Sally Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 On 8/19/2018 at 9:23 AM, Serran said: Most sexuals I know from here have eventually gone the way of not wanting their partner. It seems a natural progression for most. Though, yeah I can see why the ace might be upset over it... cause its not full love for the sexual without that. Yes, because the asexual feels that the sexual is pulling away from them because now they realize they're not having the whole thing with the asexual -- the whole thing not just being sex, but sex fully wanted and appreciated by both partners. And the asexual thinks the sexual may then just find someone else with whom they can have the whole thing. (Which does sometimes happen...) Link to post Share on other sites
Dawning Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 22 hours ago, Marlow1 said: Yes, the title of that book has implications, but believe me it ain't all that lusty, thank goodness, because if it was I would not understand it LOL No, what it is is that rabbi Schmuley in many ways is describing my partner and I, and we both honestly struggled to find anybody that explained relationships in the manner by which how out relationship goes. High and low we searched and it was this frustration that was sending my partner further into the Abyss, as she calls it When she read Rabbi Shmuleys book a peace came over her like I had not seen in many years. I have probably already mentioned here in the past, how gentle and spiritual, and content my partner was before the brain hemhorage. Honestly, she had mentioned to me about her hypersexual stuff before we met, but not in much detail, it did not seem appropriate back then. Then I had the brain hemhorage and it became her job to restore me in every way possible both physical and mental, the stress was horrendous. And we both can laugh at this now but definately not at the time, the garbage that was coming out of my mouth was unbelievable, and especially with the ace thing mixed in. You would not believe half the stuff I was saying As this continued, in the end I do think my partner had some kind of breakdown because that hypersexuality thing set in and there was literally no way to stop it She would say shut up I am getting all those pictures in my mind again. I thought she was crazy, you can't get pictures on your mind, I said!!! Anyway, what a relief to learn about the Aphantasia. Lots of folk on the Aphantasia board said they were Ace, or Demi, or Grey etc. this is when my partner started to see fact that I am wired up different and Rabbi Schmulleys book made me accept wholey the arguement that my partner was putting forward that me not expressing my desirability for her was causing her to have intrusive sexual thoughts. My logic then was I do desire you but I don't have to show it.......I know, I know!!! Recently, we have been sharing what sexual attraction means to each other. My phantasia partner, who not only sees stuff in her mind but hears everything, feels everything, smells, tastes etc, and can chat to herself re everything , and the list goes on. From childhood onwards worked in the entertainment business. She gave this up when she met me, that's a bit of a long story but not entirely to do with me since I would have been happy if she continued. But my point is, not only has she got the tools for all this attraction thing, her experiences from childhood were all rather glamorous, and as she says to me regular, you have to know how to protect yourself when you are in that sort of environment and that makes you more aware of the subtleties of attraction Me as usual, still has very little clue. But I swear I do get sexually attracted to her, but it is in an entirely different way to the way that she is becoming attracted to me Ribbi Shmuley talks about the erotic mind and how many women do experience sexuality on a very high level because their sexual mind is so entwined with the emotional mind I can't say this is across the board, I don't know enough about sex or attraction, and I don't even really know any other women to ask. But what Rabbi Schmuley is describing fits my partner to a tee. But also some of the things he says about guys not understanding the erotic mind in the context of what he is speaking, that is me too I will try to think through how my partner and I are experiencing the attraction so differently but both claiming equality in value. I do think that there might even be other ways for folk to become attracted and I think the experience of it can be different. After seeing what does go on with us, and reading up on it I can see attraction can be subjective, but still valid because both she and me are seeing things very differently Oh yes, the idea of a blog. It might happen, but like you say we are so unique, is there anybody else out there anything even like us . Ha ha Your partner sounds like such a fascinating lady… and a little bit of a saint too, if you don't mind my saying so! It seems like you gave her a pretty rough time for a while there. But here you are, having figured so many things out, reconciled such extreme differences; seriously, there should be a very good article in this, or maybe a book! Or, sort of serializing it on a blog could work too. You have a built-in audience right here on this forum! Rabbi Shmuley is probably making some excellent points; I of course have no way to judge that, LOL. I think you may be on to something, about this idea that there could be different ways of experiencing attraction, even beyond the 4 types that we talk about here. It would be very interesting if you could really describe your experience of it, since you can neither see nor hear anything inside your head. Link to post Share on other sites
ChainReact Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Regarding the great “how probable are ace-poly relationships”, I think a factor that would shift things towards these relationships being more common than amongst the general population is the mere fact that the sexual in the relationship is more likely to really contemplate the possibility. I think there are many cases in which someone who would be poly if it weren’t for social pressures against it remains monogamous and my even consider him or herself monogamous by virtue of never having explored the question. I’m not sure what the numbers would be, but I’ll bet it’s pretty significant. I suppose we could compare the rates of polyamory in less sexually repressed societies to get some sort of idea what kind of influence this would have. Link to post Share on other sites
ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Dawning said: You have a built-in audience right here on this forum! Hello, @Marlow1. @Dawning nailed it in the head. You do have an audience. I've been following Dawning, so I've gotten the chance to read all these posts. I find it pretty fascinating, so far. Keep it up! Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 24 August 2018 at 10:47 AM, Dawning said: Your partner sounds like such a fascinating lady… and a little bit of a saint too, if you don't mind my saying so! It seems like you gave her a pretty rough time for a while there. But here you are, having figured so many things out, reconciled such extreme differences; seriously, there should be a very good article in this, or maybe a book! Or, sort of serializing it on a blog could work too. You have a built-in audience right here on this forum! Rabbi Shmuley is probably making some excellent points; I of course have no way to judge that, LOL. I think you may be on to something, about this idea that there could be different ways of experiencing attraction, even beyond the 4 types that we talk about here. It would be very interesting if you could really describe your experience of it, since you can neither see nor hear anything inside your head. I experience sexual attraction in much the same way that a blind person does https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/advice/a5936/what-blind-people-find-sexy/ My partner did not know that I am wired up differently (Aphantasia) and she could not understand why it is that when I am under stress that I loose my attraction to her and so on. I need several things so that I can be attracted Time with my partner, lots of it, doing romantic and fun things Calm environment. Cosy home, time with nature and stuff Although my partner is exceptionally beautiful, and I can get attracted just by looking at her, this is not the usual way that I am attracted to her. It is everything about her, her smile, her laugh, her voice, her conversation, her touch and so on that create the pull towards her in me Each time that we make love it is kind of like the first time. I can't 'see' or even 'chat to myself' about any past times. And although I have memory of these things I cannot relive them in my mind. So to me when we are making love it is even more special, I