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Does sex not get boring for you?


ryn2

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Totally agreed on the therapist observation.  The result, though was that once he received his therapist’s blessing he became wholly unwilling to entertain any discussion around the topic at all.

 

It was potentially an issue in the ways you mention early in the relationship (the first five-seven years, say), and was also causing some risky behavior.

 

It’s harder to determine its impact today, since he stopped having any sort of sex with me years ago.  From what little he has described recently, the sex life model he’d like to implement (probably with someone else) is still rather pornish.

 

Now that he has my sexuality to “explain” the situation, he has seemed unwilling to consider any other factors.

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I would suggest not tangling up the porn with the sex and complicating an already complicated situation. For practical purposes, I'd recommend seeing it as two separate things - one of which is your business.

 

Whether he likes porn or there is another reason, your problem is his lack of involvement in your sex life. On a separate note, if there is a porn addiction, it will impact their ability to have IRL sex - whether you or anyone. Even if the porn addiction is a factor in his behavior, it is up to him, whether he wants a declining sex life and a thriving porn life or both, or a better sex life and a reduced porn life or neither. Like a sexual isn't entitled to sex with an ace, or a heterosexual isn't entitled to sex from a homosexual (or vice versa), a sexual partner isn't entitled to being prioritized over porn and getting into that will only make your therapy/counselling messier by derailing it in directions irrelevant to you.

 

If he wants a relationship with you, that is a starting point. What kind of a relationship does he want with you? Is the reality congruent with the intention? If not, what does he plan to do with it? If yes, is your view in agreement with his? And so on with a bottom line of - Is all this acceptable to you? If not, then what will you do?

 

At any given point, your only real choices are for your own actions (hence the porn is a derailment of attention for your purposes)

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The only reason it’s a factor to me at this point is that, if it’s still his standard and model of sexual activity, that’s going to make it harder for us to reach a workable compromise.

 

He doesn’t know if he still wants a relationship with me.  That’s what we are in therapy to help decide.

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If his entire sexual life is revolving around it, including how he is unwilling to expand his sexual exploits, it isnt really a derailment. It is a point of issue. It is up to him if he wants to change it, but he cant judge his spouse against porn and expect a good sex life. And if it is interfering, which it seems to be, then the cause is important for ryn in figuring out if it is a thing they can work on or not. Which... if he is unwilling to even discuss it, it seems a not workable thing. That would be like an ace refusing to discuss their feelings around sex cause they just go "what I feel is fine it isnt an issue in our relationship its off limits".. well, no, if how you feel is causing a rift then its kind of a two person issue and up for discussion if you want improvement.

 

But, sounds like he is unwilling to even try to fix your sex life. And there seem to be things you desire or at least like that he just wont do, while complaining you are the reason sex is missing. Which seems an unfair blame balance, given he hasnt tried to meet you anywhere on making sex better for you. 

 

So if he wont discuss the why besides to blame you and he wont take any suggestions on how you like it, I am not sure what else you can do. You need two to work on things and ... I dont know anyone that would be happy with such a sex life tbh. It is meant to be a two way give and take, with learning your lover and what works for both of you. Not a im doing it this way, like it or not and if you dont im blaming you. 

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I do feel like it’s unfair that he’s  blaming me for everything that’s wrong with our sex life (well, according to him, that’s not fair - he’s not blaming anyone, he’s just attributing it to our differing orientations), not open to discussing it, and then planning to leave over it.  I’m hoping the therapist can help him see why that’s so (or, conversely, help me see why my view of the situation is inaccurate). 

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5 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I do feel like it’s unfair that he’s  blaming me for everything that’s wrong with our sex life (well, according to him, that’s not fair - he’s not blaming anyone, he’s just attributing it to our differing orientations), not open to discussing it, and then planning to leave over it.  I’m hoping the therapist can help him see why that’s so (or, conversely, help me see why my view of the situation is inaccurate). 

