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majace

Sex outside the marriage without developing feelings?

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majace

Hi all,

Those of you sexuals who are getting your sex from outside your marriage without falling in love with the new person, please enlighten us with how you do it? Do you think this is even possible? If it's possible, how do you do it to prevent feelings from developing? For example, do you have sex with one regular person or a variety of people? Do you put a limit on the frequency? etc.

Thanks :) 

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Nowhere Girl

I have no experience in such situations, but perhaps developing feelings doesn't have to be a threat? For example, if your partner would have sex with someone who is your mutual friend and keep it on a "friends with benefits" basis? Of course my perspective is skewed: I'm able to accept "friends with benefits", but I don't accept casual sex. This is why I try to suggest other solutions.

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uhtred

I think it works for some people but not others.  A lot of people think that they can have sex without developing feelings, but find that they were wrong.  I think this is especially true when the primary relationship is mixed asexual / sexual.  It would be very easy for the outside relationship to develop.

 

Its really unfortunate, but just one more reason that mixed relationships are very unlikely to be happy for both people.  (they can be happy for one if that person has limited empathy for the feelings of their partner). 

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ChainReact

I don’t really have experience with this, but it is something I would really like to try. For right now, I think that it’s very possible to have sex without developing other feelings, but it would really depend on the particular sexual partner. On the other hand, I think that the sex would be better if there was some emotional build up to the sexual encounter. I don’t think that having feelings for another person that you are having sex with should be viewed as necessary a threat to the primary relationship if that relationship has a strong enough foundation, especially if the outside relationships are pursued with the goal of keeping them secondary in mind. But who knows? I might find that if I have sex outside of the primary relationship that I would be much happier finding a new relationship that meets all of my needs to replace the primary one. If that happened, at least I would know what it is that I need to be happy and to pursue that, rather than developing a sense of resentment in the primary relationship until it withers away. 

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MrDane

This is a huge fear of mine. Having to deal with, if my ace-wife one days cant/wont participate in more sex, since she no longer benefits enough or is perhaps getting bored or just had too much. I want to keep her and my family together. I also want sex. A no is a no and is not to be discussed. I would never cheat.

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SG100084

Let me put it this way… cross that bridge when you come to it.

If your wife freezes up completely on you at some point in the future and won't let you go elsewhere, then she is showing you zero respect. No marriage can survive this. If you are willing to respect her need to be left alone, then she has to respect your need to be with others. End of. It took me far too many years to articulate this properly to my wife and it took me to a point where I thought I was the problem.

But if she is still making the effort, then don't try and fix it as it's not broken enough that you need to repair it yet.


 

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anamikanon
9 hours ago, majace said:

Those of you sexuals who are getting your sex from outside your marriage without falling in love with the new person, please enlighten us with how you do it? Do you think this is even possible?

I don't know if it is possible to plan. More importantly, I wouldn't want to have sex with someone I don't care about. Even as a second or third or fifteenth partner, I would definitely want it to be someone I care about and want to get closer to. It is among my reasons for not seeking another partner though my ace is perfectly fine with it. I simply don't have the bandwidth to add another person to my life.

9 hours ago, majace said:

If it's possible, how do you do it to prevent feelings from developing? For example, do you have sex with one regular person or a variety of people? Do you put a limit on the frequency? etc.

The only feasible way I had considered for having a tangle-free sexual experience was when I considered using the services of a male prostitute. I didn't go through with it, but keeping things professional may be one way of not letting it get personal.

 

In the end I didn't go with it because what I really thirst for is having a no holds barred experience of attraction and sex again. Where I don't have to worry about whether the sex is "too much" for my partner, etc. I could have it with a prostitute, I suppose, but it holds no appeal unless I cared about the prostitute - in which case why limit myself to prostitutes?

 

And... back to square one, where there is so much happening in my life that I don't want to add another person to it right now.

