Relatable Non-Binary Things

[AllOfTheAbove]

This is basically just a place for all people who identify as something other than cisgender. However, if you are cis and have questions, feel free to ask them! I'll reply as much as I can.

[AllOfTheAbove]

Me and my ftm friend always have issues when it comes to clothing. Sometimes we're thinking, "Wouldn't it be great to wear that? Wouldn't I look so masculine (or feminine) wearing that? Wouldn't I look great in that suit? How about this tank top?" Although we don't have the clothing, we sure have our imaginations and Pinterest boards! 😜

[Aoi Android]

• That feeling when you know there's no one way to look, act, or be nonbinary; but you still feel weird that you don't fit the stereotypical look.
• Those branching anxious choices where you're trying to weigh whether you should come out to some random stranger or allow yourself to be misgendered
• Worrying if the people you care about really do see you as nonbinary or just someone who's looking for attention

 

 

I really didn't have any questions, just wanted to share some things that might be relatable

[Celyn: The Lutening]

8 minutes ago, Aoi Android said:

That feeling when you know there's no one way to look, act, or be nonbinary; but you still feel weird that you don't fit the stereotypical look.

• That feeling when you DO fit the stereotypical look, and all those inspirational, validating posts about how enbys can look however they want; just make you feel....weird.
• "Is that a men's shirt?"............"Uh, maybe? I don't know, I can't remember which section it was in because I don't pay attention to that."

[PixleyDust✨]

 

1 hour ago, Celyn said:

• That feeling when you DO fit the stereotypical look, and all those inspirational, validating posts about how enbys can look however they want; just make you feel....weird.
• "Is that a men's shirt?"............"Uh, maybe? I don't know, I can't remember which section it was in because I don't pay attention to that."

Yeah, and then you see posts on social media kind of bashing the stereotypical look, but that’s your look. And you kind of feel bad for rocking it because you think you’re enforcing that stereotype. But you do enjoy rocking it because you’re a GNC AFAB who’s inherently too feminine for the non-stereotypical ones.

 

Like, if you didn’t, people wouldn’t see a GNC girl, just a girl. And that makes you feel WHOLLY one-dimensional and small.

 

And when you do pay attention to that because either:

 

A.) You’re shopping with a family member who vaguely thinks you’re trans (when you’re not) and so you’re too embarrassed to go over to the men’s. Or with someone who thinks you’re cis/is closed-minded and you’re too embarrassed to go over.

 

B.) You’re afraid strangers are going to think you’re trans (which isn’t a big deal for me, I know I’m not) but you’re not sure how they are going to feel about that and you don’t want to be part of a major scene. 

 

C.) You’ve been in the Women’s section too long and you start to look for masculine clothing to counteract, what feels like, massive estrogen poisoning.

 

OR

 

D.) You have to shop in the boy’s section because the men’s is too big for your frame and you feel incredibly creepy for it. Bonus points if you’re alone and there’s one or more families shopping in the same section at the same time as you. Gotta love that look they give you. I think it goes something like this:

 

 

That last one is my FAVORITE. 🤣

[Celyn: The Lutening]

ESTROGEN POISONING

33 minutes ago, Pixley said:

You have to shop in the boy’s section because the men’s is too big for your frame and you feel incredibly creepy for it. Bonus points if you’re alone and there’s one or more families shopping in the same section at the same time as you. Gotta love that look they give you.

I had that happen, and I just held the Star Wars shirt I was going to buy up against me and grinned at them. Their son was like "Hell yeah, Star Wars!" but I'm pretty sure the couple was just thinking "Must respect the trans guy, must respect the trans guy...." until I left.

[PixleyDust✨]

Oh my god, that was so freaking heartwarming to read that. 😆

 

The clothes are fine, for the most part. It’s definitely when I have to shop for boy’s underwear for my masculine times since the men’s are DEFINITELY WAY TOO BIG FOR ME. 😳

 

It’s like if someone sees me down there, I have this urge to look at them and say “NOTHING WEIRD. I PROMISE.” Or I have this excuse in my back pocket that it’s for my little brother (which is technically true that I have one, but he’s 20) or that it’s for my kid (and they don’t have to know he’s imaginary). 😅

 

Plus, at least I know I’m an XL in Boy’s. Whenever I bought Women’s, it was always too big. And I gain and lose weight constantly, so I never really know what size I am in Women’s anyways. And all those styles fitting differently, shit’s way too confusing. I gotta give props to the simplicity and functionality of men’s fashion, even if it can be kind of bland sometimes.

