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Desiring an ace


anamikanon

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18 hours ago, Dawning said:

A question for the sexuals:

 

Have you done/been doing any of the romance/seduction things with your asexual partners that would normally be done for a sexual partner with a low libido, lower sex drive, or just not in the mood?

 

When you found yourselves losing desire for your asexual partner, did you use any of the methods described in books and articles, or enter therapy, as would normally be done with the loss of desire for a sexual partner?

Yes, my partner and I do use books, and therapy, and romantic films, plus AVEN. Not to learn about sex per se, not about positions, not how to be more attracted, more attractive, nor the usual things that folk speak of when it is libido, or the other things that can often affect the relationship

 

Instead we focus on communication. Our priority is to accept and understand each other's sexuality. And as we grow within this framework the recovery that our relationship needs blossoms and blossoms

 

I have mentioned elsewhere that I have Aphantasia and that I am Demisexual, and how my partner has an extremely high level of Phantasia, and when distressed can become Hypersexual, which in turn leads to further distress for her and so on. We had to solve this puzzle and we eventually did by learning about the fundamental difference of how we both see the world, how each of us is wired and what all this means regarding our love for each other, because we really do love each other!

 

There was much pain following the brain hemhorage. I could no longer recall our relationship, and much more and my Aceness from my past returned. To me it was all just normal and I could not for the life of me understand why my partner was devastated, even saying we might have to split up. What on earth could be the matter with her, I thought, and the more I tried to explain to her that she had nothing to worry about the worse things got. 

 

It it is a very long story, and looking back it is an amazing miracle that we came through all this, but we have

 

One book that springs to mind is the book 'Kosher Lust' by Rabbi Shmuley. There is no way that this book would be right for everybody that is struggling with the difficulties of a mixed relationship. Anybody that spent even a short time here at AVEN would be able to see that folk in these relationships have an array of challenges, and I don't think there is any single resource that can help any of us, not really. But this book by Rabbi Shmuley hit the nail on the head for my partner and I. It was like a switch being turned on. It was amazing, the impact this book had for the two of us

 

Because it is written by a Rabbi a lot of folk might think the book is highly religious, or written only for Jewish folk but the book really is not that religious and only refers to Judaism or the Bible a handful of times. And at the times when it does it is always relevant and respectful. I think so anyway, and to be honest as I recall the book even somebody not familiar with much religion and even not interested with religion could still get something from it. Shmuleys interest is on culture, and perceptions, the influence of the media, incorrect information and ideas many of us have developed in the West. And he basically takes us back in time and illustrates how folk sorted relationship difficulties in the past. And the examples he gives in so many of his pages cover the kind of difficulties my partner and I had

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDnrIagS2c

 

I really don't know if this book could help anybody here but anybody that has read my posts in the past and thinks that they could identify a little with my partners and my story they might enjoy it. This book definitely helped me and my partner get back on track

 

 

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You and your partner have a fascinating, and possibly totally unique, story! Have you ever thought of trying to maybe write an article or something?

 

That sounds like a really interesting book, although it would probably attract more interest on a different forum, LOL!

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40 minutes ago, Dawning said:

You and your partner have a fascinating, and possibly totally unique, story! Have you ever thought of trying to maybe write an article or something?

 

That sounds like a really interesting book, although it would probably attract more interest on a different forum, LOL!

Yes, the title of that book has implications, but believe me it ain't all that lusty, thank goodness, because if it was I would not understand it LOL

 

No, what it is is that rabbi Schmuley in many ways is describing my partner and I, and we both honestly struggled to find anybody that explained relationships in the manner by which how out relationship goes. High and low we searched and it was this frustration that was sending my partner further into the Abyss, as she calls it

 

When she read Rabbi Shmuleys book a peace came over her like I had not seen in many years. I have probably already mentioned here in the past, how gentle and spiritual, and content my partner was before the brain hemhorage.

 

Honestly, she had mentioned to me about her hypersexual stuff before we met, but not in much detail, it did not seem appropriate back then. Then I had the brain hemhorage and it became her job to restore me in every way possible both physical and mental, the stress was horrendous. And we both can laugh at this now but definately not at the time, the garbage that was coming out of my mouth was unbelievable, and especially with the ace thing mixed in. You would not believe half the stuff I was saying

 

As this continued, in the end I do think my partner had some kind of breakdown because that hypersexuality thing set in and there was literally no way to stop it

 

She would say shut up I am getting all those pictures in my mind again. I thought she was crazy, you can't get pictures on your mind, I said!!!

