Relatable Non-Binary Things

[nerdperson777]

2 hours ago, nelpogrando said:

You don’t need dysphoria to be trans, but I would recommend asking yourself why you feel like you should identify as trans without it. I’m transmasculine and transneutral, so my experience will be different from yours, but I think I’m an example of the fact that it’s possible for one to suppress most or all of one’s dysphoria. I’ve only had direct dysphoria since this past October, but I’ve had feelings that can easily be explained by indirect, subconsciously suppressed dysphoria for several years before that.

Totally describing me down to the gender.  I suppressed my dysphoria for a while, but then I found my identity so the hope of it made me hate puberty more.  Back then I didn't know of a solution other than to "deal with it" like my parents always told me.

[Guest]

That genderfluid feel (in my case, demifluid) when you feel like one binary gender more often than the other and it happens to be the opposite one from your agab and you’re not sure what to do about it. I’m generally transneutral, but I’m starting to think I’m also transmasculine, and which one is dominant varies. I’m so confused about it! At least I know what next steps I want to take in my transition once I’m an adult.

[WoodwindWhistler]

On 7/19/2018 at 7:55 AM, EmbrAce It said:

Is there anyone here who doesn't experience dysphoria (and is then confused about whether they should identify as transfeminine)? I'm very questioning at the moment but considering demifemale as a label, and I don't experience dysphoria (except for the inevitable fear of being judged, but that's different) about my feminine traits at all.

If you feel as if feminine traits, thinking, 'energy', what-have-you resonate with your internal experience more than masculine, that's plenty to ID as trans. If you want, that is. Personally, I'm not very vocal about openly IDing as nonbinary, because I don't feel called to do so. One of the things that pisses the Real Trans TM people off is that nonbinaries can choose to ID that way or not, but you know, you can't live your life by somebody else's rules. 

I guess it's worth trying to unpack whether your fear of being judged is merely a function of unrealistic societal standards vs. something you in your heart of hearts are uncomfortable with. Sounds like the former, to me. 

I experience what I think is very mild dysphoria. Usually my brain tries to plaster over it with "logical" sounding things like "of course you're uncomfortable in a female body, boobs are a hassle, pregnancy is scary, and STDs are more easily spread here" but I've just learned to peek under the hood and examine why those take up the space they do. (they 'manspread' hahahaha). 

 

On 7/15/2018 at 9:57 AM, AllOfTheAbove said:

Hmmmmm, I can't rename it, but if you can give me the link to that thread, then I'll add it!

 

[WoodwindWhistler]

Does anyone else's dysphoria manifest as experiencing discomfort with OTHER peoples' bodies who are too binary?

Like, I often have the thought, "why aren't there MORE androgynous looking people, it would be such a better world" and then wondering why the heck I think that. 

So, not only do I want my own body to be sexless, it would be great if others' were too, apparently? That being defined "against" the binary AS nonbinary is somehow uncomfortable sometimes . . . ? I'm already pretty androgynous, so it amounts to wishing people had the 'good fortune' to be so, too. Aforementioned boob hassle plays a large part in this. Like, why are we the only animal that has big boobs hanging around when there AREN'T babies to be fed? It's just weird!

/is that even dysphoria talking, or binging on nature documentaries? 

Androgynous people just seem . . . more balanced. Like, one sex is top heavy and the other is bottom heavy, so they'll always seem chaotic or something. 


 

[nerdperson777]

3 hours ago, WoodwindWhistler said:

Does anyone else's dysphoria manifest as experiencing discomfort with OTHER peoples' bodies who are too binary?

Like, I often have the thought, "why aren't there MORE androgynous looking people, it would be such a better world" and then wondering why the heck I think that. 

So, not only do I want my own body to be sexless, it would be great if others' were too, apparently? That being defined "against" the binary AS nonbinary is somehow uncomfortable sometimes . . . ? I'm already pretty androgynous, so it amounts to wishing people had the 'good fortune' to be so, too. Aforementioned boob hassle plays a large part in this. Like, why are we the only animal that has big boobs hanging around when there AREN'T babies to be fed? It's just weird!

/is that even dysphoria talking, or binging on nature documentaries? 

Androgynous people just seem . . . more balanced. Like, one sex is top heavy and the other is bottom heavy, so they'll always seem chaotic or something. 

I think I do that but with sexualities.  Every time I see assumed straight things, I'm wondering where are all the not-straight things?  Even like old movies on TV with some straight couple, where are the other sexualities, even though I know there wasn't much representation back then.

 

I feel like my work is too cis.  Everyone seems so gender conforming.

