I'm a male, but I wish I was a female

[fireball0093]

Hello everyone, I stumbled upon this site earlier today during some downtime at work and read a wonderful thread that encouraged me to finally reach out and get my feelings out there to others, and hopefully have some guidance as well. Some quick family background, I never had super religious parents, my mother told me to simply believe in what I want to although my father was catholic and a bit more on the religious side than her, and a bit more old fashioned in certain ways. Currently I am 24, and for as long as I can remember I've always been into "girly" things. When I was little I liked girl toys, I really loved the style of girl's clothing (still do for that matter, more on that later), I enjoyed hobbies that are mainly associated with females, etc. I've also always fit in better with women and have been able to form an emotional connection with them way easier than with men, most of my closest friends are women. I hate how most men treat women like objects, how they degrade women, how they put women down over small stupid petty stuff. I've always been on the feminine side all of my life, and the past few weeks after doing self-reflection and a lot of thought, simply put I just wish I was a woman. I've always admired the aesthetic of the female body, in a non-sexual way. In fact I rarely ever look at the female body (or male body for that matter) in a sexual way unless it's during intimate moments with my partner. My lovely girlfriend is a fighter for LGBTQ+ rights, and is also pansexual, and some of the stuff we've talked about in the past when she explained more about different sexualities and different gender identities got me thinking about those deep inner feelings that were always there, but that I've repressed. In the past few weeks, it just kind of all hit me at once one night as I was browsing Deviantart and stumbled upon a trans woman, DanaKPop. The aesthetic of her, along with her clothing style is exactly how I truly yearned to be myself. Seeing her for some reason made me finally accepted those feelings I repressed, and realized that I really want to be a woman. I've started purchasing some women's clothing, from panties to leggings, cute tops and a dress I found on sale (I don't have any kind of fetish for those either, I never have). I don't wear them other than when I'm at home though. When I wear them I just feel... like myself I guess is the way to put it. I feel more comfortable with who I am and I feel more like the woman I believe I was meant to be. For now I'm comfortable with my body, for the most part. I do wish I had breasts though to be honest. I've also been growing out my hair for at least the last 3-4 years, with no intention of cutting it short again. My girlfriend does know, she's the only person that I've told and she's super accepting about it. I also kind of feel it brought us closer too when I told her. There's only 2 other very close friends I feel like coming out to as well when I feel ready to. My father, I don't think I'm ever going to tell him, I just know he won't be accepting of it. My mother however, something in my gut just tells me she's going to accept me for who I am. Hell, she's always told me she's wanted a daughter as well. I'm still learning more about all of this though, and there's still a small part of me that wants to reject and not accept this but as time goes on, and the more I think about this, the less that self-rejection is. 

 

*Edit* Since I was very tired when I wrote this, I'll add some clarification to the OP from a comment of mine later in the thread:

 

It's not only wearing clothing though. I've always had strong feelings of wanting to be a woman, and clothing currently in the early stages of me exploring my identity is one way I feel comfortable and is helping me realize even further that the yearning I feel towards wishing I was a woman is truly how I feel. I don't want to identify as a man anymore. It's a bit difficult to explain this how I want to, because everyone's journey and realization for trans seems to vary quite vastly from person to person.

[ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø]

@fireball0093 U go girl! Welcome to heAVEN! There's an infinite amount of 🍰 here (not just for aces), so take as much as you want!

 

Just like you and your girlfriend, I'm a strong believer and supporter of LGBT+ rights!

 

14 minutes ago, fireball0093 said:

I don't wear them other than when I'm at home though.

I await the day where you could wear a dress outside and not have people think you're weird. Then, diversity will probably be considered the norm!

 

I admire you and your courage to be whom you are. It's truly beautiful, especially when whom you are deviates WAY from societal norms!

[Roidgy]

thats trans, babey!

