is grey-asexuality sexual or asexual?

[Dande]

On 7/8/2018 at 12:24 AM, Alejandrogynous said:

If you think this thread is antagonistic, I recommend you never go into the Hot Box. 

Not been in there yet.......but now you have my curiousity hooked.

[Ammy]

On 7/7/2018 at 1:59 PM, noparlpf said:

Well, that's what I get for posting before getting to the last page lol.

I agree; I don't fit in with the straights at all and personally I identify much more with asexual than straight. But the asexuals don't seem to want us either because we're "not ace enough."

No-one here is telling you that you're not wanted. It's a matter of education regarding the terms.

 

If you experience sexual attraction at any point, for any reason, then you can't count as asexual, because an asexual is someone who does not ever experience sexual attraction.

 

Not being asexual doesn't mean that you have to be sexual, and no-one is saying that. You can be somewhere in-between, which is the whole point of this thread. They are not pushing you into the "sexual" label (though I feel the posters in question should have added a mention of this so as to make their point clearer, and to avoid being interpreted as exclusionary.)

 

Being gray doesn't mean you fit exactly halfway through the spectrum either, and nobody is arguing that. You decide where you fit in depending on how you feel. But you can't call yourself asexual if you aren't completely devoid of sexual attraction. That would only lead to misinformation and misconceptions regarding asexuality, which is a bad thing; asexuality is already misunderstood enough as-is, we don't need people furthering misinformation about it.

 

Greysexuals are more than welcome in the community, because the community is not strictly reserved for asexuals; it's a community for the asexuality spectrum, which includes anyone who is anywhere on the spectrum (yes, including sexuals. They are the white stripe on the flag.)

 

I'll repeat: at the end of the day, it's all about accepting yourself for who you are.

 

 

I'll add: the AVEN triangle is an upside-down triangle, with sexuality at the top, fading into greysexuality somewhere down the middle, and converging into asexuality at the bottom point.

The sexuality end of the triangle is very large, because there are many ways to be sexual. Likewise, asexuality is only a point, because there is only one way to be asexual. You either are or you aren't.

 

You may experience certain aspects of asexuality, while not being completely asexual due to sometimes experiencing sexual attraction for a variety of reasons, at which point you might classify as greysexual. And that's okay! There is nothing wrong with that and you are still part of the community.

Like sexuality, there are many different ways to be grey. You decide where you fit in depending on how you feel.

[ryn2]

35 minutes ago, Ammy said:

Graysexuals are more than welcome in the community, because the community is not strictly reserved for asexuals; it's a community for the asexuality spectrum, which includes anyone who is anywhere on the spectrum (yes, including sexuals. They are the white stripe on the flag.)

Would this then imply that the asexuality spectrum is really just another name for the sexuality spectrum?

[Ammy]

19 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Would this then imply that the asexuality spectrum is really just another name for the sexuality spectrum?

Sexuality spectrum could be a more accurate name for it, yes.

I am using the term "asexuality spectrum" because most people may think of the kinsey scale when you say "sexuality spectrum", which only measures things between heterosexual and homosexual, without regard for different levels of asexuality.

 

In other words, the spectrum does define varying degrees of sexuality, but it also defines varying degrees of asexuality, while we already have another scale which decribes only (basic) sexuality.

 

 

Note: I understand that my definitions may not be the official definitions and may be perceived as wrong; however, the definition of a term can change over time as society sees fit, so I think it's worth taking into consideration.

If asexuality awareness can be sufficiently raised, to the point where more people take asexuality into consideration when the "sexuality spectrum" comes into play, then the term "asexuality spectrum" wouldn't really have an use anymore.

[Alejandrogynous]

I agree with some of what @Ammy said, but I'll add a few points.

 

1) You can call yourself whatever you want. Nobody can stop you, and you decide what words you want to use to describe yourself. It's your choice, bottom line. 

 

2) I personally don't have an issue with a grey person using the term asexual as long as they mean asexual when they use it. For instance, if a person felt a sexual connection once in their life a decade ago, but nothing since and don't feel like that will change so that's what they want to express to potential partners, by all means, use asexual. They might be technically grey, but if what they want to say is, 'I don't experience sexual desire, don't expect that of me ever', that's what the asexual label is meant for. What's not okay, is using the label asexual when what you mean is grey - as in, still likes sex sometimes or if you love someone enough, etc. Or if you do start having sexual feelings, to continue using asexual even when it no longer accurately describes you. That's where the misinformation gets perpetuated and most of the problems come from. 

