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Desiring an ace


anamikanon

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My ace has made the occasional noises that he isn't happy about us being totally asexual (not that he actually wants sex) and that because I'm sexual, he'd like our relationship to at least occasionally be sexual. I see some merit to this, because our relationship not being sexual at all definitely makes me see him differently and has overall decreased the intimacy between us.

 

I am sexual and frustrated, BUT.... I simply don't desire my ace unless I actually see him in the mood, which is so rare now, that it isn't worth mentioning. Like happened maybe once or twice since he discovered he was ace. Initially I went with my horniness and asked for him to stimulate me or asked him to offer when he felt okay with it, but that sort of died a natural death. I am not averse to him, just... indifferent. Like it doesn't really mean anything. I trust him and at least so far am not awkward being with him sexually at all (that is unlikely in future too, I'm sexually extremely uninhibited). If he initiates, I'm happy to go along and maybe even climax, but that feels more like casual sex than anything "between" us. It is like with this ace, I'm ace too. Neutral, not averse, but definitely not wanting it.

 

On the rare occasion he is into it, I enjoy it very much, regardless of the end result, but it is so infrequent, that I've stopped holding my breath for it, so to say. It will happen when it does, if it does. It simply isn't frequent enough to stand around hoping. So sometimes, if he is in the mood, I'm completely unprepared to think of him in a sexual manner.

 

At the same time, I am sexually frustrated often. It is just that I don't want sex with him (and I'm not looking for someone else either).

 

I see here many sexual people still wanting sex with their aces and I'm trying to figure out that headspace, so to say, to see if it has potential for us, since my ace is definitely not averse. I tried a time or two to initiate or ask him outright if he'd like to, but didn't go through with it since it seemed pointless.

 

I'm wondering how other sexuals here remain interested in their aces sexually. Also if aces here have tips on something I may not have realized.

 

Note 1: This isn't about getting laid so much as the nature of intimacy between my ace and me. There are a hundred inconveniences but not insurmountable ones if I simply want sex with someone else. That is not an issue.

 

Note 2: I have serious issues with non-consensual sex. I have been on the receiving end of marital rape in a past relationship and the idea of a partner having sex because that is what they are supposed to do is a flat out turn off. In fact, times when he engages in sex even if he isn't interested, I am more traumatized than him - I simply don't want to be that sort of person.

 

Note 3: This isn't something that MUST be accomplished and we are good, but if we are able to do it, I believe it will improve our relationship.

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I am very much in the same boat when it comes to no longer wanting my partner sexually, but still wanting sex. Obviously, extreme doubt that your partner is doing it because they have the same needs and find you sexually alluring is a Huge mood killer. But it also seems that over time, I’ve lost the ability to view my partner sexually at all. Even if she were able to convince me that she was very much interested in sex with me for her own sake, I don’t know that I would be very into it. She’s very attractive, but I guess I’ve rewired the way I see her. I think, even if I could undo that, I wouldn’t. As much as it sucks to lose that desire, it’s way better than the constant rejection that I used to face. I feel like this rewiring has helped my self-esteem and I’ve gone from lonely and self-loathing to lonely and unfulfilled, which isn’t great, but it is loads better. 

 

I understand why your husband wants to do what he thinks will make things better, and my wife wants to do the same, but they neither of them seem able to really understand why that just doesn’t work. It just makes me feel like crap that she wants to fix it and no matter what she does, it will never be enough for me. I feel like she really deserves better. 

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It’s hard for the ace in a relationship that was once sexual to understand why what was fine for years is no longer enough.  I know some of the sexuals say in retrospect that things were always a little “off”... but it certainly seemed to be more than satisfactory at the time.

 

I do completely get how learning something new can change your entire impression of someone in short order, such that you can never see the person the same way again, but it’s still weird for the ace because nothing’s changed for them.  They used to have sex as themselves and they’d be having sex as themselves now, but what used to be received with ardor is now turned away with “sorry, don’t feel that way about you anymore” (which seems to largely be synonymous with “don’t quite love you as much anymore,” at best).

