What’s fair in an open relationship?

[Stroodle]

Hey all, first time posting but I’m about to marry my asexual fiancé,

 

I’ve been with my asexual guy for over 6 years now and everything has been wonderful except for our lack of sex. We cuddle a ton and I wouldn’t change that at all but sometimes I just need to go to pound town (please excuse the vulgarity, but I’m not asexual). I love him to pieces and want to have him forever. That being said, on occasion, I want to travel to pound town. We briefly discussed doing an open thing in May this year but he said he didn’t realize how much I wanted to have sex and if having an open relationship were fair, he’d be with someone sexually too, but if that’s they case, we should just have sex with each other. I asked if we could have sex in May and it’s almost August now and I’m still waiting. It’s important to add that we haven’t had sex in 2 years now.

 

 I genuinely could do an anonymous sex thing and not stray emotionally. I KNOW how amazing I have it with my guy and am over the moon happy with him and never want us to ever, ever, EVER be apart, I just miss the physical act of sex. I feel awful wanting sex with anyone else but I don’t want to ask for sex every time I want it. That takes some of the fun out of it and especially bc I know he’s just acting like he’s into it for my own enjoyment, which gets me into my own head about it and then I can’t enjoy it.

 

I don’t want to be in an open relegationship but I just really missed going to pound town sometimes. 

 

help

[Grimalkin]

He's being unfair to you. It's a tale as old as time.

 

"I'm not having my sexual needs met, how about an open relationship?"

"Well if you get to sleep around, I get to sleep around!"

"But you don't like sex."

"Well maybe I do. Maybe we should keep our relationship closed and have sex together!"

"That's perfectly fine by me."

"Good!"

Narrator: "Sex never happened."

 

The thing is, it's a perfectly valid thing to feel like you want to keep your partner to yourself. Some people can't deal with open relationships. Everybody knows where he's coming from. And to an asexual, it can hurt knowing that somebody's "so obsessed" with sex that they can't just "deal" with having none. But asexual are famous for dismissing the importance of physical intimacy to allosexual people, because "if I don't need it, why do they?"

 

But of course sexual compatibility is important in a relationship. Of course it is. SO BEFORE YOU MARRY HIM, you need to sort this out. This is the kind of thing where once you're married, he'll most likely just assume the matter is closed. You need to talk it out now. Be firm that you need sex. Ask how best to go about doing this. Don't let him dismiss sex as unnecessary or shame you for wanting it.

 

It's hard, but if he doesn't budge on this issue, or tries to insist that he can keep you satisfied himself with his twice yearly "I'm pretending for your enjoyment" sex, then you guys may not be compatible in this area. And it's just one area, but it's a big one.

[Zsareph]

So he's asexual and isn't having sex with you but, if you were having sex with others, he would want to have sex with others as well .......but he's not having sex with you because he's asexual......

 

 

 

I am confused.

I think you two need to talk again, because his logic as you've described it here makes absolutely no sense. Does he want to have sex or not? Why would he want to be sexual with others in a hypothetical open relationship but not in an already established, closed relationship with you? If he's willing to have sex with other people, is he willing to compromise with you? If that's the case then why isn't he?

[Traveler40]

46 minutes ago, Zsareph said:

A- If he's willing to have sex with other people,

 

B - is he willing to compromise with you?

 

C - If that's the case then why isn't he?

A) He’s bluffing

B) Perhaps, but they agreed to have sex in May and it’s almost August....

C) He’s asexual

 

See @Grimalkin’s response above.  It’s excellent.  

 

As an aside, something said there tripped my memory and shocked me.  I’d forgotten the shaming!  Yes, I recall being deep down in the hole and expressing my needs (for the millionth time) in a basic, clear and painful way.  The result was that my husband feigned shock and said, “Well, you’re repressing this need, I hear you and that shouldn’t be!  Don’t be afraid to show me what you need.  I am here.”  So, I did what we agreed to and opened up.  I came on to him for about a week.  Oh, the shaming. It still hurts to think about it.  Perhaps I’d repressed that, but I’d forgotten the situation and associated pain until reading that bit above.  Ouch!

