Ask an Expat

[Grumpy Alien]

ex·pa·tri·ate

noun

noun: expatriate; plural noun: expatriates

ˌeksˈpātrēət/

1. 1.

   a person who lives outside their native country.

   "American expatriates in London"

   • archaic

     a person exiled from their native country.

     synonyms:

     emigrant, nonnative, émigré, migrant;  informalexpat "expatriates working overseas"

     antonyms:

     national

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Why were you exiled?

[Guest]

Is there anything you miss about the country you moved from?

[Grumpy Alien]

40 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Why were you exiled?

 

39 minutes ago, OptimisticPessimist said:

What’s been the biggest thing in terms of culture here that you’ve maybe found hard to ajust too? 

Ugh I could write a huge list- Wait I have a list, which I'll include below... They're all really small things but they add up. They're very hard to imagine to anyone from any culture as being a big deal but I think if you've ever immigrated, daily small culture shocks can sometimes be worse than a few big ones? It feels like I'm constantly on eggshells, wondering what I don't know that I don't know and what faux pas I'm going to make next. It can be completely humiliating even when everyone understands that I didn't know and that my culture is different.

Spoiler

 

This list is not exhaustive, it's just what I have on my phone from a while ago.

• Formalities. Informal British emails are incredibly formal compared to American ones. One to one emails often include smiley faces even between a department head (think senior line manager's line manager) and an entry level employee. Hats indoors is apparently rude, which I found out the hard way. 
• Shoes must be taken off as soon as you enter the house. But there's exceptions. I find myself just following whatever the British people are doing and when in doubt, take them off. I sometimes make mistakes there still.
• Smoking is commonplace and done by children. I don't personally know any Americans that smoke so this was very shocking. The American perception of cigarette smokers is usually older poor people who started before it was a big health concern and just never quit. It's looked down upon. I've never seen a young person smoking cigarettes here, though weed is common. (Just not as common as it is there.)
• British people drink A LOT. They seem to have very high tolerance for alcohol. They start drinking several years before most Americans and seem to drink in higher quantities on average.
• Age of adulthood. In the US, you are legally an adult at 18 but you aren't really considered an adult in society until you have a job and some experience being independent. You're not done mandatory school until 18 and you're usually expected to get a 4 year degree straight away. It's then hard to get a job and often they end up living at home until mid 20s. You can't drink or gamble until you're 21 so that's more commonly the "true adult age." In the UK, all of those ages are much lower and it seems to be that teenagers are considered adults. I have yet to wrap my head around that and I'm not sure I ever will.
• Schooling is much more hardcore. British schools are infinitely better at actually educating. I feel really fucking stupid all the time because my high school diploma is about the level of a 10 year old British kid. My 7 year old to-be brother in-law knows more maths than I was ever even taught. University is often complained about as expensive but the tuition is probably more on par for what American students pay just for books each year.
• Apprenticeships. These still confuse me, to be honest, though I think it's a great idea. There's nothing like it in the US. The closest thing we have are internships and those are for university students and usually unpaid and unimportant work, basically to help gain a little experience with a potential future employer.
• Houses are so overpriced and cars are worth almost nothing in comparison to the US. Houses that cost over half a million in the UK would be worth about £200,000 in most of the US. Houses are also incredibly tiny and most would not be considered a "house" in the US, but a "condo."
• Cooking. I honestly had never cooked a meal out of necessity while living in the US. My mom never cooked and I never liked the idea of spending more time preparing a meal than you'll spend eating it and then having to clean up the mess. I loathe cooking. But it's pretty much an essential every day chore in the UK unless you live off frozen pizzas and pre-boxed sandwiches. There's not a huge selection of microwaveable food.
• DIY. I thought my in-laws were just really hardcore DIY fans but it turns out that's just the norm. The fact that there are DIY shops proves that. British people seem to like fixing and installing things themselves for slightly cheaper but a lot more time and effort than hiring a professional, even if it's something they have no experience or interest in. I would never have considered installing a new bathroom sink instead of having a plumber do it. I honestly didn't even know most things could be done without professional experience.
• Cars. British people LOVE cars and have really strong opinions on them and need to know a hell of a lot more to be allowed to drive them than Americans. (I couldn't tell you what's under the hood of my car or how any of it works and I don't care.) Also, I can't understand the love of manual cars. They're horrible.
• SO MANY HOLIDAYS. EVERY OTHER DAY IS A HOLIDAY. AND EVERYTHING ACTUALLY CLOSES. SO MUCH TIME OFF AS WELL. WHEN DO PEOPLE EVEN WORK?
• British people really like tradition? I feel like every time I ask why something is done a certain way, I get "Because it just is? That's always how it's been done." They seem to hate change.
• I still have trouble with opening windows and locking/unlocking doors because they're different designs and I'm dumb.
• The post office isn't run by the government and has limited hours which is weird to me. But they offer a lot more services than I'm used to, which is a good weird.
• I still don't understand the healthcare system. I have a love-hate relationship with the NHS.
• I've never considered myself brash but I most certainly am in comparison. I'm very reserved for an American but I feel like screaming whenever I see my British fiance or his family or my British friends just accepting the unacceptable because "there's nothing they can do" - I see that as being a doormat and having no backbone. They see my approach of challenging it as unacceptable behavior.