 

Oh, and boy’s underwear has never once given me a wedgie. Even when I’m feeling feminine, I’ll wear it on that merit alone. I mean, if that’s not a sign from God that conventional femininity isn’t for me, I don’t know what is. 🤣

[WoodwindWhistler]

Maybe you should title this "Non-Binary Problems" to parallel the mass "Asexual Problems" and "Aromantic Problems" threads. 

Then link it over in the Agender Avengers Assemble thread (or whatever it's called, it's some kind of pun on that, I'll look it up if you want) 

Anyway. That feeling when you see/hear the term "transtender" and think that aside from your close trans friends, it is probably being wielded against people like you from the "We're the REAL transpeople" LGBTers who push stupid things like "you can't be trans if you don't have dysphoria." 

That feeling when you wonder if your tendency to think logically is actually transmasculine, or more your cultural perception of masculinity imposed upon you. OR if it's Western culture and that learning to observe and honor your emotions more is actually a more normal human way to be and not solely becoming 'more feminine.'

I get that clothing is supposed to be, like artistic. 

But. Most of the time I view clothing as just a function of the capitalist system and inherently oppressive, especially the cultural development of preoccupation of it as a hobby.  I've managed to dial back those thoughts a lot (because I was making myself miserable pretty much every time I left the house when observing people). But. I'm primarily going to value clothing that came from non-sweatshop sources. I could really care less what it looks like on me. I'd rather look like a hobo, fashion backward in any sense, ridiculous for any gender, than buy into the insane markups and forced change in 'tastes' to sell more that define the industry. Is that an element of being nonbinary and therefore less concerned with gender? I guess, in a sense. It at least intersects with it. 

Thankfully, I will be a nurse, so if I wear the same thing to work every day, no one's going to notice. I don't have to do "the professional dress" song and dance (elitist ugh), except for interviews. I wonder if there are organic cotton American-made scrubs. *googles* Yes! Score!

Throughout human history, most people have not had the extra money to sit around contemplating what they're going to buy to wear. They just worked their little corner of the fields. I suppose I should be thinking more about feeling grateful to be living in an era with a standard of living that makes this possible for some sections of the planet. But it still (logically?) leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

That feeling when you often see gender issues being reduced to/dominated by #FirstWorldProblems and indulge in them yourself sometimes, to mixed effect . . . 

[Light02]

That moment when you're trying to explain your gender to a binary man or woman - "I just... I don't HAVE a gender, I mean, no wait, I do but it changes, or, or... It's kind of neither... But also both... I mean, it's like in the middle... but sometimes I want to be a guy and sometimes a girl... yeah." 🤐

[Celyn: The Lutening]

2 hours ago, Light02 said:

That moment when you're trying to explain your gender to a binary man or woman - "I just... I don't HAVE a gender, I mean, no wait, I do but it changes, or, or... It's kind of neither... But also both... I mean, it's like in the middle... but sometimes I want to be a guy and sometimes a girl... yeah." 🤐

I mean, trying to explain your gender to yourself is bad enough....

[Light02]

5 hours ago, Celyn said:

I mean, trying to explain your gender to yourself is bad enough....

100% true. That's why I've quit trying, lol, I'll just forever identify as "confused".

[PixleyDust✨]

12 hours ago, Light02 said:

That moment when you're trying to explain your gender to a binary man or woman - "I just... I don't HAVE a gender, I mean, no wait, I do but it changes, or, or... It's kind of neither... But also both... I mean, it's like in the middle... but sometimes I want to be a guy and sometimes a girl... yeah." 🤐

 

9 hours ago, Celyn said:

I mean, trying to explain your gender to yourself is bad enough....

 

4 hours ago, Light02 said:

100% true. That's why I've quit trying, lol, I'll just forever identify as "confused".

OH MY GOD. I HAVE FOUND MY TRIBE. 🤣

[Fog Brain]

When you see distant relatives or friends you haven't seen for years and haven't come out to. It's so awkward. And now you feel like you have to come out to them.

 

Buying clothes can be a mess, especially formal wear. I just end up buying everything online or from small local shops where people know me and don't judge. And those solutions can be hassles on their own.

 

And yes, trying to explain your gender is AWFUL. I've just started saying "It's changing all the time" to describe it. And then people ask "What does that mean?" or "How does that work?"

