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Still so many questions


InProgress

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Well, it's been a few weeks now since the word "asexual" entered my lexicon. Since initially suspecting this may apply to my husband, we have had hours worth of talks and, as I've previously reported back here, we had his testosterone checked and it came back very low. We're currently waiting for an appointment with an endocrinologist, which won't be until the end of September. That was the soonest we could get in.

 

Things have been good. So good in fact, that I find myself very scared that it won't last. Like a dream that I'm bound to wake up from. As I said, my husband and I are doing a lot of talking. He is making an effort to flirt with me more, open up more in our conversations, and our last 4 sexual encounters (over 3 weeks - higher than average!!) have been what I would call mutual initiation where we both came to bed ready and knowing "it's game on, baby!" Last week, we teased each other for several days before the end of the week, knowing we usually save sex for the weekend since he has to get up so early on days he works. So there was anticipation building and when he came home Friday he actually slapped my ass like he was ready for some action. 

 

We are also going for walks, to be together and exercise, and it's just... so good. But yet my doubts and insecurities linger in my mind. I'm the one who needs the conversations. I'm the one who asked for the flirting. I'm still not sure if he is doing these things because he genuinely feels a desire to or if he's placating me. I mean, I feel like it is real, but I know how badly I want it to be real, that I don't feel like I can trust my own judgment. If that makes sense.

 

After reading in one of the other threads here about asexuals and their fantasies, or lack thereof, I asked him about his fantasies. He has always been so vague and elusive, at times even avoidant, about that. Really wanting an answer about what we're dealing with, I asked him if he fantasizes with him in the fantasy. He said not really. But then when I asked some questions to get some elaboration, he did say he might imagine me in front of him. His answers confused me but I didn't want to push, so I dropped it for the time being.

 

Then today I had my first individual therapy appointment. My therapist gave me homework for next week to come back with a few goals that I want to accomplish in therapy. I have several, but the nagging question in my head is "is my husband an asexual?" Is there hope for us? Is this progress real? Is it sustainable? Have we turned a page in our relationship? Or is this just a momentary burst of effort?  

 

I suppose maybe only time will tell. I'm also exploring the link between anxiety, particularly social anxiety, which I think is another unaddressed issue (like the low T) that my husband is dealing with. But again, I am the one searching for answers while my husband is content with the way things have been, oblivious to how much it has impacted me/us until I "raise a stink" about it.

 

I don't know. I think one of my goals may need to be going to couples therapy and having a therapist guide us through this. Help us work through my husband's avoidant tendencies and get to some actual answers. He is as cooperative right now as he has ever been, so maybe he's ready to face these issues now, too.

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, InProgress said:

As I said, my husband and I are doing a lot of talking. He is making an effort to flirt with me more, open up more in our conversations, and our last 4 sexual encounters (over 3 weeks - higher than average!!) have been what I would call mutual initiation where we both came to bed ready and knowing "it's game on, baby!" Last week, we teased each other for several days before the end of the week, knowing we usually save sex for the weekend since he has to get up so early on days he works. So there was anticipation building and when he came home Friday he actually slapped my ass like he was ready for some action. 

If this level is sustainable but it turns out his portion is externally motivated - he’s doing it because he knows it is important to you and a big part of your happiness - will that work for you?

 

Re: anxiety... by definition it is not a problem unless it is causing the person significant distress and intefering with day-to-day activities, so whether or not it warrants addressing is really up to him.

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11 hours ago, InProgress said:

Things have been good. So good in fact, that I find myself very scared that it won't last. Like a dream that I'm bound to wake up from.

If things are going good, ENJOY them instead of second guessing them. There will be problems soon enough without you inventing them when they are missing.

 

I also say this, because if you are honestly enjoying something, it becomes a message for both of you to do more of that because it is working. If you think something is working, but are still flinching, it won't make it to your "works" list and will needlessly remain an area to improve. Not to mention an ace or low libido partner already has enough challenges meeting the needs of a sexual without being unsure when something is working. Give clear messages to him and yourself. THIS WORKS. MOARRR!

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

He is making an effort to flirt with me more, open up more in our conversations... 4 sexual encounters... higher than average... mutual initiation... "it's game on, baby!" ... teased each other... knowing we usually save sex for the weekend... anticipation building and when he came home Friday he actually slapped my ass like he was ready for some action. 

