Relatable Non-Binary Things

[Anthracite_Impreza]

20 minutes ago, Celyn said:

I mean, probably. It's a case of "We've promised to do this, but we haven't actually done anything yet."

Well Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens have all promised to do it so all bases should be covered :x

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

I work in a world where gender is a fixed thing, so I have to passably fit in. although lip service is given to 'others' , it's not really taken seriously.

 

I manage to get away with wearing trousers all the time (as I cycle to work, that's my excuse, although I have had the awkward experience of speaking to a colleague who was wearing a tight mini skirt to cycle there -you can guess I knew the colour of her knickers)...

 

I just don't get the girly thing , with all the thick make up, plastic stick on nails and drawn-on eyebrows, neither do I get the sneering machismo thing of men who use any way possible to get control. No offence to either, but I see it all as tedious wastes of energy.

 

Maybe I'm just agendered!

[timewarp]

I've never understood that heavily gendered formal wear thing that happens at many workplaces (and my impression is that the UK is still one of the worst countries in this regard). Partially it's also because I've never worked in such an environment.

 

Before I went back to academia I was doing technical consulting mostly for producing industries and agriculture. Turn up formally dressed and your customers won't take you seriously. Wear hiking boots and whatever is most comfortable, and they will think you know what you're doing. Now that I'm back at a university still nothing has changed for me. Except for graduation ceremonies and the like nobody cares the slightest bit.

 

Wearing a suit makes me very uncomfortable, so I avoid it like the plague. In those few situations where I feel I need to dress up a little bit I get myself to wear a shirt. It's already a bit out of my comfort zone (usually strictly t-shirts, jumpers, hoodies and the like), but with the right choice of style I manage for a few hours and still feel relaxed enough.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

4 minutes ago, timewarp said:

I've never understood that heavily gendered formal wear thing that happens at many workplaces (and my impression is that the UK is still one of the worst countries in this regard). Partially it's also because I've never worked in such an environment.

I have to dress "professionally" if not formally and I usually wear coloured trousers of some kind (I used to like blue and black a lot but I got told it was too much like jeans so now I tend to go for brown, burgundy or khaki) with a button-up, and a chunky cable-knit jumper if it's cold. I love chunky jumpers.

Oh and this will surprise some but I actually really like wedge heels! It's the height thing I think, I like that they make me taller.

So often I'll look pretty male unless you look down....all aboard the gender-fuckery train!

[Anthracite_Impreza]

25 minutes ago, Celyn said:

all aboard the gender-fuckery train!

Choo choo.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

34 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Choo choo.

I LOVE THE QUEER TRAIN SO MUCH I now understand your earlier implication that you wanted a pet train. I want this one and I would call him Gerald.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

4 hours ago, Celyn said:

I LOVE THE QUEER TRAIN SO MUCH I now understand your earlier implication that you wanted a pet train. I want this one and I would call him Gerald.

A companion, not a pet. One does not tend to whisper sweet nothings to a pet

[nerdperson777]

17 hours ago, timewarp said:

Before I went back to academia I was doing technical consulting mostly for producing industries and agriculture. Turn up formally dressed and your customers won't take you seriously. Wear hiking boots and whatever is most comfortable, and they will think you know what you're doing. Now that I'm back at a university still nothing has changed for me. Except for graduation ceremonies and the like nobody cares the slightest bit.

At my graduation, there was no assigned seating and I sat next to a guy who was graduating with some graduate degree.  He was wearing shorts and flip-flops under his gown.  Even I was better dressed than that.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

13 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

A companion, not a pet. One does not tend to whisper sweet nothings to a pet

Some "companions" are into the pet thing....aaaaand we're in a very strange place all of a sudden....

[Anthracite_Impreza]

4 hours ago, Celyn said:

Some "companions" are into the pet thing....aaaaand we're in a very strange place all of a sudden....

