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glyders

Why does most advice try to make me the jerk?

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Alone with someone

I really see a lot of the same advice as the original poster. Now I will qualify that by saying that most of it was not from this site. The problem seems to stem from a mutual inability to truly grasp the position of the other side. Most of the articles I’ve read, and there have been a lot, come from the point of view of the ace author. Common suggestions are:

 

1. Engage in masterbation more: Let me tell you, my asexual friends, why this ain’t gonna cut it. I shall use your cake analogy if I may. Imagine you want a piece of really good cake. Moist, perfect ratio of frosting to cake, the kind of cake you see in cooking magazines. Now imagine you are only given a hostess cupcake. The cupcake will do for now, but a steady diet of cupcakes only makes the desire for that wonderful gateaux even stronger.

 

2. Try an open relationship: This only works if your partner is willing. In my case my partner is asexual, but not aromantic. She still believes in marital fidelity because she does not need to look outside of the relationship to fill a relationship based need. Therefore, by that standard any extramarital activity I engage in is cheating. 

 

3. Find a sexual compromise: Okay, most of us that are sexual would like our partner to be more intimate in a physical way. Some of us have sex abhorrent partners. Some of our life mates are lesser degree aces. At the stage in my relationship im at now, im not going to pressure her into sex. The last time we tried to do anything remotely physical I couldn’t even maintain an erection because I knew she was really happy doing it. We’re not all selfish quasi-rapists, although I’m sure there are those out there too.

 

4. Leave: Um...no. I think many of us that are in a position like the original poster and myself have insuperable bonds with our partners ranging from the fiscal to the parental and all points between. Also leaving would needs be explained. I don’t want to look the bad guy, leaving because she didn’t want me, and I don’t want to out her to anyone else (her family, our friends, the children) if she’s not ready to cop to her sexual identity.

 

5. Learn to readjust where your sense of fulfillment comes from: This is my favorite. I’m sorry but this particular statement is just as selfish as me looking at an ace and saying “find a way to feel sexually aroused.” Those of us who are sexual, are wired to be sexual, the same way an asexual person is wired to not be sexual. We can try to learn to live with out it, but we can’t just take up tennis to fill that physical need. 

 

I’m sure that there is some cogent way to deal with a mixed relationship, but I don’t know what it is. I understand her struggle, I’ve struggled with my own pansexuality for years before coming to grips with it. I just want to find some decent advice that doesn’t tell me to either suck it up, be a douche, or leave. Is that too much to ask?

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ryn2
3 hours ago, Alone with someone said:

I just want to find some decent advice that doesn’t tell me to either suck it up, be a douche, or leave. Is that too much to ask?

Most people on both sides of the equation would love a solution that makes both partners happy enough... but those really are the  options for (both halves of) mixed couples.  Even the happiest ones have typically gotten there by a combo of sucking up and being the least douchy douche possible.

 

Nothing’s going to magically make the sexual ace or the ace sexual, unfortunately.

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glyders

Just checking in, really. Wish I could predict when things were going to start hurting again, but I know I'm in a bad place when I find myself back here.

 

I guess I don't find any of the advice of leaving and finding someone else, or staying and finding someone else, any help because that ain't gonna happen. I'm not the kind of person with the looks, personality or ability to start conversations that will get someone else. I'm amazingly lucky I have my partner even with the problem we have.

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James121
On 8/26/2018 at 6:30 PM, glyders said:

She says she only sees the point of sex in order to get children and now she has the two she wanted.

And she was ok with sex to get what she wanted? 

 

On 8/26/2018 at 6:30 PM, glyders said:

So why does virtually all the advice centre on those avenues?

There’s one more option which is for her to allow you to fuck who you like. Most spouses won’t do that because for some reason they are against having sex but against allowing their partner to seek sex elsewhere so open marriages are rare.

 

The bottom line is that this should be a crime. To steal someone’s life like this, to have sex with them under false pretences of being comfortable but then announce otherwise after the desired children have arrived is comparable with some of the worst crimes one can commit.

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James121
On 8/26/2018 at 8:12 PM, Scottthespy said:

 

I am shocked that you would get 'have an affair' advice from professionals...that's disturbing.

 

Why is that? What’s the other option? Let me guess....just leave or tolerate it?

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James121
On 11/17/2018 at 7:49 AM, Alone with someone said:

1. Engage in masterbation more: 

A better analogy that I have is that sex is like a conversation between two bodies. Masturbation is like talking to yourself. Who wants to talk to yourself all the time?

 

On 11/17/2018 at 7:49 AM, Alone with someone said:

2. Try an open relationship:

Most spouses don’t agree to this. They’d rather say “I don’t want sex and thus you aren’t having sex either”.