[DisplayNames]

That just sounds like you like clothes and certain styles. If your don't have body issues or/& want your genitals changed don't over think it and give yourself those issues. Wear what you want and have your hair how you want and play with what you want like who you want that doesn't make you not a man or male it just make you you. If you believe you are born in wrong body then yes discuss it with you loved one and Dr and see what's for you. But from everything you said up there in post you are male who always liked things people have Wrongly Gendered as Female. My son wears dresses, skirts, plays with "girls" toys but that doesn't make them trans it just means they have their own style and likes, nothing to do with their sex or nude body image. My brother is Trans he knows he is in the wrong sex body and can't afford anything Medical but does what he can. But he still wears dress sometimes and plays dolls with my child and has many friends who are female Because clothes, toys, likes have nothing to do with how you feel of your body naked. I myself have always felt like I wanted it to be Barbie doll flat down there and only recently found people who fill the same(most are a-sexual as I am). I sudjust get naked look in mirror no one there just you (when you in happy mood) and really just look if you feel something doesn't feel right to you or if you just like dresses which anyone can wear in public and its "normal"(I don't like that word but it fits best for what I'm trying to say). Just be you wear clothes you love and maybe your trans or maybe you just have your own personality and like things that are categorized as "female things" but actually have nothing to do with being female.

Love you all and be wishes on your journey, find yourself don't let others try to tell you who you are only you know:)

[Guest]

You're so beautiful! 🐣 (That was meant to be a heart but an accidental chick happened instead and I figured it was so cute I'd leave it there)

 

 🍰 💓

[Bloc]

@fireball0093

Welcome to AVEN. Great that you on the way to understand yourself better and if this makes you feel better then this is the right way.

 

@DisplayNames Fireball knows herself much better than you do know her. If she says she is trans then I have no reason to question it. Trans people I know personally get their gender questioned more than enough offline they don't need it here.

[Bloc]

7 hours ago, fireball0093 said:

I don't wear them other than when I'm at home though.

I am still struggling with my own gender, but I like to wear "female" clothes (I don't see clothes really as gendered, but society does so it is still a way to express your gender) in public. I got more positive reactions than negative, but I don't know your community. For me it is freeing to wear them in public. I hope you find some opportunity to wear them in public. I know it is frightening in the beginning, but you will get more comfortable with time.

[Kimmie.]

First of welcome 🍰 

 

And second you go girl!  You look amazing i really love your hair (if it is you in the avatar) 

 

It is great that you have your girlfriend with you on this journey. 

[Cheshire-Cat]

Welcome to AVEN. Great to see you're starting to discover who you are, and that you have a partner willing to support you in that. Not all trans people have gender dysphoria in the way DisplayNames is trying to suggest, and many don't undergo altering surgery. Luckily there's an ever increasing awareness of trans in society. It's a shame you feel your dad may not be accepting of it but it's worth exploring how you feel, and if it feels right don't be afraid to stretch your wings and not just confine yourself to being you at home. 

 

In the mean time have a look around with some cake

[fireball0093]

@DisplayNames just because I'm biologically a male and prefer to wear female clothing doesn't mean I don't feel that yearning to be female. I already know in my heart I'm closer to accepting how I truly feel and want to be

 

@Bloc I live out in rural Pennsylvania, so there's a lot of very conservative country folk who are pretty much rejecting of a lot of modern things. I do feel comfortable enough if I'm around a few of my friends and my girlfriend to dress this way though, which I'm sure I will very soon the more I get comfortable I feel with myself.

 

@Kimmie. Yes that's me! Just picked up that cute outfit last night too

 

@ Everyone else: Thank you all so very much for the welcoming and encouraging words! I look forward to growing in this community, it feels wonderful to have found one where I don't have a fear of judgement

[Guest]

@Cheshire-Cat THAT'S a cake?! (OoO) Damn, that's too pretty to eat! 😣

 

On another note, welcome to AVEN! ☺️

 

Lots of great people here. Hope that you're able to enjoy your time here.  

 

I say, you do you. I realize that things aren't always that simple (believe me, I know; am struggling with a lot of this stuff myself...). Still, I think that it's of the utmost importance to be your authentic self. This life is too short to waste it hiding in the closet and pretending to be someone you're not. 🌈

 

Take care of you. 

[Chimeric]

For what it's worth, if liking girly things was all it took to be a girl, then I wouldn't be one. Obviously there's far more to it then that.

 

Wear whatever you want, like whatever you want, do whatever it is that makes you comfortable. Societal rules dictating "girly" versus "boyish" things are absurd, anyhow, and change by the generation.

 

Just remember there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a male who likes girly things. You don't have to be trans to do that.

[fireball0093]

It's not only wearing clothing though. I've always had strong feelings of wanting to be a woman, and clothing currently in the early stages of me exploring my identity is one way I feel comfortable and is helping me realize even further that the yearning I feel towards wishing I was a woman is truly how I feel. I don't want to identify as a man anymore. It's a bit difficult to explain this how I want to, because everyone's journey and realization for trans seems to vary quite vastly from person to person.

