is treating me, it's an immutable aspect of the world.

[ryn2]

It’s probably also possible (on both sides) that self-esteem issues may be one factor that makes people more likely to stay in unhappy situations... situations people with better self-esteem might avoid or exit sooner.

 

18 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

But I also think it's reasonable for our self esteem to be affected by how others treat us

There’s often a feedback loop at work... if someone already suffers from low self-esteem, being in situations that reinforce negative self-perceptions and self-talk (e.g., having a partner who doesn’t treat them with respect or who doesn’t appear to like/care about/be attracted to them) helps sustain that low self-esteem.  That’s still on the person with the low self-esteem

to address, though.  It’s not so much about what other people are willfully doing as it is about unconsciously (and consciously, sometimes) looking for proof that their own pre-existing (propensity towards) poor self-image is justified.

[MrDane]

On 9/12/2018 at 10:46 AM, Nidwin said:

 

On one side of the fence,

sex seems to be the ultimate intimate expression between two, or more, persons.

On my side of the fence,

sex is a chore on the same level as doing the dishes, iron the clothes or putting out the garbage once a week.

This, I fear to ask my wife about, since I hope that she actually enjoys it, when the stars are enligned and the timing is rigth. I fear for her response.