think, than the average person!!! I won't often initiate. Not because I don't want to, not because I don't like sex. I just don't have the ability to fantasize like other folk do. In other words sex ain't on my mind that much. But when my partner is all sexy and romantic and sensual, I simply cannot resist. I am fortunate that she does not take this as an insult, she actually enjoys being seductive, in a charming way, not in a gross way, thank goodness (she asked me to explain that last bit lol) My partner, her mind is full of sexual, romantic, sensual images and stories. She tells me her mind is like a romantic novel, where romantic passion is the most important emotion and act for her. She pines for physical connection, and loves all the flirting, playing, giggling, and intimate time together She fantasizes for hours each day about a multitude of things relating to sex, romance, intimacy etc. She takes snippets from our past experiences, and adds in fantasy, to create the atmospher in her mind. She says the experience in her mind is like a very romantic, erotic, kind of cute romance movie. And the most important thing relating to all this is her need to feel desired, chosen, special, unique and to know that I think she is beautiful. If I make sure she knows this she will be in her element, not hyper, just very content and playful! I am predominately in the present, my partner is predominantly in her mind To achieve all this much time and energy needs to be invested from both sides. We also need to know each other more and more, and appreciate the differences. Finding out about the Aphantasia and how my mind is wired up differently is what turned things around for us Hope this makes sense. I would have preferred to word it better. It is so difficult to describe how we are becoming attracted and how this varies from a allies yak person and what they go through. I do think sexual attraction is a very individual thing for each person, whether they are coming up to it, like me, or calming it down a little like my partner??? Link to post Share on other sites
anamikanon Posted August 25, 2018 Author Share Posted August 25, 2018 @Marlow1I find your descriptions of your journey fascinating. You had said earlier that my ace could have Aphantasia and I'd disagreed. He does have a lot of mental imagery. In fact, his arousal operates mostly through mental imagery. He doesn't directly feel desire for me in the way sexuals so easily can. But he can associate the situation we are in with a mental image that is erotic and feel aroused. The funny thing is that this, to my mind is how sexuals feel desire for a person too to some extent, where the person fits what we find erotic and thus we are attracted - but these are distinct steps in his mind and not one fluid process. So, if he has an image of coming from out of town and being greeted with a warm hug and hot oral sex before he can even get his shoes off, I can totally jump him when he gets home, and it will be a success - guaranteed. But I can act all sexy and seductive and it will do nothing unless he has an erotic mental image he can match it with in his mind. In some ways it is the opposite of your situation, and yet the insights from your posts are very useful anyway, perhaps because wherever the direct chain of spontaneous desire is disrupted, the thinking that needs to go into making it work needs this kind of in depth understanding of what is going on. Your posts and the way you break down the process help me understand our process better too, even though the actual difficulties and steps we need to take are different. Link to post Share on other sites
Lucinda Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 9 hours ago, Marlow1 said: Each time that we make love it is kind of like the first time. I can't 'see' or even 'chat to myself, about any past times. And although I have memory of these things I cannot relive them in my mind. So to me when we are making love it is even more special, I think, than the average person!!! I won't often initiate. Not because I don't want to, not because I don't like sex. I just don't have the ability to fantasize like other folk do. In other words sex ain't on my mind that much. Hi Marlow! This is fascinating and new. There was a lady who posted here some time ago and said these were practically the same words her husband told her. At the time, she was rather insulted and let it feed into her not-attractive mindset. When she found AVEN, she was relieved that it wasn't her as she felt this phenomenon was tied directly to what she started to believe was his asexuality. There was no discussion on this board or in her real life of aphantasia. Additionally, he said he did not relate to the information she had printed off on asexuality, and again repeated the words above. I distinctly remember she said that when they were courting, he was quite interested in physical intimacy, but they both refrained from sex for religious reasons. After they were married, they were in a bad car accident. His head hit the windshield and his legs were injured to the extent that he was immobile for months. Could the severe blow to the head have somehow caused aphantasia? 9 hours ago, Marlow1 said: My partner, her mind is full of sexual, romantic, sensual images and stories. She tells me her mind is like a romantic novel, where romantic passion is the most important emotion and act for her. The lady above mentioned romance novels too. Anyway, thanks to you and anamikanon for sharing your individual processes within your separate relationships as well as introducing a new word "aphantasia" to me. Lucinda Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 19 hours ago, Lucinda said: Hi Marlow! This is fascinating and new. There was a lady who posted here some time ago and said these were practically the same words her husband told her. At the time, she was rather insulted and let it feed into her not-attractive mindset. When she found AVEN, she was relieved that it wasn't her as she felt this phenomenon was tied directly to what she started to believe was his asexuality. There was no discussion on this board or in her real life of aphantasia. Additionally, he said he did not relate to the information she had printed off on asexuality, and again repeated the words above. I distinctly remember she said that when they were courting, he was quite interested in physical intimacy, but they both refrained from sex for religious reasons. After they were married, they were in a bad car accident. His head hit the windshield and his legs were injured to the extent that he was immobile for months. Could the severe blow to the head have somehow caused aphantasia? The lady above mentioned romance novels too. Anyway, thanks to you and anamikanon for sharing your individual processes within your separate relationships as well as introducing a new word "aphantasia" to me. Lucinda Hello Lucinda Yes, a severe injury to the head can induce Aphantasia and there are many people that have developed Aphantasia this was. As you may have read I have had a brain hemhorrage but this is not how I developed Aphantasia, I was born with it People that grow up with it often do not know that they have it. They think everybody thinks like them and many say they think terms like 'Picture this' or 'count sheep' are simply metaphorical I have tried hard today to explain why sex for me is somewhat different to my partners experience. My partner is Allosexual and I am Demisexual and although I had Aphantasia before the brain hemhorrage (we did not know I had it then) we were fine, more than fine, a lovely couple with a lovely sex life, and a tonne more But following the brain hemhorrage I became a lot more Asexual and this messed my partner up. And hence, our journey!!! Now because my partner did not know about Demisexuality, nor Aphantasia, she assumed that before the brain hemhorrage that I was allosexual just like her. After the brain hemhorrage when the Asexual stuff started to appear, because she thought it was the brain hemhorrage she stood by me and tried to figure out how she might be able to help me get right, so to speak Oh dear me, only you guys here can imagine what this was like for her. A long story short, the distress led to her becoming Hypersexual, with intrusive thoughts, and she became ill, with feelings of guilt and shame. And me I had no clue at all that my behaviour and what I was saying to her was making her feel this way but the very day we learned about the Aphantasia was the very day she began to get well. And now she is doing exceptionally well. Especially when we compare it to the mess she got in We are both in therapy. And we are both using many healing techniques to help us both with the whole thing. Right now, although neither of us are healed completely, we would both say our relationship is in a wonderful place. Honestly, my partner has been to Hell and back, and