[Roidgy]

3 hours ago, fireball0093 said:

It's not only wearing clothing though. I've always had strong feelings of wanting to be a woman, and clothing currently in the early stages of me exploring my identity is one way I feel comfortable and is helping me realize even further that the yearning I feel towards wishing I was a woman is truly how I feel. I don't want to identify as a man anymore. It's a bit difficult to explain this how I want to, because everyone's journey and realization for trans seems to vary quite vastly from person to person.

If you wanna be a woman, you're a woman! Good luck with everything :y

[Chimeric]

On 9/8/2018 at 3:15 PM, Roidgy said:

If you wanna be a woman, you're a woman! Good luck with everything :y

I'm sorry, but this isn't how it works.

[Roidgy]

2 hours ago, Chimeric said:

I'm sorry, but this isn't how it works.

except it is :y

[PixleyDust✨]

9 hours ago, Chimeric said:

I'm sorry, but this isn't how it works.

But...it is though. That's literally the point the trans community has been trying to get across since FOREVER. It's not your body, your expression, or even your chromosomes that determine your gender. That's totally, 100 percent UP TO YOU and no one else. After all, it is YOUR gender.  

But I think I understand the confusion here. What she's trying to tell you is that she feels like a woman on a deeper, spiritual level than she ever did as a "man" and wishes to express those feelings in more visible, concrete ways, like with clothing, hobbies, etc. NOT that liking the hobbies, clothing, whatever is what makes her a woman.

No one's supporting that there are "girly" things and "boyish" things. Cause we all know that's BS because boys can be feminine and girls can be tomboys, whatever. Insert [long-winded spiel about the ridiculous, arbitrary and often toxic nature of gender norms] here.

But the spirit of breaking gender norms isn't to gatekeep, to say who is and isn't "really queer", it's to promote the idea that if those things make you feel more in touch with your authentic self, then do them, however you identify.

If you say you're a boy, but you like Barbies, then ta-dah. You're a boy, we believe you.

If you say you're a girl, but you like fixing cars, then boom. You're a girl, congrats.

If you're trans or non-binary or genderqueer, and you like things people expect your assigned gender to like because they genuinely make you happy, then shazam. You're not faking anything, you're trans enough, you don't have to prove shit. Same goes with liking things outside of what's considered "acceptable" for your assigned gender. 

Just a quick note while I wrap up, this isn't confrontational or accusatory. I was just hoping to make things a little bit clearer cause I was sensing some confusion happening here.

Otherwise, we don't take kindly to gender policing 'round these parts. Alright there, pardner? *double finger guns*
 

[Chimeric]

11 hours ago, Pixley said:

Otherwise, we don't take kindly to gender policing 'round these parts. Alright there, pardner? *double finger guns*

I'm not trying to police anyone's gender.

 

What does it mean to "feel" like a woman?

 

I am one and I have no friggen clue, so if someone has any enlightenment to share, I'm all ears.

[Ms. Carolynne]

11 hours ago, Chimeric said:

I'm not trying to police anyone's gender.

 

What does it mean to "feel" like a woman?

 

I am one and I have no friggen clue, so if someone has any enlightenment to share, I'm all ears.

I don't know either, I just have an innate sense that I am female, even though I have a male body. Ergo a trans woman.

 

Might I assume your gender is something that you just are? Seems most others (including both cis and trans individuals) I've discussed this with would agree, it's something they just are.

 

"Feeling" a gender is an oversimplification, it's not that simple. There's an entire experience to being trans. I can understand why that might be nebulous without any frame of reference.

 

I do know that being male feels wrong to me. In my mind, I am female. It's what feels right to me. It's also something I questioned deeply and a conclusion that took a lot of thought and sorting out repressed feelings to reach.

 

That may be the case with the OP. She mentions not wanting to be a guy, and wanting to be female. I understand where you're coming from when you say how one acts and dresses doesn't say anything about their gender. However, based on what she stated after you and @DisplayNames made your points, I think this person has reasonable grounds to question their gender.

 

I realize that probably doesn't explain it well. There was a thread about this awhile back, perhaps I'll go looking for it.

 

Edit : Here's a thread discussing it.

 

 

[fireball0093]

7 hours ago, Ms. Carolynne said:

I don't know either, I just have an innate sense that I am female, even though I have a male body. Ergo a trans woman.

