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tygersongbird

For the sexuals and everybody, honest opinion: Is sex really all that great?

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ryn2
3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Wouldn't you ask them about their experiences, etc - more than just the functional exchange of information? I'm driving at the conversation being about human contact and shared humanity, not just functional, and some contact is better than no contact (assuming they weren't actually unpleasant)?

That’s what I meant by nothing else to talk about.  If we “hit it off” in the initial exchange we might talk more.  If not, I wouldn’t talk just to talk.

 

I wasn’t originally speaking of a “two people left on the planet” situation, though, just one where the rest of the world went on like normal but I was individually not able to speak to anyone for a while.

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ryn2
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

I honestly wasn't being critical, just wondering if you human contact had any value in itself in that situation, rather than based on what information you might glean.

I should have quoted.  The “experiences” post was about whether or not people should have sex before deciding how they feel about it, not about speaking to people.

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ryn2
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I honestly wasn't being critical, just wondering if you human contact had any value in itself in that situation, rather than based on what information you might glean.

Depends on the person.  If we got along, sure.  If not, the exhaustion of dealing with them would quickly outweigh any gain.

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Telecaster68

But you'd actually have to positively hit it off, rather than 'just be okay with'? Like, actually want to be friends with rather than someone who was a work colleague you had no problem spending a lot of time with but no huge desire to see out of work?

 

I'd prefer to be with, and talk to, someone I was just okay with, than have absolutely no one to talk to. And I'm basically an introvert, in that I recharge alone rather than by being with people.

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Lara Black
15 hours ago, tygersongbird said:

Society always seems to sell sex to us- saying that sex is something is oh, so great, and that it is a highly important thing you just can't go without- do you agree or disagree? Is sex something so great that you would say it's essential for each and everybody? Is sex all that it's really cracked up to be? 

Of course, not. It’s just our secret plot specifically to piss off asexuals.

Ahem, honestly, what answer did you expect to hear from sexuals? We’re called that for a reason.

If you wanna know something special about what makes sex great for us, or whether we figured out it was great before or after we tried it for several times, then more specific starting message would be helpful. Or you could read the previous forum entries because I’m pretty sure there’ve been posts like that already.

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ryn2
15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But you'd actually have to positively hit it off, rather than 'just be okay with'? Like, actually want to be friends with rather than someone who was a work colleague you had no problem spending a lot of time with but no huge desire to see out of work?

 

I'd prefer to be with, and talk to, someone I was just okay with, than have absolutely no one to talk to. And I'm basically an introvert, in that I recharge alone rather than by being with people.

I’m fine with work colleagues I have no desire to hang out with/befriend “out in the world.”  Some of that is because the work environment naturally lets us compartmentalize things and avoid topics where we disagree without making a big deal of it.

 

In a post-apocalyptic scenario it would potentially be hard to do that as there would be no reason to only talk about certain things. 

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

In a post-apocalyptic scenario it would potentially be hard to do that as there would be no reason to only talk about certain things. 

Better to be alone then, than talk about random things, in the post apocalyptic scenario?

 

I'm just trying to get my head round preferring no human company over some human company, assuming it's not actively malign.

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anamikanon
15 hours ago, tygersongbird said:

So, I really want your opinions overall, so I desire your overall feelings and thoughts on this whole question.

For me, the closest description (particularly after the insight of being with my ace) is that sex is an ability like the ability to hug someone. It can be many things. It can be a meaningless hug to someone in a "hugging environment" (some parties where everyone seems to hug at entry/exit come to mind). It can be comfort, it can be togetherness, it can be discovery, it can feel good, convey acceptance, convey serious like/love and so on. Additionally, it can also be seriously exciting in a physical way that feels really good. I'd compare an orgasm with a good stretch. You feel cramped, need to stretch, then you stretch and aaah.... one moment you tense yourself in a specific way, the next you're really relaxed. Just in a much more better feeling way. lol.

 

Is it necessary? Not all the time. Sometimes you really need to stretch. Other times you do it just because it feels good after sitting cramped for a while. Or you don't and just stand up and start walking to the next thing. Some friends you hug, others you don't. Some friend narrowly escapes an accident and you just want to hold them for a while.

