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I don't know where to go... (LTR, blame, shame, sexuality changes)


MisterNowhere

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MisterNowhere

Hi everyone,

 

So I'm a first time poster, but I have lurked the website for the past year. I've been learning a lot about understanding and working with my ace partner. But I got thrown a curve-ball this week that has led me to seek some more specific help (or maybe just support, I don't really know if this can be helped).

 

I have been in a blissful relationship for almost two years with my ace partner, M. When we initially started dating, M did not fully see himself as asexual. Overtime, through lots of talks and exploration, he came to terms with being an asexual who is not sex repulsed and has a low(ish) libido. I felt comfortable with this change, and we agreed to work on finding ways to make our sex life satisfying and comfortable for the both of us. I felt like we achieved this, and we both seemed to be very happy. I initiated a lot of check-ins with M to make sure he felt comfortable (he is rather shy, and is frequently nervous about talking about intimate relationship issues), and I typically got positive feedback. We had a few issues that popped up but we were able to work through them. Our relationship had been going extremely well, and we started having talks about marriage. It got to the point where I planned to propose this fall, and we were going to go ring shopping in the next two months.

 

Fast forward to this week. On Monday, M told me that he actually feels sex repulsed and wants to move towards a nearly sexless relationship (sex/kink every few months). This new information has completely shattered my/our(?) expectations for the relationship. I just don't know what to do. We have been talking back and forth about this change/evolution in his sexuality but I don't feel like we are getting anywhere. He's not sure if he even wants to maintain a sexual relationship with me, and can't give me any insight into what our changed relationship might look like. M wants to take things "day by day" and I can kind of live with that, but we were in the middle of engagement plans and combining households (i.e. moving in together; planing for relocation when I start grad school). I feel like those are massive questions that I want addressed sooner rather than later. I don't know if this is a relationship I can stay in anymore, and M is not being forthcoming with the information I need to make that decision. (And I am okay if he does not have any answers yet, but I need some kind of discussion about the future). I really really want to do everything I can to make our relationship work, but I feel like M is not giving me the information I need to establish/express my own boundaries, needs, and concerns. Maybe I'm not asking M for the right information? Or I'm asking in a way that doesn't make him comfortable enough to share?

 

I just have no idea what to do or where to go. I feel like my relationship is failing right before my eyes and I have no idea how to intervene. I blame myself for this happening. Maybe I didn't invest enough time in trying to understand M's sexuality? Maybe he's just been sucking it up and begrudgingly having sex with me this whole time and I was too stupid to notice? I also blame myself because I feel like I would have the perfect relationship if I did not have these icky sexual desires. If I was different and did not want sex, me and M wouldn't be having these conversations. I feel ashamed because I feel like I broke our relationship by asking for sex. I wish I could change my sexuality so I could stop experiencing sexual interest in him, but I have been rather unsuccessful at that. I don't really know if I can change my sexuality but I would like to. I feel disgusted with myself that I value having a sexual relationship with M so highly. I just can't see myself never having sex again, or only having some kind of pity sex once/twice a year. I'm ashamed that I think like this. I feel like I'm playing some kind of victim.

 

Um, that all was kind of rambly but I feel like the information could be useful. I hope it was not whiny. I could just really use some guidance. This is the fifth major (negative) life change for me in three years, and I think its pushing me to my limit. I just want to know if there is anyway I can save my relationship. It would be nice to hear from people in mixed orientation relationships to see how they make it work. I ordered a copy of I Fell in Love with an Asexual, which has good reviews, and I'm hoping that might give me some ideas/hope too. I don't know. I hope this was not too unclear to read.

 

I appreciate everyone who stopped to read.

 

 

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This kind of thing is so hard for all parties involved, and the outcome may not be what anyone was hoping for.

 

Firstly, don't feel bad for wanting sex. Sexual compatibility is so important in a relationship, and that means someone who can approximate your level of desire. People tear themselves up over relationships where everything is perfect except for sex, because society often considers you shallow if sex is important to you. But sex is important, and relationships with huge imbalances in desire are asking for resentment.

 

17 minutes ago, MisterNowhere said:

we were in the middle of engagement plans and combining households (i.e. moving in together; planing for relocation when I start grad school). I feel like those are massive questions that I want addressed sooner rather than later.

This is very wise on your part. Slow waaay down and don't move in with each other until you've settled this.