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Serran
1 hour ago, SG100084 said:



If your wife freezes up completely on you at some point in the future and won't let you go elsewhere, then she is showing you zero respect. No marriage can survive this. If you are willing to respect her need to be left alone, then she has to respect your need to be with others. End of. It took me far too many years to articulate this properly to my wife and it took me to a point where I thought I was the problem.


 

Uhm. No. Respecting your partners feelings doesnt mean either be miserable doing what you cant stand or be miserable being in a non-monogamous relationship if you arent poly inclined. It means accepting there is a need you cant fulfill and figuring out what that means. Which can mean you just arent compatible. But by no means does not being OK with sex or poly make it disrespect. Just difference and incompatibility. Not everyone can handle poly or open. And sex long term that you hate is hard to sustain. 

 

As for OP - I dont think you can guarantee no feelings. Unless its a one night never see them again thing. 

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Sally

I have experience with this as my partner had an outside relationship for several years decades ago.  It only lasted several years for various reasons, but he developed feelings and so did she.  You cannot -- absolutely CANNOT -- guarantee or even guess that feelings will not develop, or that the relationship will be "sex only".   That's why outside relationships can't work unless both partners are in agreement that a third person will be part of their relationship.  

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Lara Black

I’ve had some experience with open relationships. My ex-husband was much more sexual than me, so he looked for sex partners outside our relationships. And I concur – there are no guarantees that one wouldn’t fall in love with a more or less random sex partner. My ex did – more than once.

One can, however, “return” from a crush – if one values marriage a lot and is ready to treat a crush as a temporary sickness or an emotional storm that has to be waited through. Still, it’s not something reliable.

Basically, opening a relationship means redefining it. The new kind isn’t for everybody – it has its upsides and its problems.

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majace
20 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

I have no experience in such situations, but perhaps developing feelings doesn't have to be a threat? For example, if your partner would have sex with someone who is your mutual friend and keep it on a "friends with benefits" basis? Of course my perspective is skewed: I'm able to accept "friends with benefits", but I don't accept casual sex. This is why I try to suggest other solutions.

I've thought a lot about a mutual friend, but it scares me a lot. It feels like a threat to me as this is not something I was willing to accept in the first place and to share my husband. So I can't imagine constantly seeing the person in front of me. I prefer to not be involved and know and hear less. Although if I'm not having sex, I'm not sharing it technically, but I'm still sharing what comes with the sex... and that is just so hard for me to constantly be reminded of.

Also, if it's a mutual friend, I don't see how it can be friends with benefits anymore as I thought FWB don't have feelings towards each other... :-S

However, I completely understand how one can prefer a (mutual) friends with benefits arrangement to casual sex...

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majace
18 hours ago, uhtred said:

I think it works for some people but not others.  A lot of people think that they can have sex without developing feelings, but find that they were wrong.  I think this is especially true when the primary relationship is mixed asexual / sexual.  It would be very easy for the outside relationship to develop.

 

Its really unfortunate, but just one more reason that mixed relationships are very unlikely to be happy for both people.  (they can be happy for one if that person has limited empathy for the feelings of their partner). 

 

12 hours ago, ChainReact said:

I don’t really have experience with this, but it is something I would really like to try. For right now, I think that it’s very possible to have sex without developing other feelings, but it would really depend on the particular sexual partner. On the other hand, I think that the sex would be better if there was some emotional build up to the sexual encounter. I don’t think that having feelings for another person that you are having sex with should be viewed as necessary a threat to the primary relationship if that relationship has a strong enough foundation, especially if the outside relationships are pursued with the goal of keeping them secondary in mind. But who knows? I might find that if I have sex outside of the primary relationship that I would be much happier finding a new relationship that meets all of my needs to replace the primary one. If that happened, at least I would know what it is that I need to be happy and to pursue that, rather than developing a sense of resentment in the primary relationship until it withers away. 

It all sounds a lot like before marriage, where people had boyfriends and girlfriends. Naturally, some worked out and some didn't. I do fear that if one finds good sex outside the marriage, and also finds a wonderful attitude or personality in the person as well, why would they keep the hassle of two relationships anymore? Over time, they'd simply choose the one that has the whole package.