 

Idk if this experience earlier today qualifies as a non-binary moment.  Earlier my work had like a team collaboration day, with group activities and going over the company's future.  We were having a break and I tried to find a group to talk in.  I walked into a group with two girls.  They said that they were talking about clothes.  We all knew that wasn't really a topic for me to be in but I did manage to contribute to the conversation somehow, by talking about other people in my life that have done something relating to it, like my mom used to go into Nordstrom more often and the needless spending for a $700 Burberry scarf that a toxic family friend actually had.

[Light02]

Nowadays people are constantly unsure what gendered words to use in order to talk to or about me, lol. I'm always getting random strangers on the streets asking me: "Are you a boy or a girl?". It makes me wonder whether I should be flattered or annoyed!

[Ms. Carolynne]

I don't know if this is the thread for this but it seems the most fitting.

 

Recently I've been questioning whether I'm non-binary, I'm not sure whether I'm really part agender or just a binary transwoman. The thing is that I usually envision myself as female. When I think about transition, I want to be seen as female.

 

The main thing that has me questioning is that I've had some dissociation issues recently (depersonalization / derealization), and have had these in the past as well. It has me thinking, what if my agender side is just me dissociating from gender as a sort of defense mechanism, or a byproduct of some level of depersonalization? I.E. A disconnection from myself.

 

During one of these phases of depersonalization, I had felt that I myself were agender, but the brain / mind of the person I inhabit and observe (which was my perspective at the time) was female. l felt I was just agender as an observer, but happened to have a female brain that had a male body.

 

This begs the question. Is being agender a part of my being, and thus being separated (yet remaining) when I depersonalize, or is it that I disconnect from being female as a property of myself?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, G1P0 said:

I don't know if this is the thread for this but it seems the most fitting.

 

Recently I've been questioning whether I'm non-binary, I'm not sure whether I'm really part agender or just a binary transwoman. The thing is that I usually envision myself as female. When I think about transition, I want to be seen as female.

 

The main thing that has me questioning is that I've had some dissociation issues recently (depersonalization / derealization), and have had these in the past as well. It has me thinking, what if my agender side is just me dissociating from gender as a sort of defense mechanism, or a byproduct of some level of depersonalization? I.E. A disconnection from myself.

 

During one of these phases of depersonalization, I had felt that I myself were agender, but the brain / mind of the person I inhabit and observe (which was my perspective at the time) was female. l felt I was just agender as an observer, but happened to have a female brain that had a male body.

 

This begs the question. Is being agender a part of my being, and thus being separated (yet remaining) when I depersonalize, or is it that I disconnect from being female as a property of myself?

I mean it's possible that you're a binary woman, but you could be a demi-girl or something more fluid. It's up to you though.

[nerdperson777]

7 hours ago, G1P0 said:

I don't know if this is the thread for this but it seems the most fitting.

 

Recently I've been questioning whether I'm non-binary, I'm not sure whether I'm really part agender or just a binary transwoman. The thing is that I usually envision myself as female. When I think about transition, I want to be seen as female.

 

The main thing that has me questioning is that I've had some dissociation issues recently (depersonalization / derealization), and have had these in the past as well. It has me thinking, what if my agender side is just me dissociating from gender as a sort of defense mechanism, or a byproduct of some level of depersonalization? I.E. A disconnection from myself.

 

During one of these phases of depersonalization, I had felt that I myself were agender, but the brain / mind of the person I inhabit and observe (which was my perspective at the time) was female. l felt I was just agender as an observer, but happened to have a female brain that had a male body.

 

This begs the question. Is being agender a part of my being, and thus being separated (yet remaining) when I depersonalize, or is it that I disconnect from being female as a property of myself?

I think the best person to talk to about this could be butterflydreams.  I remember a couple years ago, her gender listed on the side there was "agender (with a feminine processor)".  That sounds similar to what you're describing.  I'm not sure if she's actually binary but certainly she's presenting herself as a woman.  I tried messaging her once but didn't get much of a reply back but you can try if you can talk to her yourself.

[Light02]

On 7/24/2018 at 6:29 PM, G1P0 said:

I don't know if this is the thread for this but it seems the most fitting.

 

Recently I've been questioning whether I'm non-binary, I'm not sure whether I'm really part agender or just a binary transwoman. The thing is that I usually envision myself as female. When I think about transition, I want to be seen as female.

 

The main thing that has me questioning is that I've had some dissociation issues recently (depersonalization / derealization), and have had these in the past as well. It has me thinking, what if my agender side is just me dissociating from gender as a sort of defense mechanism, or a byproduct of some level of depersonalization? I.E. A disconnection from myself.