[Ammy]

19 minutes ago, Alejandrogynous said:

2) I personally don't have an issue with a grey person using the term asexual as long as they mean asexual when they use it. For instance, if a person felt a sexual connection once in their life a decade ago, but nothing since and don't feel like that will change so that's what they want to express to potential partners, by all means, use asexual. They might be technically grey, but if what they want to say is, 'I don't experience sexual desire, don't expect that of me ever', that's what the asexual label is meant for. What's not okay, is using the label asexual when what you mean is grey - as in, still likes sex sometimes or if you love someone enough, etc. Or if you do start having sexual feelings, to continue using asexual even when it no longer accurately describes you. That's where the misinformation gets perpetuated and most of the problems come from.

I don't believe sexuality to be static. It's entirely possible for someone to once have been sexual (or greysexual) to some degree, and for that to change later down the line; this for a variety of factors, be they physical or psychological.

 

Of course, nobody can just decide to stop (or start) feeling sexual attraction; nobody controls that about themselves, and it happening may be relatively rare, but it can happen, and I don't think it would be fair to call somebody sexual or greysexual when, for all intents and purposes, they have changed, and are now asexual.

 

A.K.A. I agree with what you are saying, though perhaps not quite for the same reasons.

[ryn2]

49 minutes ago, Ammy said:

Sexuality spectrum could be a more accurate name for it, yes.

I am using the term "asexuality spectrum" because most people may think of the kinsey scale when you say "sexuality spectrum", which only measures things between heterosexual and homosexual, without regard for different levels of asexuality.

I guess that’s part of my original question... are there different levels of asexuality?  It sounds like the majority opinion is that, no, asexuality is a single point.  Nearby states might be “functionally asexual,” “for all intents and purposes asexual,” “pretty much asexual,” etc., but they’re not truly asexual.

 

I was reading the term asexuality spectrum to mean “the spectrum that comprises asexuality” but it sounds like that’s an error on my part.

[Alejandrogynous]

4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I was reading the term asexuality spectrum to mean “the spectrum that comprises asexuality” but it sounds like that’s an error on my part.

More like an error on the part of those who named it, who either didn't forsee the confusion it would cause, or were naming a flawed concept in the first place. 

[Ammy]

I think there are different levels of asexuality, much like how there are different levels of sexuality; this is where greysexuality comes into play. You just have to make the distinction between being asexual, and sexuality/asexuality as a whole.

 

Of course, others may disagree, and I may be wrong... but we're all here to learn, anyway. Feel free to let me know if I'm wrong in my interpretation, and I can change it.

 

I agree that it's confusing, and that may indicate that we just need better terms. I wouldn't know what a better term may be, though.

 

Perhaps we should just stick to "sexuality spectrum", while educating the general public on asexuality and making sure they understand that it's part of the sexuality spectrum; that the spectrum is a triangle, and not a line.

[ryn2]

It does sound like the whole spectrum/scale could use a less ambiguous name, given that “asexuality spectrum” doesn’t mean what it sounds like it means and “sexuality spectrum” makes more sense but was already widely used for something else.

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, Ammy said:

 

I think there are different levels of asexuality, much like how there are different levels of sexuality; this is where greysexuality comes into play. You just have to make the distinction between being asexual, and sexuality/asexuality as a whole.

 

This was what I thought originally but it sounds like a fair number of people don’t agree.

[Ammy]

34 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It does sound like the whole spectrum/scale could use a less ambiguous name, given that “asexuality spectrum” doesn’t mean what it sounds like it means and “sexuality spectrum” makes more sense but was already widely used for something else.

To be fair, the latter is merely my assumption; I don't have any statistics to back this up, and the wiki page for sexuality spectrum does include asexuality. However, given that asexuality isn't well known nor understood enough yet, I felt that the term "sexuality spectrum" may be interpreted wrongly as excluding asexuality; given that asexuality is by definition a lack of sexuality, my intuition would lead me to feel that the word "sexuality" inherently excludes asexuality, and if my intuition leads me to feel that way, it's safe to assume other people's may lead them to the same conclusion as well.