 

13 hours ago, MrDane said:

This is a huge fear of mine. Having to deal with, if my ace-wife one days cant/wont participate in more sex, since she no longer benefits enough or is perhaps getting bored or just had too much. I want to keep her and my family together. I also want sex. A no is a no and is not to be discussed. I would never cheat.

4

 

This sounds like our situation at this point in time. We want to keep the family, but can't keep on having sex (I can't keep up, and he can't see me force myself into it). I hope you don't reach this point, but if you do, your wife may think about opening up the marriage herself in order to try and save it. But it all sounds so contradictory, and I am freaking out that things will fall apart, although, if we do nothing, things will still fall apart, ugh.

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majace
On 8/23/2018 at 2:36 AM, anamikanon said:

The only feasible way I had considered for having a tangle-free sexual experience was when I considered using the services of a male prostitute. I didn't go through with it, but keeping things professional may be one way of not letting it get personal.

In the end I didn't go with it because what I really thirst for is having a no holds barred experience of attraction and sex again. Where I don't have to worry about whether the sex is "too much" for my partner, etc. I could have it with a prostitute, I suppose, but it holds no appeal unless I cared about the prostitute - in which case why limit myself to prostitutes?

Prostitutes are also what I had thought about A LOT, especially when my husband used to say he can have sex without developing feelings. But I have insisted to him, a lot, that this just theoretically doesn't make sense.

Later on, after thinking about it for a while, he told me that if he has to pay for sex, it won't work because if the person doesn't want to genuinely have sex with him and wants money for it in return, it's a similar scenario to what he has with me, where he is not wanted, sexually.

On 8/23/2018 at 9:35 AM, Sally said:

I have experience with this as my partner had an outside relationship for several years decades ago.  It only lasted several years for various reasons, but he developed feelings and so did she.  You cannot -- absolutely CANNOT -- guarantee or even guess that feelings will not develop, or that the relationship will be "sex only".   That's why outside relationships can't work unless both partners are in agreement that a third person will be part of their relationship.  

 
On 8/23/2018 at 12:34 PM, Lara Black said:

I’ve had some experience with open relationships. My ex-husband was much more sexual than me, so he looked for sex partners outside our relationships. And I concur – there are no guarantees that one wouldn’t fall in love with a more or less random sex partner. My ex did – more than once.

One can, however, “return” from a crush – if one values marriage a lot and is ready to treat a crush as a temporary sickness or an emotional storm that has to be waited through. Still, it’s not something reliable.

2

When we define ourselves as asexuals, we say that for us, love is separate from sex, but for sexuals, love is not separate. So this all theoretically makes complete sense and there is no guarantee whatsoever. But I somehow still want to think that with some rules and boundaries things MAY be better. Like having multiple FWBs, and no other contact in between sessions, etc. 

I think I sound desperate and funny.

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ryn2
13 minutes ago, majace said:

I do fear that if one finds good sex outside the marriage, and also finds a wonderful attitude or personality in the person as well, why would they keep the hassle of two relationships anymore? Over time, they'd simply choose the one that has the whole package.

This largely depends on whether or not the person is naturally mono or polyamorous.

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ryn2
1 minute ago, majace said:

But I somehow still want to think that with some rules and boundaries things MAY be better.

Do you have any wants or needs that are going unmet within the marriage?  Would your partner be okay with your taking on a secondary partner to address that?  If so, maybe you would feel less unhappy about your partner getting sex from a secondary partner.

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majace
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

This largely depends on whether or not the person is naturally mono or polyamorous.

We are definitely naturally mono. We never wanted this and are forcefully thinking about it now.

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Do you have any wants or needs that are going unmet within the marriage?  Would your partner be okay with your taking on a secondary partner to address that?  If so, maybe you would feel less unhappy about your partner getting sex from a secondary partner.