That sounds like a fantastic time you're having. Where is the problem?

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

But yet my doubts and insecurities linger in my mind.

I made the mistake of thinking that my ace has to act in a certain way for me to be certain he wants me. We need to work on ourselves too. This may include joyously accepting continuous improvement instead of pining for some mythical perfection.

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

I'm the one who needs the conversations. I'm the one who asked for the flirting.

Well, you're clearly the sexual here. So? Not like he's refusing, like, to read your earlier description?

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

I'm still not sure if he is doing these things because he genuinely feels a desire to or if he's placating me.

Why not ask him? Also, to some extent, accepting our aces means that accepting that they don't feel desire in the same way that we do. My ace routinely gets stumped to realize "desire" was meant in a sexual context. He moved cities in order to be with me. Gambled with his job and may still end up quitting it. Spent a lot of his savings on my son's medical treatment, loves spending every spare minute with me. To him all this is desiring me all entwined in his life every way he can include me.

 

Oh. Sexual. Oh. 

 

Well, he's ace, right?

 

To put the sexual thing in his words, he loves how I get all melty after an orgasm and am all glowy and affectionate with him for days after. He is not sex averse, and because sex gets that result, he's all for it, even though it doesn't work the same way for him. It is STILL wanting sex with me, even if for a different reason. If anything, it is a compliment and a statement of how much he wants me all content and happy that he'll go out of his way to do things to make that happen. It is still consent, it is still desire (even if not sexual desire) and it is his way of loving me.

 

Sure, it isn't as frequent as I'd prefer it or can do even without thinking twice. But then I bet he can do celibacy with far less thinking than I can. So?

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

I asked some questions to get some elaboration, he did say he might imagine me in front of him. His answers confused me but I didn't want to push, so I dropped it for the time being.

Personally, a lot of my ace's fantasies don't make sense to me or seem erotic at all. His mind works differently. It is ok to be confused. Not pushing is a good idea too. I find that asking for elaborations and details works. One thing to remember here is that the act of sharing fantasies itself is erotic/intimate. You don't have to understand them for him to still enjoy telling you about them or to feel the closeness from the sharing of deeply guarded thoughts.

 

Also it is ok to not understand. One classic moment in our conversations on fantasies was when he said they featured machines. I was rather surprised. "Sex machines?!" I asked. He was puzzled. He simply meant a scenario that was close to machines. Like spaceship or steampunk or futuristic or whatever. Not necessarily sex machines. lol. In fact, a lot of his fantasies don't seem to feature sex at all - from how they seem to me - they are just generic situations he finds dramatic and intense with potential for a man and woman to be interacting exclusively. But then his idea of a romantic relationship too is what I call a generic companionship or being a "roomie". Us sexuals have o idea what to do with this kind of a fantasy or what use it could possibly be, lol. But it is ok. We don't have to "get it", just accept that it fascinates them.

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

I have several, but the nagging question in my head is "is my husband an asexual?"

How does it matter as long as it works, and you are describing that it works.

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

Is there hope for us? Is this progress real? Is it sustainable? Have we turned a page in our relationship? Or is this just a momentary burst of effort?  

Both, neither. A relationship isn't a static destination where you reach a certain status and pickle it. It is constantly changing, evolving. Sometimes there are bursts of effort. Other times you simply drift along for a while, content with a comfortable status quo.

 

What is going on right now? You demonstrating to yourselves that with sincere effort, you can make this work very well. Whether you continue to do it will still be up to you. Same as if it weren't working, whether you continued to do what didn't work or experimented to find better ways would be up to you.

 

So you have the answer. This is a honeymoon period of effort. Are you willing to sustain it indefinitely? Do you think he can? How can you futureproof your happy times?

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

I suppose maybe only time will tell. I'm also exploring the link between anxiety, particularly social anxiety, which I think is another unaddressed issue (like the low T) that my husband is dealing with. But again, I am the one searching for answers while my husband is content with the way things have been, oblivious to how much it has impacted me/us until I "raise a stink" about it.

