Jump to content
ryn2

Another comparison...

Recommended Posts

vega57
6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I agree it's different, but it's seeming like from Vega there's expected to be an unending series of get outs for asexuals, so they can just agree to anything to make an uncomfortable conversation end, and then continue as though they hadn't committed to anything. When the sexual partner objects, they're being unreasonable. 

You're putting words in my mouth.  Again.  Never even came close to saying this, Tele.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So why agree to something they can't follow through? It just makes things worse. 

Because the fact there IS a Talk at all often explicitly or implicitly applies that no change means something bad is going to happen, and they may genuinely want to avoid/prevent that at the time of the talk.

 

As more time elapses the sense of urgency often fades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

So in fact the sexual partner is trying to find an agreed way forward, and the asexual agrees to trying something with no real intent that it might work.

 

Can you see how this gets frustrating and infuriating, quite apart from the lack of sex? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vega57
6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Again, why agree to it then? 

Why ask them to do it in the first place?  I mean, if you KNOW that it's something that they're not too keen on doing, why even bother make an agreement that they'll do MORE of something you KNOW they don't like doing?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, vega57 said:

You're putting words in my mouth.  Again.  Never even came close to saying this, Tele.  

So use your own words. 

 

Is it okay for the asexual to agree to do something then make no attempt to do it? 

 

There are two possible words: 'yes' and 'no'. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Because the fact there IS a Talk at all often explicitly or implicitly applies that no change means something bad is going to happen, and they may genuinely want to avoid/prevent that at the time of the talk.

 

As more time elapses the sense of urgency often fades.

That's pretty much what I said - say anything to stop the uncomfortable conversation. After the third or fourth time, isn't it going to be in someone's mind that it didn't happen the previous times so it's unlikely to this time? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vega57
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

So use your own words. 

 

Is it okay for the asexual to agree to do something then make no attempt to do it? 

 

There are two possible words: 'yes' and 'no'. 

When they agreed to do this or that, was the asexuality out in the open?  Did you BOTH know about the asexuality?  Did you BOTH know what asexuality is?   I mean, it wouldn't make any sense if *you* knew what asexuality is and yet tried to get your partner to make an agreement with you to have sex more frequently, then holding it against them, if they don't.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
Just now, Telecaster68 said:

That's pretty much what I said - say anything to stop the uncomfortable conversation. After the third or fourth time, isn't it going to be in someone's mind that it didn't happen the previous times so it's unlikely to this time? 

No, it’s not that.  It’s often genuinely agreeing in the moment.  That doesn’t necessarily translate into action over time.

 

You never did address what the point of agreeing if it’s no good without desire is, though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

And yet again... avoiding a straight answer. 

 

People can draw their own conclusions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2

A similar but non-sex example:  say you to speak loudly.  Even if you know your spouse doesn’t like it, and you try very hard to keep it in mind, you will probably slip up when emotional (good or bad) and need frequent reminders.  If you naturally speak quietly, it’s easy to comply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

No, it’s not that.  It’s often genuinely agreeing in the moment.  That doesn’t necessarily translate into action over time.

 

You never did address what the point of agreeing if it’s no good without desire is, though...

The mixed relationships that work are the ones that get past the desire element and the sexual can accept that sexual activity is offered because the asexual understands it's important to their partner, and maybe even gets some enjoyment on that basis, so it could be the start of negotiating that. The ones that don't work are hardly ever just about lack of sex, but lack of concern and engagement from one side or the other. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

And yet again... avoiding a straight answer. 

 

People can draw their own conclusions. 

Was that for me or vega?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

A similar but non-sex example:  say you to speak loudly.  Even if you know your spouse doesn’t like it, and you try very hard to keep it in mind, you will probably slip up when emotional (good or bad) and need frequent reminders.  If you naturally speak quietly, it’s easy to comply.

Yes but it would be reasonable to expect the loud speaker not just to forget all about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Was that for me or vega?

Vega. 

 

You're being very straight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SusannaC

I see that back rub/cooking are poor analogies for sex in this situation.  I was just thinking if sex is a neutral activity- not terribly offensive- to the asexual.   Sorry but it’s still just so so so difficult to wrap my mind around the idea that sex could be so very UNPLEASANT and therefore emotionally draining.  Cooking and back rubs certainly aren’t repulsive to me- though I can get annoyed sometimes and consequently drained because I’m already tired before I begin. I just have to conclude from reading all of these comments, that this is an unworkable situation for the most part.  Sorry everybody, but I see no resolution that will be happy for both parties.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
max9701
59 minutes ago, vega57 said:

And asking or expecting a partner to do something that you KNOW the partner is uninterested in doing is also a pretty selfish way to behave in a relationship.  

Any relationship has a ton of that. Does every person really WANT to go to their partner's family get-togethers? To every movie they want to see? To a mall to spend three hours shopping for pants? 

 

Relationships are full of compromise. If an asexual partner wants their sexual partner to be happy, sex is something they'll have to do sometimes, even if they find it uninteresting. 