 

 

[Grumpy Alien]

37 minutes ago, Princess Merida said:

Is there anything you miss about the country you moved from?

YES. 24/7 shops, things open on Sundays, dishwashers, the lower cost of housing, much higher incomes, people I'm close to and my cat. But not much else.

[Grumpy Alien]

@OptimisticPessimist I have just thought of another culture difference I have to get used to but still think is bizarre! Titles. (As in Miss/Ms/Mrs/Mr and all those other weird ones.) The first time I ordered something from a British website, I genuinely had to ask my partner what mine would be. I didn’t know the difference between Miss and Ms. I had never really been addressed with a title, to my knowledge. We call teachers Mrs or Mr [surname], when you’re little you might call your friends’ parents by Mr and Mrs, professors are Professor [surname], and physicians or anyone possessing a doctorate degree and work in the field they studied are Dr [surname]. (Side note: Americans would never separate doctors who are surgeons from doctors who are not surgeons. Some doctors only do surgery, some never do, some do it sometimes... They are all called Dr. In the UK, a surgeon is called Mr, which baffles me. You will face a very angry or confused surgeon in the US if you address them as such in the workplace.) I can’t think of anyone else that would ever use a title. UK credit cards even have titles on them. I like showing those to Americans who think it’s weird! 😜

 

I actually feel really uncomfortable with the use of titles. It feels far too formal. I don’t like getting mail to Miss Graceful Surname. That’s not my name. My name is Graceful Surname. What is the point of specifying my gender and marital status? Just sounds really pretentious to me. I have started selecting Other when possible in protest since I’ve yet to see title as optional. Debenhams sends me things addressed to Other Graceful Surname now, which I find amusing.

 

I have discovered that in the UK, a divorced woman is considered a Mrs. I was shocked when my partner wrote Mrs Graceful’s Mom on something and politely corrected him that she’s not married. In the US, I knew other kids with divorced parents and if you accidentally called your friend’s mom Mrs, they would be offended and correct you. Imagine the woman’s married name is Jones and their maiden name is Smith. They’re divorced, don’t speak to their ex. If you call them Mrs Jones, that’s saying they’re married to their ex, rubbing salt in a wound. If you call them Mrs Smith, you’re saying they’re married to an immediate male relative, which is creepy. I’ve never met a divorced American woman who goes by Mrs. That would be very weird to us.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

12 hours ago, okir fokir said:

Also, I can't understand the love of manual cars. They're horrible.

I'll accept the titles thing, I don't like it either, but I'm not accepting this. You Americans just don't know how to drive properly.

[fuzzipueo]

Just now, Anthracite_Impreza said:

12 hours ago, okir fokir said:

Also, I can't understand the love of manual cars. They're horrible.

I'll accept the titles thing, I don't like it either, but I'm not accepting this. You Americans just don't know how to drive properly.

When you're not used to driving a manual shift, changing over from an automatic can be a shock and a bit scary. Unfortunately, manual shift cars are becoming rarer and will be out of production on this side of the pond fairly soon. It's too bad really, since manual shift can be fun to drive - unless you have daymares about sitting on hills and having the car conk out on you when you accidentally stall out ... 

I do think kids ought to be taught with manual shift cars, because it forces you to pay attention to how fast you're going, and how the engine sounds when you put it in the wrong gear.

[Grumpy Alien]

3 hours ago, fuzzipueo said:

When you're not used to driving a manual shift, changing over from an automatic can be a shock and a bit scary. Unfortunately, manual shift cars are becoming rarer and will be out of production on this side of the pond fairly soon. It's too bad really, since manual shift can be fun to drive - unless you have daymares about sitting on hills and having the car conk out on you when you accidentally stall out ... 

I do think kids ought to be taught with manual shift cars, because it forces you to pay attention to how fast you're going, and how the engine sounds when you put it in the wrong gear.