Probably linked, but also probably a good idea to stay the hell away from the subject at least for now. It is a personal capacity issue rather than interpersonal, and with so much vulnerability going on between you two on the sexual front, I would not recommend getting into a therapeutic space with him on yet another subject he finds difficult. If he has a therapist, you could encourage him to explore it with them, but if the therapist is any good, they'll do that anyway and you'll probably be better off not suggesting either.

 

This has psychological complexities related with the role, that I can explain in messages or separately if needed, but it is a bad idea for you to make self-improvement type suggestions at this point when you are struggling to find a good space as an equal partner on an intimate front. (Short explanation: A therapeutic relationship is unequal and a therapeutic intervention essentially gives a lot of power over the person and must be observational/uninvolved of sorts to be done right, which can change how he sees you, also bleed resentments from difficulties into your interpersonal relationship and make things worse on that front)

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

I think one of my goals may need to be going to couples therapy and having a therapist guide us through this.

Good idea.

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

Help us work through my husband's avoidant tendencies and get to some actual answers.

There shouldn't be an "us" working on "his" tendencies. It is his issue and he should be working on it (if he wants to). You can work separately on coping skills for inadvertent hurt he causes you and together on other subjects relevant to both of you - some of it may involve his avoidant tendencies as well. If he you as "fixing him", it will create more problems than it solves, because a very natural expectation is that our partner finds us lovable and accepts us as we are, while a therapeutic intervention must, of necessity confront and force attention to serious dysfunctional patterns.  Particularly issues related with avoidant tendencies - APD, demand avoidance, and so on - tend to create a LOT of resentment when the person is forced to face instead of avoid - their default pattern. Any resentment generated here WILL cause distancing in the overall relationship till he is able to cope with it.

 

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

He is as cooperative right now as he has ever been, so maybe he's ready to face these issues now, too.

Support and suggest, but don't initiate or witness any personal vulnerability unless he expressly shares with you. It will help him trust you more and experiment with changed patterns with less hesitation if he doesn't think you're evaluating his progress rather than engaging with him.

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Enjoy things while they are good, but be cautious about letting your guard down.  I've done that several times with my wife when things seemed good - Then got slapped down hard. It feels like discovering that they are asexual all over again.

 

Give it a try - once - but don't make the mistake of trying over and over again for a relationship that you cannot have. 

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5 hours ago, ryn2 said:

If this level is sustainable but it turns out his portion is externally motivated - he’s doing it because he knows it is important to you and a big part of your happiness - will that work for you?

Well that is one of the many things that I am trying to ascertain. Things like authenticity and sincerity, being true to oneself, those qualities matter to me. I’m a very empathic, sensitive, highly EQ person as well. My concern is that we are both true to ourselves and if he isn’t, it may always feel off to me. 

 

5 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Re: anxiety... by definition it is not a problem unless it is causing the person significant distress and intefering with day-to-day activities, so whether or not it warrants addressing is really up to him.

It does interfere with day-to-day activities. A good example is that there are phone calls he won’t make, questions he won’t ask of people, etc. He avoids some social interactions and has gotten increasingly resistant to going to things where there will be large crowds or people he doesn’t know. 

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@anamikanon, I appreciate the thoughtful responses. It’s clear you took a lot of time in replying to me and I thank you for that. And I also feel slightly condescended to, to be honest. Of course I know that a relationship changes and I can’t just stop here and “pickle it” but I have to say that after being in this relationship for 26 years, most of which has been plagued by relentless doubt about our compatibility, I think it’s perfectly understandable why I would have ongoing questions and concerns.

 

I am trusting right now, to the best of my ability, after having been in this relationship since I was 15 years old, and feeling most of it has been severe emotional and sexual malnourishment. My husband’s lack of interest hasn’t been only in the bedroom. He hasn’t spoken my love language, he has ignored entire conversations that I had tried to have with him, along with ignoring my writing (I write essays and poetry). I would send him links to things and say “let me know what you think!” And... nothing. As I have matured, I can see that there are entire swaths of me that he has been oblivious to, and while I have mostly grown to accept that, I would still very much like to know if he’ll ever be capable of showing a genuine interest in me (sexual or not) or if these areas of where we.are.just.different. are what they are and they’ll never feel satisfying for me.

