Jump to content

Are we a self-destructive culture/society?


Snao Cone

Recommended Posts

I see people engage in habits they know are bad for them all the time. They stay in bad relationships. They keep up a binge drinking habit. They post things online that they know will stress them out. They speed up on the road out of spite for the law. None of these contribute to wellness. Outside of mental illness (or preceding the development of mental illness) why do we do these things?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just Somebody

That's the way we are culturally raised... actually nobody buy anything if they're satisfied.... I mean the capitalist media and society teaches us from a very young age to hate everything we have.... so we can buy products that "supposedly " will make our lives better... but that will only make you more unsatisfied with time and want to buy more and more to fill the void that society opened in you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
andreas1033

If there was no organised religion, most people would resonate to there darkside in terms of spiritual selfs.

 

Thats the reason, why the ptb made mainstream religions, as most would not be good people. Only a minority would follow there good paths, in terms of lifes choices, if left alone to just live, without any controls.

 

This tells you why, humans are so destructive to themselves, and there environment.

 

No other animal, is so destructive to there environment, and they have no idea about it at all.

 

Its why vile sports like boxing/ufc or violent sports like that exist. Most people like such sports that should be banned. But seeing as most people like it, it exists, as it would be worse if it was outlawed, and driven underground. They cannot outlaw things like boxing, or ufc as it would be driven underground, and be worse.

 

Such sports should be banned in civil society, but most humans love these sorts of things.

 

Just accept it, that most people have the potential to be bad, and capable of destructive behaviours.

 

Its why gov, and police exist, and humans designed law and order, and rights for people, to be shared equally.

 

If no such thing existed as the catholic church, most people in this world, would be practising the darkside, of there spirituality. Before the catholic church, humans everywhere, were practising some very nasty things.

 

When people goto mass, and hear stories of what the mass tells them. They believe these things are obvious to everyone. No, thats not true.

 

Most people would naturally practise there darkside of there nature, if such a thing like the catholic church did not exist.

 

Remember humans are animals, and nature is absolutely brutal. Humans had to civilise themselves, through a  minority coming up with ways that teach others what good is, and how to apply it to there lifes.

 

A minority of all people, have always resonated to what you call good. These people are responsible, for driving human society to try and be better overall, in terms of making a society based on law and order, and trying to teach all humans, what good is, and why people should follow that path over what is bad.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A bit controversial and unusual but...

Not all self destructive things are inherently bad, sometimesthey can teach us about ourselves.

It's kind of a risk taken, everything has consequences and some are greater than others. But there are bad consequences.

 

In life, pain leads to growth and learning, maybe they're acting on a subconscious desire for that. A lot of my self destructive actions are basicallg overblown curiosity in a world where things are supposed to be "all sorted out." Maybe without chaos and pain life loses a lind of luster.

 

But the bad consequences are there, and it's important to be mindful of them. I feel like we should encourage ir teach philosophy in schools, even though many people would say it's useless. But I feel like the less we think about where things come from, where things go, what we are doing, what's the big picture, the more careless our actions become.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people are prone to feelings of emptiness and boredom and to feel "alive" they do all sorts of things that they find exciting. Usual things don't work for them any more at some point, so they chase more extreme experiences to fill the void and reach their new "excitement threshold". I know people like that and I must say it's a pretty tormented existence. They never feel at peace, really. 

 

Some do extreme and destructive things to escape something else - maybe their reality is so horrible, that they feel like they have no other choice. If you combine escaping pain with pleasure... you get the strongest addictions.

 

The ones that stay in bad relationships... they may have no support network, feel threatened, blackmailed, they are afraid their partner may hurt children or pets if they try to leave. Maybe after years of abuse they are in such a confused and numb mental state that they can't make any decision. Maybe they also live in a country that has no support for victims of domestic violence and they have no means to survive on their own. 

Some stay just out of fear of loneliness, fear of change, feeding on hope that maybe one day, one day it will all be fine. 

 

Many pretty extreme things people do can be summed up as either chasing excitement/pleasure or attempts at escaping pain. 

 

Of course there is that group of folks with a truly evil streak in them, but they aren't a majority.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not much of a gambler but I'd stake the two bucks to my name in my pocket today on a wager that we can be a tad self destructive, yes.

 

There is no singular answer as to why we are as we are. A drunkard could be destroying their liver and kidneys because alcohol erases the pain of a childhood and the present, and father taught him from day one of existence that there wasn't nothing wrong with drinking.

 

A smoker fights with a chemical dependency in the brain, and their own willpower to quit.

 

And the list is endless. I don't believe the inherent self-destruction to our actions is just a staple of the west. It's present in all cultures. The West has just excelled at it lately, again, for many, many reasons. But I think if we shave everything away down to the core, we're left the simple ability of being able to care.

