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For the sexuals and everybody, honest opinion: Is sex really all that great?


Tyger Songbird

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17 minutes ago, James121 said:

I’m definitely missing something here. You are the second person to claim that $1,000,000 may not be a lot. Assuming the average wage in the USA is say $50,000 per year, and assuming you pay some tax and end up with $35,000 in your pocket, it would take 29 years to save $1,000,000 and that assumes that you bought absolutely nothing along the way. On what planet is $1,000,000 not a load of money?

I can’t speak for outside the US but the average is a little misleading here...  in big cities, especially, there are a good number of jobs - executive-level businessperson, small business owner (in certain fields), medical

doctor (in some disciplines), attorney - that pay well enough that a million dollars is roughly 1-2 years’ pay.  A level down from that you have people for whom it would be 3-5 years’ pay.  That’s offset by the larger number of people working minimum wage jobs in labor-intense fields.

 

Point being, the people for whom it’s just a few years’ savings are not only found in “rarified air” jobs almost no one actually holds.

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1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

1-2 years’ pay.  A level down from that you have people for whom it would be 3-5 years’

1-2 years!  Rare!

3-5 - unusual.

 

Anyone here on Aven earn $250,000 per year?

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5 minutes ago, James121 said:

1-2 years!  Rare!

3-5 - unusual.

 

Anyone here on Aven earn $250,000 per year?

I have to assume so, unless we have no one here in those types of jobs.

 

I work for a medium-sized organization in a medium-sized city and hundreds of people there make $250k or more.  One of my best friends is an attorney in a smaller NYC firm and all of them (more than 50) make upwards of $500k.  They are “woefully underpaid” compared to the bigger firms there.

 

Away from cities it would be a lot rarer.

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7 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I have to assume so, unless we have no one here in those types of jobs.

 

I work for a medium-sized organization in a medium-sized city and hundreds of people there make $250k or more.  One of my best friends is an attorney in a smaller NYC firm and all of them (more than 50) make upwards of $500k.  They are “woefully underpaid” compared to the bigger firms there.

 

Away from cities it would be a lot rarer.

How much tax do they pay? Your friends I mean 

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We have what’s termed a “progressive tax system,” which means our taxes aren’t calculated evenly across our whole incomes.  It’s adjusted every year but for 2019 we will pay 10% on the first ~$10,000, 12% on the next $12,000, and so on up to 37% for anything between roughly 300k and 600k. There are also discounts for married couples who file jointly, e.g.  Some states pull another good chunk, others don’t charge income tax at all.

 

So, it’s complicated, but most people are paying no more than 40-50% even way, way up the salary scale.  So, that would mean my NYC friend (who makes about $600k with a $100k bonus) would minimally take home a mill in three years.  She is just an associate, about 6 years out of law school...  only a small handful of attorneys at her firm make less than she does, and the partners make much more.

 

Where I live the cost of living is lower than NYC, and so are the salaries, but there are plenty of folks making well into six figures and some making seven.

 

A million-dollar payoff isn’t going to have the same meaning to them as it will to the person waiting tables.

 

 

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1 hour ago, James121 said:

I’m definitely missing something here. You are the second person to claim that $1,000,000 may not be a lot. Assuming the average wage in the USA is say $50,000 per year, and assuming you pay some tax and end up with $35,000 in your pocket, it would take 29 years to save $1,000,000 and that assumes that you bought absolutely nothing along the way. On what planet is $1,000,000 not a load of money?

When I was 23 and in grad school, I was sometimes borrowing money from friends for food (rice, and spinach).  I would have probably had sex with a man (I'm straight) for $1000 because it would have made such a difference to my life. 

 

Now I have enough money that $1000 doesn't really change anything.  Even if I were not married, it would take a lot of money for me to have sex with someone I wasn't romantically interested in.  As a romantic sexual, sex means something to me , not something I personally can do and forget. But there is a price, just as there was 35 years ago, its just a higher price because I'm wealthier.   

 

I'm also in a sort of flat-spot in money. If someone gave me even $1M, it wouldn't really change my life very much because I have the money to do all the things that I enjoy doing.   I could buy a fancier car, fly business class rather than coach, etc - but none of that really *matters* in any real way to my happiness. 

 

There are people who made a lot of money in high tech startups.  To them $1M might not make much difference at all.  Its not enough to redo the interior of their biz-jet. 

 

Whether or not there *should* be such a large wealth disparity is of course a very different question.    (I think there needs to be some range but its not obvious how much is optimal).

 

OK- going way out on a limb - is prostitution actually a way to move money from the wealthy to the poor?  Apparently some call girls get >$2000 for an evening's work  - presumably from some wealthy guy.  Is that a bad thing?

 

 

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1 minute ago, uhtred said:

OK- going way out on a limb - is prostitution actually a way to move money from the wealthy to the poor?  Apparently some call girls get >$2000 for an evening's work  - presumably from some wealthy guy

It can be... but sometimes it’s just a way to move money from the comparatively wealthy folks to the people who employ the sex workers.