 

In terms of how to “get it back,” I don’t have any tips.  I’ve done it for reasons that would be foreign to you folks all my life but if doing it feels like forcing thing in a way that brings you stress that’s probably not going to help you or your partners.

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Most sexuals I know from here have eventually gone the way of not wanting their partner. It seems a natural progression for most. Though, yeah I can see why the ace might be upset over it... cause its not full love for the sexual without that.

 

Personally, if my partner didnt want that stuff I would lose interest in it all completely. 

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6 minutes ago, Serran said:

Though, yeah I can see why the ace might be upset over it... cause its not full love for the sexual without that.

Yeah, I think it’s that concern that makes it a problem.  If the sexual really didn’t want sex anymore at all - as might happen with medication, illness, or aging - it might not carry a worrying hidden meaning... but in most of the cases we see here that’s not what’s happened.  While we do occasionally see someone post that they love their ace partner so much that they’d gladly forgo sex forever just to be together, that doesn’t seem to be the prevailing sentiment either.

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I am Demisexual, not Ace, and so what I am about to say might not be of any relavence to you at all

 

A few years ago I had a brain hemhorrage and following this a certain level of Aceness returned to my life and my very long term partner suffered the consiquences. It is difficult to explain how we managed to get me back into the Demisexual state, but what I can tell you, following my injury, I could not get myself in a good place until I realised that what my partner was pining for was to feel deeply desired, not the sexual act itself

 

Restoring this was a challenge, and not just because of the brain hemhorrage, I have another brain condition called 'Total Aphantasia', which basically makes it impossible for me to become attracted to another person just by looking at them, or even if I know them well. I require certain conditions to become attracted. My brain is wired differently!!!! And by the way, this condition is not regarded as a disorder, not a disorder, just a different way of thinking!

 

If you want to know more about my story with my partner there is quite a lot of information in my previous posts, and on my profile I have placed some links about Aphantasia. This particular article below shows some of the ways that the Aphantasia mind is different and hints at the lack of attraction associated with this condition

 

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/kwkway/what-its-like-to-instantly-forget-what-friends-and-lovers-looks-like

 

Anyway, I am not saying that your Ace has Aphantasia, most Aces don't!!! What I am saying is some folk in this world are wired up differently and because of this it is difficult for some of us to see the relavence of things like desirability, and other things to do with attraction. Folk with Aphantasia cannot visually fantasize about their partner in their heads and so this limits further our ability to comprehend what sexual folk experience

 

Personally I am attracted to my partner, but because of the Aphantasia, my attraction to her is very different to the way she is attracted to me.

 

I have built a construct in my mind of her, and now when I see her, I can become attracted but, only to her, nobody else. But for my partner the sexual attraction and the sex itself is massively more important than this what I am experiencing. Her desire for me is 'passionate' and she will hanker and hanker for me. And it is not really easy for me to comprehend this, because for me our relationship is perfect and I am constantly content with it, but putting effort in to make her feel 'desired' has helped us a lot

 

When we were on the slipper slopes, we both ended up sour-faced. The attraction issue was always there in the background. Learning about perception and how folk project during attraction helped us both develop all this desire thing better

 

Plus, bringing in a lot, a very lot of 'fun' into the relationship, brought us closer, and then also helped me to behave more desiring towards her, and as all this built up, she became more content and now feels desired. And that is what she wanted. 

 

Feeling desired is more important than the sex for my partner. And me having a condition that makes it difficult to perceive this could have been the end of us, almost definately was, believe me it really was. But we have sorted this. My previous posts do I think shed some light on this

 

I do hope at least something I have said here helps. If only knowing that there are conditions that limit a persons ability to become attracted and understand attraction, if just that helps I would be delighted. It is difficult in just one post like this to explain how we improved things, but we have! And it was me recognising that my partner needs to feel desired that made the difference

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anisotrophic

I worry a bit that @Marlow1's story may be undermining to the goal. I'm concerned it's counterproductive to hold out hope that your partner will discover attraction. @ryn2expressed some incisive frustration in another thread about the shitty nature of this expectation: "pretending to enjoy it is seen as rude and disrespectful, so you can’t fake it but you have to fake it extra-well". I've been feeling the same way. I get a little angry at what seems to be a failure to genuinely accept a partner's asexuality.