 

A staple of my life is attempting "do no harm." I try to live my life as such by caring for every living thing I encounter. The disgusting fuck spider in the corner of the ceiling has every right to remain alive as long as it can, the same as I do. Same with the mosquitos that assault me outside, same with the worms and maggots in the decay. But even living by that standard, the reality is that I kill probably hundreds of bugs and other things every day simply by walking. So in theory, I could pace every single one of my steps with acute precision and care so as not to crush anything underfoot. But I would spend my entire day away at that rate. So I am left with no choice but to not care until something crosses my line of sight and I can actively do my best to avoid it.

 

I'm a lazy fuck, you know. The desire to simply sloth out on the couch and sleep the entire day away has never left me. I don't want to fucking work outside in the hot sun. I don't want to build shit. I don't want to get up in the morning. I spent five years on the streets being homeless for a reason. I do everything that I do today because it is my choice to. I suppose you could say that I have the neccessary willpower and motivation to abstain from the things that I know will harm me in the long run. I care enough to force myself to do shit I don't much like because I know the alternative is so much worse to succumb to.

 

Folks aren't self destructive, I think. They simply don't care or even have the mental capacity to see what they should be caring about. As I'm damn sure you know, you can't force somebody to care about something.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm,

 

I think the question we need to ask is how mentally well balanced are we?

 

I would argue that we all have situations, stresses, and circumstances that affect our mental well being.

 

Sometimes we can only cope with unhealthy practices because they have helped in the past.

 

Usually if something worked in the past, we do not make the effort to seek something new and healthier.

 

We are very much creatures of habit.

 

When in pain we seek the remedies that have made us feel better in the past.

 

I am not saying that we can't find other coping mechanisms, but I think sometimes the effort to do that involves more stress and discomfort.

 

Just my opinion on the question.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, StormySky said:

Not all self destructive things are inherently bad, sometimesthey can teach us about ourselves.

It's kind of a risk taken, everything has consequences and some are greater than others. But there are bad consequences.

It's more repeated bad choices that i think we should be concerned about. After a long week at work I can say "Fuck it, I'm going out for beers" and when the night ends early and unfulfilled I can say "Fuck it, I'm pouring myself another drink" to make a mildly bad choice worse. I knew the further alcohol wasn't necessary and would have consequences, but I did it anyway.

 

That's different from the risky choice of trusting people I met online enough to travel to another country to see them. I first did that when I was 22, in the mid 00s when things were riskier online and this was considered a much shadier thing. But it came out with positive life-affirming, if not life-changing, results. That's not the kind of risky behaviour I'm thinking of here, though. I'm thinking of things that we already know are bad for us.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, InariYana said:

The ones that stay in bad relationships... they may have no support network, feel threatened, blackmailed, they are afraid their partner may hurt children or pets if they try to leave. Maybe after years of abuse they are in such a confused and numb mental state that they can't make any decision. Maybe they also live in a country that has no support for victims of domestic violence and they have no means to survive on their own. 

I really do feel for the people who are essentially trapped in these relationships. It frustrates me to no end that there are folks who can't leave at risk of death, whether slowly through poverty or quickly through violence. 

 

I wish I could knock some sense into the people who aren't in situations this dangerous, though. They may rely on their relationship status (not their actual relationship) for some veil of meaning or identity, but they're capable of changing this. They can reframe how they evaluate their life. They can make short term sacrifices for their long term happiness. The sooner they do this the better. But they can be crippled by laziness or the comfort of inertia. I have my own examples of this, so I'm nowhere near perfect. But I do wish those who have options would recognize that they did.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

I wish I could knock some sense into the people who aren't in situations this dangerous, though. They may rely on their relationship status (not their actual relationship) for some veil of meaning or identity, but they're capable of changing this. They can reframe how they evaluate their life. They can make short term sacrifices for their long term happiness. The sooner they do this the better. But they can be crippled by laziness or the comfort of inertia. I have my own examples of this, so I'm nowhere near perfect. But I do wish those who have options would recognize that they did.  

Oh absolutely, this is basically my sister's situation and endless conversations with her did not help a tiny bit. She's almost 23 now and hasn't been single since age 15. She never managed to really focus on finding out who she really is away from the context of a relationship. Just her, herself, as a whole person, individual. The thought of becoming single scares her more than many other things, to the point of nervous breakdown. She's not happy in her current relationship (of many years) but she won't consider counselling, breaking up temporarily, nothing really. She chooses to remain in this relationship, but then does so much micro-cheating on the side... and then tries to justify all these actions with "oh, but I'm not getting that in my relationship and I need the attention". Her boyfriend is not happy either, but none of them wants to make that big step. Any step, really, in any direction.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just Somebody
1 hour ago, Just Somebody said:

That's the way we are culturally raised... actually nobody buy anything if they're satisfied.... I mean the capitalist media and society teaches us from a very young age to hate everything we have.... so we can buy products that "supposedly " will make our lives better... but that will only make you more unsatisfied with time and want to buy more and more to fill the void that society opened in you.