 

18 minutes ago, MisterNowhere said:

He's not sure if he even wants to maintain a sexual relationship with me, and can't give me any insight into what our changed relationship might look like.

 

23 minutes ago, MisterNowhere said:

Maybe he's just been sucking it up and begrudgingly having sex with me this whole time and I was too stupid to notice?

I'm going to come at you from the perspective of an asexual person here, and it's not going to pretty, so bear with me.

 

I just got out of a near perfect relationship with a man I adored. We were highly compatible in every way, but I didn't know I was asexual at the time and didn't understand why I wasn't enthused about sex. The worst part, in fact, was that I pretended to be enthused, because I enjoyed seeing him happy and responsive. I didn't mind giving him pleasure, but he would feel bad if he didn't reciprocate, and it started to wear on me. When we had sex I would respond and encourage him, etc., but inside I felt detached and I just counted off the seconds until we were done.

 

I started making excuses to not have sex, because I got a much greater sense of intimacy from just cuddling. In time, I started dreading going to see him, because I knew we would "have" to have sex. It was killing me because we were so good for each other otherwise, we were each other's best friend. But sex had never been, and was never going to be, something I enjoyed.

 

I broke up with him, in the end, because he deserved better. He needs to go find somebody that he's compatible with in every way. He wasn't stupid, and you're not stupid. I, and probably your boyfriend, thought we could handle a sexual relationship, and we discovered that the mental toll was greater than we had thought.

 

 

I'm sorry I had to dump that on you. Now, whereas I ended the relationship, your boyfriend took a big step and asked to put sex on pause. You wanted to know if there was a way to save your relationship, and... well, it's possible. But your relationship will start to look very different. Sex may happen one or twice a month, or once every three months, or only on special occasions, or not at all. Now that he's discussed his feelings with you, if you try to initiate sex more often, he may feel pressured or unhappy.

 

Remember, you're not in the wrong here. Neither of you is wrong, you're just mismatched. Asexual/allosexual relationships are such terribly hard work, and you have to decide whether you can handle minimal sex for the rest of your life.

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anisotrophic

Please don't be ashamed about the pain you feel! I can only try to imagine how I'd feel if my partner came out as sex repulsed.

You did not break the relationship. It sounds like you did everything you could to be careful and respectful and caring. You're not selfish. It's not wrong to be attracted to your partner! But if the two of you aren't both able to experience your attraction – and his own absence – without guilt or pain or suffering, that's a horrible situation.

 

Your partner's way of reciprocating may involve confronting that he couldn't sustain whatever approach he was taking – and that he owes it to you to say it now, before you were going to take such a big step together. I think sometimes life and love must be about knowing that our action is going to hurt someone we care about, but that it must be taken because we care – because avoiding it would create even greater pain.

PS – I haven't read that book, just the Decker and Bogaert books. As someone that's androphilic and historically female, I think I was suspicious that it would be limited by a heterosexual cismale narrative, so I'm interested in hearing about how it reads for you!

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MisterNowhere

@Grimalkin and @anisotropic,

 

I appreciate all of your super helpful words; thank you so much for replying to me. It definitely helped me calm down so that I could have productive talks with M. A lot of the hurt we had both been feeling has been soothed, which is an incredible relief for me.  Me and M have been talking so much and it is a bit of a blur haha.

 

We've talked a lot about the role and meaning of sex in our relationship. M has been receptive and supportive of me talking about my desires for sex, and the feelings I have around my sexuality. He is trying really hard to understand my point of view and wants to work on ways to compromise with/accommodate me. I'm also trying to bolster my own confidence in/valuing of my sexuality. I rarely treat my interest in sex as something that matters, so I feel like that played a role in getting me in this place. I've never been assertive with M that sex is something I value in our relationship; I normally treat sex as a guilty indulgence I crave. M has also been more forthcoming with talking about the evolution of his sexuality. It seems we had a miscommunication, and he meant more that sometimes he is sex-repulsed, while other times he is interested and comfortable with sex (I am worried he might be backtracking on this but...). Mainly he wants to alter the way we talk about and have sex so that its more comfortable for him more often.

 

Overall I'm feeling a lot better, and our conversations have been a lot more helpful. I'm feeling hopeful, and pretty happy. We pumped the breaks a little on our engagement plans, and have pushed plans back for now which is disappointing but necessary.