[WoodwindWhistler]

6 hours ago, Light02 said:

100% true. That's why I've quit trying, lol, I'll just forever identify as "confused".

I'd more describe it as "going with the flow." XDDD

[Celyn: The Lutening]

4 hours ago, C-Otter said:

Buying clothes can be a mess, especially formal wear

This is another thing that's on my radar especially with trying to draw/write an enby character. There's going to be a formal event in my story and I'm thinking that my poor baby is just going to have to bite the bullet, wear a suit and get misgendered as male.

(I still haven't decided what their gender assigned at birth is. I haven't even decided if I'm going to decide.)

[K.I.N.G]

On 7/7/2018 at 6:49 PM, Light02 said:

100% true. That's why I've quit trying, lol, I'll just forever identify as "confused".

:L I’ve given up trying - easier to just say its complicated in all aspects 

 

Having no understanding for gender roles when both have equally great and not so qualities.

 

When you quickly go from feeling very strongly one gender to one that is like a hard to describe shimmering curtain of something or other if that makes sense at all to anyone but me. 

 

Also When people think being bisexual is cutting out nb and other genders. 

 

Also I’m curious does anyone forget what it was like to experience a gender or lack there of when they’re experiencing another gender - like in my case forget what it feels like to be agender when I’m feeling completely male? 

[Celyn: The Lutening]

15 minutes ago, i-AM-me said:

Also I’m curious does anyone forget what it was like to experience a gender or lack there of when they’re experiencing another gender - like in my case forget what it feels like to be agender when I’m feeling completely male?

Hmm I haven't exactly tried to remember. I can't recall the feelings, just more explicit verbal memories like "I remember that day I tried on that dress and I felt pretty and not dysphoric." But there's no...visceral component to them.

[Light02]

15 hours ago, i-AM-me said:

Also I’m curious does anyone forget what it was like to experience a gender or lack there of when they’re experiencing another gender - like in my case forget what it feels like to be agender when I’m feeling completely male? 

All. The. Time. Every time I feel like a girl I think "what was this "I'm transgender" nonsense, clearly I was faking it, I'm clearly just a girl." and then when I feel male it's "what was this non-binary bs? I'm a trans guy!" 🙃

[Celyn: The Lutening]

9 minutes ago, Light02 said:

All. The. Time. Every time I feel like a girl I think "what was this "I'm transgender" nonsense, clearly I was faking it, I'm clearly just a girl." and then when I feel male it's "what was this non-binary bs? I'm a trans guy!" 🙃

You just hit the nail on the head, that's exactly how it feels.

[Light02]

Every time there's some sort of form (especially if it's something inconsequential) where you're asked to check either the male or female box. 😤 I've frequently wondered whether I should draw in a third box and just check that, lol. But usually what I end up doing is checking both boxes. 😎 

[Celyn: The Lutening]

40 minutes ago, Light02 said:

Every time there's some sort of form (especially if it's something inconsequential) where you're asked to check either the male or female box. 😤 I've frequently wondered whether I should draw in a third box and just check that, lol. But usually what I end up doing is checking both boxes. 😎 

If it says "sex" I find it fairly easy to tick "female". When it says "gender" there often is a third box - "other" - I haven't been able to bring myself to tick that yet so I sweat for a couple of minutes before caving to cisnormative society and ticking female for that too. I just haven't been ready to face questions and educate people.

[Light02]

1 hour ago, Celyn said:

If it says "sex" I find it fairly easy to tick "female". When it says "gender" there often is a third box - "other" - I haven't been able to bring myself to tick that yet so I sweat for a couple of minutes before caving to cisnormative society and ticking female for that too. I just haven't been ready to face questions and educate people.

Yeah, where I'm from we have the same word for sex and gender and I've never encountered a form with a third option, unfortunately.

[WoodwindWhistler]

Idk if this is "relatable" so much as a "yay" moment, but the National Society of Leadership and Success gives its members title options of "Ms." "Mr." and "Mx." SMASH THAT NONBINARY BUTTON W00t!

[Janus the Fox]

That feeling that there's no fashion direction other than "femininity preferred" as a male sex...

 

The lack of any direction with body or genital preference other than "femininity preferred" as a male sex...

[henshin]

Can I ask a question? Feel free to ignore this cus obvs you aren't here to explain things to me but what does it feel like for you guys who have said some days you feel like a woman and some days like a man? Like what's that subjective experience like? How do you know on a day that you are feeling more like a man for example?