I agree that he is being unfair.  This sounds different from the common situation where the sexual person is willing to try to do what they can for the ace person but either the gap is just too big, or on some occasions the ace person is unable / unwilling to make any compromises. 

 

At the very least he should be happy doing his best to please you at least half the time. (that might not be enough but at least it would show that he is willing to try). 

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I think it’s the unfortunate product of more than 20 years of not talking about uncomfortable topics.

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Someone Else

For me personally, "boring" wouldn't be the word.  Just the level of trust and intimacy I'd need to be at that point would be in of itself exciting.  With someone who is attractive in one way or another, a touch or nudity or just the fact that they're just that damned interested in me could be exciting and intimate.  Sex would probably be a bit of an unnecessary nuisance at worst, but all the trappings surrounding it and what it needs to get to that point are exciting to me. 
Sex certainly isn't just a mundane everyday event that is happening too much in my life, or at all, so everyone's mileage may vary.

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1 hour ago, Someone Else said:

Sex would probably be a bit of an unnecessary nuisance at worst, but all the trappings surrounding it and what it needs to get to that point are exciting to me. 

This sounds like the inverse of what I’ve seen from my current and past partners (the trappings are the unnecessary nuisance).

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

In some of these agony aunt columns (no-I don't read these, but come upon them now and again) , even people who are both sexual and in an otherwise happy relationship, seem to have phases of boredom , with mentions of 'vanilla sex', so, I guess it can happen to anyone ace or not.

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On 6/18/2018 at 8:58 PM, ryn2 said:

Sexuals, do you have this same experience?  If not, do you have to work to avoid it or does it just not happen to you?

No, not really. My last partner of 4 years was actually a bit annoyed that I enjoy foreplay so much and "drag things out" but she also enjoyed my creativity. To me, I enjoyed the challenge of always coming up with something unexpected and new, and we didn't even do anything too kinky. I think it comes natural if you enjoy the process and enjoy pleasing your partner as much as they enjoy pleasing you.

 

On 6/18/2018 at 9:18 PM, Salmiakki said:

Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for but I fantasize about sex almost  daily and in the beginning it was pretty "normal" and at first it was exciting enough but then it did get boring and too repetitive so I had to make it more aggressive so it wouldn't be boring anymore. So yeah normal sex is boring and I've realized that I even get bored with the aggressive fantasies so I have to make it even more aggressive 😅 it's the best way to make me orgasm

Oh interesting. I never had that issue with my own fantasies like that, but I like the slow romantic stuff so maybe I'm boring.

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Answering the original question, I will let you know when I have caught up on the 15 year deficit.

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On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 6:09 PM, Telecaster68 said:

From the start, my wife used to blow raspberries on me, just whichever bit  was to hand. 

My ex-gf used to do that... and our sex life dried up pretty fast too. I wonder what it is about me that attracts ACE women?

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Telecaster68
Just now, SG100084 said:

My ex-gf used to do that... and our sex life dried up pretty fast too. I wonder what it is about me that attracts ACE women?

My best guess is that it's a kind of pseudo physical intimacy, but almost infantile (it's what people do to babies, for instance) so not sexual. If a sexual person did it, the playfulness would move onto sex, but for an asexual - not.

 

My real point though was that she just didn't get that me enjoying what she was doing was part of the deal. The concept wasn't in her head. She wanted to do it, and to her it was affectionate. It was kind of beyond her that I didn't, that I had different preferences.

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28 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

My best guess is that it's a kind of pseudo physical intimacy, but almost infantile (it's what people do to babies, for instance) so not sexual.

Some of it may be cultural... here doing it on the torso, thighs, or upper arms is a fairly adult thing (kind of like how tickling sometimes happens with kids but is more sexual between adults) and I always find it a little odd when someone does it to a baby.  That said I’ve only done it when someone has done it to me first.

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31 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

She wanted to do it, and to her it was affectionate. It was kind of beyond her that I didn't, that I had different preferences.