 

My book arrived and I am really loving it. It has a bit of a workbook feel, and my partner wants to go through it with me which is exciting. It tries really hard to have an inclusive narrative which I like (since we're an allo/ace homoromantic trans couple haha). It has a big section on creating healthy and satisfying intimate compromises, which uses neutral language. I think I will post a write up abut the book when I have read more because it is a new book (came out Feb. 2018) and it covers a lot of topics I haven't seen discussed a lot before. It also has a really affirming narrative that avoids blaming anyone which I like.

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On 8/2/2018 at 11:48 PM, MisterNowhere said:

Overtime, through lots of talks and exploration, he came to terms with being an asexual who is not sex repulsed and has a low(ish) libido. I felt comfortable with this change, and we agreed to work on finding ways to make our sex life satisfying and comfortable for the both of us. I felt like we achieved this, and we both seemed to be very happy. I initiated a lot of check-ins with M to make sure he felt comfortable (he is rather shy, and is frequently nervous about talking about intimate relationship issues), and I typically got positive feedback. We had a few issues that popped up but we were able to work through them. Our relationship had been going extremely well, and we started having talks about marriage. It got to the point where I planned to propose this fall, and we were going to go ring shopping in the next two months.

 

Fast forward to this week. On Monday, M told me that he actually feels sex repulsed and wants to move towards a nearly sexless relationship (sex/kink every few months). This new information has completely shattered my/our(?) expectations for the relationship. I just don't know what to do. We have been talking back and forth about this change/evolution in his sexuality but I don't feel like we are getting anywhere. He's not sure if he even wants to maintain a sexual relationship with me, and can't give me any insight into what our changed relationship might look like.

I call this the "next level of the rabbit hole". It is something I've seen with many "coming out of the closet" type transitions. Familial, social, professional, sexual...

 

I have a theory that this happens because we take a while to process things, refine our thoughts and identify what we really want. Also it takes some experience to give us data from experiencing them on what we like and what we don't, what we can live with and what we can't take. So, in a lot of ways, the first revelation is the beginning of a transition that will go on for quite some time and it will have phases that are easier and harder than others.

 

Initially, there is the simple relief of saying what is on your mind and still being accepted. Then comes the lived experience of openly living as per stated. With that comes greater awareness of preferences, leading to the next talk, and so on. So, for us, what it seems like "they came out and we accepted and now they are changing the rules on us" is for them an ongoing process of self discovery. What earlier used to be "not interested, but doing sex for her" is now "She knows I'm not interested, but still wants sex anyway, do I really want to do this? Does what I want not matter?" And so on. So then a flat out extreme reaction "I'll give you sex, but when I say so, and forget about it being frequent". Then they may calm and realize what they feel for you also means that they WANT to make you happy and have something else they suggest. And so on.

 

What you negotiate will keep getting refined till you can't tweak it further and settle or decide that you can't live with that status.

 

On 8/2/2018 at 11:48 PM, MisterNowhere said:

M wants to take things "day by day" and I can kind of live with that, but we were in the middle of engagement plans and combining households (i.e. moving in together; planing for relocation when I start grad school). I feel like those are massive questions that I want addressed sooner rather than later. I don't know if this is a relationship I can stay in anymore, and M is not being forthcoming with the information I need to make that decision.

This is indeed a sensible priority.

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This is a difficult situation. 

For many sexuals, a good sex life is VITAL to a happy relationship. For many asexuals, sex can be intolerable. In many cases this incompatibility is just too large to bridge, no matter how wonderful everything else is. 

 

OP, I think you need to think carefully and be honest with yourself about how important sex is to you. Can you be happy without a *good* sex life? Even if your partner is willing to sometimes have sex, it is unlikely to be the sort of enthusiastic sex that you likely want.

 

Your partner may be trying to soften the blow, but if he has gotten this far telling you, its likely that he really doesn't want sex.  You can try to find out what he is happy with, but I expect it will be far less than you want.

 

Are you and he willing to consider an open relationship?  (this doesn't work for most people, but its possible it would  work for you).

 

Otherwise:  Leave, Cheat, Live like a Nun.   Its a really miserable set of choices.

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This is a good time to remind that an engagement is a trial period for getting married and can be broken. By this, I mean that there is a lot of chaos going on in your intimate life right now, and you have a choice on whether to go public with differences or not. But I would say hold on before you do irreversible things like combining households or finances and so on.

