Hi I'm not ACE but I think my wife is.

[Telecaster68]

2 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Certainly possible.  Either way, I don’t think adventurousness or whatever you want to call it is directly proportional to where one falls on the ace/not ace spectrum. 

Hmmmm. I'd be stunned if someone did a proper analysis of sexual vs asexual responses to that Mojo Upgrade form and the asexuals came out willing to do as many sexual things as sexuals.

[ryn2]

Given that it’s likely a higher portion of asexuals (than sexuals) is sex-repulsed/averse overall, agreed.

 

However, if you limit it to people of any sexuality who are willing to engage in any sex acts at all I’m not sure there is a direct relationship between desired frequency and adventurousness.

 

Even the discussions here have shown that some people want a lot of variety and others find the same thing over and over perfect.

 

Also, a good portion of the list is kink and that’s not tied to orientation.  There are plenty of very sexual people out there who find power play and (what they consider) violence between partners, sexual in nature or not, quite off-putting.  Likewise, even here on AVEN there are a good number of kink-loving/kink-open aces posting.

 

With the exception of one item the non-kink stuff on the list hardly seems boundary-pushing to me.

[anisotrophic]

Answers might be more similar if you prefaced the whole list, for a sexual, with a clause like "with someone you like (e.g. as a good friend), but aren't sexually attracted to (e.g. of a gender you aren't attracted to)"?

 

Sometimes I suspect the high rate of "aversion" for asexual folks is largely a normal-range response - for sexual folks as well - when not experiencing attraction.

[Telecaster68]

23 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Given that it’s likely a higher portion of asexuals (than sexuals) is sex-repulsed/averse overall, agreed.

That's a classic AVEN 'some'....

 

This sex-repulsed sexual concept seems to me like one of those 'theoretically-possible-but-never-seen-in-the-real-world' things AVEN loves. We're talking about someone who wants to have sex with other people but finds it all too ewwww to actually do, but somehow isn't asexual? How does that even work? Surely they'd just be asexual because when it comes to it, they don't want to have sex with anyone else? There's no difference.

 

Even if it it is a thing, it's going to be a tiny number.

 

Compare it with the number of sex-repulsed asexuals, which IIRC from the last AVEN survey (the only data I've seen on it), is about half of asexuals. At least. 

 

So 'a higher portion' is actually half of asexuals vs almost no sexuals. 

 

Then consider the number of non-sex-averse asexuals. By definition they're neutral towards sex, and most tolerate sexual activity, at whatever they feel is the lowest frequency their partner can accept and still be happy in the relationship, at most. They'd rather cuddle.

 

Here's the list. You really think asexuals are as likely as sexuals to say they want to do these?

 

Spoiler

• have longer teasing and foreplay sessions with partner
• give partner a sensual massage
• have partner give me a sensual massage
• take pictures of partner
• have pictures taken by partner
• take pictures of us having sex
• strip or give a lap dance to partner
• have partner strip or give me a lap dance
• film ourselves having sex
• use mirrors while having sex
• wake partner up with sex or oral sex
• be woken up with sex or oral sex by partner
• watch partner masturbate
• be watched by partner while I masturbate
• shave partner
• be shaven by partner
• shave each other
• watch porn together
• show partner how I like something from porn scene
• be shown what partner likes from porn
• thrust my penis between partner's breasts
• be more vocal towards partner during sex
• have partner be more vocal
• talk dirtier to partner
• have partner talk dirtier to me
• call partner obscene words (bitch, slut, whore, etc)
• be called obscene words (bitch, slut, whore, etc)by partner
• have sex while on period
• have sex while on period
• roleplay in costumes
• wear stocking and high heels for partner during sex
• listen to romantic music while having sex
• mutually masturbate
• listen to more aggressive (rap/rock) music while having sex
• be rougher in sex towards partner
• have partner be rougher to me in sex
• be fisted by partner
• 69 partner
• swallow partner's cum
• swallow partner's cum
• cum over partner's breasts/neck (pearl necklace)
• cum over partner's face (facial)
• cum over partner's face (facial)
• have partner cum over my face (facial)
• have partner sit on my face as I give oral sex
• sit on partner's face and be given oral sex

It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that in a group of, say, 100 asexuals and 100 sexuals, there'd be any where near as many 'yeses' from asexuals as from sexuals in those answers. 

 

[Telecaster68]

1 minute ago, anisotropic said:

Sometimes I suspect the high rate of "aversion" for asexual folks is largely a normal-range response - for sexual folks as well - when not experiencing attraction.

That would be logical, since asexuals don't feel attracted to anyone.

[ryn2]

3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

This sex-repulsed sexual concept seems to me like one of those 'theoretically-possible-but-never-seen-in-the-real-world' things AVEN loves. We're talking about someone who wants to have sex with other people but finds it all too ewwww to actually do, but somehow isn't asexual? How does that even work?