I asked once how they know to change gear and it was partly sound. I didn’t even know you could hear an engine. (I’m Hard of Hearing and struggle with lower pitches.) I hate driving and find it very stressful in the US with bigger roads and lower speed limits. I often feel like I can’t take my hand off the wheel just to turn the air up or change the radio station. I can’t imagine having to add something to pay attention to and take my hand off the wheel for in the UK where even being a passenger is terrifying to me. I don’t see the appeal and I don’t see the benefit.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

5 minutes ago, okir fokir said:

I asked once how they know to change gear and it was partly sound. I didn’t even know you could hear an engine. (I’m Hard of Hearing and struggle with lower pitches.) I hate driving and find it very stressful in the US with bigger roads and lower speed limits. I often feel like I can’t take my hand off the wheel just to turn the air up or change the radio station. I can’t imagine having to add something to pay attention to and take my hand off the wheel for in the UK where even being a passenger is terrifying to me. I don’t see the appeal and I don’t see the benefit.

WTF?? I can tell what gear we're in just by sound and an approximate speed. I also often drive one handed with the other either leaning on the door or on the gear-stick (I'm one of "those"). Meant to do a poll about that actually, I'm told it's a very "man" way to drive.

 

3 hours ago, fuzzipueo said:

unless you have daymares about sitting on hills and having the car conk out on you when you accidentally stall out ...

Practice. On hills. Steep ones. I learnt exceptional biting point control that way (I don't to brag often, ok!)

[Grumpy Alien]

As mentioned in Ask a Brit, I find the use of the letter X to signify a kiss at the end of most messages very weird and kind of creepy.

[Guest]

-Did you retain a dual citizenship?

 

-Experience culture shock once a local or citizen of your new country?

 

-Would you ever return to your country of origin?

 

Last question. I promise.

 

-What was the most difficult thing from your move?

[Grumpy Alien]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

-Did you retain a dual citizenship?

 

-Experience culture shock once a local or citizen of your new country?

 

-Would you ever return to your country of origin?

 

Last question. I promise.

 

-What was the most difficult thing from your move?

I will be able to retain dual citizenship eventually. I become eligible to take the British citizenship test after 5 years of residency.

 

I started experiencing culture shocks once living like a local. Never when I was visiting.

 

I have never wanted to live in the US. If I end up living in America in thebfar future, it will likely be out of necessity. I don’t see that happening. Definitely visits though.

 

I honestly think the most difficult thing is simply the stress. Trying to get your stuff across an ocean, saving money, going from having lots of money to spare to in debt and frugal budgeting, the immense stress of visas, worrying about how you’re perceived, trying to get a job in a foreign country... especially since I can’t have a British bank account or get a mortgage until I’ve been a resident for 12 or more months. It’s just really hard to figure out.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, okir fokir said:

It’s just really hard to figure out.

I've heavily considered venturing into business overseas. Its still part of my goals in life in the near future. Spoke to so many entrepreneurs overseas who had done so, during my travels. You'd hear of the benefits, but mostly of the major challenges, too.

[Grumpy Alien]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I've heavily considered venturing into business overseas. Its still part of my goals in life in the near future. Spoke to so many entrepreneurs overseas who had done so, during my travels. You'd hear of the benefits, but mostly of the major challenges, too.

I think it’s not for the lighthearted. I sometimes think I must be insane for putting myself through this. But if you can get yourself through the hard bit, it’s likely worth it. Just keep in mind everything will be harder and take longer than you imagined!

[Grumpy Alien]

http://www.deborahswallow.com/2010/05/15/the-classic-5-stage-culture-shock-model/

[Lia]

Moved from off-a to PPS

 

Lia

Mod

[Grumpy Alien]

On 7/26/2018 at 9:40 PM, Princess Merida said:

Is there anything you miss about the country you moved from?

 

On 7/26/2018 at 10:19 PM, okir fokir said:

YES. 24/7 shops, things open on Sundays, dishwashers, the lower cost of housing, much higher incomes, people I'm close to and my cat. But not much else.

AIR CONDITIONING. How could I forget? This is way more important than things being open on Sundays or off hours. In fact, I’d also put it as more important than the housing and income issues. If I could just have a dishwasher and air conditioning...

[Cimmerian]

22 hours ago, okir fokir said:

@OptimisticPessimist I have just thought of another culture difference I have to get used to but still think is bizarre! Titles.

 

(Side note: Americans would never separate doctors who are surgeons from doctors who are not surgeons. Some doctors only do surgery, some never do, some do it sometimes... They are all called Dr. In the UK, a surgeon is called Mr, which baffles me. You will face a very angry or confused surgeon in the US if you address them as such in the workplace.) I can’t think of anyone else that would ever use a title. UK credit cards even have titles on them. I like showing those to Americans who think it’s weird! 😜

 

I actually feel really uncomfortable with the use of titles. It feels far too formal. I don’t like getting mail to Miss Graceful Surname. That’s not my name. My name is Graceful Surname. What is the point of specifying my gender and marital status? Just sounds really pretentious to me. I have started selecting Other when possible in protest since I’ve yet to see title as optional. Debenhams sends me things addressed to Other Graceful Surname now, which I find amusing.