 

In my personal experience with my ace as well as several stories mentioned here, what little sex there is can die immediately when the ace is faced with the prospect of it being a permanent and routine feature of home life. And then you will be stuck living with a commitment that feels intolerable.

 

In my case, we had a long distance relationship with even some good sex for 3 years before he moved in. Immediately on moving, no sex for two weeks. Zero. Note, this was a crash from having sex the very night he arrived for years by then. Then we had some halfhearted sex once. Then nothing for another few weeks. Then he realized he was ace. Since then, it was erratic. He made efforts to offer me sexual pleasure or initiated sex a few times himself if he remembered, but he kept forgetting (he says) or simply not wanting to do it. A point came that I lost interest in him sexually altogether. I've had enough sexual relationships in life to be eager to have sex with someone who needs to be reminded and then is at best half hearted and etc. The lived reality of the differences can be brutal. I was fully expecting our sex life to improve without worrying about limited time and hurried visits. Instead, it torpedoed totally.

 

Others here have described hot engagements with the sex dying out within weeks of marriage or moving in.

 

It makes sense, because a fake interest in sex can be sustained for short periods when meeting a lover, but when living with a lover, the story is different entirely.

 

I'd recommend a few months of living together 24/7 if possible to see if you two are able to cope with the lived reality. You can always simply lock up your home for a few months and visit him rather than combine households straight off the bat. Or something.

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anisotrophic

Everyone is so gloooomy!  Sexual intimacy might still happen, I mean, sure it's a tall order, but I guess...

 

an allo has got to be chill about not being attractive to the one they love, likely always initiating, maybe okay with a um smaller menu, and being resigned to an indefinite and deep asymmetry in desire....

 

an ace must find it rewarding enough to respond positively to requests & be caring & find it a positive enough experience to keep doing that...

 

These things can be true?

 

But it would seem to take two: both partners okay with such things? That's often not possible.

 

I should get that book, I'm curious now...

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1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

Everyone is so gloooomy!  Sexual intimacy might still happen, I mean, sure it's a tall order, but I guess...

It is hard to imagine how a sex repulsed person can sustain a relationship with a sexual. It isn't just about the act of sex, it is a loving act between two people. There is no joy in getting physically intimate with someone repulsed by it. Heck, it is hard enough when someone is disinterested or indifferent.

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anisotrophic
7 hours ago, anamikanon said:

It is hard to imagine how a sex repulsed person can sustain a relationship with a sexual. 

Oh, agreed. Hence all the caveats.

 

But if his partner is at times "interested and comfortable" then there's a bit more hope. It's hard for us to know from here how true that is, or if his partner's unconsciously forcing it. Hell it's probably hard for them to know, but they're trying to work that out, I think that's wonderful. 🙂

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MisterNowhere

I agree with you @anisotropic! It was very gloomy when I came back to check this post. However, I do appreciate hearing all of the different perspectives. Thankfully though, my relationship does not seem to be heading towards that level of dysfunction because I am comfortable with a lot of the things you mentioned, and M likes looking for ways to find satisfaction in sex.

 

On 8/7/2018 at 6:29 AM, anamikanon said:

I have a theory that this happens because we take a while to process things, refine our thoughts and identify what we really want. Also it takes some experience to give us data from experiencing them on what we like and what we don't, what we can live with and what we can't take. So, in a lot of ways, the first revelation is the beginning of a transition that will go on for quite some time and it will have phases that are easier and harder than others.

I definitely feel this. I learn a little bit more about M and his expectations/feelings/needs everyday. For me, our initial conversation was the worst by far because he was very panicky and things seemed worse than they actually were. In a way, our first conversation was presented as the worst case scenario for how M was feeling about sex. Since then when we have modified some things and come up with some better ways to have sexual intimacy. I'm honestly excited for the next stage of his process because it feels wonderful to know that he is growing as a person and developing greater comfort in his sexuality. I only really worry about how i can/will fit into that evolution while still caring for myself. My hard limit in terms of what works for me is honestly pretty low, but with M's new feelings about sex he got really close to my limit.

 

On 8/7/2018 at 4:18 PM, uhtred said:

OP, I think you need to think carefully and be honest with yourself about how important sex is to you. Can you be happy without a *good* sex life? Even if your partner is willing to sometimes have sex, it is unlikely to be the sort of enthusiastic sex that you likely want.