 

Anyway, what a relief to learn about the Aphantasia. Lots of folk on the Aphantasia board said they were Ace, or Demi, or Grey etc. this is when my partner started to see fact that I am wired up different and Rabbi Schmulleys book made me accept wholey the arguement that my partner was putting forward that me not expressing my desirability for her was causing her to have intrusive sexual thoughts. My logic then was I do desire you but I don't have to show it.......I know, I know!!!

 

Recently, we have been sharing what sexual attraction means to each other. My phantasia partner, who not only sees stuff in her mind but hears everything, feels everything, smells, tastes etc, and can chat to herself re everything , and the list goes on. From childhood onwards worked in the entertainment business. She gave this up when she met me, that's a bit of a long story but not entirely to do with me since I would have been happy if she continued. But my point is, not only has she got the tools for all this attraction thing, her experiences from childhood were all rather glamorous, and as she says to me regular, you have to know how to protect yourself when you are in that sort of environment and that makes you more aware of the subtleties of attraction

 

Me as usual, still has very little clue. But I swear I do get sexually attracted to her, but it is in an entirely different way to the way that she is becoming attracted to me

 

Ribbi Shmuley talks about the erotic mind and how many women do experience sexuality on a very high level because their sexual mind is so entwined with the emotional mind

 

I can't say this is across the board, I don't know enough about sex or attraction, and I don't even really know any other women to ask. But what Rabbi Schmuley is describing fits my partner to a tee. But also some of the things he says about guys not understanding the erotic mind in the context of what he is speaking, that is me too

 

I will try to think through how my partner and I are experiencing the attraction so differently but both claiming equality in value. I do think that there might even be other ways for folk to become attracted and I think the experience of it can be different. After seeing what does go on with us, and reading up on it I can see attraction can be subjective, but still valid because both she and me are seeing things very differently

 

Oh yes, the idea of a blog. It might happen, but like you say we are so unique, is there anybody else out there anything even like us . Ha ha

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Update: Getting laid these days 😎. Works wonders for my mood, though I'm a bit skeptical that this is going to last. Also, I still don't feel the sexual attraction for him like I used to, but we're good once we get started.

 

Perhaps it is better like this. To not feel generic sexual attraction but be interested if it is going to happen. No frustration AND getting sex too. This is a good place to be in these days. Let us see.

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Telecaster68
20 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Update: Getting laid these days 😎. Works wonders for my mood, though I'm a bit skeptical that this is going to last. Also, I still don't feel the sexual attraction for him like I used to, but we're good once we get started.

 

Perhaps it is better like this. To not feel generic sexual attraction but be interested if it is going to happen. No frustration AND getting sex too. This is a good place to be in these days. Let us see.

This is the only version of a 'mixed' relationship I can see working: where the asexual is genuinely getting something out of sex because their partner enjoys it, and the sexual is genuinely accepting that their partner is giving something out of love, not actual sexual desire.

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48 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is the only version of a 'mixed' relationship I can see working: where the asexual is genuinely getting something out of sex because their partner enjoys it, and the sexual is genuinely accepting that their partner is giving something out of love, not actual sexual desire.

That certainly seems to be the best model, but I don’t know that it’s the only one that works.  What works is going to vary heavily with how important the sexual finds sex, what acts the partners consider acceptable sex, how the ace feels about engaging in sex, poly v. open v. mono, and so forth.

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Telecaster68
35 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

That certainly seems to be the best model, but I don’t know that it’s the only one that works.  What works is going to vary heavily with how important the sexual finds sex, what acts the partners consider acceptable sex, how the ace feels about engaging in sex, poly v. open v. mono, and so forth.

Yes, it would be different in those edge cases. 

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49 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes, it would be different in those edge cases. 

I’m not confident they are edge cases.  It’s reasonable to assume that, in cases where mixed relationships are working for both parties, no one is coming here to post concerns or ask questions.

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Telecaster68

Only on AVEN are sexuals who aren't bothered about sex and polyamorists not edge cases. 