 

On 11/17/2018 at 7:49 AM, Alone with someone said:

3. Find a sexual compromise: 

By definition of asexuality, it’s impossible to find a compromise. You might have some sex here and there but you’ll never have sex with someone who wanted to.

 

On 11/17/2018 at 7:49 AM, Alone with someone said:

4. Leave

But you won’t be leaving just you sexless marriage you’ll be leaving your life as you know it including your children, house and anything else you can think of.

 

On 11/17/2018 at 7:49 AM, Alone with someone said:

5. Learn to readjust where your sense of fulfillment comes from: This is my favorite. I’m sorry but this particular statement is just as selfish as me looking at an ace and saying “find a way to feel sexually aroused.” Those of us who are sexual, are wired to be sexual, the same way an asexual person is wired to not be sexual. We can try to learn to live with out it, but we can’t just take up tennis to fill that physical need. 

I agree with you completely.

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SusannaC

Oh come on James... I just watched a documentary on Ted Bundy- serial killer.  Now those were some of the “worst crimes” I can imagine.  Even I must put my sexless marriage into perspective:  the desire to have sex for children only can be called selfish, self centered and greedy.  This is hurtful, sure, but not a “crime”.... caused me years of confusion and pain, but didn’t break me or cause me physical & permanent pain.  You are angry- just as I was.  You are dramatizing in a somewhat entertaining and brow raising fashion....😝  You are disillusioned perhaps, with marriage.  Asexual people are CAPABLE of feeling, showing and expressing love for their mates, unfortunately not the forms we so often desire and need.  Each of us have choices to make- whether some of us choose to attempt a  “compromise” is a personal decision.  Just as my “ decision” to seek sex outside of this marriage was a personal and long thought out decision.  My choice. My burden.  My relief.

Edited by SusannaC
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James121
2 hours ago, SusannaC said:

caused me years of confusion and pain,

And will you get those years back? How much will a divorce set you back? I know in the uk it’s fairly traditional for mum to retain any children, the house (because she has the children) and receive child maintenance meaning often, if a man decides to leave he literally financially cripples himself. Nice choices there!  And for what? Because after the children were born an asexual person announces that they no longer wish to participate in sex because they have their children!

 

Maybe not Ted Bundy but it’s a fairly expensive and cruel deception that can and does take years of someone’s life.

 

The true definition of a choice should be making a decision about what you want to do.

When someone removes sex you are left with options to choose from. You choose from what’s left and it’s not a true choice it’s picking the best of the worst options left. 

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anisotrophic

@James121 have you talked to a therapist? A lawyer? Talked to your partner about asexuality or your unhappiness with sexual rejection? Tried couples therapy? Have you investigated how trapped you actually are? It feels like you spend a lot of time on AVEN using your experience as evidence for opinions but say nothing about trying various things to improve your situation. It sometimes seems like you're committed to throwing a perpetual personal pity party.

Edited by anisotropic
correct username
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SusannaC

I suspect James is angry because he must make a choice from the above stated undesirable options.  For some of us (myself included), acting on my choices took Years.  Anger, resentment, bargaining, denial- all came before.  

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ryn2
1 hour ago, James121 said:

And will you get those years back? How much will a divorce set you back? I know in the uk it’s fairly traditional for mum to retain any children, the house (because she has the children) and receive child maintenance meaning often, if a man decides to leave he literally financially cripples himself. Nice choices there!  And for what? Because after the children were born an asexual person announces that they no longer wish to participate in sex because they have their children!

How is that different from any other incompatibility (including just plain “falling out of love”) that ends a marriage?

 

My partner made the choice for me and here the laws don’t favor the woman so I’m being set back so far financially that I will never recover.  While you can bet I don’t like it, it’s hardly a crime.

 

Sometimes - a lot of times, from the divorce stats - we enter into partnerships we expect will be lifelong, and then conduct our lives as though those partnerships are lifelong, and then they’re... not.  We get burned.  It sucks but that’s often life.

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MrDane

I wonder how many couples, where one person jumps out of the closet and find themselves belonging better in the homosexual community, will stay together. It seems quite a normal reaction, to leave and start a new life and end the old. In most cases, sexuality is a drive towards something/someone. It would even be odd to expect a homosexual to keep having vanilla heterosexual sex, even if they still love that person.

 

...but sometimes a solution needs to be found, in order for both to stay and to stay sane and happy. To me, it is important that my wife wants to help with finding the best solution and wants to work on keeping us as a loving couple.

