Jump to content

Why does most advice try to make me the jerk?


glyders

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Sally said:

You probably don't realize how awful that sounds.   

 

And when you do get caught (because you will), what are you going to say to whoever finds out -- which will include any number of the people you know, including all those people who you don't want to lose by divorcing?  Because they will talk with each other, and you won't be the hero.  What will you say, "It's my wife's fault I was cheating!"  

Firstly to put the record straight I haven’t ever cheated. However, as with most things in life you judge things against your own moral compass. And what I think is this....

 

If my wife who I had regular sex with for the first couple of years continued to want regular sex and I didn’t (for whatever reason) and I continually rejected her and rejected her and excused myself and avoided sex and she ended up in bed with another man I would be really angry and upset. But I’d also think to myself, what did I think was going to happen?

And if I were to say to her “what on earth possessed you to do that” and she said “because you wouldn’t no matter how much I tried” I’d still be angry and upset but equally I’d be realistic and not consider myself a victim of her act because I contributed to the act happening. That’s my honest view if the shoe was on the other foot.

It baffles me as to why people continually reject their spouses and just expect it to have no impact.

90% of affairs that take place are not because people are arseholes, not because they are sex obsessed, not because they are bored, not because they are monsters but because one party is continually rejected and one day they happen across someone who shows them the attention they have been craving from their spouse for years. What do you expect? 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Logically you can't possibly know that everyone gets caught. That's just sententious nonsense like one of those embroidery samplers of Bible verses saying 'beware your sin will find you out'. 

I've never actually seen one of those embroidered Bible verses, Tel, because I don't do that Christian shit, but I'll take your word for it.  And it may indeed be sententious nonsense.  Many claims are.  For instance, the claim that asexuals must know that they are asexual and thus should not have married/become partnered with sexuals.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. That hit a bit of a run!

 

Just to clarify that in my case, I believe that my partner didn't know she was ace until long after we'd stopped physical intimacy. I also believe that her having sex to have children wasn't a conscious decision, rather that her hormone levels (or whatever) changed with the broodiness and made it an attractive thing for her. There is even the possibility that the hormone changes due to pregnancy/lactating caused a change to her baseline of sex-apathetic and changed it to sex-averse.  She has also had vertigo since having our first child, having previously been a climber, which is apparently not uncommon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, glyders said:

Wow. That hit a bit of a run!

 

Just to clarify that in my case, I believe that my partner didn't know she was ace until long after we'd stopped physical intimacy. I also believe that her having sex to have children wasn't a conscious decision, rather that her hormone levels (or whatever) changed with the broodiness and made it an attractive thing for her. There is even the possibility that the hormone changes due to pregnancy/lactating caused a change to her baseline of sex-apathetic and changed it to sex-averse.  She has also had vertigo since having our first child, having previously been a climber, which is apparently not uncommon.

From what I understand, asexuality is a sexual orientation. It sounds more like your partner has lost her libido. I thinks there’s a distinct difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/6/2019 at 1:43 AM, Telecaster68 said:

Logically you can't possibly know that everyone gets caught. That's just sententious nonsense like one of those embroidery samplers of Bible verses saying 'beware your sin will find you out'. 

If we're going to bring "logic" into this you must know that the vast majority of cheaters do a piss poor job of hiding it.  So yeah, in all likelihood, you will be found out sooner or later.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/20/2018 at 1:52 AM, uhtred said:

The importance of things varies with the person.  I generally take the approach of believing someone who says that something is necessary for them to be happy - no matter what that something is. Sometimes of course there may be no practical way for them to have the things that make them happy, but that doesn't make them any less important. 

 

Sometimes the things that make someone happy also come at a great cost (usually not money). Its up to them whether they are willing to pay that cost. 

 

I think all we can do here is to through discussion help people become more self-aware of what things are really important to them so that they can make the best decisions given the reality of their situation. 

...if a kid really wants a dog, but is allergic to it, then the answer is not getting a dog. The result would a worse allergy, perhaps having to get rid of the dog or living with a constant low lung capacity . (Not the rigth term, but will have to do now).

perhaps taking walks with a neighbours dog and playing outside could do the trick. Or getting another sort of pet. 