I'm going to assume the situation is more like this – (1) you completely accept a partner cannot feel sexual desire/attraction for you, but (2) they are sex-indifferent and (3) express an abstract desire to continue to have sex with you (sexually pleasure you, have sex) – because they want you to have this connection with them, want you to be happy, etc.

The problem is that their lack of attraction kills interest. Totally real.

I think it's worth trying to answer @ryn2's question – what's changed? Well, I've had sex with someone I'm not attracted to. I don't regret it. I hope it made him happy. (NB I also would never tell him that I wasn't attracted when we did that!) And – holy crap – when I realized that was my partner, every time? I would bet most sexuals are quite "sex-averse" when it comes to having sex with someone they're not attracted to. Suddenly they've discovered themselves to be the subject of that. Charity sex, pity sex, grudging sex, reluctant sex, manipulative sex. It feels messed up. Disempowering and/or guilt-ridden with consent worries. Rejection. Unwanted. Pointless. Upsetting.

But I decided I needed to get desire back. I'm sexual, I still have sexual thoughts. I had permission to "stray" but, honestly, no time for it. Perhaps more importantly, I thought hard about whether it was a good idea (even if I could), and I thought: "I need to try harder to be happy with what I have." What I do have a partner who loves me deeply, is willing to pleasure me sexually, he can be physically aroused reasonably easily, and he is amenable to a decent variety of sex acts.

 

First, to think about it abstractly – the process I went through –

I thought about what was making me averse to sex with my partner. And I thought about the various sexual thoughts and fantasies and ideas on the shelves of my mind. I talked a lot with my partner, to understand what was impossible. I worked hard to discard these. I tried to focus on "turn ons" that remained, and might overcome the "turn off" of my partner's lack-of-desire.

And I pushed myself to steer libido towards him and engage in sex. My therapist declared it "exposure therapy". And at first it was awful, and I couldn't finish. After more attempts I could complete it, but was miserable afterwards. But over time, I became less and less upset, and experienced it with increasing pleasure.

And finally – my personal headspace. I think the fantasies I came to use, to overcome my aversion, were fantasies and acts that countered the vulnerability and disempowerment I felt. I was actually able to engage in fantasies I hadn't before – because I had hesitated based on his lack of desire, and I now accepted permission to explore them.

 

Spoiler

Being sexually dominant, requesting and receiving sexual service, using my partner to satisfy my needs, sexually frustrating him, controlling if and how he climaxes.

 

I think I'm less reliant on these fantasies, over time – nor are they the only things that arouse me, but rather, the ones that work well with him. And to be clear, I've done this all with intense caution – lists of "willing/won't" acts, checking in. The thought that I am actually being coercive or abusive is repellent. Indeed, it was one source of post-sex misery (that he'd see me through!). But what I've found is that this actually works well with him. And I think it works around the fact that it's senseless (and imho failing to accept his asexuality) to want him to "make me feel desired" or "express his own desires".

 

That's just us & our own dynamic! I'm sure each couple has their own particular context they navigate, and not all straits are navigable. I tried to describe the process because I hope that's more generally useful. I'm intensely thankful and grateful now, and loving, and feeling lucky and happy about what I have.

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Those are good tips, @anisotropic!

 

The other thing that’s a bit upsetting for the ace partner is that their partner is doing what they’ve done all their life and thought was fine and normal... but their partner is all this is horrible.  This is worse than no sex at all.  This is a twisted mockery of everything I want.  So, when the ace has been trying to put themselves out there and do what’s expected... that’s hideous rapey worse-than-nothing stuff no one should do?

 

I know that’s not what the sexual

partners mean (about their ace partners at all) but it’s still weird to hear in a relationship.

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anisotrophic
9 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

The other thing that’s a bit upsetting for the ace partner is that their partner is doing what they’ve done all their life and thought was fine and normal... but their partner is all this is horrible.

Right! My therapist reminded me that this is the only way my partner *had* sex. It was normal for him.