 

Your partner may be trying to soften the blow, but if he has gotten this far telling you, its likely that he really doesn't want sex.  You can try to find out what he is happy with, but I expect it will be far less than you want.

I'm definitely working on understanding how to be honest and firm with my needs. A lot of the earlier comments helped me realize I was neglecting that, and I feel like that probably contributed to the emotional blowout that came with M and I's first conversation. (This might be TMI, but I worry I may have poorly represented my relationship and don't want to depict M as cold and unloving) just to be clear, I feel like I have a great sex life and that M is enthusiastic during activities he is comfortable with. I think our relationship can work because of some things I have come to understand. I accepted a long time ago that M is not sexually attracted to me, and that he views/values sex differently than me. Those parts really don't bother me because he is very affectionate, initiates activity, and makes me feel loved and attractive in other ways. The issue for me really arose in possible reductions in frequency (we are closeish to my minimum to feel satisfied), and losing some of the other forms of physical intimacy we have (like kink, and behaviors most allos label as foreplay).

 

I feel like all couples, regardless of orientation, have intimacy hurdles and occasionally tell half-truths when insecurity and fear occur. 'I think M telling me about this evolution in his sexuality is a positive step. I see it as him trusting me, and being interested in/willing to pursue new avenues to create a physical relationship that is more satisfying for both of us. Otherwise, he probably would have just left me. I'm willing to wait and see how our relationship evolves, albeit with reduced long-term expectations. I think giving M anything less is a devaluing and betrayal of what he has given me me in our relationship.

 

On 8/8/2018 at 3:01 AM, anamikanon said:

It is hard to imagine how a sex repulsed person can sustain a relationship with a sexual. It isn't just about the act of sex, it is a loving act between two people. There is no joy in getting physically intimate with someone repulsed by it. Heck, it is hard enough when someone is disinterested or indifferent.

I do agree it is hard to imagine but its been working out with some tweaking haha. I think its important to note that there are different levels/kinds of sex repulsion. As I talk more and more with M, the kind of repulsion he experiences is more situational and tied to language and specific sensations. These seem like these we can work on addressing to find mutual satisfaction. Also, for me I really don't mind indifference if I can get enthusiasm during other acts of intimacy. I've had to spend a lot of time exploring my own sexuality, and finding out what I really need. My own exploration has been crucial to success of our relationship, but along the way I lost respect/confidence/value in how sex fit within my needs. I really let it get pushed to the side, and I believe that fueled a lot of the stress and frustration I have felt.

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I totally get the idea of repulsion towards situations and terms/language.  Certain types of talk about/before/during sex really turn me off (to the speaker, not just the act), and they’re actually sweeter, “mushier” things a lot of people probably find nice and comforting.  When someone is ace/grey/minimally sexual to start with, there is a lot less wiggle room for turn-offs than there might be for someone more sexual.

 

It sounds like you and M are doing a great job working your way through this so far.

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And I’m sure you know this, but do keep in mind everyone is speaking from their own experience.  Those whose own relationships are/have been very painful or dissatisfying are doing what they wish someone had done for them by trying to warn you off sooner rather than later. Those who’ve found more workable solutions are more positive.  Those whose mixed relationships are working really well for both parties probably - for the most part - aren’t here at all.  :)

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 8/5/2018 at 2:06 PM, MisterNowhere said:

I think I will post a write up abut the book when I have read more because it is a new book (came out Feb. 2018) and it covers a lot of topics I haven't seen discussed a lot before. It also has a really affirming narrative that avoids blaming anyone which I like.

I'm not on the forums that often, partially because I'm still catching up in other areas of life after writing the book you mentioned above. However, I want to let you know that although each experience is unique, I can relate to much of what you're saying.
 
I am glad that you've both found the courage to address these topics candidly before taking the next step of marriage.

 

Also, it's very heartwarming to hear when the book has helped someone else. Your words help it to reach others. The inclusiveness piece is confirming to hear about.
 
When you do a write up, I'll be especially curious to hear how it supported you in examining some of the shame and blame dynamics you mention above. For me, those are two pretty big things that still rear their heads from time to time. I appreciate how others on this thread have shared about that piece, too.
 
Whatever form your current relationship ultimately takes, I hope you continue to find deeper and more nourishing connection--both with yourself and with partner(s).
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