I have and still have a fair few difficulties too. But now that we are on the other side of all this, both of us feel we are closer than ever. I just hope that when folk read our story, even if they do not have Aphantasia, realising that there are folk in the world that are literally wired up differently, hopefully folk might be able to identify a bit better what is going on for them. Honestly, realising that we are wired up differently is what has saved out relationship. We love each other to bits! Regarding the romance novels, at this thread here I have been explaining how my partner and I are using romantic movies to help us regarding our relationship and other folk are sharing here about their experience with Aphantasia too Hope this is helpful Marlow1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dawning Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 20 hours ago, Marlow1 said: I experience sexual attraction in much the same way that a blind person does https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/advice/a5936/what-blind-people-find-sexy/ My partner did not know that I am wired up differently (Aphantasia) and she could not understand why it is that when I am under stress that I loose my attraction to her and so on. I need several things so that I can be attracted Time with my partner, lots of it, doing romantic and fun things Calm environment. Cosy home, time with nature and stuff Although my partner is exceptionally beautiful, and I can get attracted just by looking at her, this is not the usual way that I am attracted to her. It is everything about her, her smile, her laugh, her voice, her conversation, her touch and so on that create the pull towards her in me Each time that we make love it is kind of like the first time. I can't 'see' or even 'chat to myself' about any past times. And although I have memory of these things I cannot relive them in my mind. So to me when we are making love it is even more special, I think, than the average person!!! I won't often initiate. Not because I don't want to, not because I don't like sex. I just don't have the ability to fantasize like other folk do. In other words sex ain't on my mind that much. But when my partner is all sexy and romantic and sensual, I simply cannot resist. I am fortunate that she does not take this as an insult, she actually enjoys being seductive, in a charming way, not in a gross way, thank goodness (she asked me to explain that last bit lol) My partner, her mind is full of sexual, romantic, sensual images and stories. She tells me her mind is like a romantic novel, where romantic passion is the most important emotion and act for her. She pines for physical connection, and loves all the flirting, playing, giggling, and intimate time together She fantasizes for hours each day about a multitude of things relating to sex, romance, intimacy etc. She takes snippets from our past experiences, and adds in fantasy, to create the atmospher in her mind. She says the experience in her mind is like a very romantic, erotic, kind of cute romance movie. And the most important thing relating to all this is her need to feel desired, chosen, special, unique and to know that I think she is beautiful. If I make sure she knows this she will be in her element, not hyper, just very content and playful! I am predominately in the present, my partner is predominantly in her mind To achieve all this much time and energy needs to be invested from both sides. We also need to know each other more and more, and appreciate the differences. Finding out about the Aphantasia and how my mind is wired up differently is what turned things around for us Hope this makes sense. I would have preferred to word it better. It is so difficult to describe how we are becoming attracted and how this varies from a allies yak person and what they go through. I do think sexual attraction is a very individual thing for each person, whether they are coming up to it, like me, or calming it down a little like my partner??? It's fascinating that you experience attraction the way a blind person does, because, as just an early hypothesis, that could mean that attraction is largely based on what we can see in our heads, not directly from what we see with our eyes. Having each incident of lovemaking feel like the first time has got to be a big plus for you! Does your partner know about this? And how beautiful you think she is? :-) I can't even imagine what it must be like to see what she sees in her head; I hope it makes up for the times when she feels overwhelmed! More and more, I've been thinking that there are differences in how attraction works from person to person, based on more than just gender and orientation… Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 On 26 August 2018 at 5:34 AM, Dawning said: It's fascinating that you experience attraction the way a blind person does, because, as just an early hypothesis, that could mean that attraction is largely based on what we can see in our heads, not directly from what we see with our eyes. Having each incident of lovemaking feel like the first time has got to be a big plus for you! Does your partner know about this? And how beautiful you think she is? :-) I can't even imagine what it must be like to see what she sees in her head; I hope it makes up for the times when she feels overwhelmed! More and more, I've been thinking that there are differences in how attraction works from person to person, based on more than just gender and orientation… Yes, I could not do anything for myself, I could not walk or speak etc. My partner was sad about all that but coped with it, it was when she started to think that I was not attracted to her any more, and when she realised that there is so much from our life together, before the brain hemhorrage, that I cannot remember, these two things were what made her poorly, she says, not the brain hemhorrage or the ill health Worse still, before we new about the Aphantasia and Demisexuality our communication was terrible. Hindered partly from the brain hemhorrage speech problem, but more so from us not knowing where the other was coming from. We were both using the same 'words' but for each of us those same words had very different meaning Through this time there was no way for me to explain how special my partner is for me. Normally when a sexual relationship goes pair shaped like ours had it is an indicator that there is something very wrong and most relationships end. I have read that following a brain hemhorrage up to 80% of their relationship end within five years. But at the time, I could not see anything wrong for us. I just thought we were OK Things changed for us when we found out about the Aphantasia and folk on the Aphantasia Spectrum said they believe that they are on the Asexual Spectrum too. That is when we began to see what is going on for us More recently I have been reading articles from folk on the Aphantasia Spectrum. Many of them say they either don't get attracted to anybody or must know a person really well. Obviously the latter is the case for me, but this is the one and only time that I have been attracted to anybody. So for at least half of my life I was Asexual and this only changed with the long courtship I had with my partner, and when the Asexual stuff returned, basically we went through another long courtship??? I really believe I cannot be attracted to anybody else. It was not just getting to know her as a person, it's another zillion factors, and it is literally her as a person, every aspect of her, it all fits together as a whole, as a concept. The most important concept in my mind and pretty much the only one I really want to think about. I can think about other things but the one thing I do want to think about is her The two of us have been thrusted together basically full time because of the brain hemhorrage and such. She knows now that it is not just that I need her, I absolutely adore her, and for a zillion reasons just cannot adore anybody else It is true what I said about the sex. I can remember some things we have done, and as I ponder on it I can have nice thoughts about it, but I cannot 'relive' it. It it is sad but true, the things I do recall are in the past, never to be seen or felt again here, just remembered in a cute kind of way I guess. But for my partner, she remembers it all in glorious colour, smell, taste and so on. She has a narrator in her head telling her how marvelous everything was. She doesn't just relive it all she revels in it all LOL The next time that we make love, at that time it will feel like the one and only time for me. I won't really remember any other time and I won't be able to imagine any other time for the future But my partner, oh golly gosh, she not only remembers everything, she relives it and especially relives it at the time when we are making love, and can even think about it in the future. She