 

I have a right to my happiness. I have a right to pursue a relationship that isn’t plagued by relentless doubt. I have a right to want answers. And he has a right to all that, too, whether he’ll find the answers with me or not. I’d prefer he does, but my cautiousness is based on 26 years of experience.

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1 hour ago, InProgress said:

It does interfere with day-to-day activities. A good example is that there are phone calls he won’t make, questions he won’t ask of people, etc. He avoids some social interactions and has gotten increasingly resistant to going to things where there will be large crowds or people he doesn’t know.

The key distinction is:  is it causing him distress?  If he is not seeing those things as interfering with his life to a degree that they’re distressful to him, then they like wouldn’t qualify is a treatable disorder (and it makes sense he wouldn’t be researching them/looking into solutions).

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2 hours ago, InProgress said:

@anamikanon, I appreciate the thoughtful responses. It’s clear you took a lot of time in replying to me and I thank you for that. And I also feel slightly condescended to, to be honest. Of course I know that a relationship changes and I can’t just stop here and “pickle it” but I have to say that after being in this relationship for 26 years, most of which has been plagued by relentless doubt about our compatibility, I think it’s perfectly understandable why I would have ongoing questions and concerns.

I apologise if you feel condescended to, but I suspect that after this long a time you also understand that the situation isn't going to be as you wish it exactly. You are describing a present that has moved away from the dysfunctional patterns of the past. I am saying that it is more to your advantage to focus on what works and see how to preserve or enhance it than look at behavior that caused you concern but isn't in the present.

 

You know that the relationship changes, but your anxiety is taking you to a previous version before the change - that will serve to undermine the change by diverting your focus from a functional here and now and bringing in aspects of a dysfunctional past that I imagine you'd like to not bring to the future. I can tell you you are perfectly justified in feeling anxious and it will make you feel supported, but it will not lead you anywhere useful. The anxiety, while justifiable due to the past is hindering your enjoyment of the present and will limit your ability to engage without inhibition. The more you engage fully, the better your chances are of it creating a reciprocal enthusiasm in your partner and the new energy sustaining.

 

Even if things go south tomorrow, the anxiety won't help.

 

This may sound patronizing, but it is not my intent. It is something I know from seeing repeatedly in changework. Don't let your opinion of a stranger on the internet matter more than results. For what it is worth, me being asocial also means that I'm really not here to give you a hug and make you feel good and not say anything that you don't want to hear. You can simply chalk it down to me not being "nice". 

 

2 hours ago, InProgress said:

I am trusting right now, to the best of my ability, after having been in this relationship since I was 15 years old, and feeling most of it has been severe emotional and sexual malnourishment. My husband’s lack of interest hasn’t been only in the bedroom. He hasn’t spoken my love language, he has ignored entire conversations that I had tried to have with him, along with ignoring my writing (I write essays and poetry). I would send him links to things and say “let me know what you think!” And... nothing. As I have matured, I can see that there are entire swaths of me that he has been oblivious to, and while I have mostly grown to accept that, I would still very much like to know if he’ll ever be capable of showing a genuine interest in me (sexual or not) or if these areas of where we.are.just.different. are what they are and they’ll never feel satisfying for me.

This is completely different from the description of the situation in your original post. Only you can decide what your reality is in the present and whether the relationship is worth continuing to invest yourself in.

 

I would say if this change you see in the present is part of a pattern of initiated and abandoned efforts, you should not put too much stock in it, but if it is unprecedented, I think you have seen enough of the patterns to recognize when something is genuninely new and worth exploring.

 

Also you need to decide for yourself whether the changes address enough of the areas you are dissatisfied about. Whichever you decide, second guessing yourself only disempowers you - whether I say it or be nice and go "of course you'll feel anxious" and provide another five reasons for why anxiety is natural in such a situation.

 

No one here can tell you whether the changes in your husband are legit. Any answers will only be out of a sense of empathy for you and a wish to make you feel better without any factual data to back them. You are the only one here with firsthand data. You will have to trust what you see and your gut to decide whether to believe and work with his changes or to be skeptical of them.

 

2 hours ago, InProgress said:

I have a right to my happiness. I have a right to pursue a relationship that isn’t plagued by relentless doubt. I have a right to want answers. And he has a right to all that, too, whether he’ll find the answers with me or not. I’d prefer he does, but my cautiousness is based on 26 years of experience.