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SusannaC

Not all people are able to find a compromise such as yours, Mr Dane.  You are blessed in this way, to have a wife who also truly wants to make a happy marriage for BOTH.  Perhaps you’ve communicated effectively or she is more willing to hear....who knows... but for many such endings aren’t always possible.

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anisotrophic
29 minutes ago, MrDane said:

I wonder how many couples, where one person jumps out of the closet and find themselves belonging better in the homosexual community, will stay together. It seems quite a normal reaction, to leave and start a new life and end the old. In most cases, sexuality is a drive towards something/someone. It would even be odd to expect a homosexual to keep having vanilla heterosexual sex, even if they still love that person.

 

...but sometimes a solution needs to be found, in order for both to stay and to stay sane and happy. To me, it is important that my wife wants to help with finding the best solution and wants to work on keeping us as a loving couple.

I researched this almost immediately, and found the Straight Spouses Network. http://www.straightspouse.org/test-2-home/faq/coming-out-disclosure-suspicion/questions-about-staying-together/

It didn't seem very useful for ace/allo... but it seems like there must be a lot of experiences out there.... In the case of homosexuality, if someone is clearly attracted to the other gender, yeah -- it's hard to imagine sustaining sexuality! And from what I saw on that site, they do usually quit sexual relations (with each other) if they stay married. But also, the rate of staying together isn't high -- presumably a gay spouse wants to find a same sex partner.

On the other hand, someone who continues to "compromise" while exclusively seeking same-sex relations outside the marriage seems likely to identify as "bisexual" but behaving like a "compromising mostly homosexual". I wonder what's what here, and if such behaviors end up influencing the identities a spouse identifies with.

And... I wouldn't want to sustain sex if I knew my partner found other people attractive... and NOT me. If it were a gender thing, I'd be happy to make a switch. Sad laugh. Oh well.

Also... I don't think I've seen mixed gay/straight couples talk about the split attraction model and whether a gay partner was bi or hetero romantic. I think I'd be interested in hearing them reflect on that!

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Scottthespy
18 hours ago, James121 said:

Why is that? What’s the other option? Let me guess....just leave or tolerate it?

Talking with your partner and working out a solution that works for both of you, like mature adults? Open relationships, toy usage, hiring of a prostitute, there are so many options other than 'cheat'. If you're lying and getting emotionally and/or sexually involved with other people without your partner's knowledge, that relationship is already over, there's no trust there. Leaving so both partners can be true to themselves is a mature decision, cheating is childish and damaging to everyone involved. Its not even an option.

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James121
6 hours ago, Scottthespy said:

Open relationships,

So everything a marriage isn’t supposed to be?

6 hours ago, Scottthespy said:

toy usage

So have sex with a piece of rubber?

6 hours ago, Scottthespy said:

hiring of a prostitute

Are you actually kidding me? I’m married but I have to hire a prostitute!

6 hours ago, Scottthespy said:

that relationship is already over

If you have to resort to the above, then it’s arguably over. In fact the moment an asexual enters a relationship with someone who doesn’t match their sexuality it’s arguably over.

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James121
15 hours ago, ryn2 said:

How is that different from any other incompatibility (including just plain “falling out of love”) that ends a marriage?

Falling out of love means you were *in love* to begin with. It’s a change of feeling. 

How is asexuality a change of feeling? It isn’t. They are not alike as asexuality was there from the start so therefore it was different.

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ryn2
1 hour ago, James121 said:

Falling out of love means you were *in love* to begin with. It’s a change of feeling. 

How is asexuality a change of feeling? It isn’t. They are not alike as asexuality was there from the start so therefore it was different.

Presumably at some point early in the relationship you had okay sex or you would not have stayed to begin with, so either that changed or your tolerance for going without it did.

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James121
2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Presumably at some point early in the relationship you had okay sex or you would not have stayed to begin with, so either that changed or your tolerance for going without it did.

That’s pretty much the story that most of the frustrated and confused sexual people end up on aven with. We used to and one day.....

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ryn2
21 minutes ago, James121 said:

That’s pretty much the story that most of the frustrated and confused sexual people end up on aven with. We used to and one day.....

...which sucks, like I said, but it’s not substantially different from the other used to/one day things that end relationships.  Things change.  Things you hope will change don’t.  It’s still not criminal.

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James121
32 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

...which sucks, like I said, but it’s not substantially different from the other used to/one day things that end relationships.  Things change.  Things you hope will change don’t.  It’s still not criminal.

I think all comes down to how much a person knew from the start. Did a true change take place or did someone just reveal who they really are down the line. If it’s the latter, I maintain it’s a deception.

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Scottthespy
6 hours ago, James121 said:

So everything a marriage isn’t supposed to be?

So have sex with a piece of rubber?