tells me that being able to remember past times enhances these new times, and thinking over many times means she can imagine future times that have not taken place yet WOW, no really WOW She says all this phantasia is what makes it so magnificent for her. I beg to differ, I believe this feeling of it being the one and only time that makes it so wonderful I have changed because of the brain hemhorrage, that is true, but the recovery stuff we have done, this has changed us both, and this is definitely for the better For a long time my partner invested all of her time and energy into trying to get her partner back, the way we was before the brain hemhorrage. This was her goal and now because of everything that has happened that can't happen. We are both changed forever. It it is hard, so very hard sometimes but both of us think that as a couple we are stronger now. And although there is going to be more healing to take place, now that we know what is going on there really is hope for us You have mentioned the perception and the mind. Yes, I agree all that we are seeing is subjective. It most definitely is in my mind, I can only be attracted to the concept that I have in my mind. I can't be attracted to anybody else. And it too a very long time to build up that concept to be in love with etc. My partner has the types thing, the fantasy thing, the projecting thing going on, and in so many ways she hates it. Through therapy though, she is learning to control it, back like she was controlling it before the brain hemhorrage. The more she can control it her attraction towards me goes to the way that she wants it to be, and then she becomes happy. And her attraction towards me grows etc I do hope this makes sense. These things are not the easiest things in the world to explain Link to post Share on other sites
Dawning Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 You and your partner present a fascinating conundrum; which is the more powerful or special experience, lovemaking embroidered with memories of the past and fantasies of the future, or lovemaking where, as the song goes, it feels like the first time? Wouldn't THAT be an interesting thing to study! How much of asexuality, demi-sexuality, etc, is due to aphantasia? I'm also wondering more and more if my having no concept of gender is related to my aphantasia… Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 On 27 August 2018 at 7:18 AM, Dawning said: You and your partner present a fascinating conundrum; which is the more powerful or special experience, lovemaking embroidered with memories of the past and fantasies of the future, or lovemaking where, as the song goes, it feels like the first time? Wouldn't THAT be an interesting thing to study! How much of asexuality, demi-sexuality, etc, is due to aphantasia? I'm also wondering more and more if my having no concept of gender is related to my aphantasia… I personally am a hetro-romantic demisexual. I don't know why I know this I just know I am But I have spoken to a lot of folk with Aphantasia that say they are either Asexual or Grey. I have never asked about gender but this blogger has mentioned it here. You could devise a poll??? https://medium.com/@artkavanagh/gender-identity-and-aphantasia-e0c93850ffb1 In the meantime, earlier today, I noticed that my last post was rather long. I think I answered several questions from different posts here all at once, I do that sometimes. Hope I am not overwhelming folk here. I will try to just answer one question at a time in the future Link to post Share on other sites
Dawning Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Thank you for the link to that blog post! Like him, I have no visual image of myself at all; it never even occurred to me that I should have one, could have one, or might try to envision one. I'm having to give increasing consideration to the fact that I might suddenly acquire a gender in the traditional sense, and possibly a non-asexual orientation as well, if I have the big breakthrough and acquire something like normal visualization. I don't know what to make of that, and have no clue how to be prepared for it. Is there any appropriately delicate way to ask your brother if his growing ability to see images has altered his demi-sexuality at all? Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Dawning said: Thank you for the link to that blog post! Like him, I have no visual image of myself at all; it never even occurred to me that I should have one, could have one, or might try to envision one. I'm having to give increasing consideration to the fact that I might suddenly acquire a gender in the traditional sense, and possibly a non-asexual orientation as well, if I have the big breakthrough and acquire something like normal visualization. I don't know what to make of that, and have no clue how to be prepared for it. Is there any appropriately delicate way to ask your brother if his growing ability to see images has altered his demi-sexuality at all? There are others that say they don't have the voice either on the Aphantasia board, and then everybody else is better or worse with the other senses The last post that I have added to this thread explains how my partner (high phantasia) experience thought in her minds eye, and how I compare re all senses, the voice and feelings - zero this does not mean that I have no feelings though, I have ample of those, it is just as I think of things I don't re- experience the feeling of the time. Instead I have the thought, I remember what the feelings were at the time, and then I have a feeling about that An example, when I recall my parents death, I know I was very sad at the time and so I will get sad about the fact that I was sad at that time. I know I was really happy to see my partner today, and so as I recall that, I can be happy that I was happy. And this is how it happens for me across the board. I hope this makes sense We have mentioned the Demisexual stuff to my brother but he seems to struggle to grasp the concept. My partner asked him again, yesturday, if he has a girlfriend yet. He said there is nobody out there for him, he is too picky. He said to her, really what I need is somebody that fits in with my lifestyle. What he means by that doing the GAPs diet and all the alternative stuff he is into. He is meaning somebody like my partner lol But no, I don't think the changes that have occurred so far have changed much for him, he is still looking at life in general in the way he and I always have done. The commonality, I mean, some might call it being on the Asexual Spectrum, but since it spreads out much further than this, it is a general outlook generally. If that makes sense. I guess I would say it is more the Aphantasia generally. Like me he is not getting those things my partner is experiencing. He is much more like me, but now with images, stills, not videos, and only a limited number of pictures, that he is constantly repeating. But saying this, if this does mushroom for him, it could do, there might be more change in him yet He is using the GAPs and Ketosis. What I have observed with this regarding myself and others is that the healing occurs in clumps. We can go for weeks or months with not a lot going on and thrn suddenly we can move on to the next level. My brother is healthier than me in general. He has not had a brain hemhorrage or anything like that. He could have a healing session again soon, and if he does that might take him to the next level. In the meantime he continues with his eye exercises and such. And he is keen to do this English Literature stuff with my partner. She believed that this can help with the romance stuff in real life. Both my brother and I are already romantic, but learning this 'Romeo and Juliet' style stuff she has got us onto, yep, I would say, it does help communicate romance at a deeper level. Gosh I don't think anybody could ever be as gushy as my partner though. She just loves being in love, loves the idea of being in love, is the best example I have, of being in love, she is literally like a walking romance movie to me lol I don't know if you would acquire gender through this process. I don't even know how I know I am Hetro-romantic demisexual. I just know. If I get to figuring out how I know I will let you know. Link to post Share on other sites