Someone who doesn’t enjoy being touched by others beyond the shared affection of a hug might well not really get it that others get some sort of arousal response to it.  If it’s just a show of affection what matters is the message, not how much the other person enjoys the actual delivery medium.

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Telecaster68
8 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

 

Some of it may be cultural... here doing it on the torso, thighs, or upper arms is a fairly adult thing (kind of like how tickling sometimes happens with kids but is more sexual between adults) and I always find it a little odd when someone does it to a baby.  That said I’ve only done it when someone has done it to me first.

Yes, culturally, it's a kind of playful thing, but you'd only do it someone you're physically intimate with - so parent/close relative to a child, or with a lover. 

 

I honestly didn't mind her trying it a couple of timea: how else do couples figure out what they like, and as kind of play, now and then, it would be okay, in the context of the full spectrum of physical affection from passing touches all the way up to full sex. But I didn't encourage it, then started actively stopping her by physically pulling away, then telling her I didn't like it and could she not do it, none of which she appeared to take in. I had to get properly assertive before she accepted it, and then it seemed to be new information that I didn't like it. I pretty much had to make a consent issue.

 

It's not that she's obviously arrogant; it just doesn't compute to her that other people have different preferences.

 

9 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Someone who doesn’t enjoy being touched by others beyond the shared affection of a hug

If that, apparently, from what she's said. And if you turn this noncomputing thing round, it explains why she doesn't understand that I find shared affection in a hug, because she doesn't have that experience. 

 

13 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

... might well not really get it that others get some sort of arousal response to it. 

It was the opposite of arousal. Just on a sensual level, I don't like the feel of it, as I told her.

 

15 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

 If it’s just a show of affection what matters is the message, not how much the other person enjoys the actual delivery medium.

No. The other person has to be okay with it too, or you could say the same about rape or other violence.

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6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

No. The other person has to be okay with it too, or you could say the same about rape or other violence.

I didn’t mean she should force it on you, just that I can see why she wouldn’t intuitively think of it that way.  I live with a voice-raiser.  It’s the same kind of thing... I hate it, and it hurts me me both physically and emotionally, but he isn’t even aware he does it.

 

9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

And if you turn this noncomputing thing round, it explains why she doesn't understand that I find shared affection in a hug, because she doesn't have that experience. 

Yep, not surprising.  Was she always this way?  It just seems odd now that it wouldn’t have been an issue much earlier.

 

10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

it just doesn't compute to her that other people have different preferences.

That in turn doesn’t compute for me, as I’m almost too in tune to other people’s preferences, but I’ve certainly known other people similar to her.

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Telecaster68
12 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Was she always this way?  It just seems odd now that it wouldn’t have been an issue much earlier.

 

According to her, she has always been this way. But when we were first together, her actions, physically and sexually, didn't match that, although they were always somehow a bit 'off', in a way I couldn't put my finger on. I was always aware she was kind of performing a role for a public. We all do that of course, but this was extra dramatic, almost like a caricature. I assumed that as time went on, that acting would fall away and there'd be a less dramatic, more warts and all version. The acting did fall away, but there's nothing else underneath (she's said this herself). 

18 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

That in turn doesn’t compute for me, as I’m almost too in tune to other people’s preferences, but I’ve certainly known other people similar to her.

I'm the same - almost hypervigilant about other people's reactions, mostly down to childhood issues. Most people are pretty sensitive but have a sense of what's them, and what's other people, that others don't have the same thoughts as them, and learn to draw the appropriate boundaries and temper their own actions in light of others to act fairly. It's called theory of mind, and its absence is at the heart of Asperger's, and that path is how I got to the conclusion that my wife almost certainly has AS (along with a bunch of non-relationship oriented characteristics she has). 