 

7 hours ago, Ms. Carolynne said:

 

I do know that being male feels wrong to me. In my mind, I am female. It's what feels right to me. It's also something I questioned deeply and a conclusion that took a lot of thought and sorting out repressed feelings to reach.

 

7 hours ago, Ms. Carolynne said:

@DisplayNames

(Don't know how to edit this part out, still getting used to this forum software) -Fireball0093

 

 

This, right here. It's very similar to how I feel myself. I just don't feel like I'm meant to be a male, I almost never have except a very masculine part of my early high school years trying to suppress what I've always felt since I was young. I had a friend in my toddler years, Terra was her name. I always felt like I was her sister with how close we used to be, and not her brother. I always felt like a female cousin to all of my cousins, and not a male. I've always felt like a daughter to my mother, and not a son. It's truly difficult to try and put into words the deep feeling and sense of not feeling like I'm supposed to be a male.

[Chimeric]

15 hours ago, Ms. Carolynne said:

"Feeling" a gender is an oversimplification, it's not that simple. There's an entire experience to being trans. I can understand why that might be nebulous without any frame of reference.

I guess the thing I grapple with the most is if I, as a woman, have no clue what it means to be a woman, despite being a woman... how can someone who isn't female know what it means?

 

I'm not asking this as a means of critiquing you or telling you you can't possibly know what you feel, cus obviously you do. It's just a question I've struggled with for a long time.

 

Thank you both @Ms. Carolynne and @fireball0093 for your willingness to engage with me on this, I'm appreciating the respect immensely, and I hope I'm not insulting you with my questions, either, that very truly is not my intent.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

12 hours ago, Chimeric said:

I guess the thing I grapple with the most is if I, as a woman, have no clue what it means to be a woman, despite being a woman... how can someone who isn't female know what it means?

You've never been patronized because you're a woman? Never been told that you got where you are because of your looks, not because of your ability?

 

How about acting in the phallic narrcissistic manner of a Donald Trump? He's considered to be a man's man who takes no crap from anyone?

 

See where I'm going with this.........

[Chimeric]

53 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

You've never been patronized because you're a woman? Never been told that you got where you are because of your looks, not because of your ability?

 

How about acting in the phallic narrcissistic manner of a Donald Trump? He's considered to be a man's man who takes no crap from anyone?

 

See where I'm going with this.........

I have experienced this, but so have biological males that present as men.  Patronization, overcoming folks who judge you based on your looks rather than your competency, and navigating environments with narcissistic men (and also women, it isn't a monopoly) - these are universal struggles.

 

Honestly, I don't see where you're going with this, because these things don't make me a woman. The act of being patronized doesn't make me a woman. Being misconstrued based on how I present doesn't make me a woman. Being treated as inferior doesn't make me a woman. Feeling demeaned and objectified and bullied into submission doesn't make me feel particularly "womanly," it makes me feel demeaned and objectified and bullied. Men feel these things, too.

 

And, relatedly, objectifying women, demeaning them, belittling them are certainly not requisites to being "manly."

[Calligraphette_Coe]

3 hours ago, Chimeric said:

I have experienced this, but so have biological males that present as men.  Patronization, overcoming folks who judge you based on your looks rather than your competency, and navigating environments with narcissistic men (and also women, it isn't a monopoly) - these are universal struggles.

 

Honestly, I don't see where you're going with this, because these things don't make me a woman. The act of being patronized doesn't make me a woman. Being misconstrued based on how I present doesn't make me a woman. Being treated as inferior doesn't make me a woman. Feeling demeaned and objectified and bullied into submission doesn't make me feel particularly "womanly," it makes me feel demeaned and objectified and bullied. Men feel these things, too.

 

And, relatedly, objectifying women, demeaning them, belittling them are certainly not requisites to being "manly."

In a word, culture.

 

If you want to explore this on your own a bit better, I'd suggest you read Norah Vincent's 'Self Made Man'. She went 'undercover' for 18 months as a passable man and according to her, it put her in a mental institution for a few months. You don't even have to read the whole book, you can get the gist by reading the blurbs about it on Amazon or any Google search. BTW, paradoxically, she's extremely anti-transgender.

 

When I was younger, I used to pass pretty well. And like Vincent, the way your are treated and how you assimilate into a culture is like the difference between day and night. For one thing, you can make eye contact and smile at another woman without them going all homophobic on you. If you were to do a Norah Vincent, one of the first things you learn NOT to do is hold eye contact with another male for too long, if at all.