No I really have no other needs and my hubby is my soulmate. Now that we are in this position, he would have been ok I think if I wanted another partner for whatever reason. 

I feel ok about him getting just sex elsewhere, as that is what I can't offer well. But I feel bad about all the rest. The feelings, the cuddles, the kisses... I feel bad about what I do offer being shared as it goes along with the sex, naturally... :(

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ryn2
47 minutes ago, majace said:

We are definitely naturally mono.

The problem, if that’s the case, is that naturally monogamous people usually (always, by definition?) fall out of love with one person when they fall in love with another.  As others have said there is no way to guarantee not falling in love with someone you are having sex with, so opening the relationship could result in the sexual partner moving on.

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anamikanon
2 hours ago, majace said:

We are definitely naturally mono. We never wanted this and are forcefully thinking about it now.

Frankly, I think this is a very good idea. My ace is very supportive of me finding other partners as well, and in his words "You're more likely to dump me out of frustration than you are because of someone else. If you're sexually satisfied and we are happy together, it will actually strengthen us"

 

That said, we were never mono and I never promised him monogamy from the word go itself, so he never had any expectation that I wouldn't have another lover. This is different from if you both are possessive about each other. You may need to talk through this a lot first. More below.

 

2 hours ago, majace said:

No I really have no other needs and my hubby is my soulmate. Now that we are in this position, he would have been ok I think if I wanted another partner for whatever reason. 

I have often thought that my ace may appreciate a romantic relationship where the partner didn't expect sex at all, so he had some sex-free intimacy space, so to say, where he can get close all he wants without worrying that his partner may expect more. He says he isn't interested, but that's probably because his one attempt at another partner went really badly (it was sexual - he didn't know he was ace and was... experimenting)

 

2 hours ago, majace said:

I feel ok about him getting just sex elsewhere, as that is what I can't offer well. But I feel bad about all the rest. The feelings, the cuddles, the kisses... I feel bad about what I do offer being shared as it goes along with the sex, naturally... :(

This is something the two of you need to talk about seriously. If you are wired mono, having another partner can cause all sorts of turbulence (frankly, it can cause for poly people too). A particular risk is that if someone is mono, they don't have another partner, because their brains don't work that way - they move on and switch their intimate attentions to the new person. I'm pretty sure this is not a desired result.

 

And of course issues with jealousy, insecurity and so on.

 

I suppose you could limit yourself to him only having casual affairs, but this can not be guaranteed in any realistic manner when it comes to the kind of intimacy sex generates. Even prostitutes have regular clients who come only to them and have deep feelings for them and the prostitute in turn feels jealous if they approach any other person other than the spouse they are cheating.

 

This is something of a catch 22. If I think of what I'd want for my partner, I definitely would want him to enjoy sex that enriches his life, not a desperate grabbing at opportunity because he can't get any at home. (that is if I were ace and he the sexual or I didn't meet his sexual needs in some way). But then if he were wired mono, it would come with a risk that he'd lose interest in me.

 

One way of dealing with this is to reaffirm your commitment to each other and the marriage, while transitioning your relationship to a QPR, so that he can have a deep and meaningful sexual relationship with someone else without running into the monogamy wall with explicit effort on both your parts to nurture your relationship and make sure it endures long term. This will depend a lot on how the two of you navigate your emotions and how solid the two of you are before he begins any other relationship.

 

The ideal way of course would be to have extensive conversations around non-monogamy, commitment and so on, and see if you can reconcile to the idea that it is indeed possible to love more than one person and as long as your relationship is healthy and loving, it is not a threat to it. To some extent, the way you speak here appears healthy and promising. It is one of those things - if you believe you have a solid relationship and a new love is not a threat, it won't be. If you are insecure, the new love will rock your foundations.

 

Whatever you do, I would highly recommend extensive conversations before any action and even perhaps dry runs. Discussing various scenarios, giving an appropriate heads up when a potential partner is found and before beginning something, ensuring that your relationship is not neglected... slow and deliberate steps to value and protect and enrich your relationship with the new developments.