 

During one of these phases of depersonalization, I had felt that I myself were agender, but the brain / mind of the person I inhabit and observe (which was my perspective at the time) was female. l felt I was just agender as an observer, but happened to have a female brain that had a male body.

 

This begs the question. Is being agender a part of my being, and thus being separated (yet remaining) when I depersonalize, or is it that I disconnect from being female as a property of myself?

You could be partially agender but you should keep in mind that dissociation problems are very common amongst trans people generally, it's a type of gender dysphoria/coping mechanism for dysphoria. Here's a good article about it: https://genderanalysis.net/2017/06/depersonalization-in-gender-dysphoria-widespread-and-widely-unrecognized/

 

So, again, you could be part agender and have issues with dissociation but simply having those issues doesn't necessarily mean you are.

[butterflydreams]

12 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

I think the best person to talk to about this could be butterflydreams.  I remember a couple years ago, her gender listed on the side there was "agender (with a feminine processor)".  That sounds similar to what you're describing.  I'm not sure if she's actually binary but certainly she's presenting herself as a woman.  I tried messaging her once but didn't get much of a reply back but you can try if you can talk to her yourself.

Hehe, I’m here, and yes I am binary female. Present as a woman all the time, because I am. Happy to answer any questions you might have @G1P0!

[Anthracite_Impreza]

3 hours ago, Light02 said:

You could be partially agender but you should keep in mind that dissociation problems are very common amongst trans people generally, it's a type of gender dysphoria/coping mechanism for dysphoria. Here's a good article about it: https://genderanalysis.net/2017/06/depersonalization-in-gender-dysphoria-widespread-and-widely-unrecognized/

So, again, you could be part agender and have issues with dissociation but simply having those issues doesn't necessarily mean you are.

Wow, that's me to a T.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

2 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Wow, that's me to a T.

Likewise. 

[Light02]

Yeah, I think I've had derealization issues since at least the age of 16. 

[Guest]

My dysphoria-related dissociation is pretty mild, but sometimes when I’m being misgendered a lot, or having my body dysphoria flare up, or even when I’m in a situation where I’m not out to the majority of the people around me, I’ll start feeling like everything around me is too real and I’m not real enough.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

When something that would help you involves exposing your dysphoria.

 

Roll on the day we can do away with biological bodies, because fuck me I really hate mine right now.

[Andiamo]

@WoodwindWhistler I haven’t had dysphoria related to other people’s bodies, but I have had dysphoria related to other people being referred to by feminine terms or she/her pronouns. It definitely doesn’t happen all the time, but there are definitely times where even just hearing someone called “she” (even if said person is actually a girl) makes me super defensive or dysphoric. It’s not a fun time.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

On 7/24/2018 at 4:28 AM, nelpogrando said:

 I’m generally transneutral, but I’m starting to think I’m also transmasculine, and which one is dominant varies. I’m so confused about it! At least I know what next steps I want to take in my transition once I’m an adult

I'm kind of in the same place, and I totally know where I want to get to re: my body, but I'm still in a quandary about what I want legally and whether X or M would be easier/make me happier. Any perspectives/opinions on this welcome

[WoodwindWhistler]

On 7/24/2018 at 1:12 AM, nerdperson777 said:

I think I do that but with sexualities.  Every time I see assumed straight things, I'm wondering where are all the not-straight things?  Even like old movies on TV with some straight couple, where are the other sexualities, even though I know there wasn't much representation back then.

 

I feel like my work is too cis.  Everyone seems so gender conforming.

 

Idk if this experience earlier today qualifies as a non-binary moment.  Earlier my work had like a team collaboration day, with group activities and going over the company's future.  We were having a break and I tried to find a group to talk in.  I walked into a group with two girls.  They said that they were talking about clothes.  We all knew that wasn't really a topic for me to be in but I did manage to contribute to the conversation somehow, by talking about other people in my life that have done something relating to it, like my mom used to go into Nordstrom more often and the needless spending for a $700 Burberry scarf that a toxic family friend actually had.

Well that seems like pretty basic non-toxic SJW thinking to me! Allies also think that way . . . nothing to be concerned about, surely. 

Women talking about clothes . . . per my first post, in some cases I'd refer to that as "toxic femininity" honestly. I use both it and toxic masculinity to describe superficial traits that society imposes upon women and men that uselessly/irrationally dominate their lives. 

[nerdperson777]

1 hour ago, WoodwindWhistler said:

Well that seems like pretty basic non-toxic SJW thinking to me! Allies also think that way . . . nothing to be concerned about, surely. 