 

Anyhow, I digress and just felt compelled to make those three points above.  What @Grimalkin said....agreed!  

 

Hammer all this out before you walk down the aisle. That’s all the “pounding” you truly need prenuptial IMHO.  Best of luck!

[Stroodle]

First off, I’m so grateful you folks took the time to respond. 

 

It’s really validating to hear that he isn’t being fair to me (though I know it’s unintentional). I wish my sexuality is something I could turn off. It’s certainly diminished over the years but it’s not gone entirely. 

 

If we *did* open our relationship up, what would be fair for him to do with other people?  I don’t want him to feel hurt or that it’s unfair for him. 

[anisotrophic]

I wish I could say I agree with @Grimalkin and @Traveler40 but I'm really more like @Zsareph here! I'm confused.

 

I mean, I entirely agree with "you shouldn't get married, don't further entangle yourself without working this out", but...

 

13 hours ago, Stroodle said:

I asked if we could have sex in May and it’s almost August now and I’m still waiting. It’s important to add that we haven’t had sex in 2 years now.

Are you communicating about how to accomplish this? If he's ace, I don't think an abstract "sex would be nice" statement made once a couple months ago is going cut it. I don't think I have enough information here. I can't tell if there's more going on here that you're not telling us.

 

How do you want it to happen? How would he want it to happen? Have you discussed this? Does he want you to initiate? Schedule it? Do you want him to initiate?

 

Are you unable to communicate on these issues? Is he being defensive and/or avoidant about communicating? (That's a problem.)

 

Does he want to initiate himself -- or you want him to -- and it's not happening? (Also a problem.)

 

Does he prefer you to initiate, and you're having trouble with it? (Another type of problem.)

 

Are you not sure where to start? Are you no longer experiencing sexual attraction to him? (Two years is a long time!)

 

Or, are you initiating and he's turning you down? (A different variety of problem. Also, if so: is he turning you down in a good way, or a bad way?)

 

If so, is he willing to schedule it instead? Is that not appealing -- or did you try it and it didn't work? (Is he repulsed by sex? Do you need more than he can perform? Yet more potential problems.)

 

It's hard for me to imagine you haven't experienced at least some of the above. There's nothing wrong with open relationships; my partner and I thought about it. But I think it's a bad idea if there hasn't been a sufficient exploration of this stuff with him -- or if there has been, and it's uncovered other issues -- beyond your differing orientations (e.g. inability/refusal to communicate and care about each other's needs) -- that spell trouble for the future.

[ryn2]

That’s a really helpful breakdown, @anisotropic.  Thanks!

[Stroodle]

24 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

Are you communicating about how to accomplish this? If he's ace, I don't think an abstract "sex would be nice" statement made once a couple months ago is going cut it....

 

How do you want it to happen? How would he want it to happen? Have you discussed this? Does he want you to initiate? Schedule it? Do you want him to initiate?

 

Are you unable to communicate on these issues? Is he being defensive and/or avoidant about communicating? (That's a problem.)

 

Does he want to initiate himself -- or you want him to -- and it's not happening? (Also a problem.)

 

Does he prefer you to initiate, and you're having trouble with it? (Another type of problem.)

 

Are you initiating and he's turning you down? (A different variety of problem. Also, if so: is he turning you down in a good way, or a bad way?)

 

If so, is he willing to schedule it instead? Is that not appealing -- or did you try it and it didn't work? (Is he repulsed by sex? Do you need more than he can perform? Yet more potential problems.)

 

If not, are you not sure where to start? Are you no longer experiencing sexual attraction to him? (Two years is a long time!)...

Good question(s)! Until May, I realized I had been walking on eggshells around him, even though he’s never created an environment where I felt as though I couldn’t be totally open and honest with him. Through my own therapy, I realized I rarely said 100% of how I felt. I would always try to make my feelings easier for the other person to hear. I had to walk on eggshells around my dad and I carried that into my adult life. I’ve been working on communicating what I need since. 