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anisotrophic

As a follow-up, I asked him if he felt like anything about his own behavior had changed (whether he pushed himself to do stuff, etc). He says he doesn't feel like he changed at all, but for one thing that's been good: "I don't have to try to act attracted anymore". Which makes me happy. 😌

 

P.S. he says "I felt like that too!" when I mentioned the thing @ryn2 just described

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Thank you everyone, the replies here have been amazingly insightful. I will reply where appropriate in a bit, but first an update with a massive insight for me.

 

I also discussed this with my ace. We had a fairly decent, if infrequent, sexual relationship for three years before this hit! And he has never ever been pressured into sex (or anything) - whether we knew he was ace or not. So somewhere BOTH of us were doing things differently.

 

His reply also was insightful. He admitted that in the initial days, he was so relieved that the difficulty and disconnect he had with sex had a rational explanation and that there was nothing "wrong" to fix, that he'd sort of gone overboard with his awareness of asexuality and had simply expected sex to no longer be as important, but combined with my extreme aversion to expecting a disinterested partner to have sex.... he doesn't like where that place has led us. While he was relieved that there was nothing wrong in not wanting sex, me letting him go as sex free as he wanted has led to trauma for me and distancing between us, which he doesn't like and he wishes he had managed to keep a sense of perspective, because he did enjoy being intimate with me, even if sex wasn't a big deal. He definitely wants me to be attracted to him, because he understands that is how love and desire works for me and he wants me to want him, like he wants me.

 

He says I was always the initiator of sex in our relationship and while he doesn't desire sex in that sense, he did enjoy sex with me once we got started and if he wasn't interested, he told me. Now he feels like I'm not going to touch him at all unless he makes it clear that he wants me, but he has no idea how to do that. He has never done it, as in, he has not stopped after finding out he was ace. Me being extra careful to spare him sex he didn't want was what was taking it off the table.

 

He said that he understands how I feel about non-consensual sex and didn't want to pressure me, but according to him our sex was never non-consensual. He asked me if it would work if he gave a blanket consent for sex and revoked it if he wasn't feeling up to it, because he usually is never in the mood for sex, but if I initiate and touch him, he can and does get aroused, even if not every time and that is how we had sex earlier too. If it felt uncomfortable, he would tell me. He also cautioned up front that he was unlikely to want it on a daily basis like I can (we used to run into this before knowing he was ace too), but said that if I any time I was interested was worth a shot.

 

He also explicitly told me that asking him whether he wanted sex was not useful, as he didn't know. Or more like he didn't want it unless aroused, but physical stimulation could arouse him and he could enjoy it, but while not aroused, there was no answer he could give, as he was not able to predict if stimulation could make him want it.

 

So.... we made a fumbling attempt. I didn't feel sexual about him at all, but simply touched him affectionately, and (probably since it has been a loooooong while), to my surprise, he took it ahead from there, and long story short, it worked. Then later, he sat me up and stood before me and turned around "See, I'm fine. You don't have to treat me with kid gloves, I am capable of refusing if I can't cope. I enjoyed this. I am ace, not a rape victim." I literally cried with relief.

 

It was a pretty emotional thing for both of us, for different reasons, but largely relief that the familiar intimacy still worked and we didn't have to stay in this disconnected sort of state. He may not have any particular feelings about sex, but he definitely prefers how I am with him and how we are with each other when we are in a sexual relationship rather than how we are these days.

 

So, it seems like a place to start. No idea whatsoever where we are headed with this, but what I love about my ace is that he's game to find out. Biggest deal is whether I am able to stop perceiving lack of consent in an inability to feel, even though he not just consents, but WANTS to pleasure me. It worked yesterday, it didn't work many times in last half a year. Work in progress.

 

Really hoping it works.

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Telecaster68

Do you think he's actually heavily responsive desire, given he's said he doesn't like not having sex in a relationship, and he gets aroused if you start?

 

23 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

He definitely wants me to be attracted to him

Obviously the niceties of the labels are less relevant than the specifics of your situation, but surely most asexuals would just be relieved by their partner not being attracted to them. They might gracefully accept that their partner is attracted to them, but they'd prefer them not to be. 

 

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21 hours ago, ryn2 said:

It’s hard for the ace in a relationship that was once sexual to understand why what was fine for years is no longer enough.