I just forgot to say that.... "in these cultures, hate makes more money than love and peace does"

 

OK now I'm done.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just Somebody
1 hour ago, andreas1033 said:

If there was no organised religion, most people would resonate to there darkside in terms of spiritual selfs.

 

Thats the reason, why the ptb made mainstream religions, as most would not be good people. Only a minority would follow there good paths, in terms of lifes choices, if left alone to just live, without any controls.

 

This tells you why, humans are so destructive to themselves, and there environment.

 

No other animal, is so destructive to there environment, and they have no idea about it at all.

 

Its why vile sports like boxing/ufc or violent sports like that exist. Most people like such sports that should be banned. But seeing as most people like it, it exists, as it would be worse if it was outlawed, and driven underground. They cannot outlaw things like boxing, or ufc as it would be driven underground, and be worse.

 

Such sports should be banned in civil society, but most humans love these sorts of things.

 

Just accept it, that most people have the potential to be bad, and capable of destructive behaviours.

 

Its why gov, and police exist, and humans designed law and order, and rights for people, to be shared equally.

 

If no such thing existed as the catholic church, most people in this world, would be practising the darkside, of there spirituality. Before the catholic church, humans everywhere, were practising some very nasty things.

 

When people goto mass, and hear stories of what the mass tells them. They believe these things are obvious to everyone. No, thats not true.

 

Most people would naturally practise there darkside of there nature, if such a thing like the catholic church did not exist.

 

Remember humans are animals, and nature is absolutely brutal. Humans had to civilise themselves, through a  minority coming up with ways that teach others what good is, and how to apply it to there lifes.

 

A minority of all people, have always resonated to what you call good. These people are responsible, for driving human society to try and be better overall, in terms of making a society based on law and order, and trying to teach all humans, what good is, and why people should follow that path over what is bad.

Well... let's not forget that humans are wild animals, so why do they live in societies ?

 

 

We live in societies because they "tame" humans with their cultural moral values that it teaches us, it teaches us feelings of guilty, remorse and shame... usually this comes in the form of organized religion teaching people that if they do not mess up with each other,  all their pain and suffering in this wild life will be rewarded with an dream like after-life. .. and people belive it because they must have that feeling of security that I explain below.

Also religions often have explanations for what humans don't understand,  so another reason for it to have been created , another reason it gives humans the sense of security and control they crave.

 

 

Why do we even need societies?  because humans  are their own worst enemies and the enemies of each other "men are the wolf of men", without society and it's cultural moral values we would still be killing and fighting each other like wild animals. .. and that's not fun, humans unlike others animals are conscious of this and can take racional decisions to maintain that sense of security we all crave since birth.

 

 

Anyway,  it's nice to point it out, I've read Freud's book called "civilization and it's discontents" in which he asks himself why we still live in society if it's cultural moral values makes us suffer more than please us? Would we do better without it ?.... and spoilers a head.... no, we wouldn't,  we have no better option at the moment.

He says basically what I said above... funny that what he said literally applies to any society, even if he wrote this 100 years ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites
EmotionalAndroid

The root of self-destructive behaviors is the human pain-body. It is within every single human being, not just people of a certain culture, and it feeds off pain and derives pleasure from it. It often works in tandem with the human ego to perpetuate suffering on ourselves and others. It is what "possesses" us when we let anger take hold and end up saying things we never wish to say. It is what urges us to watch violent films or binge sad music when we are depressed.

 

Eckhart Tolle describes it thusly:

 

"The pain-body is my term for the accumulation of old emotional pain that almost all people carry in their energy field. I see it as a semi-autonomous psychic entity. It consists of negative emotions that were not faced, accepted, and then let go in the moment they arose. These negative emotions leave a residue of emotional pain, which is stored in the cells of the body. There is also a collective human pain-body containing the pain suffered by countless human beings throughout history. The pain-body has a dormant stage and an active stage. Periodically it becomes activated, and when it does, it seeks more suffering to feed on. If you are not absolutely present, it takes over your mind and feeds on negative thinking as well as negative experiences such as drama in relationships. This is how it has been perpetuating itself throughout human history. Another way of describing the pain-body is this: the addiction to unhappiness."

 

For more info on this, check out this link: http://skillsforawakening.com/teachings/the-pain-body/

A more in-depth discussion about it can be found in the book "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Life's a meandering course, I guess. People will make all kinds of decisions that might be bad for them throughout life, but they may not see it that way -- they might be reasoning through it differently. A binge drinker might be thinking about how drinking used to improve his or her social situation, or maybe it puts them in a state of mind that numbs things they don't want to think about. Objectively, binge drinking's pretty unhealthy and damages long-term outlook, but it's easy to ignore or even embrace that under certain conditions and circumstances. People in general probably strive to be at their optimal, but there are a lot of factors that drive whether or not their reasoning is actually pushing them toward optimality. 