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4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It can be... but sometimes it’s just a way to move money from the comparatively wealthy folks to the people who employ the sex workers.

That is  a HUGE problem. Its why I wish we could completely legalize and regulate prostitution in a way that eliminates the pimps and other middlemen, and ensures safety for the workers. 

 

I agree that prostitution as its done now can be awful. I just think it could be done in a way that was positive for all involved. 

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7 hours ago, uhtred said:

So would you sell the rights to your soul, if it exists, for $20?   

 

I don't think they exist either, but I like watching people think about it. 

Fun fact: a lot of souls are for sale on ebay and the going rate is about $20. Its a signed contract from the seller to the buyer. :lol:

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Oh, agreed, sex work runs the full gamut from lucrative to not quite scraping by and from safe to very much not so, both from country to country and within countries.  I live in a state where most sex work is not legal so there are both extremes and very little in the middle.

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Looking at it another way (and breaking it down responsibly), you’d have to ask yourself if $3,333/month is worth it?  That’s a reasonable cash flow assumption from $1,000,000. 🤔. That barely covers monthly tuition at most private schools. 

 

In my mind, money should = freedom.  $3,300 per month (not indexed to inflation) is not freedom for most even if it would be enough to make things easier for many.

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On another note: I’d have sex with my lover anywhere, anytime for $0. Sometimes, it’s just not about more than what you need and who you’re with....

 

Finding a lovely compromise - priceless! 😊

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ElasticPlanet
10 hours ago, James121 said:
19 hours ago, ElasticPlanet said:

in a situation where not accepting the identities and experiences of the disadvantaged group is not skepticism - it is just denial.

You need to add 3 words to complete the sentence....

 

”in my opinion”

You're talking to a group of people whose experiences are different from yours; you're talking about our experiences and their effect on our quality of life. When we tell you how we would respond to an offer of money in return for living a particular way, because we know first-hand how that would affect us psychologically and practically... you say nope, don't believe it.

 

There's a long history of people not being believed about their own, very real, experiences (to do with race, gender, orientation, social class and so on...) by the privileged group in that society, who then use that denial as an excuse to go on oppressing and erasing. When I try to point out this kind of pattern in what you said to me, that is apparently 'just my opinion'.

 

  • "Pizza should not contain pineapple"

 

  • "Pizza should not contain cyanide"

 

Which of those is just an opinion?

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18 hours ago, ryn2 said:

.  So, that would mean my NYC friend (who makes about $600k with a $100k bonus) would minimally take home a mill in three years.

And the most important part remains unackowledged. Your friend who allegedly takes home $1,000,000 in 3 years only has $1,000,000 left if she spends $0 in 3 years.

 

$0 in three years!

 

Now let’s be a little bit honest about it. Your friend, who earns 12 times the average wage in the USA, could probably save $1,000,000 in around 7-8 years. Again I ask you on what planet is $1m not a lot of money when your friend would take nearly a decade to save it despite the fact that she earns 12 times the average wage.

 

I wonder why you haven’t focused on the 99% of other people you know who probably earn between $30 and $60? Could it be because in reality it would take someone like that around 100 - 200  years to save $1m?

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2 minutes ago, James121 said:

Could it be because in reality it would take someone like that around 100 - 200  years to save $1m?

No, it’s because that wasn’t your question.

 

I would guess the people who brought up the fact that income factors into the “would you or wouldn’t you?” question are people - or have friends or family - who make enough that they have saved, or could save in a reasonable timeframe, a mill or more.  The working theory someone raised (uhtred?  I don’t remember) was that they might be less willing to “sell out” for a mill than less well-off people would.

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Anthracite_Impreza
Spoiler

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anisotrophic

Sooooooo back on thread...

 

On 8/19/2018 at 4:05 PM, tygersongbird said:

It seems like the main go-to argument that I often hear whenever someone doesn't understand asexuality or doesn't understand why people don't want sex is the idea of "Well, sex is something great and awesome, like the greatest thing ever!"

 

Most people will end up saying, "Well, you need to give it a try just to see for yourself!" or "You should do it to prove that you don't like it! It might change your mind overall!" as two types of arguments against being asexual. Yes, I know there are some asexuals who have tried sex, but even then, most people will still end up saying that "It wasn't the right person" or something to them.

...

 

Society always seems to sell sex to us- saying that sex is something is oh, so great, and that it is a highly important thing you just can't go without- do you agree or disagree? Is sex something so great that you would say it's essential for each and everybody? Is sex all that it's really cracked up to be? What do you say?   Yay or nay?


Sex *is* really great if it is *great sex*.

I've got memories from many years ago that still make me blush. How lucky I've been!

It's probably because I have some past experiences of "great sex" that I'm okay about not bothering my partner for sex now. I'm happy to have memories of great sex. I don't see much point in pursuing the not-great sex. I can go without. ;)

And some people just won't ever experience "great sex". My partner has had sex, a very adequate amount, with me and others. There's just nobody and nothing out there for him that'll make it "great" for him, and he doesn't want sex. And that's totally OK too.

