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Hi I'm not ACE but I think my wife is.


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Alejandrogynous

If I had the choice between sex or no sex, I'm going to choose no sex, but if I'm going to have sex (for compromise or whatever reason), I'm going to want it kinky over vanilla every time. 

 

Which is all @ryn2 is trying to say, from what I can tell. 

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

That’s not the kink portion of the list.

Oh. I'll dig out the kink one.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Alejandrogynous said:

If I had the choice between sex or no sex, I'm going to choose no sex, but if I'm going to have sex (for compromise or whatever reason), I'm going to want it kinky over vanilla every time. 

 

Which is all @ryn2 is trying to say, from what I can tell. 

That's like saying 'I'd rather not run a marathon, but if I have to, I'd like to do it in nice scenery', and deducing I'm more of a runner than someone who regularly does 15k runs in grim northern cities.

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Alejandrogynous
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

That's like saying 'I'd rather not run a marathon, but if I have to, I'd like to do it in nice scenery', and deducing I'm more of a runner than someone who regularly does 15k runs in grim northern cities.

No..? I mean yes to the first part of the analogy, but no to thinking being kinky makes me or my preferences any more sexual than a vanilla sexual person. 

 

All the original point was (from my understanding of reading the thread, if I'm getting it wrong, please correct me) is that orientation doesn't necessarily play a part in what a person would check off that list. A sexual person could be 100% vanilla and would still be more sexual than an asexual person who says if they have to have sex, they want bondage involved. 

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2 minutes ago, Alejandrogynous said:

All the original point was (from my understanding of reading the thread, if I'm getting it wrong, please correct me) is that orientation doesn't necessarily play a part in what a person would check off that list. A sexual person could be 100% vanilla and would still be more sexual than an asexual person who says if they have to have sex, they want bondage involved. 

Yes, exactly.

 

I was then extrapolating from that to say that it’s not safe to assume that any given ace will prefer the “tame” or vanilla choices over the kinkier ones.

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Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, Alejandrogynous said:

A sexual person could be 100% vanilla and would still be more sexual than an asexual person who says if they have to have sex, they want bondage involved. 

This is true. But I don't think you could then go on to infer that the more things you tick off that list, the kinkier you are, regardless whether you're asexual or not. The list is implicitly assuming people want to have sex; the only question is what kind of sex. Nothing more than that can be inferred from responses.

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If you use the full list, which includes kink/BDSM/fetish questions, you very much can infer that.

 

Aces willing to engage in sexual activities (and kinky ones who aren’t) aren’t by virtue of their aceness more likely to go for the vanilla things, to “have a heart attack”/be shocked reading the list, etc.

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Alejandrogynous
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is true. But I don't think you could then go on to infer that the more things you tick off that list, the kinkier you are, regardless whether you're asexual or not. The list is implicitly assuming people want to have sex; the only question is what kind of sex. Nothing more than that can be inferred from responses.

So if I, an asexual, prefer kinky sex over vanilla sex (and still prefer no sex over any of it), you'd still consider me less kinky than that 100% vanilla sexual person?

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15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

The list is implicitly assuming people want to have sex; the only question is what kind of sex.

To me it’s implicitly assuming you want to better your sex life, and the question is what kinds of sex you’re willing to engage in to do so.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Alejandrogynous said:

So if I, an asexual, prefer kinky sex over vanilla sex (and still prefer no sex over any of it), you'd still consider me less kinky than that 100% vanilla sexual person?

Yes, because you'd prefer 'neither' over both vanilla and kinky sex.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes, because you'd prefer 'neither' over both vanilla and kinky sex.

That says alex is less sexual, not alex is less kinky.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

To me it’s implicitly assuming you want to better your sex life, and the question is what kinds of sex you’re willing to engage in to do so.

And asexuals don't want to better their sex life. They want to better their relationship, and they've learned that having sex is going to be what it takes.

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Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

That says alex is less sexual, not alex is less kinky.

But if you entirely detach kink from sex, all you have is a hobby.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

And asexuals don't want to better their sex life. They want to better their relationship, and they've learned that having sex is going to be what it takes.

Both asexuals and sexuals may want to better their sex lives.  It’s the why that’s different.

 

Both may want to improve their sex lives to improve their relationships.  They may also both want to focus on things they enjoy more.  Sexuals would be the only ones wanting to better their sex lives strictly because they want sex.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

But if you entirely detach kink from sex, all you have is a hobby.

That’s a fundamental lack of understanding of kink, in the same way aces don’t really deep-down “get” what it’s like to be sexual.

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Alejandrogynous
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

That’s a fundamental lack of understanding of kink, in the same way aces don’t really deep-down “get” what it’s like to be sexual.

This. 

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Telecaster68
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

That’s a fundamental lack of understanding of kink, in the same way aces don’t really deep-down “get” what it’s like to be sexual.