People don’t choose their phobias/what grosses them out. The difference between sex-repulsed sexuals and sex-repulsed aces?  The former find their situation distressing and may seek treatment whereas the latter often have no reason to care.

 

19 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So 'a higher portion' is actually half of asexuals vs almost no sexuals. 

I’ve not seen research on the percentage of sexuals but, regardless, I agreed that anyone who is sex-repulsed would likely reject the whole list.

 

21 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Then consider the number of non-sex-averse asexuals. By definition they're neutral towards sex, and most tolerate sexual activity, at whatever they feel is the lowest frequency their partner can accept and still be happy in the relationship, at most. 

My point was that the above does not have anything to do with which types of activities they’re willing to do.  Same for sexuals... they clearly want to do something sexual more often than aces do, but that doesn’t mean they universally want to do more types of sexual things.  There are plenty of “prudish” sexuals who a comfortable with a pretty narrow range of activities.

 

25 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Here's the list.

I actually read the entire list, which is much longer than that, before posting.

 

26 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that in a group of, say, 100 asexuals and 100 sexuals, there'd be any where near as many 'yeses' from asexuals as from sexuals in those answers. 

...and I agreed, if that sample included the - 50% by your stats - sex-repulsed aces.  If you take 100 sexuals and 100 aces who are *not* sex-repulsed, I don’t think there’s a correlation.

[Telecaster68]

 

9 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

The former find their situation distressing and may seek treatment whereas the latter often have no reason to care.

... and the former are a tiny proportion of sexual people, and the later are at least half of asexual people. That's why there's a huge skew which makes a comparison pointless.

 

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

If you take 100 sexuals and 100 aces who are *not* sex-repulsed, I don’t think there’s a correlation.

And if you took 100 sexuals with strict religious upbringing and episodes of sexual abuse vs asexuals who weren't sex averse, and no religion or abuse in their background, you could probably skew the correlation even further. The comparison has to be between equal numbers of individuals with only the one factor changing in order to get a robust conclusion.

 

You're cherry picking your sample so you're not  to try to... well I'm not sure what for. To try to say that asexuals aren't intrinsically less sexual?

[ryn2]

No, I’m saying that the range and type of sexual activities someone is willing to participate in - which is what lists like this one are assessing - is a matter of personal preference, not a function of orientation.

 

Is someone who’s fine with “facials” inherently more sexual than someone who isn’t?  Is it more sexual to want to have sex with people watching than it is to have it in privacy?  Is it more sexual to prefer bondage over “missionary only, lights off, in bed,” or vice versa?

[Telecaster68]

6 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

No, I’m saying that the range and type of sexual activities someone is willing to participate in - which is what lists like this one are assessing - is a matter of personal preference, not a function of orientation.

It's not a function, but it seems implausible to me that they're completely unrelated.

 

7 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Is someone who’s fine with “facials” inherently more sexual than someone who isn’t?  Is it more sexual to want to have sex with people watching than it is to have it in privacy?  Is it more sexual to prefer bondage over “missionary only, lights off, in bed,” or vice versa?

Yes, to all of those. They're all about innately enjoying sexual interaction for its own sake, and seeing it as something to be celebrated rather than tolerated. The alternatives - not wanting cum over you, not wanting anyone to see you having sex, preferring lights off missionary, are all indicative of tolerating sex rather than actively, innately enjoying for yourself.

[ryn2]

7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes, to all of those. They're all about innately enjoying sexual interaction for its own sake, and seeing it as something to be celebrated rather than tolerated. The alternatives - not wanting cum over you, not wanting anyone to see you having sex, preferring lights off missionary, are all indicative of tolerating sex rather than actively, innately enjoying for yourself.

Sexuals on here, what do you think?  By this standard I’m actually more sexual than a full 100% of my sex partners, all of whom identify as sexual and all but one of whom went on to have one or more sexual relationships after me.  I don’t personally get the sense that people who truly enjoy sex all want to do it in a public setting, for example.

[Telecaster68]

If you'd rather have sex in public setting, get a facial, or do it with the lights on in acrobatic positions, than not have sex at all, you're not asexual.

[ryn2]

Again, that wasn’t my point.

 

Obviously, perfect world, aces want less/no sex.  No one is arguing that.

 

The quiz is about what you are willing to do.  Different people are willing to do different things, and may have preferences for one thing over another.  It’s not asking you to compare each thing to “reading a book” or “dinner at a fancy restaurant” or whatever nonsexual activities you enjoy.

 

I don’t personally agree that someone who is kinkier is more sexual than someone who is vanilla, although it seems you do.  I know people who adore gentle, sweet, vanilla PIV and want to do it with their partners at every opportunity, and I don’t think the fact that they’re put off by doing it where others can see makes them less sexual than they could be.  Likewise, some people consider facials degrading; I don’t think they’re enjoying sex on its own merits less than people who find them hot and fun.