 

To a sexual, saying that sex doesn't matter can also be compared with how a romantic ace would feel if informed that hugging doesn't matter. Or that you don't need to say "I love you" ten times a day, you informed 3 years ago and no need to repeat it unless there is a change of status. Can it be avoided? Yes, but it sort of deadens things.

 

The most important thing, in my view is that if two people really want to be close, sex is among the most impactful ways of doing it. Obviously, unless you are ace. I see it as a matter of how close you can get to someone. Some have an intense intellectual relationship and may never touch. Or may shake hands. Others may hug. Or cuddle. Or sex. Or intensify the sex with something that further enhances the awareness of it with say kink or some other form of play.

 

From the perspective of my ace, who is sex neutral rather than averse, he doesn't want sex for himself, but STILL wants us to be sexual, because he likes the effect of that closeness in how I behave with him - beyond sex. Since I am sexual, not having sex means I'm not getting as close to him as I could and would want to. So I ACT differently when I'm really close to him as opposed to hugs and cuddles. Playfulness, flirting, eye contact, affection, simply more interactions.... he WANTS us to have sex so I am all that with him - as I am normally with someone I love and am attracted to - rather than being cautious and limiting the kind of contact I allow myself, which naturally inhibits my overall behavior with him, because I'm filtering how I act rather than simply being.

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ryn2
17 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Better to be alone then, than talk about random things, in the post apocalyptic scenario?

 

I'm just trying to get my head round preferring no human company over some human company, assuming it's not actively malign.

It’s not about talking about random things (or not).

 

Some people grate on me.  Some  wear me out.  Some are fine in small doses.  Some are always a pleasure.

 

In person I am not awesome about enforcing boundaries in situations where someone likes me/likes talking to me more (sometimes much more) than I do them.  In a post-apocalyptic scenario that would be problematic for me if the lone other survivor was, say, a chatty extrovert who thinks company makes every conceivable thing better.

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starweb
17 hours ago, tygersongbird said:

 

 

Society always seems to sell sex to us- saying that sex is something is oh, so great, and that it is a highly important thing you just can't go without- do you agree or disagree? Is sex something so great that you would say it's essential for each and everybody? Is sex all that it's really cracked up to be? What do you say?   Yay or nay?

 

I'm one of the ones who married before I found out I was ACE (I blamed my lack of sexual attraction on a religious background) Yes, it was good but not to the point where it took over my life and I  never initiated it. It didn't spark any kind of 'have to have it' mentality. I could go without it for months without noticing. 

 

A person could always choose simple plain food but go to a five-star restaurant once in a while and enjoy it, It would be good, but the thing is, that doesn't change the person's basic likes and dislikes. After a meal there they would be happy to go back to their simple way of eating and not miss the fine dining.  Good sex is good but for me, not all that 'great' so that I would re-arrange my lifestyle for more of it.

 

 

 

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tygersongbird
2 hours ago, Lara Black said:

Of course, not. It’s just our secret plot specifically to piss off asexuals.

Ahem, honestly, what answer did you expect to hear from sexuals? We’re called that for a reason.

If you wanna know something special about what makes sex great for us, or whether we figured out it was great before or after we tried it for several times, then more specific starting message would be helpful. Or you could read the previous forum entries because I’m pretty sure there’ve been posts like that already.

OK. Well, I often don't check the forums and all that. So, I didn't know or anything. I don't know anything about this personally, nor have I ever really wanted to either. I just always am constantly hearing how "Everybody loves sex!" as if it's "Everybody loves Raymond" or something. I keep hearing that, and all I want to do is interject with "Everybody but me!" because I really don't want to get involved with sex. However, whenever you say that or mention that, you might as well have said that you are some sort of alien reptile with antennae on the head. It's almost as if sex is something so essential for everybody, and hearing statements like that make you wonder "What's wrong with me?". I don't know.