Dawning Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Other senses?! I haven't even thought of them, but a quick check showed that I have zero for smell, taste and touch as well. I mostly don't have feelings connected with memories. If something is dramatic enough, and recent enough, then I'll feel something, but other than that, it's as if I were recounting a story from a novel. I can remember if I was sad or happy about something, but I have no emotional reaction to that, either. Is your brother maybe wishing that he had set himself up with your partner instead of you, LOL? It's so awesome that she is willing to help him, even after all the time she spends helping you! Some people are just naturally eager to help others. I don't know what might happen if I suddenly gain a meaningful ability to visualize. It's sort of freaky to think about! Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 21 hours ago, Dawning said: Other senses?! I haven't even thought of them, but a quick check showed that I have zero for smell, taste and touch as well. I mostly don't have feelings connected with memories. If something is dramatic enough, and recent enough, then I'll feel something, but other than that, it's as if I were recounting a story from a novel. I can remember if I was sad or happy about something, but I have no emotional reaction to that, either. Is your brother maybe wishing that he had set himself up with your partner instead of you, LOL? It's so awesome that she is willing to help him, even after all the time she spends helping you! Some people are just naturally eager to help others. I don't know what might happen if I suddenly gain a meaningful ability to visualize. It's sort of freaky to think about! LOL, there is an ongoing joke in this house about 'all the guys that fancy my wife'. When we first went into therapy my wife was telling the therapist that I deliberately make her jealous. I was astounded and had zero idea what she was talking about. She told me women hit on me and I let them. I protested my innocence. Weeks went by with these conversations, but we were not getting anywhere, she accused me, and I denied everything she said, and we both swore we were telling the truth At this stage we did not know I had Aphantasia or that I am Demisexual but more to the point I did not know my partner was a Sexual, and that not only could she see when people are behaving in a flirtatious manner, she herself can become attracted to other folk The months went by, and the circular conversations continued, when one day out of sheer frustration she said, 'Don't you know that everybody fancies your wife?' I was dumb founded. She then started going on and on about all the guys she has been attracted to but never ever acted upon any of it, and how I insult her when I am letting these women hit on me Honestly, I had no idea what she was talking about and was totally shocked when she said she can get attracted to other people. The long story short about all this is this is the beginning of us finding out that I am Demisexual. I don't get attracted to anybody but my wife and, the flirting lark, oh dear me, I can't even tell you how ignorant I am to all that I never new folk would carry on like that once you are married. I thought everybody was the same as me, only able to be attracted to their partner, including my wife. I thought she and I were the same I could prattle on about this all night but you know what the funny thing is, I did think she did not love me when she said she gets attracted to folk, but now I understand it, and know for certainty she won't stray, I am less hurt by it. But when she said lots of guys fancy her, she said that to make me angry, because she was so angry with me, my reaction was entirely different than she expected, I was kind of chuffty. I said 'Really lots of guys fancy you? Oh well it must be because you are beautiful' LOL I just don't get jealous of it. She goes crazy, if she thinks somebody is interested in me, but I see it the opposite with her, I get kind of proud. She goes mad about this sometimes. She says to me, surely you get jealous, I say, but I know you won't stray. She says, yes but it is normal to be a bit jealous. Honestly it just does not happen, I just get more proud LOL But anyway. Although this was a problem in the past, mainly with me being so ignorant, it is less of a problem now because I do now think more about how what I do, or let others do might upset her. But honestly, she is such a diamond, guys are going to fancy her, but I know that I can trust her and she won't let even the smallest thing happen My brother, he is like me, and regarding my wife, he is going to see things like I do generally, and he won't get attracted to her. I really don't think he will. But he does know, from what he sees with me and her, the love between us, he does know that is what he wants. He does not want my wife, but he does want a relationship like the relationship that we have Regarding the helping. We are all very close. And we all do help each other a lot. I know my wife helps my brother because she thinks the more well we both do the more he and I can help each other on this path. Plus my brother loves all the alternative stuff, and she does. I do too, but these two they have it on a very high level. And it is a spiritual thing. They both love helping spread the word about healing techniques and so on Gosh, this post is long. I just wanted really to show the lack of jealousy thing. I do think that is an Aphantasia thing too, at least in part. Yes the senses..... You did not mention if you can 'hear' things. I know you can hear yourself speaking, but do you get noises like a dog barking, a train tutting, the beep of a horn. Because folk with high levels of Phantasia get that! Link to post Share on other sites
Dawning Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Had you somehow made it to adulthood never hearing any stories about people cheating on their partners, multiple partners, open relationships...? Did you have some sort of rationale for why people cheat, like they were just doing it for the physical act of sex with people that they weren't attracted to? I think that you and your wife have a very special relationship, but I hope that your brother can find something very similar, and that you can all be friends together! I can hear any sound in my mind, including my own voice, but I rarely try to hear any of those other sounds, because there isn't actually any benefit to it for the most part: it's not necessary to be able to think, in other words. Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Dawning said: Had you somehow made it to adulthood never hearing any stories about people cheating on their partners, multiple partners, open relationships...? Did you have some sort of rationale for why people cheat, like they were just doing it for the physical act of sex with people that they weren't attracted to? I think that you and your wife have a very special relationship, but I hope that your brother can find something very similar, and that you can all be friends together! I can hear any sound in my mind, including my own voice, but I rarely try to hear any of those other sounds, because there isn't actually any benefit to it for the most part: it's not necessary to be able to think, in other words. We discussed this in therapy. I guess I just thought that if a person is in love they don't get attracted to other people, full stop. I would say to my partner, but you know you can trust me. I never actually thought any of the people she was talking about were really hitting on me. My reasoning, I guess, was they new I loved my wife so they would not do that In the end my partner started to point it out when guys were interested in her and started to show me how she gets rid of them. I was shocked. These guys often did not even care if I was stood right next to her. I had never noticed any of all this in the past I see it now. But it all seems alien to me. In the world I used to live in there was only she and me in my mind. Even now I do default back to that way of thinking. I have to put effort in to remember that some folk might flirt with me just to get a reaction out of her, or something, it's hard for me to see things this way. And it's hard for me to compute she will be bothered. I don't get jealous, but she says that she does not give me reason to be jealous because she gets rid of them. This is a fair comment Several years ago we also set up the TV system so that only certain TV channels came through, mainly the news, old movies, sport, music, documentaries and so on. This was because my partner said violence and other stuff on TV affected her. I was not an avid TV watcher anyway and so I accepted her decision regarding this. But, because of this I did not see much smut and stuff on TV and so I thought that kind of thing was rare too. When I did see it because I was not getting attracted to it, I just thought folk were joking, and pretending to be interested in each other etc I did know people in real life that had had affairs etc but I thought they had just fallen out of love and were moving on. I saw the damage, the devastated partner, children getting affected and so on but I also thought it was rare that folk did this. In the main my family and her family are pretty faithful. Or so I thought, more recently since being in therapy I have clicked on a bit more that some of these folk might not be, but again I needed it pointing out to me, I