Women talking about clothes . . . per my first post, in some cases I'd refer to that as "toxic femininity" honestly. I use both it and toxic masculinity to describe superficial traits that society imposes upon women and men that uselessly/irrationally dominate their lives. 

I commented on a friend's post and then came up with the idea of toxic femininity for that.  It started a whole conversation on what would qualify as that.  I forgot what we decided on though.  Got to find it again.

 

EDIT: The discussion said that much of toxic femininity is from white femininity.

"white women have a violent history of weaponizing our femininity and the presumed innocence and purity forced on us by patriarchal white supremacy. that’s definitely toxic and unique to white women."

Non-white women are seen as exotic, submissive.  White women violence on people of color, especially black men.  Then cis women violence on trans women.

 

This was mostly discussed between two people, one which thinks it's not only applied to white women.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Celyn said:

I'm kind of in the same place, and I totally know where I want to get to re: my body, but I'm still in a quandary about what I want legally and whether X or M would be easier/make me happier. Any perspectives/opinions on this welcome

Whether you should try to get your gender marker changed to X versus M depends on a lot of things. I haven’t researched it yet, since I’m still a minor, but I know that not all states allow an X on legal ID, and if you are able to get it, you would be outing yourself to anyone who looked at your ID. I don’t know your precise identity or your personal situation, but if you want the option to go stealth you might want to go for an M.

[K.I.N.G]

19 hours ago, Andiamo said:

@WoodwindWhistler I haven’t had dysphoria related to other people’s bodies, but I have had dysphoria related to other people being referred to by feminine terms or she/her pronouns. It definitely doesn’t happen all the time, but there are definitely times where even just hearing someone called “she” (even if said person is actually a girl) makes me super defensive or dysphoric. It’s not a fun time. 

fucking same - even seeing someone doing something really "traditionally" feminine i get an overwhelming feeling of dysphoria and stupidly want to shout at them to stop.

 

sorry im more ranting at this point.
 

Spoiler

 

Also how pray does one affirm feeling nb????  theres nothing i can do to make me feel more enby because every-fucking-think is so fucking binary in some blood way and I frequently don't feel anywhere enby enough even though it is something i identify very strongly with at times - being genderless would just be an actual heaven... scratch that even having a day I'm not anxiously dysphoric would be heaven.

 

Also why do i feel dysphoric when i feel feminine - shouldn't it be gone or at least less during this time???

 

i have an inkling that its cause really my sense of masculinity is so fragile and me already having.... wtf there just then it literally went from feminine to masculine - give me a fucking break - male, masculine, feminine, nothing, something and everything... Since i started actually questioning my gender its always been rather fluid however I felt invasive identifying as nb cause i do strong feel binary male on the occasion - of course now fucking though i've being feeling more actually nb but still unworthy of the freaking thing and there's literally nothing i can do about it.

 

To be agender and completely androgynous would be perfect right about now. AND Yet everyone is going around say oh she this and she fucking that cause coming out to family is completes un-fucking-feasible atm -  WHY cant THEY just be more bloody widely used???

 

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Andiamo said:

@WoodwindWhistler I haven’t had dysphoria related to other people’s bodies, but I have had dysphoria related to other people being referred to by feminine terms or she/her pronouns. It definitely doesn’t happen all the time, but there are definitely times where even just hearing someone called “she” (even if said person is actually a girl) makes me super defensive or dysphoric. It’s not a fun time.

Same! I feel so stupid for it since like you said, someone who's actually a girl will get called by she/her pronouns and I get incredibly dysphoric but it's like "no one is calling you that wtf"

[Anthracite_Impreza]

1 hour ago, i-AM-me said:

To be agender and completely androgynous would be perfect right about now

Feel that soooo much my friend.

 

So I've decided, I'm getting a binder. I literally can't go out of the house now unless I'm with Blitz (this guy), and summer means no hiding in bulky jumpers. So yes, for my own sanity and happiness I am finally taking the plunge and getting a binder. One of my friends is trans male and quite far along in the transition process, he's gonna help me out (I know you're not reading this but thank you I'm actually crying right now).

 

I genuinely can't wait to put an order in.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

4 hours ago, nelpogrando said:

Whether you should try to get your gender marker changed to X versus M depends on a lot of things. I haven’t researched it yet, since I’m still a minor, but I know that not all states allow an X on legal ID, and if you are able to get it, you would be outing yourself to anyone who looked at your ID. I don’t know your precise identity or your personal situation, but if you want the option to go stealth you might want to go for an M.