 

However, you could say that "asexuality spectrum" also excludes any form of sexuality in the same way, and you would have a good point. Taking this in consideration, I'm going to change my stance on the subject and say that "asexuality spectrum" isn't the best term to use, either.

 

Perhaps we should just stick to "sexuality spectrum", while educating the general public on asexuality and making sure they understand that it's part of the sexuality spectrum; that the spectrum is a triangle, and not a line.

(I've said this in my previous post, but I edited it in a few minutes after posting and some of you may have missed the edit, so I reiterate here.)

 

At the end of the day, though, perhaps this is just all semantics. Sure, maybe the word "sexuality" sounds as if it inherently excludes asexuality, but as long as people are properly aware of the meaning behind the term, then it doesn't really matter.

 

I stand by what I said about there being varying levels of both sexuality and asexuality, though. Greysexuals may not be asexual, strictly-speaking, but they do experience asexuality to a degree, by lack of attraction, lack of interest, and sometimes even repulsion. If there were no varying levels, then the triangle would not be a spectrum.

[Snao Cone]

My outfit happens to be all black today. Some items look blacker than others so they are technically grey but there is no purpose in making that distinction when it comes to describing my outfit, unless the topic of discussion is intended to get that specific. If someone wants to give me their unsolicited opinion about my particular outfit I won't take the bait. If someone wants to use me as an example of how it's interesting that we perceive things in relative terms, that's fair. If they use me as an example of how the textile industry is corrupting the definition of black and we fools are falling for this scheme, I'd ask them if they're okay. If someone wants to tell me that my grey watch band is also black by extension/association or the fact that it's not white then I'd ask them if they're bored. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Blackness may be absolute as a concept, but in everyday life we accept variations. Analogies suck. I'm going to make myself a sandwich. 

[Homer]

I still don't know how asexuality could possibly be a "spectrum". "X does not happen." Where's the spectrum in that?

[ryn2]

These are the two main viewpoints (not singling anyone out, just going with a couple of clearly-worded examples).  I’m too new - and not coming at the subject from an academically rigorous enough perspective - to know which is the more correct one.

1 hour ago, Homer said:

I still don't know how asexuality could possibly be a "spectrum". "X does not happen." Where's the spectrum in that?

 

3 hours ago, Ammy said:

I stand by what I said about there being varying levels of both sexuality and asexuality, though. Greysexuals may not be asexual, strictly-speaking, but they do experience asexuality to a degree, by lack of attraction, lack of interest, and sometimes even repulsion. If there were no varying levels, then the triangle would not be a spectrum.

@Snao Cone, I hope it was a good sandwich.

[Ammy]

I don't think Homer is wrong, and I don't think those two quotes you cited are opposing view points either. As far as asexuality goes, you are either asexual, or you aren't, which is what he is saying and he's definitely not wrong about that. but you don't have to be asexual to experience certain aspects of asexuality, which is where greysexuality and the spectrum come in.

 

I've already covered why "sexuality spectrum" is overall more correct of a term than "asexuality spectrum" a couple hours ago, so I don't feel the need to reiterate on that.

 

2 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

Analogies suck. I'm going to make myself a sandwich. 

[Snao Cone]

12 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Snao Cone, I hope it was a good sandwich

I changed my mind and had a salad. Sorry to disappoint. 😛

[ryn2]

5 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

I changed my mind and had a salad. Sorry to disappoint. 😛

Sometimes a salad is better anyway.  

[ryn2]

7 minutes ago, Ammy said:

I don't think Homer is wrong, and I don't think those two quotes you cited are opposing view points either. As far as asexuality goes, you are either asexual, or you aren't, which is what he is saying and he's definitely not wrong about that. but you don't have to be asexual to experience certain aspects of asexuality, which is where greysexuality and the spectrum come in.

 

I've already covered why "sexuality spectrum" is overall more correct of a term than "asexuality spectrum" a couple hours ago, so I don't feel the need to reiterate on that.

 

That’s fair.  Homer’s opinion could fit within what you proposed.

[Homer]

Sexuality is a spectrum.

Asexuality is one extreme endpoint of that spectrum.

"X does not happen" is not a spectrum.

Greysexuals aren't asexual.