You're on AVEN talking to an objectum asexual, that train has already left the station

[AllOfTheAbove]

Although I am genderfluid (and going strong), most of the time I just want to be seen as both masculine and feminine and I can be fine with my female body. However, there are days when I just want to rip off my chest and also not have an hourglass body shape. A lot of days I just want a normal part of a conversation to be: "Hi, my name's Yang. My pronouns are they/them." "Oh, nice you meet you, Yang! My name's Jason and my pronouns are he/his." Is that so much to ask? I'm just so worried about asking an ignorant cisgendered person about pronouns right after meeting them and then having to explain gender identity to them. It's so infuriating living in a society where people look at your chest to determine your gender and don't just ask you about it. Does anyone else have this sort of thing happen to them?

 

I have almost never felt 100% to one gender, for whatever reason. I just generally feel nonbinary leaning towards masculine or feminine. Although I  When I talked to my best friend, I asked her if she thought I was masculine or feminine and she said I was just me. Basically, she had no gender descriptor for me because my personality was very much nonbinary. This really helped me understand that being mostly nonbinary conforming was alright and that it was very much me, down to my core.

 

I can't discuss this with my parents, though. They are the sort of straight parents who have some gay friends but don't really understand the LGBTQ+ culture. They respect my trans friend but don't seem to know of anything outside of the binary. I can't tell them I am genderfluid because then I will have to bring up gender dysphoria. They already don't take my ADHD symptoms seriously, instead, they expect more from me because I am not a child. I am worried that they will discount gender dysphoria because there are no visible symptoms, you don't get a rash or anything of the sort.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

So before I actually got to enjoy myself today I had to go to some shitty dole (social security) thing. She was a new adviser so I had to go through the jobs I'm looking for (again) and I obviously said I'm looking into train driving. Her response?

"Oh I saw a woman train driver the other day, it's definitely a thing!"

1. No shit Sherlock.

2. I'm not a woman.

3. Even if I was a woman, why would my gender have to come up in every-fucking-thing? Can't we just do stuff without genitals (because cisnormativity) being brought up?

[nerdperson777]

5 hours ago, AllOfTheAbove said:

Is that so much to ask? I'm just so worried about asking an ignorant cisgendered person about pronouns right after meeting them and then having to explain gender identity to them. It's so infuriating living in a society where people look at your chest to determine your gender and don't just ask you about it. Does anyone else have this sort of thing happen to them?

They never really have issues with it so when asked pronouns, I've often heard them say in an obvious way like duh, it's assumed sort of thing.  If only they can see their cis privilege.

[Light02]

Back when I was in high school and even in kindergarten whenever we'd put on a play my criteria for applying for a character was always: 1. Are they a main character? and 2. Do I like the character? Their gender/sex literally never even crossed my mind as something relevant in relation to me playing them and whether it was "appropriate" for me to play them. In result I'd apply for both male and female characters and every time I applied for male ones I'd be told: "But this is a male role. You can't play it, you're a girl." It really pissed me off, every single time. A lot of the time they'd still give me the part, though, lol.

 

Sometimes I feel like gender for me is like a costume or a character. I can be any one, whichever I feel like at the time and I can change it whenever I want to. They're all right, just at different times. 

[Guest]

Does it count as a relatable nonbinary thing that my gender is complicated enough that even I get confused by it sometimes? I used to think I was just nonbinary, but I’ve recently discovered that the static part of my gender is libramasculine rather than just agender, and my ideal presentation has changed from androgynous to masculine slowly enough that I didn’t notice at first.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

28 minutes ago, nelpogrando said:

oes it count as a relatable nonbinary thing that my gender is complicated enough that even I get confused by it sometimes

I don't know about anyone else but I certainly find that very relateable.

[Albine]

Not sure if this is the place for this or what I call myself. Basically i was an avid crossdresser when I was a teen mom was somewhat supportive dad was not, thought it was just a phase. I was active in the TG community / group in my area. i know I was mostly male but had strong female tendencies.  While the thought of transitioning crossed my mind a lot i never acted on it until I decided to have breast augmentation.  Since then I have not had the strong desire to crossdress much, I live for the most part as a male with noticeable boobs. I am torn though as I am happy with the results and all but still have issues socially and being comfortable in certain situations.      

[Andiamo]

4 hours ago, nelpogrando said:

Does it count as a relatable nonbinary thing that my gender is complicated enough that even I get confused by it sometimes?