don't just naturally see it Since learning more about it I do now see I am the one that is different. I just don't get attracted to other folk, not ever My partner does, but she says she has a first base rule where just the slightest hint of attraction and she gets out of there She told me that she thought I was thinking like her and that I too just took myself out of the situation. She did not know I never comprehend such situations. But she did pretty much know I was faithful to her. This is why she could not understand it at all that when folk were hitting on me, I did not do anything. I could not see it but she thought I was no longer guarding myself from it. But I saw no need to guard. I did not even think about it. But I guess I just thought she did not get attracted either and that since we love each other there is no need to worry This niavity in me frustrates my partner. Now that we know about the Aphantasia and Demisexuality she is more accepting of it. And just kindly but firmly points it out to me, when we are out and about etc. In the past, she would see me being friendly to the folk that she feels was hitting on me, and me just letting them, and her mind would wander onto how to even the score and such. That's how her hypersexual struggle began. But it only stayed in her mind she did not act out, and this messed her up somewhat. She gets guilt about it all, mainly because in the past she never let her mind go that way at all This is why I am glad we found AVEN. Since being here we have begun to understand each other better and better regarding all this. Folk say to her you should be glad he is Demisexual, and only attracted to you, and it is so unlikely he will stray. I thought this too, but there is more to it than this. A lot of it is to do with making sure she feels respected and cherished. Me just saying don't worry about it, that made things a lot worse When you are the person that is not getting attracted and your mind does not really think that way it is hard to envisage what is going on in other peoples heads. It is hard also, for the sexual person, to really believe that the Demisexuel person is not getting attracted and is so green when it comes to society and all the sexual stuff that does go on. It is only because we have had a zillion conversations about all this, Me constantly struggling to understand everything, and spending so much time figuring out what things mean, I think my partner sees this now as evidence that what I am saying is real. Honestly, who would believe any of all this from either side???? We are fortunate that we can laugh about so much of this now Link to post Share on other sites
anamikanon Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 Interesting conversation. Mostly reading. Thought to chime in with an update (on my OP situation): So far, so good. We've had sex a few times. About once or twice a week. I still don't really feel sexually interested in him till we actually start touching. Then it is arousal and the familiar drive home, so to say. Not what I call a "normal sexual relationship" but an improvement over the indifferent fog I was in. It is crystal clear that sex is better than no sex - for both of us, even though he's ace. So this is some form of improvement already. Both of us are noticeably more spontaneous in our behavior with each other. Clearly though, this is a transition phase. For both of us. We are exploring possibilities. Feeling quite thankful that my ace is quite open to sex these days (immediately after discovering asexuality, he was so completely off sex, it was like living with a stranger). Now, he's sort of okay as long as it doesn't get too frequent. And his idea of "too frequent" isn't too terrible either, given how a lot of sexuals here would die happy to be laid once a week. So there is a lot of middle ground possible. Remains to be seen what works for us in terms of a new normal. And of course, whether I start feeling attracted to him again. It can feel distinctly... odd to have sex with someone you're mostly indifferent about till you start getting into it. Link to post Share on other sites
Dawning Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On September 1, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Marlow1 said: We discussed this in therapy. I guess I just thought that if a person is in love they don't get attracted to other people, full stop. I would say to my partner, but you know you can trust me. I never actually thought any of the people she was talking about were really hitting on me. My reasoning, I guess, was they new I loved my wife so they would not do that In the end my partner started to point it out when guys were interested in her and started to show me how she gets rid of them. I was shocked. These guys often did not even care if I was stood right next to her. I had never noticed any of all this in the past I see it now. But it all seems alien to me. In the world I used to live in there was only she and me in my mind. Even now I do default back to that way of thinking. I have to put effort in to remember that some folk might flirt with me just to get a reaction out of her, or something, it's hard for me to see things this way. And it's hard for me to compute she will be bothered. I don't get jealous, but she says that she does not give me reason to be jealous because she gets rid of them. This is a fair comment Several years ago we also set up the TV system so that only certain TV channels came through, mainly the news, old movies, sport, music, documentaries and so on. This was because my partner said violence and other stuff on TV affected her. I was not an avid TV watcher anyway and so I accepted her decision regarding this. But, because of this I did not see much smut and stuff on TV and so I thought that kind of thing was rare too. When I did see it because I was not getting attracted to it, I just thought folk were joking, and pretending to be interested in each other etc I did know people in real life that had had affairs etc but I thought they had just fallen out of love and were moving on. I saw the damage, the devastated partner, children getting affected and so on but I also thought it was rare that folk did this. In the main my family and her family are pretty faithful. Or so I thought, more recently since being in therapy I have clicked on a bit more that some of these folk might not be, but again I needed it pointing out to me, I don't just naturally see it Since learning more about it I do now see I am the one that is different. I just don't get attracted to other folk, not ever My partner does, but she says she has a first base rule where just the slightest hint of attraction and she gets out of there She told me that she thought I was thinking like her and that I too just took myself out of the situation. She did not know I never comprehend such situations. But she did pretty much know I was faithful to her. This is why she could not understand it at all that when folk were hitting on me, I did not do anything. I could not see it but she thought I was no longer guarding myself from it. But I saw no need to guard. I did not even think about it. But I guess I just thought she did not get attracted either and that since we love each other there is no need to worry This niavity in me frustrates my partner. Now that we know about the Aphantasia and Demisexuality she is more accepting of it. And just kindly but firmly points it out to me, when we are out and about etc. In the past, she would see me being friendly to the folk that she feels was hitting on me, and me just letting them, and her mind would wander onto how to even the score and such. That's how her hypersexual struggle began. But it only stayed in her mind she did not act out, and this messed her up somewhat. She gets guilt about it all, mainly because in the past she never let her mind go that way at all This is why I am glad we found AVEN. Since being here we have begun to understand each other better and better regarding all this. Folk say to her you should be glad he is Demisexual, and only attracted to you, and it is so unlikely he will stray. I thought this too, but there is more to it than this. A lot of it is to do with making sure she feels respected and cherished. Me just saying don't worry about it, that made things a lot worse When you are the person that is not getting attracted and your mind does not really think that way it is hard to envisage what is going on in other peoples heads. It is hard also, for the sexual person, to really believe that the Demisexuel person is not getting attracted and is so green when it comes to society and all the sexual stuff that does go on. It is only because we have had a zillion conversations about all this, Me constantly struggling to understand everything, and spending so much time figuring out what things mean, I think my partner sees this now as evidence