 

I assumed that she'd react broadly the same as I would - and most people would, in my experience - in noticing that I reacted strongly positively to some things sexually, and negatively to others, in terms of body language, verbal appreciation etc. - and focus on the stuff I clearly liked, and stop doing the things I didn't. But she doesn't. It needs to spelled out verbally, firmly and explicitly, and often several times. She doesn't take offence, just accept this as information, because there's no emotional component in the interaction to her. It's just like saying 'if you adjust that bolt, the engine runs better' to her.

 

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If she actually is on the autism spectrum, and also asexual or at least has very limited interest in sex, I can see how your inner life regarding it would be a mystery to her.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

If she actually is on the autism spectrum, and also asexual or at least has very limited interest in sex, I can see how your inner life regarding it would be a mystery to her.

A mystery she's not interested in.... 'why would I be interested in what's going on in your head?' as she said...

 

As I've often pointed out, there's a strong correlation between asexuality (and other non-normative orientations and genders) and autism.

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It makes total sense that people who have little interest in human interaction (in any sense), or strong gender dysphoria, or other mental health challenges that make interacting with others difficult, would also have less interest in (or more fear of) forming and sustaining sexual bonds.  It’s when I see people trying to generalize in the opposite direction (e.g., a disproportionate number of people with autism consider themselves asexual, therefore asexual people are often autistic) that I’m concerned.

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Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

 It’s when I see people trying to generalize in the opposite direction (e.g., a disproportionate number of people with autism consider themselves asexual, therefore asexual people are often autistic) that I’m concerned.

Sometimes the truth is inconvenient, but that's the logic of the position. If the incidence of asexuality amongst people with AS is higher than the general population, asexual people are more likely to be on the spectrum than sexual people are.

 

The proportion of people with AS is 1%. Have a look round AVEN; the number of people with AS/autism - it's very obviously way higher than 1%, even if you just look at people saying they're on the spectrum, let alone the posts which are highly consistent with aspy traits.

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13 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Sometimes the truth is inconvenient, but that's the logic of the position. If the incidence of asexuality amongst people with AS is higher than the general population, asexual people are more likely to be on the spectrum than sexual people are.

Agreed, but people sometimes go a step further and assume that means any given ace person is also on the autism spectrum (and then refuse to be dissuaded).  That’s why it concerns me.

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16 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

The proportion of people with AS is 1%.

It’s close to 2% here.

 

In terms of what we see here on AVEN, it’s hard to say...  AVEN has a lot of members but the majority do not post.  Just like the internet platform preselects for introversion, it may also preselect for other things which favor written, asynchronous communication over real-time, face-to-face interaction.

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Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

Agreed, but people sometimes go a step further and assume that means any given ace person is also on the autism spectrum (and then refuse to be dissuaded).  That’s why it concerns me.

They do, and that misperception needs to be pointed out. I don't think denying there's any link (which also happens) is helpful either. If nothing else, understanding that a condition which profoundly affects how you relate to people may well be linked to why someone (say) hates being touched and gets panicked by any emotional connection is going to make it easier to manage day to day.

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Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It’s close to 2% here.

 

In terms of what we see here on AVEN, it’s hard to say...  AVEN has a lot of members but the majority do not post.  Just like the internet platform preselects for introversion, it may also preselect for other things which favor written, asynchronous communication over real-time, face-to-face interaction.

True, but the AVEN/aspie overlap seems larger than that would account for, to me, especially when you consider the rock-solid research about the correlation and that non-face to face interaction and introversion are also common aspie traits.

 

This is getting into the 'needs more research' territory, but to me, it's very plausible and seems true on the face of it.

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I have no quarrel with the idea that the percentage of ace (or at least functionally ace) people with autism is higher than it is in the general population (or vice versa).  It just irks me when people extend that to “oh, well, you’re ace... so of course you xyz since you’re probably ‘on the spectrum’ anyway.”

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes it must be annoying if you're not. 

Yep.  It likely annoys me more than others, too, as I grew up with extensive gaslighting and being told how I feel (especially by someone who then goes on to argue with me about it) grates on me.  I’m consequently very aware that feelings are not necessarily visible as (and cannot be reliably discerned from) actions.

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