Yes. I definitely relate to this.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

14 hours ago, Light02 said:

Back when I was in high school and even in kindergarten whenever we'd put on a play my criteria for applying for a character was always: 1. Are they a main character? and 2. Do I like the character? Their gender/sex literally never even crossed my mind as something relevant in relation to me playing them and whether it was "appropriate" for me to play them. In result I'd apply for both male and female characters and every time I applied for male ones I'd be told: "But this is a male role. You can't play it, you're a girl." It really pissed me off, every single time. A lot of the time they'd still give me the part, though, lol.

 

Sometimes I feel like gender for me is like a costume or a character. I can be any one, whichever I feel like at the time and I can change it whenever I want to. They're all right, just at different times. 

I was always the donkey or reindeer in our school plays, except the one time I was an angel because it meant I got to touch feathers (I like soft things ok?).

[nerdperson777]

3 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I was always the donkey or reindeer in our school plays, except the one time I was an angel because it meant I got to touch feathers (I like soft things ok?).

My 9th grade English teacher (who later became the theatre director) had us act out scenes to help us understand the novel we were reading better.  Too many students and not enough characters?  Put your hands up and be a tree in the background.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

12 hours ago, Albine said:

Not sure if this is the place for this or what I call myself. Basically i was an avid crossdresser when I was a teen mom was somewhat supportive dad was not, thought it was just a phase. I was active in the TG community / group in my area. i know I was mostly male but had strong female tendencies.  While the thought of transitioning crossed my mind a lot i never acted on it until I decided to have breast augmentation.  Since then I have not had the strong desire to crossdress much, I live for the most part as a male with noticeable boobs. I am torn though as I am happy with the results and all but still have issues socially and being comfortable in certain situations.      

You're totally welcome in this thread!

Despite the differences of our experiences, you living as "mostly male with boobs" makes me feel a whole lot better about mine, so I for one am glad you came here.

[nerdperson777]

18 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

My 9th grade English teacher (who later became the theatre director) had us act out scenes to help us understand the novel we were reading better.  Too many students and not enough characters?  Put your hands up and be a tree in the background.

She later became known to me as my first LGBT+ teacher.  In the yearbook, there was just a small picture in there with her wife and dog.  During the summer, she came by and introduced us to her wife (possibly also baby?).  I was taking a summer class that happened to take place at my school that time so I wasn't at school for no reason.  Now I know that at the plays, the wife is always there showing support so I guess they are now openly lesbian.  During my English class, I had never heard her mention any family in her life so she must've kept it secret during the school year.  Perhaps she knew that I was part of the community somehow.  She always remembered my name even years after I left her class.  I'm kind of wondering if she would remember me if I added her on Facebook, but I have a different name now.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, nerdperson777 said:

She later became known to me as my first LGBT+ teacher.  In the yearbook, there was just a small picture in there with her wife and dog.  During the summer, she came by and introduced us to her wife (possibly also baby?).  I was taking a summer class that happened to take place at my school that time so I wasn't at school for no reason.  Now I know that at the plays, the wife is always there showing support so I guess they are now openly lesbian.  During my English class, I had never heard her mention any family in her life so she must've kept it secret during the school year.  Perhaps she knew that I was part of the community somehow.  She always remembered my name even years after I left her class.  I'm kind of wondering if she would remember me if I added her on Facebook, but I have a different name now.

If you add her and send her a dm explaining that you used to be in her class and then you changed your name, that might work.

[nerdperson777]

15 minutes ago, nelpogrando said:

If you add her and send her a dm explaining that you used to be in her class and then you changed your name, that might work.

I want to see if she does remember me.  Also, I'm always shy so don't know if I'll ever send it.

[Guest]

Is having your level of dysphoria partially depend on who you’re around a relatable nonbinary thing, or is that just me? My chest dysphoria only ever fully goes away when I’m binding, but for some reason I only bother to bind when I’m going to be around people other than my family and friends for a long time. It’s probably because I’m risk averse and I’ve heard over and over that the best way to minimize the risks of a safe binder is to wear it as little as you can stand, but since I think I could probably pass as male while binding in the right clothes, at least until I talk, I kind of want to start binding more often to test that theory.