 

Point is, that the road to happiness/misery can be taken in many ways.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2019 at 9:58 PM, Philip027 said:

If we're going to bring "logic" into this you must know that the vast majority of cheaters do a piss poor job of hiding it.  So yeah, in all likelihood, you will be found out sooner or later.

I beleive, that it is hard to hide something which is of great importance. A breach of trust is not just an agreement which is not kept. If you find it easy to hide, then the importance of keeping it hidden to savour your relationship is probably also a bit off.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s still a risk - discovery, I mean - that needs to factor into the equation.  Someone who does not feel able to cope with the fallout of having an affair should not have one.  It’s the same basic thing as “if you’re unable to cope with addressing an unwanted pregnancy” (in whatever way(s) are available and acceptable to you), “you shouldn’t be having PIV sex.”  Pregnancy is a risk of PIV sex.  Getting caught is a risk of affairs, as is the general degradation of the primary relationship that can come with any breach of trust/barrier to emotional intimacy.

 

Doesn’t mean any given person shouldn’t (or should) do it; just that it’s wise to consider.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I own and do know how to operate a chain saw (many older trees per small amount of yard space).

 

One compounding problem with affairs is that by definition at least one other person knows... so you’re at risk of being found out not just due to your own actions but due to those of the affair partner (and whoever they may choose to tell).  There may be many affairs where one successfully keeps one’s primary partner in the dark but there are zero affairs where no one knows (possibly excepting things that happen online under an alias, glory hole activities, etc., where your identity could still potentially be discovered but not without a lot of work and perhaps a subpoena).

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2019 at 9:37 AM, CBC said:

Lotta assumptions about cheating and no actual data (and no way to really obtain any), thus "the vast majority" is a meaningless guess. Perhaps the vast majority actually don't get caught at all. Absolutely no way of knowing, thus pointless to speculate upon.

It's enough to know that it's common, and it wouldn't be known if it wasn't discovered somehow.  Don't think it's anywhere near as speculatory as you and Tele seem to think.

 

Bottom line, most cheaters are terribly bad at hiding it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's called making an educated guess based on evidence provided.

 

Dunno if you're trying to defend cheater behavior or what, but sorry that it usually isn't quite as opaque as you seem to think it is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@James121 For the record a person doesn't need to be sex deprived in their relationship to start cheating. My first husband was super great at cheating even though he got plenty of sex in our relationship. I still don't know why he was continuing to cheat throughout our marriage, maybe he likes the attention or maybe he was just a really crappy human being.  Who can say?

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, CBC said:

What's the "educated" part, though? What specific information is leading you to believe that the majority of cheaters are bad at hiding it?

The frequency at which you hear about it having happened.  To me, it's a lot.  And if I'm hearing about it, well, it's not exactly a well kept secret anymore, is it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it (discovery) is just a risk you have to factor in... especially because you can only control your own end of things.  You can’t control how cautious the affair partner is, how skillfully people on their end may snoop, or what they may do if they become angry with you/are put in a desperate situation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/5/2019 at 6:40 PM, anisotropic said:

Oh. I wonder if that actually makes it worse for you. 😕

I’m pretty sure I’m  in the same boat as @James121and it is worse - just took me a while to articulate why. The deepest fear I have is that if I were to leave, my wife might feel the need to find another relationship. To do that, she’s going to need to find a way to start having sex again. And she’ll dig deep and find it, even though she wasn’t able/willing to do that for me. 

 

I’m not saying it’s a *rational* fear. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I suppose I’m confused as well.  If your spouses aren’t ace, then the issue may be treatable through meds, therapy or other means, correct?  If a spouse refuses to attempt treatment for the betterment of everyone involved, then it can’t be healthy for anyone. Why stay in this type of relationship? 

 

In that scenario, we are talking about a potentially solvable problem with unwilling participants which is simply extreme dysfunction at its core.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the spouse isn’t ace, it could still be an unsolveable problem (at least within the relationship)... a difference in libido that has broadened over time, or one partner just not sexually attracted to the other (but not otherwise dissatisfied with the relationship enough to want to end it)...