For aces that haven't tried sex, I think that's totally fine. Nobody should feel pressured to have sex! Even for sexuals, pressure totally ruins it. 😛 Don't worry about "proving" yourself.

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11 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Honestly, both are. 'Should' is an imperative. David Koresh would probably have been fine dishing out cyanide-infused meat feasts.

I think EP is alluding to the difference between the categorical and hypothetical imperatives, or something similar.

 

I also think that's doubtful about David Koresh, he was more book of revelation than mass suicide.

 

Sorry everyone, back off thread again! I couldn't help it somehow.

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3 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

Nobody should feel pressured to have sex! Even for sexuals, pressure totally ruins it.

*nods*

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Back to the topic on how great sex is.  For me its not exactly the sex that is wonderful, but a good sex life makes me happy.  Since my wife goes through occasional few-month phases of wanting sex I get to see the effect.  During those times I am generally far happier than during times when sex is minimal. 

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5 hours ago, CBC said:

Yeah I'm definitely happier overall when I feel connected to that aspect of myself. A difficult concept to explain to asexuals I've found, but certainly true.

It makes sense to me as, all other things being equal, I’m happier when I’m not.  Unfortunately it’s difficult for me to have both (all other things equal, not) at the same time.

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5 minutes ago, CBC said:

You seem to have a good understanding of the psychological benefit aspect. Some members I've encountered -- perhaps younger ones, those with no relationship experience, repulsed aces, etc. -- just have little to no awareness of the fact that it's a human connection and brain chemistry thing and not just an "I want an orgasm because it feels good in that moment" thing. It makes sense that they wouldn't understand that part.

I think that’s something I have largely learned here.  At least where I live the way people talk about sex - even friends talking among themselves seriously, not just the public message - never conveys that message, which is how I went so long having no idea I was ace*.

 

* I’m still not convinced but more of my “ahah” moments and “huh, yeah, I feel just like that” things are in response to something an ace person has experienced.

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Just now, CBC said:

Hrmm. Occasionally I consider the idea that I'm a massive annoyance who shouldn't be here haha, but I guess there's a benefit to having non-ace members.

Assuming a better understanding of sexuality in general, relationships, and people is part of the benefit of a site like this... absolutely!  Otherwise all people can do is guess at what others “not like them” might be experiencing and with no lived input that’s bound to fail.

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People don’t talk much about their “inner lives,” if you will, so it’s easy to go a long time not recognizing differences.

 

Like the whole fantasies (not just sexual) thing.  The majority of people fantasize about something in some way, and thus can recollect things that they would call fantasies... but it isn’t until you actually discuss (or see others discussing) the details of what you (they) personally experience (or don’t) that you realize “hey, this is not the same for me as it is for others at all!”.

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I think (for me, at least) it’s also easier to focus on puzzling through what I actually experienced when I’m not observing the listener’s response at the same time.

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suzanna12

To answer shortly: An enthusiastic yes! :) For a sexual person sex can be just as fantastic and fulfilling as they say. I often feel a sort of euphoria right after sex -and into the next day. We feel closer with my partner because of having had sex; it's our own little exciting bubble in which we can really let go. It's like a place you can't get to using words or having intellectual conversations.

 

But! Not all sex is equal. Bad sex can be the absolute opposite of that experience. If you have sex for the wrong reasons for you and with a person that you don't desire, it can be disappointing and empty at best and violating, even traumatising, at worst. The act of, say, intercourse is just.. meh if you don't feel want, desire and/or love towards the person you're with. So much of good sex is in your head, not in the physical touch. The same act and all the same movements and activities can feel incredibly good with someone and bland or even awful with someone else.

 

I would never in a million years say that everyone should be having sex -or even trying it. Everyone should just be doing exactly what they want and feel comfortable with. 

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Fluffy Femme Guy
On 4/27/2019 at 7:31 AM, ryn2 said:

The majority of people fantasize about something in some way, and thus can recollect things that they would call fantasies... but it isn’t until you actually discuss (or see others discussing) the details of what you (they) personally experience (or don’t) that you realize “hey, this is not the same for me as it is for others at all!”.

Agreed. It can be a very eye-opening moment when you see how different another persons point of view on the same things can be.

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Philip027

Yeah, I don't experience fantasies.  Don't see the point.  I imagine it's similar to how I don't understand the prevalence or appeal of things like shipping.

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6 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Don't see the point. 

It doesn’t really have a point - it’s just something your brain does (or, in your case, doesn’t do) with its spare time.  I mean, you can learn to fantasize on purpose but it’s like dreaming, daydreaming, etc. - it starts off by just happening.

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1 hour ago, CBC said:

But yeah, many things we do don't have a point other than they bring us comfort or joy or pleasure or security or all those other things that are actually important to our mental health.

Also true.  Fantasizing is often something that just happens, though, when you’re bored or frustrated and your mind wanders.  They aren’t always something you conjure on purpose.

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