I hear you.

 

21 hours ago, ryn2 said:

They used to have sex as themselves and they’d be having sex as themselves now, but what used to be received with ardor is now turned away with “sorry, don’t feel that way about you anymore” (which seems to largely be synonymous with “don’t quite love you as much anymore,” at best).

While not an exactly similar situation (my ace went on a super-ace binge after discovering it was fine to not want sex, while I was hoping we could continue as we used to) he does feel rejected now that I'm not interested anymore. I think he needed that sex free space and okayness after finally feeling relieved that asexuality explained so much of what he experienced (or didn't), but it was more a phase than never wanting sex with me again. But that phase triggered my issues around marital rape and I gave him not just the space he needed, but an additional healthy distance so that he could ask if he wanted - except he had never done that and had no idea how to do it.

 

20 hours ago, Serran said:

Most sexuals I know from here have eventually gone the way of not wanting their partner. It seems a natural progression for most. Though, yeah I can see why the ace might be upset over it... cause its not full love for the sexual without that.

We are both upset over it. I started living with him hoping for a partner and fantastic though he is, I'm not really a roomie person. So I can feel totally not interested in sex with him AND sexually frustrated, because the companionship and affection and all sort of make me want a sexual partner and finally it settles on irritation with him, because I can neither fuck him nor myself because he's in the bedroom.

 

17 hours ago, Marlow1 said:

Personally I am attracted to my partner, but because of the Aphantasia, my attraction to her is very different to the way she is attracted to me.

 

...

 

When we were on the slipper slopes, we both ended up sour-faced. The attraction issue was always there in the background. Learning about perception and how folk project during attraction helped us both develop all this desire thing better

 

Plus, bringing in a lot, a very lot of 'fun' into the relationship, brought us closer, and then also helped me to behave more desiring towards her, and as all this built up, she became more content and now feels desired. And that is what she wanted. 

Thank you for your whole post, @Marlow1, but particularly this quoted part. This is very insightful.

 

13 hours ago, anisotropic said:

I'm going to assume the situation is more like this – (1) you completely accept a partner cannot feel sexual desire/attraction for you, but (2) they are sex-indifferent and (3) express an abstract desire to continue to have sex with you (sexually pleasure you, have sex) – because they want you to have this connection with them, want you to be happy, etc.

The problem is that their lack of attraction kills interest. Totally real.

Yes.

 

13 hours ago, anisotropic said:

I would bet most sexuals are quite "sex-averse" when it comes to having sex with someone they're not attracted to. Suddenly they've discovered themselves to be the subject of that. Charity sex, pity sex, grudging sex, reluctant sex, manipulative sex. It feels messed up. Disempowering and/or guilt-ridden with consent worries. Rejection. Unwanted. Pointless. Upsetting.

Yes. This.

 

13 hours ago, anisotropic said:

But I decided I needed to get desire back. I'm sexual, I still have sexual thoughts. I had permission to "stray" but, honestly, no time for it. Perhaps more importantly, I thought hard about whether it was a good idea (even if I could), and I thought: "I need to try harder to be happy with what I have." What I do have a partner who loves me deeply, is willing to pleasure me sexually, he can be physically aroused reasonably easily, and he is amenable to a decent variety of sex acts.

 

First, to think about it abstractly – the process I went through –

I thought about what was making me averse to sex with my partner. And I thought about the various sexual thoughts and fantasies and ideas on the shelves of my mind. I talked a lot with my partner, to understand what was impossible. I worked hard to discard these. I tried to focus on "turn ons" that remained, and might overcome the "turn off" of my partner's lack-of-desire.

And I pushed myself to steer libido towards him and engage in sex. My therapist declared it "exposure therapy". And at first it was awful, and I couldn't finish. After more attempts I could complete it, but was miserable afterwards. But over time, I became less and less upset, and experienced it with increasing pleasure.

This is very helpful. Thanks.

 

Thankfully, our first attempt at "exposure therapy" was optimistic. I don't imagine each time will be like this, but the first experience being encouraging sort of gives us hope to try further.