I'd be in England, which does allow X and has recently issued that statement saying that they want to make transition easier, particularly for enbys. Also, I wouldn't be in a position to be stealth all the time. But you do make a really good point and it's something to consider - going with binary even though I'm not would definitely make life easier in terms of not having to explain my gender to everyone.

 

@i-AM-me I relate to your rant a lot. You have a digi-hug from me if you want it

[Groovy Teacakes]

@Celyn wow I hadn’t realised that that was the case in England. Is this including passports? If so yayyy! I am very excited about this!The last I heard was that someone’s appeal for an X passport was rejected. 

[Celyn: The Lutening]

3 minutes ago, Groovy Teacakes said:

@Celyn wow I hadn’t realised that that was the case in England. Is this including passports? If so yayyy! I am very excited about this!The last I heard was that someone’s appeal for an X passport was rejected. 

Yeah this was a super recent thing, as in the last month or so. But they're introducing it and I'm sure it will be firmly in place by the time I'll have to decide (the length of the whole damn process is another thing I'm not thrilled about, but making transitions easier and quicker was another recommendation in the same report so ???)

[nerdperson777]

11 hours ago, nelpogrando said:

Whether you should try to get your gender marker changed to X versus M depends on a lot of things. I haven’t researched it yet, since I’m still a minor, but I know that not all states allow an X on legal ID, and if you are able to get it, you would be outing yourself to anyone who looked at your ID. I don’t know your precise identity or your personal situation, but if you want the option to go stealth you might want to go for an M.

I was looking at what's going on in my state for having it starting 2019.  I think it said that it's going to be (-), which to me sounds more like agender or neutrois, something null.  I don't think that I'll be going to any transphobic states but there's always going to be bigots in-state.  You bring out a good point about using M as opposed to X or (-) though.  Either way, it'd be easier in 2019 to change genders.  Don't need to out yourself in the local newspaper, even if we might think no one reads newsprint anymore.

 

8 hours ago, i-AM-me said:

 

  Hide contents

 

Also how pray does one affirm feeling nb????  theres nothing i can do to make me feel more enby because every-fucking-think is so fucking binary in some blood way and I frequently don't feel anywhere enby enough even though it is something i identify very strongly with at times - being genderless would just be an actual heaven... scratch that even having a day I'm not anxiously dysphoric would be heaven.

 

Also why do i feel dysphoric when i feel feminine - shouldn't it be gone or at least less during this time???

 

i have an inkling that its cause really my sense of masculinity is so fragile and me already having.... wtf there just then it literally went from feminine to masculine - give me a fucking break - male, masculine, feminine, nothing, something and everything... Since i started actually questioning my gender its always been rather fluid however I felt invasive identifying as nb cause i do strong feel binary male on the occasion - of course now fucking though i've being feeling more actually nb but still unworthy of the freaking thing and there's literally nothing i can do about it.

 

To be agender and completely androgynous would be perfect right about now. AND Yet everyone is going around say oh she this and she fucking that cause coming out to family is completes un-fucking-feasible atm -  WHY cant THEY just be more bloody widely used???

 

 

I guess I affirm myself that I am mostly male-like, but I act quite feminine.  Any form of non-conforming would be that to me.  Even when my overall gender expression is the opposite binary from my AGAB, I have some qualities still of my AGAB.  I have flamboyant, stereotypically "gay" hands and I can be extremely shy and anxious.  After T, I haven't been afraid to express more femininity, but I guess that just says I don't give in to toxic masculine behaviors, although I will admit that I probably had a lot of before, to affirm my masculinity since I didn't know how to be sensitive to others beyond super basic ways.  I had learned from the typical society to use gay as an insult, calling a guy a girl when he was whiny, and throw much of the femme cis female population under the bus just to prove my masculinity to others, just to say that I wasn't like those girls.  Being raised in those environments and then being introduced to marginalized communities made me more sensitive to them.  I'm still learning, as I found that correcting people's grammar and spelling online can be considered ableist, so just got to know what group I'm in.

 

I'm not sure what kind of tangent I went on there.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

8 hours ago, Celyn said:

Yeah this was a super recent thing, as in the last month or so. But they're introducing it and I'm sure it will be firmly in place by the time I'll have to decide (the length of the whole damn process is another thing I'm not thrilled about, but making transitions easier and quicker was another recommendation in the same report so ???)

I didn't know this o: I can actually go abroad again once my passport runs out!

[Celyn: The Lutening]

8 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I didn't know this o: I can actually go abroad again once my passport runs out!

I mean, probably. It's a case of "We've promised to do this, but we haven't actually done anything yet."