 

Being in a sexual world, I feel so out of place most days. I often feel like the broken one, dysfunctional at best, really. Sometimes you start thinking "Am I wrong and are they right?" "Is sex something so vital and crucial to the human experience?" "Do you have to have sex to be a human being?" "Do I have to have sex, like they say I should, then?"  "Can you be normal as an asexual?" "Is asexuality normal or abnormal?" "What if I'm not normal, then? Do I have to become normal, then?" "What do I do? Where do I go from here?"

 

Those are the questions that continuous run through my mind some days.

 

Sorry, there are simply days where I just feel defected, and that doesn't feel good, to be honest with you. So, I asked that question in complete honesty, especially since I have no idea what sex is really. I'm sorry if that was overboard or something.

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CBC
2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

In a post-apocalyptic scenario that would be problematic for me if the lone other survivor was, say, a chatty extrovert who thinks company makes every conceivable thing better.

I'd just tell 'em to stfu and then bugger off into the woods for a while or something. :D I think when it comes down to it, if the only other human being on the planet was an insufferable chatterbox, I'd take that over complete isolation. I'm very introverted and have been a bit of a loner all my life, but I can't do the total hermit thing unless I want my mental wellbeing to really go down the shitter. Complete isolation has never been my friend.

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ryn2

It would require some separation of duties to buy peace and quiet.  :)

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CBC

Send them off to scavenge for something nonexistent. Hope they don't know Latin, come up with an imaginary plant name, tell them it's a great source of Vitamin Z (necessary for post-apocalyptic survival!), and you've bought yourself some time to silently commune with the woodland critters instead.

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tygersongbird
19 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

My preferred responses to such "arguments" (even though I don't necessarily think that it will always persuade people, some people use such arguments just out of ordinary hostility to asexuals):

- Why should I do something which feels so unpleasant and discomfortable (discomfortable - more than just uncomfortable) to me?

- Why are other orientations, and especially heterosexuals, given the privilege of being able to know their orientation without testing it, but we are not? It's a double standard.

I like that response. If it is something that is patently discomforting, why should I ever attempt it then. I don't get that. I don't get why we have to do something just because everyone says it's necessary for them, so they assume the same for us?

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Lara Black
15 hours ago, tygersongbird said:

OK. Well, I often don't check the forums and all that. So, I didn't know or anything. I don't know anything about this personally, nor have I ever really wanted to either. I just always am constantly hearing how "Everybody loves sex!" as if it's "Everybody loves Raymond" or something. I keep hearing that, and all I want to do is interject with "Everybody but me!" because I really don't want to get involved with sex. However, whenever you say that or mention that, you might as well have said that you are some sort of alien reptile with antennae on the head. It's almost as if sex is something so essential for everybody, and hearing statements like that make you wonder "What's wrong with me?". I don't know.

 

Being in a sexual world, I feel so out of place most days. I often feel like the broken one, dysfunctional at best, really. Sometimes you start thinking "Am I wrong and are they right?" "Is sex something so vital and crucial to the human experience?" "Do you have to have sex to be a human being?" "Do I have to have sex, like they say I should, then?"  "Can you be normal as an asexual?" "Is asexuality normal or abnormal?" "What if I'm not normal, then? Do I have to become normal, then?" "What do I do? Where do I go from here?"

 

Those are the questions that continuous run through my mind some days.

 

Sorry, there are simply days where I just feel defected, and that doesn't feel good, to be honest with you. So, I asked that question in complete honesty, especially since I have no idea what sex is really. I'm sorry if that was overboard or something.

OK, so that’s more of an emotional outcry. That’s understandable. And I know what you feel to some degree – it seems like society’s approach to any minority. And the more of a minority you are, the harsher it gets. I’m child-free, but I sometimes feel that everybody around me LOVES kids and I must do so, too. Luckily, there are more child-free people than there are aces, so I can find like-minded people and not feel completely outnumbered.

So, I guess, AVEN might help you quite some. There are many people here who don’t like or want sex and they are totally fine.

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Tarfeather
19 hours ago, Lara Black said:
Quote

Society always seems to sell sex to us- saying that sex is something is oh, so great, and that it is a highly important thing you just can't go without- do you agree or disagree? Is sex something so great that you would say it's essential for each and everybody? Is sex all that it's really cracked up to be? 