 

13 hours ago, anisotropic said:

The thought that I am actually being coercive or abusive is repellent. Indeed, it was one source of post-sex misery (that he'd see me through!). But what I've found is that this actually works well with him. And I think it works around the fact that it's senseless (and imho failing to accept his asexuality) to want him to "make me feel desired" or "express his own desires".

Thank you for this perspective. I think this is important for me to learn.

 

 

12 hours ago, ryn2 said:

The other thing that’s a bit upsetting for the ace partner is that their partner is doing what they’ve done all their life and thought was fine and normal... but their partner is all this is horrible.  This is worse than no sex at all.  This is a twisted mockery of everything I want.  So, when the ace has been trying to put themselves out there and do what’s expected... that’s hideous rapey worse-than-nothing stuff no one should do?

Yes. I have been like this and I think it has been unfair and hurtful to my ace who has been trying to find a working middle. I am learning now.

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19 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Do you think he's actually heavily responsive desire, given he's said he doesn't like not having sex in a relationship, and he gets aroused if you start?

Maybe, but we did a sexual arousal type thing and he scored on pretty much nothing other than that type that takes pleasure in pleasuring their partner. (I, on the other hand was high on all fronts - as expected). He has also said that the only really good thing about sex is how he is able to make me feel.

 

On the other hand, him being aroused is fairly unreliable. He is more likely to want to stimulate me than want himself stimulated - consistently - even before we knew he was ace.

 

But it is a thought worth exploring. He may at least partially be responsive desire - at least the times he responds. lol.

 

Quote

Obviously the niceties of the labels are less relevant than the specifics of your situation, but surely most asexuals would just be relieved by their partner not being attracted to them. They might gracefully accept that their partner is attracted to them, but they'd prefer them not to be. 

Can't say about other aces, but mine understands that my attraction to him doesn't exactly have a separate slot for sex, the way he sees sex as a separate activity from the other affection we share. And he sees the overall negative impact of us not being sexual, because I can't dial down the sex separately from the other spontaneous acts of physical closeness. And he definitely knows how I am when we are sexual and obviously the whole way I am with him changes and he wants the version that wants him over one that is okay with him, so to say. 

 

In the sense he doesn't want sex for himself, but he wants me how I am when I am in a sexual relationship and not how I am in a QPR. He'd take it if I could be the same without wanting sex, but that doesn't happen, which is how we are trying to find our way back to how we used to be.

 

He isn't sex averse and is capable of enjoying the sensations, so he doesn't see it as a violation or anything and if that is all it takes to have me coming at him with full wattage instead of the cautious way I am now, he definitely wants it.

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@Telecaster68the responsive desire thing does hold some merit though, because of how he described - that I initiate, how he doesn't know how he will feel till I actually try to stimulate him, etc. So it may be something to try. It also explains why me giving him sexual space torpedoed our relationship totally, even though his preference is that we are at least occasionally sexual. Without me initiating, he never wants it. If he feels responsive desire, me giving him space probably finished our sexual relationship - and this can be reversed if I make an effort.

 

Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Obviously the niceties of the labels are less relevant than the specifics of your situation, but surely most asexuals would just be relieved by their partner not being attracted to them. They might gracefully accept that their partner is attracted to them, but they'd prefer them not to be. 

 

I don’t think it’s that simple.  People want to feel like their partners love them.  If love to a sexual parter means “love and desire,” and without desire the sexual partner falls out of love... the ace partner doesn’t want the outcome.

 

@anamikanon that sounds like a really good conversation.

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1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

Can't say about other aces, but mine understands that my attraction to him doesn't exactly have a separate slot for sex, the way he sees sex as a separate activity from the other affection we share. And he sees the overall negative impact of us not being sexual, because I can't dial down the sex separately from the other spontaneous acts of physical closeness. And he definitely knows how I am when we are sexual and obviously the whole way I am with him changes and he wants the version that wants him over one that is okay with him, so to say. 

 

In the sense he doesn't want sex for himself, but he wants me how I am when I am in a sexual relationship and not how I am in a QPR. He'd take it if I could be the same without wanting sex, but that doesn't happen, which is how we are trying to find our way back to how we used to be.