 

In my relationship, we talk about everything though sex is something we don’t talk about quite as often, though we do talk about it and try to come up with solutions. We had been sleeping together a bit when we first started dating, but after moving in together, I made a move, he rejected it and I felt so rejected I decided I’d let him make the first move when he was ready on his own terms. This was about 6 years ago.

 

One thing to mention is that when we do have sex, sometimes his penis becomes so sensitive that it’s too much and he needs to stop. This typically happens a few minutes into starting to have sex.

 

We’ve talked about ways we could have sex together and possibly getting toys or something but I’m uncomfortable having to ask for sex every time I want it. I want to be desired and pursued sometimes. I’ve told him this. We agreed that I’d tell him when I wanted to have sex and he’d take some time to prepare himself to do it. If I ask for what I want and he accommodates, I know he’s just doing it for me but I wish he’d get into it as well.

 

Oh! And we are attracted to each other. I frequently tell him how hot/handsome he is. He always grabs my boobs, etc. He’ll get boners from me but they go away soon after.

[Stroodle]

He’s not gay or trans and has had his testosterone levels tested (they’re on the lower end but not low enough that he’d need to take supplements).

 

^these are questions friends have asked when I try to talk about this issue with them.

[ryn2]

5 minutes ago, Stroodle said:

I made a move, he rejected it and I felt so rejected I decided I’d let him make the first move when he was ready on his own terms. This was about 6 years ago.

This is very similar to what happened in my relationship.  Apparently (I say this because I don’t remember the incident at all) I rejected my (sexual) partner and he vowed never to ask again.

 

Because I am somewhere on the grey/freysexual part of the spectrum, that has failed spectacularly because I basically (took a long time to notice he’d stopped asking, and then) filed the change away under “huh, that’s odd, but whatever.”

[Grimalkin]

6 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

This is very similar to what happened in my relationship.  Apparently (I say this because I don’t remember the incident at all) I rejected my (sexual) partner and he vowed never to ask again.

 

Because I am somewhere on the grey/freysexual part of the spectrum, that has failed spectacularly because I basically (took a long time to notice he’d stopped asking, and then) filed the change away under “huh, that’s odd, but whatever.”

This is why this is the biggest mistake an allosexual person can make in a relationship like this.

 

Of course it hurts to be rejected once, let alone repeatedly. It hurts so much. And this kind of thing happens, where the allosexual partner feels so neglected and alone that they just say "Fine, I'll just stop and see if they ever initiate," like it's some kind of test of love. Like if the asexual partner really cared, they would notice.

 

But asexual people don't notice. We don't really think about sex. And so the allosexual person suffers in silence, sometimes for years, resentment building because their partner just doesn't seem to care. And meanwhile the asexual person is showing love in other ways, but it isn't enough.

 

Nobody's wrong, but it's shitty. It's why communication needs to be kept open all the time. And it's why, if you've talked and talked and talked and nothing has worked, the relationship may be over.

[Stroodle]

5 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

Nobody's wrong, but it's shitty. It's why communication needs to be kept open all the time. And it's why, if you've talked and talked and talked and nothing has worked, the relationship may be over.

I’ve gotta admit, after reading this, I just cried and cried and typed this through tears. I don’t want my relationship to over. He’s my best friend and my everything. I love being with him. I love laughing with him. I love cuddling with him and kissing him. I love him when he’s stinky. I love his brain. We’re so freaking compatible EVERYWHERE in our relationship. Sex issues aside, he’s made me the happiest person alive. I love the life we’ve built together and would do anything to stay with him. I love waking up to him and going to sleep with him. I HATE that I ever want to have sex. That’s the only issue we have. I hate this so much. 

[Grimalkin]

1 minute ago, Stroodle said:

I’ve gotta admit, after reading this, I just cried and cried and typed this through tears. I don’t want my relationship to over. He’s my best friend and my everything. I love being with him. I love laughing with him. I love cuddling with him and kissing him. I love him when he’s stinky. I love his brain. We’re so freaking compatible EVERYWHERE in our relationship. Sex issues aside, he’s made me the happiest person alive. I love the life we’ve built together and would do anything to stay with him. I love waking up to him and going to sleep with him. I HATE that I ever want to have sex. That’s the only issue we have. I hate this so much. 

