Giwreh Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now! I had a small discussion with a pal on a different social site, who sent me this opinion : " Women must follow their husbands, so that is respect." ... I disagree 199% ... and, I'm male, that pal is female... How can, still in 21st century, woman degrade themselves willingly to the 2nd grade "obey-&-follow" status from the dark ages ? (Extra information, that pal is Filipino) The most fundamental topic in genderdiscussions, is the female <> male (un)equality thing. It's about 99% of the world, including disastrous religious bases for gender unequality, legal bases for gender unequality, aggression induced bases for gender unequality... The genderdysforia thing is futile as a problem, within the massive frame of continuing worldwide schism between male & female... I'm a very motivated feminist (the combat for equality thing, which is still not there..) , due to the fact I'm a life-long humanist. How is everyone looking at it ? ... (It's the thought of the day) Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 you know people still put on constrictive leather horse costumes for their partners, yes even in this day and age. I mean people still go to this one city in france because that is the romantic place to go. there's the whole world, but these folks are forced to go to this city because it has that one radio tower in it. and that's what makes things romantic. enforcing freedom is faciscim. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Giwreh said: (Extra information, that pal is Filipino) I think this changes the context of your post a bit. A very small minority still think this way in the Western world (and if a woman does want to live this way then that's her choice) but yeah it's still a common belief in many non-Western countries. Sure it's outdated but they'll catch up eventually I'm sure. Though equality does mean a woman has the right to choose what it is she wants to believe of course, and that applies to men as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Giwreh Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 4 hours ago, gisiebob said: ..... this city because it has that one radio tower in it Radio tower ?... Link to post Share on other sites
Giwreh Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 hours ago, gisiebob said: you know people still put on constrictive leather horse costumes for their partners, yes even in this day and age. I mean people still go to this one city in france because that is the romantic place to go. there's the whole world, but these folks are forced to go to this city because it has that one radio tower in it. and that's what makes things romantic. enforcing freedom is faciscim. I'm not sure if you understood my focal point ... I'll highlight it here : ..How can, still in 21st century, woman degrade themselves .. Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 hours ago, gisiebob said: there's the whole world, but these folks are forced to go to this city because it has that one radio tower in it. and that's what makes things romantic. enforcing freedom is faciscim. I have been to Paris plenty of times - never have I seen people kicking and screaming because they were dragged onto that tower with a ring they had no idea where it came from. 59 minutes ago, Giwreh said: ..How can, still in 21st century, woman degrade themselves .. Ideas: - they don't have the same ideas as you as to what is (not) degrading - they choose to do [thing] anyway Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Homer said: I have been to Paris plenty of times - never have I seen people kicking and screaming because they were dragged onto that tower with a ring they had no idea where it came from. I know, right? I guess it's easier for those folk to just pretend as if their lives were normal. or are you talking about bride kidnapping? Link to post Share on other sites
Pramana Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 We're living in the 21st century but traditional value systems are still influential in many non-Western countries. And even in Western countries, we're witnessing the rise of political currents that advocate traditional gender roles. I was asking a similar question after browsing Reddit's Red Pill Women subform, which purports to be a community of women who believe that they will be better off in relationships led by men (because allegedly that's the natural order, according to evolutionary psychology). Granted, I wonder if a portion of Red Pill Women are actually Red Pill Men hoping to spread the ideology, but still I suspect there will always be some women who for whatever reason prefer to live according to a traditional gender role model. Link to post Share on other sites
LeChat Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I was going to say something similar to what Pramana mentioned, about it being partially cultural, but I'd also like to add that, like how some youth from religious families in western countries have mentioned on AVEN that their families/parents wouldn't like that they're trans, ace, LGBT+, etc., perhaps some are just too afraid of going against their family's traditional values (despite not believing it, themselves), because they fear they might be disowned by their families/relatives. So, perhaps, they try to convince themselves living the way their parents/community wants them to is what they want or "should" have. Link to post Share on other sites