 

I don't think culture itself is intentionally self-destructive; individuals can rationalize all sorts of behaviors that are bad from the perspective of an objective outsider. People generally want a high quality of life, but their environment and the choices (or lack thereof) laid out in front of them significantly influences what their conception of "quality of life" is. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Looking through history, it seems societies are destined to flourish for a while then decline and bottom out or disappear entirely, just an evolutionary thing I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In a very simplistic sense, we do these things because we can.  I doubt if anyone says to themselves before they take a dicey action, "I know this is self-destructive but I'm going to do it anyway."   They may label their action self-destructive after they take it (or not), but at the moment they simply carry out what their whole being moves them to do.  The force, the rush, the push they feel to ACT -- take that drink, have that risky sex, speed in that car, say those nasty hurtful words -- completely obliterates any faint inner voice saying "you'll regret this."    

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sally said:

I doubt if anyone says to themselves before they take a dicey action, "I know this is self-destructive but I'm going to do it anyway."

I say that to myself before eating my fourth slice of pizza. 😛

Link to post
Share on other sites

I sometimes wonder if we are a self-destructive society when it comes to the bystander effect. Someone is being attacked or suffering tremendously in a public place, and people stand and watch, record on their phones, or walk away from the scene while the person suffers. What is up with that? How can that be changed?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

I say that to myself before eating my fourth slice of pizza. 😛

If I ate three slices of pizza I'd be incapable of self-talk or thought of any kind.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Book Witch said:

I sometimes wonder if we are a self-destructive society when it comes to the bystander effect. Someone is being attacked or suffering tremendously in a public place, and people stand and watch, record on their phones, or walk away from the scene while the person suffers. What is up with that? How can that be changed?

I think we've become videographers/reporters in our own eyes because we own the technology to do so.  We want to be able to play the "movie" for friends later, and that desire stifles any feeling of empathy or desire to act.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Humans as a whole are a very destructive species, not just in our communities but the earth is self. We are the only species that if went extinct wouldn’t have a negative effect on the remaining flora and fauna (except the spread have modified for our own use). Just learning about how much humans have destroyed in the short time we have been around, really upset me when I was a kid. I use to wish I was born anything but human, I was ashamed of what we are as a species on this planet.

 

I know I’m a little off topic every seems to be more on the behaviour of humans and the way they affect each other but I have never really understood the human mind that well. 

 

You can can ignore my rambling lol

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/30/2018 at 5:38 PM, andreas1033 said:

Before the catholic church, humans everywhere, were practising some very nasty things.

The catholic church ran the Inquisition for 356 years. I'd much prefer individuals that have been taught to think for themselves of the consequences of their actions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

I say that to myself before eating my fourth slice of pizza. 😛

 

Get on my level casual peasant. I say that to myself after eating the whole pizza.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think humans are inherently self-destructive, we're so concerned about "us" and "ourselves", it first starts out as hatred of anyone other than yourself and immediate family, then anyone outside of your "group", whether is be racial or not, it's a trend among humanity that doesn't seem to die out, because we're too stupid not to care about superficial things, and by time we listen to the message of reason, it's much too late.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/30/2018 at 12:08 PM, E said:

 

Folks aren't self destructive, I think. They simply don't care or even have the mental capacity to see what they should be caring about. As I'm damn sure you know, you can't force somebody to care about something.

Well if you want to be technical, to be human, is to be humane, which means to be kind- to yourself, to others, to the planet and the creatures that live on it besides humans. I think when you start disregarding "humane-ness", you become less human, and more "something else" which hurts you in return.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SorryNotSorry

Not so much self-destructive as pleasure-centered, I think.

 

I've asked plenty of people from outside the US, and they agree with me that yes, Americans are more likely to be pleasure junkies than non-Americans.

 

"If it feels good, do it" is generally terrible advice, but hey, it's how you live life, if all that matters to you is getting your next endorphin hit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an evolutionary trait we haven't grown out of. Our society has changed from the heydays of hunters and gatherers, but we haven't. It's a bit like fat cells: very valuable in the past, and an evolutionary strength. Now it's the opposite.

 

All of the 'self-destructive' activities can be attributed to instant gratification. I'd argue it's not a culture, it's more of a lack of control that's been taken advantage of. We've unwittingly built our digital world to feed into this instant dopamine, and to get more of it, we move on to acts that contribute to more delicious bursts.

 

But, there is a solution: lots of self-help books and apps help control these cravings and 'retrain' oneself into a different mode of doing and acting.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...