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Not sure if this is the "only model". Also, too soon to say whether this is a passing phase or a working equation. I think the real thing that has worked for us was what works for others we see here too - we both are absolutely unwavering that this relationship matters enough that both of us will work to ensure that both are happy in it. We are completely committed to this. Good time to say my ace is absolutely my dream partner when it comes to how a relationship should be treasured and enriched. (Today is a good day. Someone remind me when I rant about him. lol)

 

Was just thinking how lucky I am to have found this space, but also important is that I brought anything on my mind here and discussed here, with my ace, tried out viable ideas.... in the sense that it was very active. Every few weeks there is some new issue clearly identified and addressed. Sometimes the time between identifying an issue, asking for help and trying out viable ideas is so short that I've worried people may think I'm bringing up bogus problems, then going "ok, it seems better" after a few replies. But I just feel eager for good ideas that could help us when there is a problem.

 

Just saw @InProgressshare something similar (update from ideas utilized) and realized that I liked that so much because it is what I do too. 

 

I think that is the real "model" that works. Where you keep working at continuous improvement because the relationship matters. 

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Telecaster68
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is the only version of a 'mixed' relationship I can see working: where the asexual is genuinely getting something out of sex because their partner enjoys it, and the sexual is genuinely accepting that their partner is giving something out of love, not actual sexual desire.

I'm curious about how a mixed relationship could succeed long term without those two things being present. 

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20 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Only on AVEN are sexuals who aren't bothered about sex and polyamorists not edge cases. 

You can’t have that and then also complain when sexuals outside AVEN are homogeneously stereotyped as horndogs.

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9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm curious about how a mixed relationship could succeed long term without those two things being present. 

Not curious enough to do more than shoot down suggestions, evidently.

 

That might well be the only model that would work for you, and that’s fine.  Hopefully it’s not a situation you will face again to start with.  What works best for others seems like it has to vary based on indivual preferences, priorities, etc.

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21 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

I think that is the real "model" that works. Where you keep working at continuous improvement because the relationship matters. 

Agreed, and I think this extends to successful, healthy relationships in general (not just mixed ace/sexual ones).

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The numbers I’ve seen for polyamory (in the ethical nonmonogamy sense) in the US have been around 5%.  Not the majority, sure, but hardly an edge case.

 

That would not include people who consider themselves naturally polyamorous but who are in monogamous relationships at the time, or those who are not in relationships, so the actual number is probably higher than 5%.

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18 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm curious about how a mixed relationship could succeed long term without those two things being present. 

Virtual relationships, polyamory, celibacy/QPR, kink, negotiated sex (splitting the discomfort, so to say) - some of the ways I think I've seen some success reported.

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I get what you are saying, @Telecaster68and for us it is true, but I think we are fairly non-typical of an ace-sexual relationship in the sense of my ace being indifferent to the point that sex doesn't stress him either most times. He'll just lose focus or fall asleep or be thinking of something completely irrelevant in his head, etc if he can't be in the mood even to make me happy. Also my complete aversion to less than interested sex. But there is a lot more success reported, so there must be more ways it is arrived at too.

 

If there is anything I've seen as a really common factor, it is good communication and an overall lack of resentment. There are many posters here, you can make out when they talk about their partners - it is never adverserial and they believe their partner is doing their best and they want needs of both met too. That kind of thing. "All stakeholders fully invested in the outcome" kind of situation.

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Telecaster68

Polyamory as a response to one partner discovering their asexuality has to be a lot less than 1pc, just logically. 

 

You can’t have that and then also complain when sexuals outside AVEN are homogeneously stereotyped as horndogs.

 

Actual statistics aren't equivalent to ignorant stereotyping, so, yes, I can. 

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Polyamory as a response to one partner discovering their asexuality has to be a lot less than 1pc, just logically. 

1% of the overall population, sure, but I don’t know that “poly sexual person in a romantic relationship with an ace” is an edge case within mixed ace/sexual marriages.  It actually seems like the model most likely to succeed, for people who are naturally poly, as with natural poly comes the assumption that it’s healthy and natural NOT to expect any one partner to meet all your relationship needs.