Calligraphette_Coe Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 10:58 PM, Giwreh said: The genderdysforia thing is futile as a problem, within the massive frame of continuing worldwide schism between male & female... I'm a very motivated feminist (the combat for equality thing, which is still not there..) , due to the fact I'm a life-long humanist. How is everyone looking at it ? ... (It's the thought of the day) I'm VERY offended by the bolded part of your post. For many years, this folder/forum has been maintained as a safe space for trans people. And it's highly inappropriate to use it as place to be so dismissive of trans people. Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Carolynne Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 8:58 PM, Giwreh said: The genderdysforia thing is futile as a problem, within the massive frame of continuing worldwide schism between male & female... Um... what do you mean by this? It sounds like you're (mis)conflating transgender issues with purporting traditional gender roles and sexism. You might want to elaborate. Link to post Share on other sites
Giwreh Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, G1P0 said: You might want to elaborate. I mean : the sheer massive numbers of people involved. And that we STILL tend to forget about this gender-clash where near to 50% of the world population is involved ! (It's unknow what % of woman actually already lives in a small gender-clash free environment now... 1% ? ... 5% ? (being optimistic) ) It's amasing how easy the whole world is marching over it... still now, 21st century. That was what I meant. More, think about it... almost all of genderdysforia problems actually originate in the basic male <> female gender-clash reality. It's BECAUSE most of the world maintains a sharp line between the "status-&-power position" of male vs. female, that for instance transitions are being treated with so much hate. If human gender equality was a fact , the whole genderdysforia problem frame would not even exist.... Lets stop boxing in every niche. Lets move forward to a plain humanistic world. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Even if everyone was perfectly equal, transgender people would still exist... Link to post Share on other sites
RK800 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 12 hours ago, Giwreh said: I mean : the sheer massive numbers of people involved. And that we STILL tend to forget about this gender-clash where near to 50% of the world population is involved ! (It's unknow what % of woman actually already lives in a small gender-clash free environment now... 1% ? ... 5% ? (being optimistic) ) It's amasing how easy the whole world is marching over it... still now, 21st century. That was what I meant. More, think about it... almost all of genderdysforia problems actually originate in the basic male <> female gender-clash reality. It's BECAUSE most of the world maintains a sharp line between the "status-&-power position" of male vs. female, that for instance transitions are being treated with so much hate. If human gender equality was a fact , the whole genderdysforia problem frame would not even exist.... Lets stop boxing in every niche. Lets move forward to a plain humanistic world. Gender dysphoria would still exist regardless of how equal people are. Perhaps I'm missing your point though? Link to post Share on other sites
Jusey1 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 4:37 AM, Giwreh said: I'm not sure if you understood my focal point ... I'll highlight it here : ..How can, still in 21st century, woman degrade themselves .. Because they want to or don't share the same opinions as you. There is some things I do that I can honestly say be counted as me degrading myself but I still enjoy them when they're done positively for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Giwreh Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 7 hours ago, > 2 said: Gender dysphoria would still exist regardless of how equal people are. Perhaps I'm missing your point though? You are missing it completely. >>> social gender dysphoria problems <<< The way transgender (etc) are NOT accepted in society now. Link to post Share on other sites
Calligraphette_Coe Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 None of the this so called 'equality' would change a thing. We'd still get beat over the head with Evolutionary Psychology, sexual and reproductive issues. The old 'I have nothing against trans people...... except X, Y and Z.' Or, ' You have an illness and sick people want to get better. Here, let us help by making you more like us.' Or, "You can have the surgery, but you'll still always be ___________." I recently had my posts denigraded in a 'Just Folks and Times' type forum as being 'too American' (they weren't), and when I asked for clarification, was insulted and essentially told 'so sue me.' If all it takes to get treated disrespectfully like this is lines on a map, what does that say about this 'equality' argument'? In the law, there are these Maxims of Equity. And two of them are 'Those who would come to equity must come there with clean hands' and 'They who seek equity must DO equity.' Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Giwreh said: You are missing it completely. >>> social gender dysphoria problems <<< The way transgender (etc) are NOT accepted in society now. Are you saying that by making cis men and women equal trans people would be accepted too? Link to post Share on other sites
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