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Philip027
7 hours ago, ryn2 said:

The problem, if that’s the case, is that naturally monogamous people usually (always, by definition?) fall out of love with one person when they fall in love with another. 

Depends how you define monogamous exactly.  I consider myself monogamous because I don't want a relationship with more than one person, but I can and do still very much experience love toward more than one person at once.  (The way I understand it, this is considered polyamory, but not polygamy.)  For others, it may entail simply not experiencing those kinds of feelings about anyone else if they are already in a relationship.

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ryn2
2 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Depends how you define monogamous exactly.  I consider myself monogamous because I don't want a relationship with more than one person, but I can and do still very much experience love toward more than one person at once.  (The way I understand it, this is considered polyamory, but not polygamy.)  For others, it may entail simply not experiencing those kinds of feelings about anyone else if they are already in a relationship.

Agreed, I should stop being sloppy and say monoamorous rather than monogamous as they are not really interchangeable.  I meant to refer to people who are naturally monoamorous (who romantically love only one person at a time), not those who are naturally polyamorous (able to romantically love more than one person simultaneously) but who opt to limit themselves to one relationship at a time anyway.

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majace
On 8/23/2018 at 6:19 PM, anamikanon said:

I have often thought that my ace may appreciate a romantic relationship where the partner didn't expect sex at all, so he had some sex-free intimacy space, so to say, where he can get close all he wants without worrying that his partner may expect more. He says he isn't interested, but that's probably because his one attempt at another partner went really badly (it was sexual - he didn't know he was ace and was... experimenting)

This is very interesting. I had not thought about it this way. I do wish I had intimacy without fearing the need to take things further. But it also takes me a very long time to bond and trust and I don't think I can love two people at the same time (I don't want to either) but I can definitely see the point and how it can work for many others.  

 

On 8/23/2018 at 6:19 PM, anamikanon said:

The ideal way of course would be to have extensive conversations around non-monogamy, commitment and so on, and see if you can reconcile to the idea that it is indeed possible to love more than one person and as long as your relationship is healthy and loving, it is not a threat to it. To some extent, the way you speak here appears healthy and promising. It is one of those things - if you believe you have a solid relationship and a new love is not a threat, it won't be. If you are insecure, the new love will rock your foundations.

 

Whatever you do, I would highly recommend extensive conversations before any action and even perhaps dry runs. Discussing various scenarios, giving an appropriate heads up when a potential partner is found and before beginning something, ensuring that your relationship is not neglected... slow and deliberate steps to value and protect and enrich your relationship with the new developments.

1

Honestly, I have written responses to this post many times, and deleted it over and over. Whatever I seem to write simply sounds very desperate and I know the answers to my own words. I will just say, conversations, yes. You're right, even though nothing has happened yet, up to now, extensive conversations have been the key. Sometimes with tears and I can't do its, other times with fear and hopelessness, and other times with full energy and I'll even help yous. But it all helps us get through whatever it is as I believe our relationship is very solid.

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MrDane
On 8/23/2018 at 10:04 AM, Lara Black said:

I’ve had some experience with open relationships. My ex-husband was much more sexual than me, so he looked for sex partners outside our relationships. And I concur – there are no guarantees that one wouldn’t fall in love with a more or less random sex partner. My ex did – more than once.

One can, however, “return” from a crush – if one values marriage a lot and is ready to treat a crush as a temporary sickness or an emotional storm that has to be waited through. Still, it’s not something reliable.

Basically, opening a relationship means redefining it. The new kind isn’t for everybody – it has its upsides and its problems.

I like that take on it: “...opening a relationship means redefining it”

 

at some point, the ‘flowchart’ of my marriage didnt turn out as I thougth it would and perhaps we need to redefine it. Redefine what we have and where we are going. Opening the relationship (read: I will have sex, but without my wife) would require a total revision of the script. I would prefer to go a long way to keep what I have and not risk to much. On good days, I would sacrifice anything to be with her.