 

He isn't sex averse and is capable of enjoying the sensations, so he doesn't see it as a violation or anything and if that is all it takes to have me coming at him with full wattage instead of the cautious way I am now, he definitely wants it.

*nods*

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Here is a poll from the AVEN site

 

Not all folk on the Asexual Spectrum have Aphantasia. But quit a few folk that have Aphantasia do say they believe that they are on the Asexual Spectrum. 

 

Finding out about this totally changed the direction of our relationship. I now appreciate what it is like for my partner to be able to experience all of her senses in her mind and she feels a tonne better knowing that I am wired up so much different to her. And understanding this has enabled us to change things around here

 

I am not going to pester you any more about all this here. You have not even said that your partner could have Aphantasia but if you ever want to send me a PM please feel free to do so

 

If it turns out that your partner does not have any form of Aphantasia, nonetheless will you remember there are folk wired up differently to folk that have the visual skills, and other senses in the mind. I love my sexual partner, she is a gem. The most beautiful creature in all the world to me. And long suffering too. But learning about the Total Aphantasia that I have has transformed our lives. It can be OK to be different. It takes all sorts to make a world

 

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anisotrophic

@anamikanon, it's great to hear about the positive development! I'm so happy for you. Fingers crossed that things keep improving; this sounds like an important turning point. 🎉

 

My partner was curious about the thread and browsed it briefly. He commented that your partner sounds a lot like him – in abstract motivations for sex and indifference around sex itself (although maybe less physically responsive).

 

He also said he thinks there might be confusion between responsive desire and responsive arousal.

 

He would characterize responsive desire would seem to describe... something more emotional, desire in response to a mood or suggestion. Candles and romantic music. And responsive arousal is, um, more crude – physical arousal in response to a physical stimulus. Hand on genitals.

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33 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

He also said he thinks there might be confusion between responsive desire and responsive arousal.

 

He would characterize responsive desire would seem to describe... something more emotional, desire in response to a mood or suggestion. Candles and romantic music. And responsive arousal is, um, more crude – physical arousal in response to a physical stimulus. Hand on genitals.

I was thinking this as well, but struggling with wording.

 

To me responsive desire is “I do desire sex with specifically you and only you once we enter into a setting [could be the sexual partner initiating what will become sexual contact, could be set of sensual cues, etc.] that awakens it in me.”

 

I don’t know that “I want to get off now that my body is being stimulated, and you’re handy and bonus I know you like it too,” which might be more what some of the ace partners are describing, would really qualify.

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19 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

 

@anamikanon that sounds like a really good conversation.

Yep. We rock conversations. Given the number of mismatches and challenges between us, our relationship wouldn't have survived without this one strength we have. We can discuss any problem and find a way over/under/around/through or have support and compassion for each other without finding middle ground in an ongoing effort.

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4 hours ago, anisotropic said:

@anamikanonHe also said he thinks there might be confusion between responsive desire and responsive arousal.

 

He would characterize responsive desire would seem to describe... something more emotional, desire in response to a mood or suggestion. Candles and romantic music. And responsive arousal is, um, more crude – physical arousal in response to a physical stimulus. Hand on genitals.

Yeah. From this, it actually sounds like I have responsive desire and he has responsive arousal. In the sense that if I think he doesn't want me, I switch off too and if I stimulate him, sometimes he can be aroused too though not always/often.

 

Particularly hard for me is that he seemed to have forgotten last night (probably because it has been a while), but he can get aroused from physical stimulation and NOT like it if his mind isn't in the space, so it isn't as simple as me trying to arouse him any time I want sex. He finds it unpleasant to be aroused sometimes (which is why he prefers not to be touched usually too). So I guess we'll have to figure out when it is ok to try and arouse him and when it isn't. One step at a time.

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17 hours ago, Marlow1 said:

If it turns out that your partner does not have any form of Aphantasia, nonetheless will you remember there are folk wired up differently to folk that have the visual skills, and other senses in the mind. I love my sexual partner, she is a gem. The most beautiful creature in all the world to me. And long suffering too. But learning about the Total Aphantasia that I have has transformed our lives. It can be OK to be different. It takes all sorts to make a world

 

I don't think my ace has Aphantasia. He does have several other challenges that limit his perceptions though and your insights are still gold.