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2 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Not sure if this is the "only model". Also, too soon to say whether this is a passing phase or a working equation. I think the real thing that has worked for us was what works for others we see here too - we both are absolutely unwavering that this relationship matters enough that both of us will work to ensure that both are happy in it. We are completely committed to this. Good time to say my ace is absolutely my dream partner when it comes to how a relationship should be treasured and enriched. (Today is a good day. Someone remind me when I rant about him. lol)

 

Was just thinking how lucky I am to have found this space, but also important is that I brought anything on my mind here and discussed here, with my ace, tried out viable ideas.... in the sense that it was very active. Every few weeks there is some new issue clearly identified and addressed. Sometimes the time between identifying an issue, asking for help and trying out viable ideas is so short that I've worried people may think I'm bringing up bogus problems, then going "ok, it seems better" after a few replies. But I just feel eager for good ideas that could help us when there is a problem.

 

Just saw @InProgressshare something similar (update from ideas utilized) and realized that I liked that so much because it is what I do too. 

 

I think that is the real "model" that works. Where you keep working at continuous improvement because the relationship matters. 

I am tempted to warble, but I am not going to. I just want you and your partner to know that your shares here have helped my partner and I see more clearly our own relationship needs, and you have both given us inspiration to soldier on. Thank you!

 

 

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Telecaster68
2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

1% of the overall population, sure, but I don’t know that “poly sexual person in a romantic relationship with an ace” is an edge case within mixed ace/sexual marriages.  It actually seems like the model most likely to succeed, for people who are naturally poly, as with natural poly comes the assumption that it’s healthy and natural NOT to expect any one partner to meet all your relationship needs.

It might be most likely to succeed but that chances of an ace ending up in a relationship with someone who's naturally polygamous are tiny. If 5pc are polygamous, it's 1pc multiplied by 5pc. 0.05%.

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That’s assuming it’s equally likely any given ace will end up in a relationship with every possible other person.  I’m saying - perhaps because they are less likely to be looking for completeness in their individual partner relationships - it’s not unlikely poly sexuals are more likely to wind up with ace partners amongst their poly families than are other sexuals.

 

Even with an even distribution 5% of aces would end up with poly partners.  It would not surprise me - for a wide variety of reasons, some of which will be larger factors going forward - if the distribution is uneven.

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Telecaster68

Let's say I'm 100pc out, and it's 0.1pc - that's still an edge case. 

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Given we don’t know the distribution among aces, we don’t know that.  5% of all aces in mixed relationships could have poly sexual partners, if it’s uniformly distributed.  It could be markedly more (or less) if it’s not.

 

It’s not a large proportion of humankind as a whole but we were talking about mixed relationships, not about humankind as a whole.

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Telecaster68

I don't buy that polyamorants are more likely to get into relationships with aces. There's no particular reason for that. 

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They - at least the ones I know and the ones I speak with online - tend to be more focused on bonding with partners in specific areas, rather than on having to bond in all areas, because they know they can seek what’s missing with one partner with another.

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Telecaster68

Let's say they're ten times as likely as monogamous people, just to get out of this rabbit hole. That's still 0.5pc of relationships. Is that not an edge case? 

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I said I doubted it was an edge case in mixed relationships with asexuals, not across society as a whole.  I understand and agree that, because aces are a small percentage of society as a whole, anything applying to them would be an edge case across all humans.

 

If they’re even just twice (let alone 10x) as likely as monoamorous people to be in  mixed relationships with aces, that would mean they comprise 2/3 of mixed ace/sexual relationships.  Still an edge case across society as a whole but a majority of mixed relationships.

 

I’m not debating your ability to do math.  I’m just talking about a different set - the set of people in mixed ace/sexual relationships - than you are.

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You said (emphasis mine):

10 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is the only version of a 'mixed' relationship I can see working: where the asexual is genuinely getting something out of sex because their partner enjoys it, and the sexual is genuinely accepting that their partner is giving something out of love, not actual sexual desire.

I quoted you and responded:

9 hours ago, ryn2 said:

That certainly seems to be the best model, but I don’t know that it’s the only one that works.  What works is going to vary heavily with how important the sexual finds sex, what acts the partners consider acceptable sex, how the ace feels about engaging in sex, poly v. open v. mono, and so forth.

I thought the fact I quoted your statement about mixed relationships made it clear enough I was talking about mixed relationships between aces and sexuals as well.

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