I really am sorry. I felt the same way about my last relationship. We were so, so good together. I could see settling down with him and buying a sweet little house and all that jazz. But I also knew I didn't like sex, and I knew I never wanted it. We still had sex semi-regularly, but it was wearing on me, and I could tell that if we stayed together I would start to feel pressured and resentful, and he would start to feel neglected.

 

I broke up with him for his own good, so that he could find someone with the kind of sexual energy he deserved. And it was so incredibly hard. It still hurts, but I'm getting better.

 

It's too easy for asexual people to dismiss the importance of sexual compatibility in a relationship. "It's just one aspect!" they say. But it's such a big one. And years down the line, it will be hard to remember why you fell in love in the first place when your relationship becomes a tug-of-war of "It feels like you only want me for my body" and "I'm so hurt that I'm always rejected."

[ryn2]

30 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

And this kind of thing happens, where the allosexual partner feels so neglected and alone that they just say "Fine, I'll just stop and see if they ever initiate," like it's some kind of test of love. Like if the asexual partner really cared, they would notice.

The sucky part here is that ages later the sexual partner thinks it’s a done deal - the test of love has revealed there is none - whereas the grey/ace/whatever partner doesn’t even realize anything is going on.  It leaves a huge mismatch in processing, grieving, etc.

[anisotrophic]

@Stroodle I feel like there's potential good news here! Here's my optimistic two cents...

It sounds like your communication & efforts on this front could be a lot better (you = plural), so there's a lot of potential for improvement. And so far from what you wrote it hasn't sounded like there's brick wall. And a silver lining, if it amuses you: marriage is compromise, how good to be confronting that at the outset! (But if you can postpone a wedding, I'd recommend it. If not, so be it - but you do try to avoid/postpone any additional entanglements like finances or children!)

 

I'd recommend digging in to communicating. Find out how he thinks about sex (or doesn't think about it, as the case might be). You might find something revelatory about him. (I had no idea how little desire my partner was experiencing.) He might find something revelatory about you. (My partner hadn't realized how much others do experience desire, and how much I was experiencing it.) I think it needs to be that neither feel shame with each other about your desires -- or lack thereof -- orientations are so unchangeable.

 

But there is compromise.

 

For you: there's a good chance you'll have to accept that you will always have to ask. That sex might only be when/what you request (and he's available for), directed by you, and that you will never be desired and pursued by him. This might be really hard. I think it may have contributed to my shift in gender identity. I used to spend hours every day struggling to accept this. Nearly half a year later, I'm down to being really sad 1-2 days every 2-3 weeks. (And if he is abstractly OK with an open relationship, I think simply knowing that's available, in the more distant future -- without doing it -- can help a lot to temper the despair, less of a "trapped" feeling.)

 

For him: He said he's abstractly interested in having sex. Great. He'll have to work out what he can do -- what sex acts he finds pleasurable enough to be doing with you. Communication is so important here. Consent is tricky -- I think, during the act, the ace (or less sexual partner) can be especially prone to agreeing to things they're actually uncomfortable with (because they want to make their partner happy). The sexual partner may sense that, and become overly cautious (and yet that's fair, we don't want to hurt the one we love!). "Yes/no/maybe" sex act checklists can be very helpful, many on AVEN recommend them.  

When I'm feeling upbeat about this, one mindset I have is -- it's a bit like having a private prostitute? Except I only have to pay in the coin of love and respect.  Once I got my list of available items in stock and "respectful requesting" technique down, it's like I get to go shopping! I want you to do this! That! Please? (Followed by an enormous thank you that may involve chores.)

No promises, but if you're both willing to try to adapt, I think it's worth trying. It might be a lot of pain, but if you do find it in yourselves to adapt to each other in this respect, you might find yourselves in a better place than where you started -- and all the more reason to want to be together indefinitely. Fingers crossed for you!

[Guest]

Well...