[Telecaster68]

It's 'willing' vs 'wanting'. 

 

Asexuals might be willing to do all manner of sexual things, but left to themselves, they wouldn't want to.

[InProgress]

6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's 'willing' vs 'wanting'. 

 

Asexuals might be willing to do all manner of sexual things, but left to themselves, they wouldn't want to.

Excellent point.

 

And that's it. There is a huge difference for the sexual between having a partner willing to have sex with them, whatever the actual activity is, versus a partner who wants to have sex with them. I, personally, struggle with the idea that my husband may have to will himself into having sex with me. We still haven't fully determined to what degree that's the case, but for someone who wants to feel wanted, it's meant a large gaping hole for a long, long time, regardless of the activities we've chosen to do.

[ryn2]

My original point, which keeps getting passed over, is that individuals regardless of orientation have different likes and dislikes in terms of sexual activities.  I don’t think the types of sexual activities individuals prefer over other sexual activities fall on a sliding scale from ace to highly sexual.  People should ask their partners and not assume.

 

In terms of will v. want, that’s why I said - way up the thread - I personally prefer want/will/won’t over yes/maybe/no as a scale.  Both yes and maybe can be either want or will so, for people who wish to distinguish between what their partners are willing to do and what their partners actively want to do, yes/maybe/no doesn’t get them there.

[Telecaster68]

But wanting any sexual activity vs not wanting any sort of sexual activity will always, by definition, be the difference between sexuals and asexuals. Given this, it's bizarre to say that asexuals are just as likely to want kink X as sexuals. Some asexuals might tolerate it more than others, but left to themselves, they don't want it. If they did, they wouldn't be asexual.

 

I agree that want/will/won't is better when it's a sexual/asexual mixed relationship, because for two sexuals, there's always a chance that a 'maybe' could turn into a keen 'yes' (like a want). This will never happen with an asexual partner.

[ryn2]

If you take two people who are both equally willing to engage in XYZ, and one is sexual and the other ace, the sexual one will doubtless desire (want) it more.

 

That doesn’t mean every sexual (or potentially even most sexuals) is (are) willing to engage in more specific sexual activities than every non-sex-repulsed ace, or that sexual activities fall on a uniformly-agreed-upon scale from “generally tolerated” up to “only for those with the highest libidos.”

[ryn2]

If it’s already settled that the ace isn’t willing to engage in any sort of sexual activity at all, or that the sexual doesn’t wish to engage in any sexual activity the ace doesn’t intrinsically want on its own merits, there isn’t any point in taking a quiz like this to begin with, no?

[ryn2]

15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

want/will/won't is better when it's a sexual/asexual mixed relationship

 

15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

there's always a chance that a 'maybe' could turn into a keen 'yes' (like a want). This will never happen with an asexual partner.

I agree with both of these statements on their own, but I don’t think the former is true because of the latter.  It’s more that want/will/won’t gives a clearer picture of how each partner really feels about each item.

 

Want/will/won’t is probably more helpful for sexual/sexual relationships too, for the same reason.  There’s just less room for misunderstanding.

[Telecaster68]

Quote

 

If it’s already settled that the ace isn’t willing to engage in any sort of sexual activity at all, or that the sexual doesn’t wish to engage in any sexual activity the ace doesn’t intrinsically want on its own merits, there isn’t any point in taking a quiz like this to begin with, no?

 

That wasn't what we were talking about though.

 

Your contention was that there's probably no inherent difference between sexuals and asexuals in the type of Mojo-type activities they would tick a yes/maybe box to, and therefore orientation wasn't a factor in kinkiness. I was saying that since asexuals by definition don't intrinsically want any sexual activity, they can't intrinsically want any specific sexual kinks, so orientation is a factor in kinkiness. They might be willing to do them, but they don't want to do them in the same way.

[Telecaster68]

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

 want/will/won’t gives a clearer picture of how each partner really feels about each item.

It does, but the possibility of discovering you like something is kind of implicit between sexuals, which I think is why Mojo doesn't deal with it.

[ryn2]

3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

That wasn't what we were talking about though.

 

Your contention was that there's probably no inherent difference between sexuals and asexuals in the type of Mojo-type activities they would tick a yes/maybe box to, and therefore orientation wasn't a factor in kinkiness. I was saying that since asexuals by definition don't intrinsically want any sexual activity, they can't intrinsically want any specific sexual kinks, so orientation is a factor in kinkiness. They might be willing to do them, but they don't want to do them in the same way.

These two contentions aren’t opposing, let alone mutually exclusive.

 

I was careful to use willing and prefer throughout.