Demi folks aren't asexual.

[Ceebs]

20 minutes ago, Ammy said:

but you don't have to be asexual to experience certain aspects of asexuality

If you're sexual and you're experiencing something asexuals also experience, you're experiencing aspects of sexuality, not aspects of asexuality. All sexual people aren't into all sexual things. It doesn't put  you on the asexual spectrum, it puts you somewhere on the sexual spectrum.

[Ammy]

3 minutes ago, CBC said:

If you're sexual and you're experiencing something asexuals also experience, you're experiencing aspects of sexuality, not aspects of asexuality. All sexual people aren't into all sexual things. It doesn't put  you on the asexual spectrum, it puts you somewhere on the sexual spectrum.

That's a good point, I've never looked at it this way.

[Snao Cone]

18 minutes ago, CBC said:

If you're sexual and you're experiencing something asexuals also experience, you're experiencing aspects of sexuality, not aspects of asexuality. All sexual people aren't into all sexual things. It doesn't put  you on the asexual spectrum, it puts you somewhere on the sexual spectrum.

What are aspects of asexuality, then?

[Ceebs]

Just now, Snao Cone said:

What are aspects of asexuality, then?

Honestly I would imagine just not experiencing innate sexual desire. I suppose asexual folks could come up with highly personal and more descriptive things that are "aspects" of how their asexuality manifests, but a lot of them may be things that sexual people experience too. Like not getting aroused by porn or something. Not finding people "hot" just to look at them. The thing is, some sexual people will experience those things too, so even though they sound kinda ace-y, they're not really. Or not exclusively anyway. Thus the only aspect that really matters is not wanting partnered sex.

 

Something like that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Galactic Turtle]

Wish I saved it but I did stumbe across a Twitter post (and following debate) about someone suggesting a "gay spectrum" and who calls themselves gay or whatever.

 

Most responses were "you're homosexual or you're not" though there were people disagreeing. 

 

I may found that amusing.

[Snao Cone]

Just now, CBC said:

Honestly I would imagine just not experiencing innate sexual desire. I suppose asexual folks could come up with highly personal and more descriptive things that are "aspects" of how their asexuality manifests, but a lot of them may be things that sexual people experience too. Like not getting aroused by porn or something. Not finding people "hot" just to look at them. The thing is, some sexual people will experience those things too, so even though they sound kinda ace-y, they're not really. Or not exclusively anyway. Thus the only aspect that really matters is not wanting partnered sex.

 

Something like that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Right, all sexual people have things they don't like. Not wanting to sleep with a stranger is a completely normal thing among sexual people. Only wanting to have sex with professionals is sexual. Only wanting sex a few times a year is also common among sexual people. Keeping it vanilla is sexual. Oral only is sexual. Not wanting sex because of frustrating experiences with other people is still based on sexuality. People like this can find all sorts of sexual people who go through the same thing. 

 

Personally, though, I would say that someone going through a long term romantic relationship without any sexual attraction to or desire for sex with their partner is an asexual experience. It may be experienced by someone who has had a moment or two of feeling sexual, but if those were fleeting memories of a whimsical youth, I'd think it's reasonable for that person to relate more to asexuality. They're going to find more common ground with asexual people who have also been in long term romantic relationships without any sexual desire for their partner. 

[Ceebs]

@Snao Cone Yeah, I can agree with that for sure. Brief moments of experiencing something, particularly when young and unsure and learning about yourself, can be poor indicators of someone's overall pattern when it comes to their sexuality. I mean, I ID as gay and am even mostly pretty repulsed by heterosexual sex, but when I was younger and figuring shit out, often in a state of drunkenness haha, it would be false to say I never felt interested in sex with guys or never enjoyed anything whatsoever. But "bisexual" is still not a good descriptor of where I've settled.

 

So yeah, agreed.

[StormySky]

It's literally actually in-between, last time I checked.

[Éadweard]

There is and always will be a gray stripe on the OFFICIAL asexual flag. Grays belong. 

[Galactic Turtle]

8 hours ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

There is and always will be a gray stripe on the OFFICIAL asexual flag. Grays belong. 

There's a stripe for everyone on the ace flag. XD

 

No one is voting grays off the island, this thread is just about gray not being asexual as in the asexual orientation. Nothing more.