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A question for the sexuals:

 

Have you done/been doing any of the romance/seduction things with your asexual partners that would normally be done for a sexual partner with a low libido, lower sex drive, or just not in the mood?

 

When you found yourselves losing desire for your asexual partner, did you use any of the methods described in books and articles, or enter therapy, as would normally be done with the loss of desire for a sexual partner?

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Telecaster68

Yes, initially, because when your partner stops wanting sex (and nobody's mentioned asexuality), it's just far more likely that those usual things will address the cause.

 

For many sexual partners, it's only when those things have no effect that we get to considering asexuality as a factor.

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Please forgive my confusion; the only perspective I have is the ace one. Was your partner also aromatic and asensual? Wouldn't romance and seduction create a receptive emotional state even in an asexual person otherwise, unless they are sex-averse? Is it possible that just their being asexual isn't the complete solution to the equation?

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9 hours ago, Dawning said:

A question for the sexuals:

 

Have you done/been doing any of the romance/seduction things with your asexual partners that would normally be done for a sexual partner with a low libido, lower sex drive, or just not in the mood?

Yes. In case you were curious, they can work too - at least with my ace who has a libido, even if very low.

 

My view is that people are people and I don't really see sexuality and asexuality as separte things. More like a spectrum. Under the right conditions, aces can feel profoundly, even if not as frequently as sexuals, under the wrong conditions, sexuals want to have nothing to do with sex. Whether we want sex or not in any given moment is a combination of many things. Some of them permanent, others can be influenced.

 

Quote

 

When you found yourselves losing desire for your asexual partner, did you use any of the methods described in books and articles, or enter therapy, as would normally be done with the loss of desire for a sexual partner?

Not book ideas or therapy, but I really use a lot of ideas. I come up with them, read in places like AVEN, ask people for advice, discuss with him and ask him for ideas... We talk a lot, try to improve on whatever is not working and so on. I am not one to let problems fester. Nor is he, though it is rare for him to take the initiative in addressing sexual problems.

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16 minutes ago, Dawning said:

Please forgive my confusion; the only perspective I have is the ace one. Was your partner also aromatic and asensual? Wouldn't romance and seduction create a receptive emotional state even in an asexual person otherwise, unless they are sex-averse?

At least in our case, it depends. My ace doesn't necessarily see sex as intimacy. More like an activity that is separate from intimacy that we do together. Like going on a walk or watching a film together.... having sex together. In the sense that it takes extra effort for him and often the most natural time for sex - bed time - when closeness and affection sort of result in mutual desire and arousal for a sexual, for him it can seem like taking on another task at the end of a tiring day. Like getting into bed tired, but still not free to rest kind of a thing.

 

Also, him feeling romantic and all seduced doesn't necessarily mean sex. It can often just be a lot of kisses, holding close, affectionate rubbing, etc.

 

Other times, if he isn't too tired and is mentally not stressed, he can get aroused from it and enjoy the sex too. He isn't averse at all.

 

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Is it possible that just their being asexual isn't the complete solution to the equation?

I don't think there can be a complete solution to a sexual equation - even among two sexuals with similar libido. Sooner or later, rarely or frequently, there will be the natural result of two autonomous people not having identical desires in a moment. It is okay. As long as you can live with the larger picture, I think no point fussing the details too much.

 

For us, it helps to see each sexual initiation/encounter independently. No pattern, no larger equation. This time it worked, or didn't. This time he agreed or refused. And so on. It works better than overwhelming either of us of what "always" happens (and also somewhat scripting future dysfunction). So even he refuses every time, each time is an individual instance and we avoid reading patterns into that. Also, if he agrees, or agrees two nights in a row, not seeing a pattern stops him from feeling obliged to live up to his promise on the third and prevents me from expecting sex and feeling denied all over again.

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7 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Like getting into bed tired, but still not free to rest kind of a thing.

Yes!!  If my partner and I ever do reach a compromise, I’ve been thinking about whether or not there might be other workable times.

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