[arowace]

Tfw you like to dress femininely but you lean masc/neutral and your body is feminine... and you haven't started hormones yet. So you feel uncomfortable because you probably just look like a cis girl, even wearing a binder.

 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

3 hours ago, nelpogrando said:

Is having your level of dysphoria partially depend on who you’re around a relatable nonbinary thing, or is that just me? My chest dysphoria only ever fully goes away when I’m binding, but for some reason I only bother to bind when I’m going to be around people other than my family and friends for a long time. It’s probably because I’m risk averse and I’ve heard over and over that the best way to minimize the risks of a safe binder is to wear it as little as you can stand, but since I think I could probably pass as male while binding in the right clothes, at least until I talk, I kind of want to start binding more often to test that theory.

Doesn't go away when I'm alone, but definitely worse when others around. There's an extra level of "they can all see, they're judging you right now, you look like a fraud" when other people are there.

[Light02]

Does anyone else feel like you can never quite look the exact way you want to? For example, I had long hair for most of my life and I liked it. The problem was always that I feel like it made my face very feminine and I hated that. So for a couple of years I was always curious about shaving it all off. I also never wanted to have a "normal boy haircut" so I kind of thought that shaving it all off would be a bit more androgynous. A couple of months ago I went to the hairdresser with the intent of shaving it but instead I just got a really short "boyish" haircut. I'm socially anxious so I didn't say anything. I didn't really dislike the haircut but I didn't love it either and I thought "It's fine, I'll just go even shorter next time" like I wanted to in the first place. Something that I wasn't expecting happened, though. With short hair I started passing as male about 90% of the time and 10% of the time people aren't sure what my gender is. So now I'm in the position of passing as female whenever I want to (by putting on feminine clothing I'm comfortable with) and as male whenever I want to. But I still wanted to go through with shaving my head to see how it looks and if I like it. The next month I did it and I hated it. 😅 Then I had to make a decision what I wanted to do with my hair and I settled on growing it out to a "normal boy haircut" length so that I could control how I'm passing. That's where I'm at now. I love being able to alternate between passing as female and male but now I really miss my long hair. I felt so pretty with it, I just hated how it made me pass as female 100% of the time and how it made my face shape more feminine. I don't really like having short hair but the ability it gives me to pass is precious so I'm not giving that up, definitely not. I really wish I could have long hair and still be able to pass as anything other than female. 😭

[arowace]

11 hours ago, Light02 said:

I really wish I could have long hair and still be able to pass as anything other than female. 😭

THIS TIMES TEN MILLION. I love long hair. I want a long curly mane because I love my hair and I think it'll look rad as fuck! I also like "feminine" clothing because I really don't think clothes should be gendered and everyone looks good in a skirt. But... I don't have the body I want. I'm pushing towards a more neutral gender expression and binding my chest but It pains me to think that I just look like a cis person. I don't wanna wait to look more masc to be seen as nb in the clothing/hairstyle I like...

 

[nerdperson777]

13 hours ago, Light02 said:

Does anyone else feel like you can never quite look the exact way you want to?

Well, I'm more of how I should act rather than how I should look.  I'm okay with how I look, with as close to a binary male expression as I can.  Also I don't have a sense of aesthetics so I may go outside with bed head and I'd be okay with it as long as I felt that I was being masculine or androgynous.  Sometimes there's acting more masculine than I actually am just so that people will see me as a guy and not question or judge me.  I was telling this guy an hour ago about how I was coaching and I left the super huge class to help a smaller class because the coach in charge of that class asked me to come over to his side.  When I asked after, the huge class coach said, yes we were overwhelmed.  So I said that I felt really bad for leaving them and in that moment I was talking, I felt like I was talking from a girl's POV, or at least a stereotypically feminine way.  I feel like a gay male would've acted the same way as I did there, but I thought that I was acting like a girl in that moment.  I'm not sure if he knew I was trans since he never said anything, but he's probably seen evidence of pre-transition me so then I'm just left being forever unsure.  This is what I get for having this weird gender where I look male but act female.