Link to post
Share on other sites

The spouse isn't ace and still doesn't want to have sex with the other spouse, it could be that they just aren't that into you.  That's something that isn't really fixable.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SCPDX said:

I’m pretty sure I’m  in the same boat as @James121and it is worse - just took me a while to articulate why. The deepest fear I have is that if I were to leave, my wife might feel the need to find another relationship. To do that, she’s going to need to find a way to start having sex again. And she’ll dig deep and find it, even though she wasn’t able/willing to do that for me. 

 

I’m not saying it’s a *rational* fear. 

Not to make your fear worse.. but that fear isn't as irrational as you might think it is. 

 

I was in one relationship for a year, one for 6 months, one for 2 years, one for 10 years (married). Through all of these relationships, I didn't enjoy sexual interaction. In fact, my first time having sex, I was left with "That's what the fuss is about?" and "That hurt... why do people like that...". The rest of the times it was "OK, this is boring" to "Gross" etc. First time I had sex was at 15, my first marriage ended when I was 30. I tried basically everything, I cared about my partners, I liked to kiss/cuddle and all that but I just could not figure out a "trigger" for sex with any of them that would make me actually want it. But, giving for them satisfied the shorter relationships, to the point when I told some of my exes (I stay in contact with some and we're friends) that I thought I was ace, their reaction was "No you aren't". I was enthusiastic as a partner, because I got told over and over again that I just had to find what I liked to trigger desire, it was normal, etc so I kept trying with them, failing, going to get advice on what I did wrong and then trying more. The longer one I just couldn't keep up the regular sex that long. It stopped being tolerable about 5 years in, I'd exhausted all advice, I was just so sick of trying at that point. 

 

So... I finally, finally got my ex to accept I am just not into sex, never have been. I swore off sexual partners and got with someone on AVEN who was fine with no sex. I thought I had my life all sorted. 

 

.... and then I actually, for the first time in my life, developed sexual attraction to my AVEN partner. Go figure. It worked out cause she's attracted to me as well, but. I'm pretty sure if I told my exes I'm now happily sexual with my new spouse, so it really was a wrong partner thing in the end (turns out my sexual attraction and romantic attraction are very separate and romantic can easily trigger without the sexual side, while the sexual side is hard to trigger in me but still possible) they would be pretty hurt. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty dicey to assure your marriage partner that if you look for and find an outside sexual partner, that will not endanger the marriage relationship, and you will not leave your marriage partner -- because it does happen.  No one can prevent themselves from falling in love with someone, and if that someone means love and sex are in the same "package", that will definitely affect the marriage.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sally said:

It's pretty dicey to assure your marriage partner that if you look for and find an outside sexual partner, that will not endanger the marriage relationship, and you will not leave your marriage partner -- because it does happen.  No one can prevent themselves from falling in love with someone, and if that someone means love and sex are in the same "package", that will definitely affect the marriage.  

Does happen, but whereas most people who transition from mono to open fear it's the reason behind transition (well, if it's not a mutual interest anyway) ... that is an unfounded worry. Opening things up to poly is a thing people do because they feel they can do both, sometimes they are wrong. But, when you transition, you can easily assure your spouse "I have every intention of staying married to you, I just need sex and we are not compatible in that way. If we open things up, maybe we can find a way for us both to be happy by removing this stress from our relationship." 

 

Whereas... default for most people is "Another person means they will leave me right away" as if that's the whole intention behind finding someone else. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
On 2/21/2019 at 2:20 PM, SCPDX said:

To do that, she’s going to need to find a way to start having sex again. And she’ll dig deep and find it, even though she wasn’t able/willing to do that for me. 

That’s because for most people (not all) having sex is actually not that difficult if we are correctly motivated to have it. This is the exact reason that 99% of men will report that when they started trying for babies, their partners went from sex once in a blue moon to sex almost every moon. It’s simply about whether someone is motivated or not. Your partner isn’t motivated to have it. She says no, you are still there, you still show her love and affection, financially contribute/support her. There’s nothing lost for her so she just selfishly says....

 

 

no thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...