that what I am saying is real. Honestly, who would believe any of all this from either side???? We are fortunate that we can laugh about so much of this now I think that in the first wild rush of infatuation, most folks probably don't get attracted to other people, but that super-intense phase is typically very short-lived. You were probably aware that almost all men look at porn, and are attracted to what they see there; did you write that off as not counting because it wasn't in person? It would be such a wonderful world if people didn't hit on those that they knew to be married and love their spouses, wouldn't it? That's the problem with being a moral person; you tend to assume, falsely, that everyone else is using your same moral standards. I am totally blind to flirting, regardless of who is flirting with whom. Understanding about that stuff, and being able to do it at will, would be useful skills to have, but since sex is never my goal, I'm OK without it. You're probably not missing too much, with your limited TV channels. Isn't it funny how often people like us who for whatever reasons have gaps in our social understanding assume that normal people are just kidding or faking? Based on all the articles and books that get written, it seems that "normal" people have plenty of difficulty communicating in relationships, even without the hurdles that we have to overcome. I think that you and your partner are probably communicating better than most people across the board at this point; that's a true blessing! Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 22 hours ago, Dawning said: I think that in the first wild rush of infatuation, most folks probably don't get attracted to other people, but that super-intense phase is typically very short-lived. You were probably aware that almost all men look at porn, and are attracted to what they see there; did you write that off as not counting because it wasn't in person? It would be such a wonderful world if people didn't hit on those that they knew to be married and love their spouses, wouldn't it? That's the problem with being a moral person; you tend to assume, falsely, that everyone else is using your same moral standards. I am totally blind to flirting, regardless of who is flirting with whom. Understanding about that stuff, and being able to do it at will, would be useful skills to have, but since sex is never my goal, I'm OK without it. You're probably not missing too much, with your limited TV channels. Isn't it funny how often people like us who for whatever reasons have gaps in our social understanding assume that normal people are just kidding or faking? Based on all the articles and books that get written, it seems that "normal" people have plenty of difficulty communicating in relationships, even without the hurdles that we have to overcome. I think that you and your partner are probably communicating better than most people across the board at this point; that's a true blessing! Nope, I did not know most guys look at porn, I have only learned this since we have been in therapy. The therapist asked me what percentage of the public I thought looked at porn and I said 1%. That did of course invoke some rather shocked giggles from both the therapist and my wife. I was perplexed. Both of them told me what is actually going on, and the therapist showed me the statistics. I was confused and said what on earth are people doing that for LOL I can laugh at this now, but honestly when I learned about this (2 years ago) I had no idea that folk can use that stuff the way they do. And although I had known a few guys in my time that had had porn magazines in their lockers and such, I just thought it was a game they played. Something to show off with, it seemed like a juvenile thing to me. I protested that the therapist and my wife must be wrong, there is no way guys actually get turned on by that stuff, I said, a person needs a real person, it did not make sense to me I had occasionally seen mild sex scenes in a few movies but because I never felt attraction I had no idea that other people do. The therapist and my wife explained all kinds of things to me and even now I find it all really hard to comprehend. But apparently it is true Anyway, long story short. My partner does not like that stuff and so over time we have now actually got rid of the TV system altogether. The only thing we watch are carefully selected DVDs. And in the main nowadays the DVDs we are watching are the movies that tell 'our' story. Basically every other day we watch one of them. Often the same one over and over, I can't remember much from films, this is the Aphantasia. (The watching movies that relate to 'our' life is part of our therapy, to compensate for having no minds eye, I think most folk that have read my old posts pretty much have the gist as to why we do this so I won't warble) On the other days if we watch a movie, we watch other movies, but we avoid the graphic sex because my wife does not like it. We also have a filter system on the computer that stops it coming through I am indifferent to it. Not usually repulsed but just can't be bothered with it. I might laugh at the odd funny thing, and if it is embarrasing I do sometimes complain but I can honestly say that I have never had any attraction to it, and I cannot care less that it is not coming in. I think the movies we watch are better. Like you I do still struggle to understand the flirting. But it has improved a bit since we started watching the romantic movies together and my wife has been pointing things out to me. I can see it when it is other people more. I notice it too more now regarding my wife. She works on the markets and so folk talk to her all the time. She has a vibrant personality and folk love chatting with her so I guess this is why I missed it so much in the past. But nowadays I am more aware I do notice it if it is blatent. The last time it happened I said to the guy, this is my wife don't you think she is beautiful. When I said this he smiled and left. I guess there was a twinge of jealousy, but this is only because I saw it with my own eyes. If my wife tells me something like this happened I don't get the same feeling because I cannot imagine it. But anyway after the guy had gone my wife brought it up, and once again I went back into that proud mode saying they will fancy my wife she is beautiful. My wife finds this odd sometimes, since she does get jealous a lot more than I do, and it stays for a while with her too. It is because my wife thought it was the brain hemhorrage that caused all this that she soldiered on with it. But when she realised I had Aphantasia from there we both clicked on to the Demisexual thing. All of the learning we have done from looking at all of these things has helped both of us to see what the other is experiencing. And the more we understand the spectrums involved with all this the happier we both are becoming. The AVEN site more than any other resource has been the biggest help Link to post Share on other sites
Marlow1 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 4 September 2018 at 5:25 PM, anamikanon said: Interesting conversation. Mostly reading. Thought to chime in with an update (on my OP situation): So far, so good. We've had sex a few times. About once or twice a week. I still don't really feel sexually interested in him till we actually start touching. Then it is arousal and the familiar drive home, so to say. Not what I call a "normal sexual relationship" but an improvement over the indifferent fog I was in. It is crystal clear that sex is better than no sex - for both of us, even though he's ace. So this is some form of improvement already. Both of us are noticeably more spontaneous in our behavior with each other. Clearly though, this is a transition phase. For both of us. We are exploring possibilities. Feeling quite thankful that my ace is quite open to sex these days (immediately after discovering asexuality, he was so completely off sex, it was like living with a stranger). Now, he's sort of okay as long as it doesn't get too frequent. And his idea of "too frequent" isn't too terrible either, given how a lot of sexuals here would die happy to be laid once a week. So there is a lot of middle ground possible. Remains to be seen what works for us in terms of a new normal. And of course, whether I start feeling attracted to him again. It can feel distinctly... odd to have sex with someone you're mostly indifferent about till you start getting into it. Please do keep updating. Your shares on this thread have been helpful to both my wife and I. We are so glad you guys are doing so well PS. My wife has asked me to mention that incase anybody realises I sometimes call her my partner and sometimes call her my wife. She is obviously both. But the partner thing was originally to try to protect her identity, me talking about her becoming hypersexual and stuff, but lately she is less bothered about people we know knowing I post here. I personally prefer to call her my wife, because she is my wife, and she said OK then. I do hope this change over has not thrown anybody a curve??? Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 @anamikanon glad to hear things are still going well! I remain pretty happy and calm now with where we are, too. Totally OK with never being attractive to my partner, receiving this as an act of love. Totally OK with directing all the sex, which is better than it ever was before we understood asexuality. I still feel guilt about my attraction being dominant/objectifying and worry about being abusive (he finds it much easier to be passive, but he's not sub). I check in and apologize a lot, maybe too much (better to err that way, I guess). He reassures me it's okay. The other day he reassured me by deliberately encouraging me to become aroused, smh. All in all, I feel very loved, that he lets me do these things out of love -- and that happiness is, I guess, the motivation for him -- it's a good feedback loop. It's nice to have the option of open (or poly, my heart does that), but bah, no time for that. Being happy with what we have also feels like a more stable long term plan. And I'm not sure I could comprehend someone being attracted to me at this point. It's been a long time. I'd probably be fragile/confused/upset about it. I hope things keep getting better for you! Link to post Share on other sites
anamikanon Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Today is not so good. My ace is clearly in an "overdosed on sex" mood and being generally nasty and hostile. I'm feeling rather accused of pressuring him, though I've never done it to the best of my knowledge, and if I did, a simple "no" can stop me in my tracks. Getting a lot about "normativity" and me not understanding his perspective like a color blind person not understanding "blue" no matter how many questions I ask. And I lost it and replied that "normativity" is a nice cover. Everyone understands normal as the understood norm, when the fucking reality is that he does not get sexuality at all, and does not appear interested in understanding it either, since it isn't his need. At least I ask what I don't know, because his comfort matters. He couldn't be less bothered about what I really need, as long as his needs are met - that is why I lost sexual attraction - he doesn't "get" sex and isn't interested in learning beyond cooperating if I want it. He says I can see only my perspective no matter how much I try as though he understands a sexual perspective as well as an asexual one. And downhill from there. Times like this, his communication issues really make it very hard to even like him or want him around at all. He does not cope well with stress and he tends to turn things into blame games and melodramatic accusations at me. Hoping his mood improves fast. Only alternative to hostility is to agree with all he says, no matter how false or absurd. I don't pander to that and I have a tantrum to deal with. Right now wondering why I'm even bothered to keep this thing going. Do I really need an oversize teenager to constantly keep adapting to? Yes, I love him, yes he's good for me, but do I really need another person around 24/7 who thinks the worst of me if he can't handle his own shit? Really hoping this phase blows over before I do something irreversible, like kick him out. I am a firm believer of not being in a relationship where you think the worst of your partner. I know he does it because he can't deal with his own issues, so it is easy to blame me, but that is his headache. If my caring itself is going to be interpreted as intentionally invasive, just because for whatever reason he's feeling sex repulsed, then there is no point wasting time here. He can keep his asexuality and never be so much as looked at by a sexual. I totally support it if that is what he wants. He just doesn't have to do it while squatting in my life and leveling passive aggressive accusations. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Sorry you’re grating on one another, @anamikanon. I hope it passes rather then continuing to worsen. @Marlow1, your story is so fascinating. I don’t have anything worthwhile to add but I really do enjoy reading - and benefit from mulling over - your experiences. Link to post Share on other sites
ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 14 hours ago, Dawning said: Isn't it funny how often people like us who for whatever reasons have gaps in our social understanding assume that normal people are just kidding or faking? On 9/1/2018 at 9:29 AM, Marlow1 said: But, because of this I did not see much smut and stuff on TV and so I thought that kind of thing was rare too. When I did see it because I was not getting attracted to it, I just thought folk were joking, and pretending to be interested in each other etc Oh, how I relate to this issue..... Link to post Share on other sites
anamikanon Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 Whatever it was seems to have passed. Told him if he walks out of my room in anger one more time, he can stay out and ask for permission to return when he is in an explicitly sexual mood, if he can't recognize that I don't force him and he's always free to refuse. If he can't say no to me, that is his headache. He'd better learn fast or learn to duck or I can go back to roomies and he can keep his precious self to himself. My bedroom isn't a tantrum and walk out zone. But he seems fine now. Whatever it was seems to have blown over. I like this man, but I swear some days it is like dealing with a preverbal toddler in the middle of a screaming fit. Zero ability to explain what the problem is and a lot of lashing out. It is like he either doesn't realize/care that it hurts me or he wants to hurt me for whatever is wrong. But he won't say what is wrong. If I wanted to go through that again, I'd adopt. But anyway, he's back from frog to prince. I'm about a dozen steps further away from being completely comfortable with him. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 minute ago, anamikanon said: I swear some days it is like dealing with a preverbal toddler in the middle of a screaming fit. Zero ability to explain what the problem is and a lot of lashing out. It is like he either doesn't realize/care that it hurts me or he wants to hurt me for whatever is wrong. I have this same problem with my partner fairly often. In therapy he said - in the moment - his emotions are so overwhelming that he can’t come up with a coherent answer. Once it blows over, he told the therapist, he often does not remember what was wrong. He seems to care in the abstract that his behavior upsets me (and others), but not to be able to link that to anything that helps him stop doing it. Obv. your partner’s underlying stuff may be completely different... Link to post Share on other sites
anamikanon Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 My guess is that he was feeling sex averse and thinks I am the sole representative of sex and all that is evil about it or something. We weren't even in a sexual moment. We hadn't had sex for several days too. Just the wariness in his mind that it could come up or something. So, instead of saying "no" like an adult, I got blasted with the evils of sexual normativity, quite forgetting that I was sexually fastidious at best and the furthest thing from "flat out sexual game for sex anytime" From way before he'd even heard of asexuality. Heck from before he'd even met me. He was the one who pursued me sexually and I was the one to give him a thousand caveats. And he knew it. But if he's froke about sex, what better than to accuse me of sexual normativity and how it is unjust to aces. Some days I want to bomb pseudo-intellectual conversations being used as attacks. Link to post Share on other sites
anamikanon Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, ryn2 said: He seems to care in the abstract that his behavior upsets me (and others), but not to be able to link that to anything that helps him stop doing it. This sounds familiar... Fact is he has an array of psychological issues in addition to asexuality and sometimes when he's stressed, things just pile up and he has to erupt. What he says is just some .... material to erupt with. But sometimes it can get really depressing to know that when things go wrong, I am going to be alone trying to make sense of them till he returns to normalcy. And I'm going to be hurt and no one is going to give a fuck about that while I do it. He has no sense of larger picture at such times. I do NOT want to be closer to him after what happened. Sexually or otherwise. For him, he'll say sorry and expect to be right where we were and will feel disoriented that we aren't. Link to post Share on other sites
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