 

I can see why he'd feel it's unfair. You're going outside the relationship for a need, he's not allowed cause the need is specifically sex and he doesn't like sex. So, it's very one sided. A lot of times the "fair" trade ends up being the sexual can have outside sex partners, the asexual can go have cuddle buddies or sensual partners if they want (massages, cuddling, stroking, whatever). If he's a person that usually wants a "fair trade" then you might need to find something to open up on his end to get him to feel like he's not just giving up something and getting nothing. Some people do get stuck on tit-for-tat to the letter. 

 

Alternatively, he may actually want sex sometimes... just rarely. If you're going off to have sex with others, he may feel he should be allowed to do it too, if he likes it some times, just at a lower frequency than you desire. Which, to be fair, if the difference is you like higher frequency then yeah it would make sense to open it up both ways. Maybe he'd like variety if you are getting that. 

 

As for always having to initiate - that doesn't really mean your partner doesn't *want* to do something. My partner is submissive in nature, so hardly ever initiates, but does want things. 

 

Basically, what is "fair" in open relationships is whatever the couple feels is fair. If either side is feeling cheated, it's not gonna work. 

[Telecaster68]

But he doesn't want to have sex with anyone. Nobody's saying 'you can't do this thing you want to do, but I can'. I can completely understand why asexuals don't want to their partners doing something intimate with someone else, but that isn't an imbalance; it's just something they don't want. I'd agree to it be open for both partners, but then if he did decide he wanted sex with someone else, it would show he's not in fact asexual, and I'd have some very, very serious questions about wtf was going on. 

[anisotrophic]

My partner was also "so I can too, right?" on the topic of open-as-solution. 😂

 

In his case, he didn't seem to actually want anything other than the abstract permission, so that it felt fair. 🙄

 

Maybe @Stroodle goes there eventually, but given the context here, I suspect it's ideal to first try to improve sexuality with each other.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But he doesn't want to have sex with anyone. Nobody's saying 'you can't do this thing you want to do, but I can'. I can completely understand why asexuals don't want to their partners doing something intimate with someone else, but that isn't an imbalance; it's just something they don't want. I'd agree to it be open for both partners, but then if he did decide he wanted sex with someone else, it would show he's not in fact asexual, and I'd have some very, very serious questions about wtf was going on. 

But, it is saying "I can be physically intimate with other people, but you can't" - if, I am reading the OP correctly, in that any romantic activities or intimate things that might produce feelings are involved it's a no go - meaning... he's expected to be 100% monogamous, in all aspects, physical and emotional and his partner is allowed to go do this ultimately intimate thing that, lets face it, is likely to produce feelings eventually (very few open relationships stay just open, a lot end up poly, because FWB arrangements often end up messy) with other people. It will feel lopsided, because he's then bound by rules of monogamy completely and his partner isn't. 

 

And yeah as anisotropic says.. it could just be wanting permission in the sense of if I want I can. Rather than ever acting on it, just knowing the same rules apply to both partners, rather than one partner follows monogamous rules and the other follows non-monogamous rules. 

[Telecaster68]

But he is getting cuddling needs met within the relationship, so it sounds like having an open relationship for cuddles would be purely for the sake of principle in what seems to me a fairly petty way. I really don't see how anything is unbalanced against the asexual here. 

[SG100084]

Hey Tele..saw your tag a few times in posts when I joined and it inspired mine.

We just agreed that if ever my wife gets it on with another man, that would be the poison arrow and I'm out. We can cuddle and snuggle and I won't pursue it beyond that. And the sexy stuff I can do with other women.
I said if she wanted to get it on with a woman it'd be cool. She said she was more interested in gardening.

 

[SG100084]

One day I bet there will be a  Tinder equivalent for sexual partners of ACE people to hook up without feeling bad about it.

[Telecaster68]

So not, er, lady gardening then... 

 

I've actually never played an SG. I hear they're really nice though. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But he is getting cuddling needs met within the relationship, so it sounds like having an open relationship for cuddles would be purely for the sake of principle in what seems to me a fairly petty way. I really don't see how anything is unbalanced against the asexual here. 