If nobody's getting aroused, it's not sex, so it's just another variety of people relating to each other, and has no place in that Mojo Upgrade questionnaire. You could add 'making cheese' as a kink, if it brings people closer.

 

If they're getting aroused, it's sexual.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

Surely improving an asexual's sex life would mean having less sex.

It could mean that.  It could also mean having more palatable sex compared to less palatable sex, or having sex the sexual partner really likes rather than sex the sexual partner is less thrilled with.

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Telecaster68
3 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It could also mean having more palatable sex compared to less palatable sex, or having sex the sexual partner really likes rather than sex the sexual partner is less thrilled with.

Which is having different sex for the sake of the relationship. Ideally, there'd be 'no sex'.

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2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

If nobody's getting aroused, it's not sex, so it's just another variety of people relating to each other, and has no place in that Mojo Upgrade questionnaire. You could add 'making cheese' as a kink, if it brings people closer.

 

If they're getting aroused, it's sexual.

The point of the mojo upgrade questionnaire is to help people identify potential compatibility with one another.  If the ace partner prefers kinky sex to vanilla sex and the sexual partner is willing to engage in kinky sex as well, that may be a place they can reach a workable, or at least better, compromise.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Which is having different sex for the sake of the relationship. Ideally, there'd be 'no sex'.

It’s still a reason to want to better a sex life.

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Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

The point of the mojo upgrade questionnaire is to help people identify potential compatibility with one another.  If the ace partner prefers kinky sex to vanilla sex and the sexual partner is willing to engage in kinky sex as well, that may be a place they can reach a workable, or at least better, compromise.

I agree, but it wasn't what we were discussing.

 

As an example, is 'one partner ordering the other to make cheese' on the list (I can't find a link to it anywhere, just the more vanilla one)?

 

I'm assuming it's not, so why is it not a kink, if things like 'being told to do housework is' (I'm assuming something similar to that is)?

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

It’s still a reason to want to better a sex life.

But it's not a better sex life, for the asexual. It's a worse sex life, but they're willing to make that sacrifice to improve the relationship.

 

If a sexual wanted to do new things, it would be for their own sake.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

I agree, but it wasn't what we were discussing.

I wasn’t discussing most of what you’ve added in either.

 

1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

As an example, is 'one partner ordering the other to make cheese' on the list (I can't find a link to it anywhere, just the more vanilla one)?

I “found” it from the link provided in this thread by selecting the option to preview the activities and then scrolling down.

 

3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm assuming it's not, so why is it not a kink, if things like 'being told to do housework is' (I'm assuming something similar to that is)?

You lost me.  I’m sure some folks out there do order their subs to make cheese but the list itself doen’t exhaustively specify what people in a master/slave or D/s lifestyle might request of/do for one another.

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But it's not a better sex life, for the asexual. It's a worse sex life, but they're willing to make that sacrifice to improve the relationship.

No, that’s not true.  A sex life comprising any of the things I listed (below again for reference) is better than one which doesn’t include them.

 

15 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It could also mean having more palatable sex compared to less palatable sex, or having sex the sexual partner really likes rather than sex the sexual partner is less thrilled with.

Better does not have to mean perfect or ideal.  It just means an improvement over the previous state.

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9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

If a sexual wanted to do new things, it would be for their own sake

Would it never be to improve the relationship (if the other sexual partner is bored, say) or just to find new things the partner likes and potentially try them?

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anisotrophic

I'm a bit wary about framing "motivated to do something because it makes someone happy" as a "chore" or "compromise".

(But clearly it's easy to forget about something that someone else cares about, if you don't personally care about it.)

And to @Alejandrogynous's point: I think I would be more amenable to kink than vanilla sex with someone that I'm not sexually attracted to.

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15 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Would it never be to improve the relationship (if the other sexual partner is bored, say) or just to find new things the partner likes and potentially try them?

This question made me realize something else - that once again it is me, the sexual, leading the charge as I was the one who found the quiz and took the initiative in doing it. Left to his own devices, my husband never would've even looked. Despite his enjoyment once sex is initiated, his total obliviousness otherwise still makes me think he is grey ace, as I'm not sure that just low T would make him as unmotivated as he's been. 

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10 minutes ago, InProgress said:

This question made me realize something else - that once again it is me, the sexual, leading the charge as I was the one who found the quiz and took the initiative in doing it. Left to his own devices, my husband never would've even looked. Despite his enjoyment once sex is initiated, his total obliviousness otherwise still makes me think he is grey ace, as I'm not sure that just low T would make him as unmotivated as he's been. 

On the other hand, I - the grey-ish one, who also happens to be the kinkier one - am the one pushing for compromise and questionnaires in my relationship.

 

As tele and a few others have mentioned, it often seems to be the more motivated, communicative partners who find their way here regardless of where they fall sexuality-wise.

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