No one is disputing your right. My suggestion is merely to not approach it as his issue and ask for answers to the problems you face because of it. That way, he doesn't perceive it as blame, get defensive and shut you out. This is not to patronize you or deny you a right to answers, but to share factors that hinder desired results. Unless of course, you are sold on the description of his neglect of you and are simply looking to corner him and force him to admit it. Avoidance issues are deeprooted and are very resistant to changework. It is easier to shoot the messenger than look at serious problems with ourselves. Him feeling resentful of you is not going to improve your relationship and your objective can be met without running into it. You can call it patronizing if you like, but it is solid, observable human behavior pattern.

 

You can say that him dealing with his avoidance issues is a requirement you have, but in your mind you will have to be clear what you will do if he does not agree.

 

That said, he's your husband and you know him best. If my suggestions make no sense, discard them.

 

On my part, I think the suggestions I made were useful ones that come from almost two decades of studying human behavior AND living with an ace who probably has avoidant personality disorder, demand avoidance, alexythimia among a raft of other serious issues from the Autism Spectrum that impair his ability to have relationships AND we manage to have a very strong communication and a functional approach to changework regardless. I am pretty much the only person in the world he feels understood with. This has involved doing many things right and many things wrong too. I have tried to provide the reasoning for each suggestion so that you can see if it holds merit. As opposed to condescending to you and imagining I am superior.

 

That said, I probably should take a break from this place.

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I spent a lot of time today, @anamikanon, thinking about some of what you said and all that’s been going on in my situation. I was also thinking about the “homework” my therapist gave me to come back next week with a short list of goals that I want to work on in therapy. I started making some lists of what I think I need to do or change to be happy. As that list developed, I noticed which of those things are solidly under my control and which would require something of my husband. This felt like progress because it helped me to see what things I can do all on my own. Then I started making a list of my questions/things to figure out about my marriage. “Is —— asexual?” was at the top of the list, with several other things beneath it, including the continuing questions about what will be done about the low testosterone, which we won’t know for another month. Then, in a final list, I wrote down what I think I need and want when it comes to sex, intimacy, and affection and how frequently I think I need it. It was good to get these thoughts out of my head and on to paper. It also helped me realize a few things.

1) fretting about asexuality makes both of us anxious - and right now, since some things are working, maybe it isn’t so important that we (ok, ) push to figure that out right now.

2) The things I landed on wanting/needing are improving by us making it a priority daily and seeing it written down and going “oh hey, my some of my needs are being met now and we have just a few more to go” it really eased my mind considerably to reflect on that

3) We can work on fortifying what is currently working while we spend the next month waiting to find out more about the low T

 

I ran all this by the husband and he was heartily on board. I had also shared a love song with him a couple times over the past week or so and he kept putting off watching the video and after my 3rd nudge today, he listened to it and when I asked him what he thought, he told me that he almost cried! He had told me that he would make a better effort to pay attention to and respond to my messages and my writing. And normally when I ask him what he thinks of something, he shrugs or says “I don’t know” or he hasn’t even read/watched what I shared. So that he watched, and had a reaction, and it was something that moved him - is a very big deal to me!

 

So together we’ve agreed to focus on the good that we’re cultivating and to not make his sexuality our focus for now, so it is I that will be taking a step back from this forum. For now any way. I’ll pop back in when we have more news next month. I do appreciate the help I’ve received here and I think my initial start to this thread was just a place to vent my worries, but I’m consciously choosing to shift my attention for at least the next leg of our journey (til we see the endocrinologist). Thank you to everyone that has been here to listen and advise me, even if I didn’t take it well at first. 🙂

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@InProgress, your thoughts and stories resonated very deeply in me. I’m very grateful for the validation that came from hearing from someone with such similar thoughts. You’ll be missed. Good luck out there!

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Wow @InProgressthat is one amazing update. Hope you and your husband are able to stick to the new plan and chase joy together.

 

Also, a lot of respect for you. Getting information is the easy part. Applying it is the real challenge. You really seem to have rolled up your sleeves and got to work. Fantastic attitude.

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