The emotional need of monogamy is being given up, but only on his side, would be the imbalance - if indeed all needs are being met by the sexual. Plus, it would be a power imbalance, of sorts... "this is OK for you, but not me". That alone can do significant damage to the self-image of a person within a relationship, which is why often just the permission is all that is wanted if the other partner isn't into the idea of non-monogamy for themselves but is OK opening up. Sort of like the partner with non-monogamy rules is "more than" the other, since they have more freedom within the relationship. Can lead to feelings of inferiority and unfairness. Which, leads to resentment long-term.

 

But, he also could have needs that aren't being met by his partner. Without discussing it, one can't know. I had to give up almost all my physical intimacy needs when I was with my ex, cause the least little thing would lead to his sexual frustration. And even if he did try to cuddle, it was like if an ace tried to give sex but was sighing and rolling their eyes and counting the seconds til it was over... not really fulfilling, to say the least. 

 

And if he is just a person with unique and limited sexual needs, he may have sexual needs that aren't being met and not completely ace... (we aren't hearing from him, so not sure if he IDs as ace, grey, demi, etc and not sure if he has any desires himself). And maybe those needs can't be met with a fully sexual partner, because they would want PiV or something from it. I have sexual desires, for example, but I couldn't be satisfied with a fully sexual partner... they'd want more than I did. Which would 100% ruin it for me, cause I'd have to give something I hate in return for something I want and I'd just rather not do anything at that point. 

 

Without discussing with him why he wants the open to be two way, it's hard to know what the motivation is. It could be a lot of things. But, if he feels it's unfair, it won't work out. Cause he'll never be happy with his partner seeking their needs elsewhere. 

[anisotrophic]

29 minutes ago, Serran said:

it would be a power imbalance, of sorts... "this is OK for you, but not me". That alone can do significant damage to the self-image of a person within a relationship, which is why often just the permission is all that is wanted if the other partner isn't into the idea of non-monogamy for themselves but is OK opening up. Sort of like the partner with non-monogamy rules is "more than" the other, since they have more freedom within the relationship. Can lead to feelings of inferiority and unfairness. Which, leads to resentment long-term.

yeah, agreed. And now that I've adapted and feel happy, I'm feeling pretty chill with saying "yes, you also have permission". Which is to say, maybe we're back to where we were when dating over a dozen years ago, when we both had permission... but it was almost entirely hypothetical, we barely bothered. Sometimes it's nice to just feel like the option is there.

As for whether or why an ace would exercise it -- well, I should say, he did exercise it once too!

Someone took a serious fancy to him, I assured him it was okay, so he went along with it. (Which is why I wouldn't say he's demi, just indifferent.) In retrospect we think it didn't turn out well because... well... he was just going along with it? (AIUI it ended up being an abortive attempt, and she cried, and he comforted her.) If it ever happened again, I'm sure he'd warn the prospective partner.

[uhtred]

6 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

This is why this is the biggest mistake an allosexual person can make in a relationship like this.

 

Of course it hurts to be rejected once, let alone repeatedly. It hurts so much. And this kind of thing happens, where the allosexual partner feels so neglected and alone that they just say "Fine, I'll just stop and see if they ever initiate," like it's some kind of test of love. Like if the asexual partner really cared, they would notice.

 

But asexual people don't notice. We don't really think about sex. And so the allosexual person suffers in silence, sometimes for years, resentment building because their partner just doesn't seem to care. And meanwhile the asexual person is showing love in other ways, but it isn't enough.

 

Nobody's wrong, but it's shitty. It's why communication needs to be kept open all the time. And it's why, if you've talked and talked and talked and nothing has worked, the relationship may be over.

The problem is that being rejected for sex hurts. It feels like being told "I don't love you". Each rejection to me feels like being slapped in the face.   Eventually the sexual person gets tired of the pain and stops asking.

 

Often it doesn't matter anyway.  My near asexual wife and I have some sort of sexual interaction every couple of weeks  (which is far better than some), but I cannot remember a time when we have had sex when I asked.  Not in the last couple of years at least.  So I've lost nothing by no longer asking.   Its just that now she thinks life is great while I'm unhappy, rather than us both being unhappy. 