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uhtred

Not wanting to be mean, but it occurs to me:  if in a mixed relationship there is a fear that the sexual partner will develop feelings from sex with a 3rd person, doesn't make sense that the sexual partner is really missing something vital in their main relationship?  

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ryn2
8 minutes ago, uhtred said:

Not wanting to be mean, but it occurs to me:  if in a mixed relationship there is a fear that the sexual partner will develop feelings from sex with a 3rd person, doesn't make sense that the sexual partner is really missing something vital in their main relationship?  

Potentially, but for people who are naturally monoamorous falling for a new person means losing their romantic feelings for the previous one so it could pose a problem even where one (beyond the sex mismatch) doesn’t exist previously.

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anamikanon
56 minutes ago, uhtred said:

Not wanting to be mean, but it occurs to me:  if in a mixed relationship there is a fear that the sexual partner will develop feelings from sex with a 3rd person, doesn't make sense that the sexual partner is really missing something vital in their main relationship?  

Depends. Some people tend to focus romantically/sexually only on one person at a time. So a new partner simply moves the old out of focus. They get used to one partner and the earlier partner feels like an ex and sex with them feels like cheating with the current partner. Can be hard if the new partner was intended to address a specific need like sex, while the old partner is the one to whom they have a commitment. Then being with the old partner itself can feel odd, wrong or a violation because they have "fallen out of love" with them.

 

Also possible that the intense feeling of satisfaction after sex becomes a factor in making the committed relationship actively unsatisfactory. Even if they don't end up in love with the new partner. They may just realize that they don't like the tiptoeing around sex - their natural behavior - all the time and realize that they don't feel accepted as they are. Even if they were happy to compromise earlier because they valued the overall relationship - the awareness of what they value can shift without any new problems. A sexual mismatch is already something vital missing, but it will be missing for poly people also, who will simply end up loving both partners and treasuring both and enriching everyone's lives as they can with the synergy.

 

 

 

 

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Sally
On 8/23/2018 at 3:53 AM, ryn2 said:

This largely depends on whether or not the person is naturally mono or polyamorous.

I don't think that's the case.   If a sexual finds someone whose personality AND sexual interest fits and they fall in love, there really is no reason for the sexual to stay with the asexual.  And a true polyamorous situation means that both partners have a relationship with the third person.  If that third person is better suited to the sexual than the asexual is, the asexual is very unlikely to want to be in that tri-part relationship.

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ryn2

They could be metamours and just peacefully coexist without their own relationship.

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Philip027
4 hours ago, Sally said:

And a true polyamorous situation means that both partners have a relationship with the third person. 

Eh, not necessarily.  You have "V" type arrangements and you have "T" type arrangements and both are valid so long as all parties are in agreement and nobody is being deceived.

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Traveler40
23 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Potentially, but for people who are naturally monoamorous falling for a new person means losing their romantic feelings for the previous one so it could pose a problem even where one (beyond the sex mismatch) doesn’t exist previously.

I have found this to be true.  As mentioned in past posts, taking on a lover has fixed things in me that were broken, yet also created issues where none previously existed.  You hit the nail on the head here.  

 

However, when considering the whole picture as applied to my mixed relationship, the factors that originally moved me to open my relationship versus opting to outright divorce are still relevant.  The monoamorous script gets somewhat warped by default given this type of situation.  I opt to make do with two, and all around compromise can be an option.  I love my husband, make my life with him for our children and seek never to disrespect him, yet am in love with my lover.  

 

Being essentially compelled by default to open a relationship despite being inherently monogamous and monoamorous led me to forge a new path that can’t be defined simply.  I’ve experienced that with all parties on the same page through clear communication, a person can make out of the box arrangements work, even if it’s against their nature.

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Sally
1 hour ago, Traveler40 said:

 I love my husband, make my life with him for our children and seek never to disrespect him, yet am in love with my lover.  

 

What if your lover were to decide that he wanted to be your husband?   What if your lover decided that he wanted to be someone else's husband?  

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