 

I have to go.... I serve as a caregiver to some people in my spare time and I'm about to be late. So  these snippets of thought are the best I can do for now. Maybe later. But I'll take a pass on doing that if you write back and say 'The only difference between a man and a woman is the biological difference between a man and a woman." I can only relate my experiences and feelings, and if they are found to be wanting, IDK what else to say.

[Chimeric]

2 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

if you write back and say 'The only difference between a man and a woman is the biological difference between a man and a woman."

I don't think this. I think the most obvious differences between men and women are biologic (and physiologic and endocrinologic and all of the related -ogics), and I think many of our general behaviors are heavily influenced by our species' natural history, but there are definitely differences between men and women that go beyond those things. I just struggle to identify from where the aspect of "manness" or "womanness" beyond biology arises. I know that they're there, but I don't know if I could ever really articulate what it would mean to feel like a woman - which is why I get so confused.

 

Are you saying that "manness" is behaving in accordance to a certain social script - like not holding eye contact for too long? That breaking with the norms that society has established for masculinity makes you less of a man?

 

I agree with you that societal norms for masculinity border on the absurd, and that there is - currently - little respite for gender nonconforming men (less than there is for gender nonconforming women, by a long shot, for sure). But where I get lost is the jump from not being the kind of man conscribed to the stereotypes society dictates, and not being a man.

 

And - is not feeling like a man sufficient for feeling like a woman?

 

I will look up that book, by the way. Very sincerely. It looks interesting, thank you.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

5 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

 

And - is not feeling like a man sufficient for feeling like a woman?

 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/12/issue-essay-line-dawkins

 

When the menu only has two choices and you can't split your order, your Happy Meal doesn't exactly come on as soul food, does it?

 

BTW, my first caregiver appointment today stood me up. 

[Chimeric]

26 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/12/issue-essay-line-dawkins

 

When the menu only has two choices and you can't split your order, your Happy Meal doesn't exactly come on as soul food, does it?

Isn't the insinuation that acting in discordance with the societal expectations of gender defaulting one to the opposite gender itself an example of discontinuity? Is the assumption that society gets to determine what a man must be?

 

30 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

BTW, my first caregiver appointment today stood me up. 

Ack, I'm sorry. =(

[Calligraphette_Coe]

1 hour ago, Chimeric said:

Isn't the insinuation that acting in discordance with the societal expectations of gender defaulting one to the opposite gender itself an example of discontinuity? Is the assumption that society gets to determine what a man must be?

 

Ack, I'm sorry. =(

I guess they overdid the oxycontin and overslept. I tried 3 hours later, still no answer. There was a message on my machine when I got home 5 minutes ago. It goes with the territory and you get used to it.

 

To answer your question, since 'society' holds all the cards, the discontinuity is a moot point. "It's the Golden Rule, the man with the gold makes the rules." ( Why isn't it 'the woman with the gold, yada yada yada?)

 

Are there any biological Christians or Muslims? And isn't it considered declasse'e to ask 'how does one feel Christian? You're not being logical!' All one has to do is make a declaration that they are, and they are.... and that's that. Black and White, Male and Female, True or False. You don't have to have surgery, take hormones and you don't grow an extra organ or have any of the ones you have change shape or function.

 

But nobody goes into a church and challenges them on it, right?

 

If you study the calculus, you learn about curve fitting, infitesimals and limits. One can never completely fit a line under a curve, but like in horeshoes and atomic hand grenades, close is good enough.

[Chimeric]

15 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Are there any biological Christians or Muslims?

No, of course not... but I'm not entirely sure how this relates.

 

I think my original question is getting lost, though. I'm just wondering still - how does one feel like a woman? You've given me analogies that suggest that feeling like a woman is to feel inferior, or is the state of mind of not being manly enough... Is this how you, as a transwoman, feel? Is this your definition of being a woman?

[Calligraphette_Coe]

1 hour ago, Chimeric said:

No, of course not... but I'm not entirely sure how this relates.

 

I think my original question is getting lost, though. I'm just wondering still - how does one feel like a woman? You've given me analogies that suggest that feeling like a woman is to feel inferior, or is the state of mind of not being manly enough... Is this how you, as a transwoman, feel? Is this your definition of being a woman?

What would you have me say?