Of course, not. It’s just our secret plot specifically to piss off asexuals.

Ahem, honestly, what answer did you expect to hear from sexuals? We’re called that for a reason.

Hm.. I don't agree. If it were literally a thing you "can't go without", like food or shelter, then I'd consider it a massive human rights violation not to ensure that everybody has access to it. However, that's not the case, is it. You can easily go without. And by the very nature of how human sexuality works, a lot of people do, especially men.

 

From my perspective, I don't view sex as this "oh so great, highly important thing", but more as an unfortunate addiction. Could it feel nice? Absolutely. Would focusing on pursuing that nice feeling completely ruin my life? Absolutely.

 

I honestly think there's an issue in this society. This kind of "fuck you, got mine" attitude, where everyone is encouraged to seek the greatest pleasure and success for themselves, and sex is treated the same way in that context. Both asexuals and sexuals who aren't fortunate enough to find that sexual fulfillment, are hit in the same negative way by that kind of culture. I guess that's part of why I can relate to so much of what asexuals say on here.

 

Hence, my comment from before. When you've found someone who you'd actually like to share that experience with and it's reciprocated, I'm sure sex is nice. Otherwise, the need for it is a highly harmful thing, especially when going unmet over years and decades.

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ChainReact
1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

Hm.. I don't agree. If it were literally a thing you "can't go without", like food or shelter, then I'd consider it a massive human rights violation not to ensure that everybody has access to it. However, that's not the case, is it. You can easily go without. And by the very nature of how human sexuality works, a lot of people do, especially men.

 

From my perspective, I don't view sex as this "oh so great, highly important thing", but more as an unfortunate addiction. Could it feel nice? Absolutely. Would focusing on pursuing that nice feeling completely ruin my life? Absolutely.

 

I honestly think there's an issue in this society. This kind of "fuck you, got mine" attitude, where everyone is encouraged to seek the greatest pleasure and success for themselves, and sex is treated the same way in that context. Both asexuals and sexuals who aren't fortunate enough to find that sexual fulfillment, are hit in the same negative way by that kind of culture. I guess that's part of why I can relate to so much of what asexuals say on here.

 

Hence, my comment from before. When you've found someone who you'd actually like to share that experience with and it's reciprocated, I'm sure sex is nice. Otherwise, the need for it is a highly harmful thing, especially when going unmet over years and decades.

While I would not physically die without, the statement “you could easily go without “ is, for some people, myself included, laughable. Honestly, if I were to find out that the rest of my life would be without sex, I would seriously contemplate suicide. And I’m generally a very resilient person! Now the fact that I was contemplating suicide would prompt me to immediately seek help (I have lost friends to suicide and I couldn’t bear the thought of inflicting that pain on others), but I would be psychologically devastated. So while it is not a physical need, the fact that for some people, it is a need, is not hyperbole. 

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Telecaster68

I'd put it in exactly the same place as conversation. Clearly I could live a long life without ever having a conversation again, but it would be missing a fundamental joy, lonely, and probably make me weird and cranky. I seek out and treasure people I can have richly enjoyable conversations with, but in the end I'd rather talk to an idiot about reality television than never talk to anyone again. 

 

To me, humans are social animals, it's almost certainly been one of biggest evolutionary advantages, and it's hardwired. Conversation and sex are both part of that deepseated instinct, quite apart from their functional uses.

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ryn2

There definitely seems to be a range of importance amongst at least the sexuals that post here.

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

Hm.. I don't agree. If it were literally a thing you "can't go without", like food or shelter, then I'd consider it a massive human rights violation not to ensure that everybody has access to it. However, that's not the case, is it. You can easily go without. And by the very nature of how human sexuality works, a lot of people do, especially men.

 

From my perspective, I don't view sex as this "oh so great, highly important thing", but more as an unfortunate addiction. Could it feel nice? Absolutely. Would focusing on pursuing that nice feeling completely ruin my life? Absolutely.