[Celyn: The Lutening]

1 hour ago, henshin said:

Can I ask a question? Feel free to ignore this cus obvs you aren't here to explain things to me but what does it feel like for you guys who have said some days you feel like a woman and some days like a man? Like what's that subjective experience like? How do you know on a day that you are feeling more like a man for example?

I just...wake up knowing my gender for the day, same as you.

[Evananne]

When your parental unit doesn't understand the gender spectrum and says anyone who identifies with anything other than the binary is looking for attention and a disgrace to "real" trans people. Like, honestly what even is a "real trans person"?

 

When you had never shown signs of being genderqueer/nb as a kid because what child actually cares about gender??? I was told I was a girl, so I agreed because there weren't any other options.

 

When you're questioning your gender and realize that youre going to question until you're actually able to experiment safely... which could take years.

 

That moment when you make "Im gay" jokes whenever you flirt with anybody.

 

When you feel masculine and also feel like rocking a dress. (I wore a dress to my 8th grade prom. I also wore a bowtie because I'm a fancy dude™️.)

 

These are all my personal experiences, though.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

25 minutes ago, Evananne said:

When you feel masculine and also feel like rocking a dress. (I wore a dress to my 8th grade prom. I also wore a bowtie because I'm a fancy dude™️.)

A collared dress with a bowtie would look amazing though.

 

But yeah, I've been told "You're not really trans, you didn't show any signs as a child." Like, really? I was more interested in finding the next dog or cat to pet than in what clothes my parents bought me or what pronouns they used..

[Fog Brain]

1 hour ago, Evananne said:

When you feel masculine and also feel like rocking a dress. (I wore a dress to my 8th grade prom. I also wore a bowtie because I'm a fancy dude™️.)

I actually had to get multiple outfits for my 8th grade promotion (luckily I came out bright and early so I didn't have to explain to my parents why I wanted to do that so much) and I ended up with a similar outfit.

 

[PixleyDust✨]

 

On 7/9/2018 at 7:15 AM, i-AM-me said:

Also I’m curious does anyone forget what it was like to experience a gender or lack there of when they’re experiencing another gender - like in my case forget what it feels like to be agender when I’m feeling completely male? 

 

On 7/9/2018 at 7:32 AM, Celyn said:

Hmm I haven't exactly tried to remember. I can't recall the feelings, just more explicit verbal memories like "I remember that day I tried on that dress and I felt pretty and not dysphoric." But there's no...visceral component to them.

Yep. And that sounds pretty right to me.

 

Like, I’ve been keeping a journal to help me through the lower points of my constantly shifting gender identity. And the other night I was reading an old entry from a month ago, about how my experience with maleness as an AFAB was really just a channel for my frustration with systematic sexism (and being creepily approached in ways that were unnerving for me) and I was just like, “Okay, I remember writing that. But that doesn’t feel true at the moment. I just honestly feel kind of dudely right now.”

 

And now it feels true again. When I go full “female” (best I can do, it’s weird right now), I get so paranoid of anything even vaguely masculine on me that I get weirdly dysphoric about not being female enough, or not really being female. I went from actually wanting my eyebrows to grow out to look manlier to frantically plucking them and shaving my legs in the span of a couple days. Like, seriously, the thought of even being slightly hairy gives me this weird and confusing “trans girl” type anxiety attack (despite being AFAB).

 

It’s like I have the physical memory of wanting to be a sweet, handsome young guy, but not the emotional memory. 

 

I hate that switching to guy mode can be exhilarating and only mildly uncomfortable (chest-wise) but going back to girl mode makes everything jarring and prickly, despite my inner desire desire to identify as such. 

 

On 7/9/2018 at 10:42 PM, Light02 said:

All. The. Time. Every time I feel like a girl I think "what was this "I'm transgender" nonsense, clearly I was faking it, I'm clearly just a girl." and then when I feel male it's "what was this non-binary bs? I'm a trans guy!" 🙃

So pretty much this, except more like when I’m a guy I think “Oh ‘Gender Non-Conforming’. That’s cute. You’re totally male. Just own it. Just admit you're trans already.” But when I’m female, “Sure. Gender Non-Conforming works. That way you can still be a girl when you want to. But...you sure about that? Are you really a girl though? REALLY. Better prove it by being hyper feminine. Otherwise, you’re obviously a dude in drag.”

 

Whatever brain. 🙄