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It does, but the possibility of discovering you like something is kind of implicit between sexuals, which I think is why Mojo doesn't deal with it.

The possibility of liking some things better than others exists for everyone willing to engage in sexual activities at all.

[Telecaster68]

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

These two contentions aren’t opposing, let alone mutually exclusive.

 

I was careful to use willing and prefer throughout.

No, but they're different, and asexuals, by definition, don't want any kind of sex. No asexuals want any of those kinks. Some sexuals want some of them. Therein the orientation-based difference.

[ryn2]

5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

they can't intrinsically want any specific sexual kinks, so orientation is a factor in kinkiness. 

This is off-topic, but kink isn’t universally sexual.

[Telecaster68]

Just now, ryn2 said:

This is off-topic, but kink isn’t universally sexual.

The mojo ones are.

[ryn2]

Just now, Telecaster68 said:

The mojo ones are.

Not really.

[Telecaster68]

Spoiler

 

• have longer teasing and foreplay sessions with partner
• give partner a sensual massage
• have partner give me a sensual massage
• take pictures of partner
• have pictures taken by partner
• take pictures of us having sex
• strip or give a lap dance to partner
• have partner strip or give me a lap dance
• film ourselves having sex
• use mirrors while having sex
• wake partner up with sex or oral sex
• be woken up with sex or oral sex by partner
• watch partner masturbate
• be watched by partner while I masturbate
• shave partner
• be shaven by partner
• shave each other
• watch porn together
• show partner how I like something from porn scene
• be shown what partner likes from porn
• thrust my penis between partner's breasts
• be more vocal towards partner during sex
• have partner be more vocal
• talk dirtier to partner
• have partner talk dirtier to me
• call partner obscene words (bitch, slut, whore, etc)
• be called obscene words (bitch, slut, whore, etc)by partner
• have sex while on period
• have sex while on period
• roleplay in costumes
• wear stocking and high heels for partner during sex
• listen to romantic music while having sex
• mutually masturbate
• listen to more aggressive (rap/rock) music while having sex
• be rougher in sex towards partner
• have partner be rougher to me in sex
• be fisted by partner
• 69 partner
• swallow partner's cum
• swallow partner's cum
• cum over partner's breasts/neck (pearl necklace)
• cum over partner's face (facial)
• cum over partner's face (facial)
• have partner cum over my face (facial)
• have partner sit on my face as I give oral sex
• sit on partner's face and be given oral sex

 

Which of those aren't sexual?

 

The only one that could possibly be not sexual is the massage, and in context, it clearly is sexual. It's not about aching relaxing muscles...

[ryn2]

3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

No, but they're different, and asexuals, by definition, don't want any kind of sex. No asexuals want any of those kinks. Some sexuals want some of them. Therein the orientation-based difference.

The original discussion was about types of activities and libido.  Once it turned to orientation I was specifically speaking to willingness, not want.  E.g., an ace respondent could be willing to do most things on the list whereas as a

sexual person might only be willing to do a few.

 

Agreed that only the sexual person is going to intrinsically want to do any of them.

[ryn2]

Just now, Telecaster68 said:

  Hide contents

 

• have longer teasing and foreplay sessions with partner
• give partner a sensual massage
• have partner give me a sensual massage
• take pictures of partner
• have pictures taken by partner
• take pictures of us having sex
• strip or give a lap dance to partner
• have partner strip or give me a lap dance
• film ourselves having sex
• use mirrors while having sex
• wake partner up with sex or oral sex
• be woken up with sex or oral sex by partner
• watch partner masturbate
• be watched by partner while I masturbate
• shave partner
• be shaven by partner
• shave each other
• watch porn together
• show partner how I like something from porn scene
• be shown what partner likes from porn
• thrust my penis between partner's breasts
• be more vocal towards partner during sex
• have partner be more vocal
• talk dirtier to partner
• have partner talk dirtier to me
• call partner obscene words (bitch, slut, whore, etc)
• be called obscene words (bitch, slut, whore, etc)by partner
• have sex while on period
• have sex while on period
• roleplay in costumes
• wear stocking and high heels for partner during sex
• listen to romantic music while having sex
• mutually masturbate
• listen to more aggressive (rap/rock) music while having sex
• be rougher in sex towards partner
• have partner be rougher to me in sex
• be fisted by partner
• 69 partner
• swallow partner's cum
• swallow partner's cum
• cum over partner's breasts/neck (pearl necklace)
• cum over partner's face (facial)
• cum over partner's face (facial)
• have partner cum over my face (facial)
• have partner sit on my face as I give oral sex
• sit on partner's face and be given oral sex

 

Which of those aren't sexual?

 

The only one that could possibly be not sexual is the massage, and in context, it clearly is sexual. It's not about aching relaxing muscles...

That’s not the kink portion of the list.