 

 

[uhtred]

6 hours ago, Stroodle said:

I’ve gotta admit, after reading this, I just cried and cried and typed this through tears. I don’t want my relationship to over. He’s my best friend and my everything. I love being with him. I love laughing with him. I love cuddling with him and kissing him. I love him when he’s stinky. I love his brain. We’re so freaking compatible EVERYWHERE in our relationship. Sex issues aside, he’s made me the happiest person alive. I love the life we’ve built together and would do anything to stay with him. I love waking up to him and going to sleep with him. I HATE that I ever want to have sex. That’s the only issue we have. I hate this so much. 

This is hard.  I've been in a badly mismatched relationship with a woman I love for 30 years now.  It doesn't get better. 

 

In the end all you can do is what you can do.   I think it is very unlikely he will every want more sex.  Don't waste time trying to solve that problem, it won't happen. 

 

Leave, Cheat, Live like a Nun.   All of those suck, but they are your options.

 

Maybe "cheat" can become "open marriage", but I think he was bluffing.   For him to say that if you get sex outside, he gets to have sex outside, but then never want it is not a real offer.  In any case you are not turning him down, you are available to him for sex - so there is no excuse for him wanting sex outside of the marriage - and he doesn't really. 

 

 

He is asexual and likely doesn't understand how much he is hurting  you.  Based on decades of trying, nothing you can say will convince him of what it is like for you.  (if he does know, then he is being terribly selfish). 

 

I don't really recommend sex outside of the marriage (open or cheating) because I think you will find out how wonderful it is to be intimate with someone, and your marriage will end anyway. 

 

 

You have my sympathy, but little useful advice. 

 

 

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, uhtred said:

The problem is that being rejected for sex hurts. It feels like being told "I don't love you". Each rejection to me feels like being slapped in the face.   Eventually the sexual person gets tired of the pain and stops asking.

The point’s not so much “keep on asking in the face of endless rejection”; it’s to speak up when things reach that place, rather than assuming the cause (partner doesn’t love me) or setting it up as a silent test (if partner loved me they will initiate now that I have stopped).

 

There’s no hope of things improving in any way without discussion.  There may not be a workable solution regardless but there definitely won’t be one with a one-sided, silent retreat into “huh, looks like this relationship is over.”

[uhtred]

3 hours ago, ryn2 said:

The point’s not so much “keep on asking in the face of endless rejection”; it’s to speak up when things reach that place, rather than assuming the cause (partner doesn’t love me) or setting it up as a silent test (if partner loved me they will initiate now that I have stopped).

 

There’s no hope of things improving in any way without discussion.  There may not be a workable solution regardless but there definitely won’t be one with a one-sided, silent retreat into “huh, looks like this relationship is over.”

Peoples experience may vary.  Mine has been that asking   never gets a yes.  Discussing the issue gently results in her agreeing that things should change, but without any change happening.  Discussing more emphatically results in her getting upset, agreeing that things should change, but with only a very short term change then return to normal. 

 

Generally asexuals do not want more sex, and discussions are unlikely to change that.  Sexuals are not happy without sex and discussions are unlikely to change that either. 

 

Retreating into silence lets one person be happy.  Bringing it up repeatedly doesn't improve things and results in both being unhappy.   (Because it is some form of "i am unhappy because you don't want sex with me", when for the asexual, not wanting sex is just the way that they are, and not something they can change. )  If someone chooses to stay in a mismatched relationship, I don't think it helps to keep reminding the partner of the problem. 

 

Not saying its wrong to try - just that I don't think it will help. 

[ryn2]

17 hours ago, uhtred said:

If someone chooses to stay in a mismatched relationship, I don't think it helps to keep reminding the partner of the problem. 

I can definitely see getting to here after both parties have agreed to stay in a mixed relationship, although with any compromise it’s probably worth setting a periodic checkin timeframe where both parties can confirm the compromise (whatever it is) is still working.

 

Just pushing it under the rug until it explodes, with zero discussion ever, was what I was talking about... never mentioning that it’s a problem, never confirming assumptions, never laying wants or needs out for one another, etc.  That just leaves one person feeling vaguely concerned (and then later misled) while the other feels more and more resentment.