 

I honestly think there's an issue in this society. This kind of "fuck you, got mine" attitude, where everyone is encouraged to seek the greatest pleasure and success for themselves, and sex is treated the same way in that context. Both asexuals and sexuals who aren't fortunate enough to find that sexual fulfillment, are hit in the same negative way by that kind of culture. I guess that's part of why I can relate to so much of what asexuals say on here.

 

Hence, my comment from before. When you've found someone who you'd actually like to share that experience with and it's reciprocated, I'm sure sex is nice. Otherwise, the need for it is a highly harmful thing, especially when going unmet over years and decades.

I've said this before Tar, but seriously, I think you need to comprehensively, enthusiastically, expertly laid.

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anisotrophic
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

I've said this before Tar, but seriously, I think you need to comprehensively, enthusiastically, expertly laid.

I think you should back off.

 

Not everyone can get enthusiastically laid. They may have severe medical issues, like obesity (as well as more rare and purely genetic conditions), that are  enormous barriers to the chances of this happening.

 

Even if someone who doesn't have barriers like those, desperation is a well known turn off. What starts as bad luck turns into a curse.

 

Fixating on what one can't have is a great way to be miserable. There's a lot of peace and happiness when we turn towards the joys we can attain.

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CBC

I dunno about Tar, but I wouldn't mind getting enthusiastically laid in the foreseeable future. Might take the edge off my daily existential nightmare a little bit. :lol: 

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Telecaster68
18 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

I think you should back off.

 

Not everyone can get enthusiastically laid. They may have severe medical issues, like obesity (as well as more rare and purely genetic conditions), that are  enormous barriers to the chances of this happening.

 

Even if someone who doesn't have barriers like those, desperation is a well known turn off. What starts as bad luck turns into a curse.

 

Fixating on what one can't have is a great way to be miserable. There's a lot of peace and happiness when we turn towards the joys we can attain.

I've known Tar and his situation for years, thanks.

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anisotrophic

 

10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I've known Tar and his situation for years, thanks.

What you write gets read by others, many of whom won't have some hidden knowledge that you consider to be an ameliorating context for what you write. What purpose is there, then?

 

Because, in the absence of that, I'm not seeing a great general message in what your wrote.  Pivoting to make this an opportunity to play "you're an outsider" is also not super impressive.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, anisotropic said:

What purpose is there, then?

It was explicitly aimed at Tar. I don't see the relevance of what anyone else makes of it.

 

1 minute ago, anisotropic said:

Because, in the absence of that, I'm not seeing a great general message in what your wrote.  Pivoting to make this an opportunity to play "you're an outsider" is also not super impressive.

Noted.

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Philip027
22 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

What you write gets read by others, many of whom won't have some hidden knowledge that you consider to be an ameliorating context for what you write. What purpose is there, then?

Who gives a shit?  The message clearly wasn't intended for anyone else, and going by the "I've said this before" comment, it should be clear that the two posters have a history that you may not be privy to.

 

25 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

Because, in the absence of that, I'm not seeing a great general message in what your wrote.

Maybe because it wasn't a general message for everybody.

 

Who says there has to be one, anyway?  Who died and made you forum police?

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ChainReact

@Philip027, I agree that it was fairly clear that the message was more inside humor than serious broadcast, I don’t think it was bad for @anisotropic to stick up for someone if she really thought the intention was hostility. The world needs more people to confront things when they seem wrong. 

 

Either way, yeesh. I think maybe the both of you need to get comprehensively, enthusiastically, expertly laid. 😉

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Philip027

Your FACE needs to get comprehensively, enthusiastically, expertly laid! 🙄

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😏

 

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anisotrophic

Yeah I dunno. I'm outta here for a while. These forums here were my way of finding support for myself when I needed it (or maybe I should say, contextualizing my experience and understanding it). But I'm happy now & got a lot to do IRL.

I took Tar's message as a valuable statement on not obsessing over the value of something one doesn't have or can't experience, and I think it still is.

And, Chain, my pronouns are on my profile. I detest being referred to with female pronouns.

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