Are you actually kidding me? I’m married but I have to hire a prostitute!

If you have to resort to the above, then it’s arguably over. In fact the moment an asexual enters a relationship with someone who doesn’t match their sexuality it’s arguably over.

Not every one sees love, relationships, and marriage in the same way. There are many relationships that these things strengthen. Other partners can give insight and ideas you didn't think of, and plenty of toys are couples toys, which would allow a sex neutral asexual to pleasure their partner without getting their own bits involved. And if hiring a prostitute with the knowledge and consent of your partner while married is a terrible thing, how is cheating better? That's still you needing to go to some one else for your sex, and in this case its doing it behind your partners back. If you're going to do that, why not break up and get with the person you were going to cheat with, since you clearly have more compatibility with them?

 

 I'm not saying all these things are for everyone...just that cheating is never an option. If open relationships don't work for you and sex is a necessity for you, yes, you should leave that relationship, because its only going to end up wearing on both partners and turn the relationship into something bitter and resentful and mistrustful. Better to leave on good terms with fond memories than waste years languishing in a festering relationship where the partners have fundamental incompatibilities. 

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ryn2
1 hour ago, James121 said:

I think all comes down to how much a person knew from the start. Did a true change take place or did someone just reveal who they really are down the line. If it’s the latter, I maintain it’s a deception.

Suppose you’re right and your wife knew all along that she hated sex.  She was just using you to get kids and a place to live.

 

How does knowing that change anything for the better?  You’ve said elsewhere that you have no interest in a divorce.  If you could

somehow get an annulment because you had proof she lied, would you take all the assets and walk away?  If not, what do you actually gain versus thinking she acted in good faith too?

 

If you’re staying together regardless how is it better to assume the worst about one another?

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James121
1 hour ago, Scottthespy said:

I'm not saying all these things are for everyone...just that cheating is never an option. If open relationships don't work for you and sex is a necessity for you, yes, you should leave that relationship

I think the issue here is that we have to be realistic about how many people are actually willing to open their marriage up and allow their partner to seek sex elsewhere. I would bet my left leg on the percentage being incredibly low! 

So then you are left with...

Have no sex

Leave or

cheat 

Well having no sex is unfair and just as unrealistic as an asexual being expected to have sex every other day. It just doesn’t work.

Then you have leave. But you aren’t just leaving a sexless marriage you are you leaving everything. Children, house, dog, cat, financial stability, potentially friendships...

Then there’s cheat. Certainly not ideal but then again, neither are the others.

 

Lets reverse the leave idea for a second. The person not wanting sex goes! They leave their house, their children, their dog, cat and home comforts. That option is never even entertained on this forum because they (the refusing partner) are quite happy just to say, I don’t want sex and short of forcing someone which no one wants to do, what option do you have?

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James121
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

Suppose you’re right and your wife knew all along that she hated sex.  She was just using you to get kids and a place to live.

 

How does knowing that change anything for the better?  You’ve said elsewhere that you have no interest in a divorce.  If you could

somehow get an annulment because you had proof she lied, would you take all the assets and walk away?  If not, what do you actually gain versus thinking she acted in good faith too?

 

If you’re staying together regardless how is it better to assume the worst about one another?

Well I’m speaking hypothetically because I don’t believe my wife is asexual but...

 

If someone who doesn’t like sex, has sex and uses another for children and then removes sex, don’t you think that’s disgraceful? I see that in the same light as someone who cannot have children, pretending they can and having sex 5 times a week with their partner for 10 years before announcing....by the way, the reason you haven’t got pregnant is...

Now you can leave if you like. Thanks for the last 10 years 👌

 

 

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ryn2

Any incompatibility is grounds to leave a relationship but, if you’re determined not to leave it, what good does assuming the worst about one another do?

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ryn2
11 minutes ago, James121 said:

I think the issue here is that we have to be realistic about how many people are actually willing to open their marriage up and allow their partner to seek sex elsewhere. I would bet my left leg on the percentage being incredibly low! 

In cases where a partner is unwilling to open the marriage, cheating is just delaying the same outcome that would happen (faster) if the other partner insisted.

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James121
7 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

In cases where a partner is unwilling to open the marriage, cheating is just delaying the same outcome that would happen (faster) if the other partner insisted.

That relies on the idea that you get caught.

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ryn2
1 hour ago, James121 said:

That relies on the idea that you get caught.

People do get caught often enough that the potential outcome if they do - a breakup where, under at least some legal systems, they have put themselves at greater disadvantage - should factor into their decisions.

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anisotrophic
3 hours ago, James121 said:

I don’t believe my wife is asexual

this is just to say...

I AM SO CONFUSED NOW

 

😵

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