  

I have discovered that in the UK, a divorced woman is considered a Mrs. I was shocked when my partner wrote Mrs Graceful’s Mom on something and politely corrected him that she’s not married. In the US, I knew other kids with divorced parents and if you accidentally called your friend’s mom Mrs, they would be offended and correct you. Imagine the woman’s married name is Jones and their maiden name is Smith. They’re divorced, don’t speak to their ex. If you call them Mrs Jones, that’s saying they’re married to their ex, rubbing salt in a wound. If you call them Mrs Smith, you’re saying they’re married to an immediate male relative, which is creepy. I’ve never met a divorced American woman who goes by Mrs. That would be very weird to us.

....Wow I didn't realize about the titles usage being different over there or still being used so commonly! I remember learning about titles and teachers always being Mr or Mrs./ Ms. I can't imagine using a perceived lesser term for the doctors that would operate on you.

I agree that having to specify your gender and marital status with them is absurd to have to do constantly. The US doesn't ask for it a lot but even the times we get asked about it, I dislike it.

I can't imagine how or why the Brits are using Mrs. for divorced women; that'd be extremely insulting over here. Ms is the most neutral option the US has for women and acts as unknown-marriage-status (even though it traditionally did seem to be used for divorced women). Sometimes the historical differences between the two countries stand out in odd ways, I wouldn't have thought the women's rights movement would have had that particular gap though. o.o

[Grumpy Alien]

5 minutes ago, Cimmerian said:

....Wow I didn't realize about the titles usage being different over there or still being used so commonly! I remember learning about titles and teachers always being Mr or Mrs./ Ms. I can't imagine using a perceived lesser term for the doctors that would operate on you.

I agree that having to specify your gender and marital status with them is absurd to have to do constantly. The US doesn't ask for it a lot but even the times we get asked about it, I dislike it.

I can't imagine how or why the Brits are using Mrs. for divorced women; that'd be extremely insulting over here. Ms is the most neutral option the US has for women and acts as unknown-marriage-status (even though it traditionally did seem to be used for divorced women). Sometimes the historical differences between the two countries stand out in odd ways, I wouldn't have thought the women's rights movement would have had that particular gap though. o.o

 

Tada!

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I can't wait to have the constant gender-neutral title arguments when I start transitioning properly...

[Skycaptain]

Agrees, Mx is almost unheard of in the cis community 

[Grumpy Alien]

7 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I can't wait to have the constant gender-neutral title arguments when I start transitioning properly...

I don’t think you’d ever encounter that in the US. 😜 

[Cobie]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:31 AM, okir fokir said:

 

I have discovered that in the UK, a divorced woman is considered a Mrs ...

You can use Ms or Mx.

[Ortac]

Weighing up all the positives and negatives of each, which in your opinion is the better country? The United States, or the United Kingdom? 

[Grumpy Alien]

4 hours ago, Ortac said:

Weighing up all the positives and negatives of each, which in your opinion is the better country? The United States, or the United Kingdom? 

Overall, the UK is better. There's a lot of things they really suck at but... no question, they're overall better. 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

1 hour ago, okir fokir said:

Overall, the UK is better. There's a lot of things they really suck at but... no question, they're overall better. 

Of course we are *puts down sniper rifle*

[RoseGoesToYale]

How do you become an expat? Is it expensive? I just wanna get out of here!

[Grumpy Alien]

28 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

How do you become an expat? Is it expensive? I just wanna get out of here!

1. Heavily depends on where you're coming from and where you want to go. Literally my only option as an American going to the UK is marriage. Fortunately, I'm doing that anyway. (Honestly, kind of a miracle how my life is turning out...) I don't personally qualify for any other visa in the UK. If you live in the EU, you can very easily just up and move to another country within the EU as you please.

2. YES. SO MUCH YES. LOTS OF MONEY AND TIME AND EFFORT.

[Ortac]

I guess you probably haven't thought this far ahead, but if in a number of years time you are fully settled in your new country, you have become a naturized citizen, and you intend to stay there the rest of your life and have no intention of living in the USA again, would you consider renouncing your American citizenship? 

 

This is quite a hot topic for American expats, and opinion among them seems to be divided. The USA is one of only a tiny number of countries that taxes people based on citizenship rather than place of residence, and many Americans living in other countries don't like it that they have to submit annual tax disclosures to the American authorities when they no longer live there. Even if they don't earn enough to actually incur a tax liability in America, the tax returns still have to be submitted, and richer people will even have to pay income tax to America as well as in their country of residence! I have had conversations with American expats here in France who have renounced their citizenship because of this. Other Americans feel that there is absolutely no way they would ever do that; American citizenship is something that is envied by many people around the world, and they would never dream of throwing that away. 

 

What do you think?