 

Of course, if they're sex-repulsed or otherwise find it miserable, that's a different story, requiring a different compromise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
max9701
1 minute ago, mzmolly65 said:

I can understand her perception.  When your entire life experience surrounding sex has not been pleasurable, it begins to look as if everyone else is faking.  I watch those scenes and just cringe because to me it's a huge farce that in no way resembles any experience I have ever had.  There are some t.v. shows that have sex scenes every 5 or 10 minutes and I really start to wonder if the writer's/producer .. whoever .. is a sex addict that's having trouble focusing on anything else.

I got a sense of this once, with a movie my wife rented. If you remember "American Pie," this was basically a low-budget version of the same story, but featuring exclusively gay males looking to lose their virginity to other males. Comparing the two, while I found the original funny and relatable, the gay version (since I don't feel any desires comparable to the character's) just seemed goofy, a bunch of kids doing dumb things for no good reason.

 

I imagine that asexuals might view most sexual material in a similar light?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vega57
5 minutes ago, max9701 said:

I got a sense of this once, with a movie my wife rented. If you remember "American Pie," this was basically a low-budget version of the same story, but featuring exclusively gay males looking to lose their virginity to other males. Comparing the two, while I found the original funny and relatable, the gay version (since I don't feel any desires comparable to the character's) just seemed goofy, a bunch of kids doing dumb things for no good reason.

 

I imagine that asexuals might view most sexual material in a similar light?

Pretty close...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uhtred
2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I do now, but I didn’t years ago when the examples I was thinking of took place.  I had a similar-sounding view of sex to your wife’s and was annoyed about always getting stuck with ridiculous, demanding men.  Despite that I couldn’t possibly have missed that they were disgruntled, or somehow thought my telling them off was schooling them in some way.

 

I may have misjudged the actual problem but it was clear there was one.

 

That’s what threw me off in my current relationship.  There wasn’t any of that stuff to go on.

It would help me understand if you could describe how how ended up with views like my wife's, and what things changed or didn't change them.  I think I would be a lot happier if at least she seemed to understand the issue, rather than dismissing it as trivial.  What were / are your sources of information on typical human sexual behavior?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uhtred
33 minutes ago, mzmolly65 said:

I can understand her perception.  When your entire life experience surrounding sex has not been pleasurable, it begins to look as if everyone else is faking.  I watch those scenes and just cringe because to me it's a huge farce that in no way resembles any experience I have ever had.  There are some t.v. shows that have sex scenes every 5 or 10 minutes and I really start to wonder if the writer's/producer .. whoever .. is a sex addict that's having trouble focusing on anything else.

Yes I can see that.  OTOH, didn't it seem strange that so many people would be faking their interest? Maybe its just difficult to imagine that other people are different - that seems to be pretty common for people

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
49 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes but it would be reasonable to expect the loud speaker not just to forget all about it. 

Forget like “we never talked about that before”?  Agreed.

 

Forget like still doing it and then, after the fact, going “oh, s**t, you brought that up last month”?  That’s going to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
49 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

Sorry but it’s still just so so so difficult to wrap my mind around the idea that sex could be so very UNPLEASANT and therefore emotionally draining.

Things can be neutral or even pleasant and still emotionally draining.  E.g., an introvert at a party (wedding reception, say) where lot of interaction and engagement is required.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
50 minutes ago, max9701 said:

Any relationship has a ton of that. Does every person really WANT to go to their partner's family get-togethers? To every movie they want to see? To a mall to spend three hours shopping for pants? 

 

Relationships are full of compromise. If an asexual partner wants their sexual partner to be happy, sex is something they'll have to do sometimes, even if they find it uninteresting. 

 

Of course, if they're sex-repulsed or otherwise find it miserable, that's a different story, requiring a different compromise.

This is why I circled back around to Tele.  Compromising may make sense if sex without desire is sufficient.  Some posters have said that - for them, at least - it isn’t sufficient... that there must be desire.

 

No amount of asking for desire, asking for commitments to get in the mood, etc., is going to get results.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uhtred

As a few examples of "agreeing"  / miscommunication / whatever.

 

Wife and I travel a lot. Before almost every trip she talks about the great romantic places we are staying, and talks about the schedule allowing lots of time to "cuddle" (eg sex) in the room.  Before the trip she makes sure to pack a sex toy.  We haven't had sex on a trip in the last > 10 trips, maybe more.  I stopped even hinting at it over a year ago.

 

Wife has complained that sex has become too uncomfortable. Agrees that its because it is so rare and agrees that we should try playing with small toys a couple of times a week to get her comfortable again.  Agrees that she wants intercourse again, says its her favorite thing.  Its been about a year now.  Had this discussion, she initiated it, 3 times.  Each time we had sex a few times over 2 weeks, then a variety of reasons came up and we stopped.

 

On some occasions when we are intimate, I've suggested something I'd like to do - something she had done before and claimed to enjoy.  Each time she has said ... maybe not this time, but next time.  Never happens (years).  

 

Perhaps most ridiculous, why buy lots of slinky lingerie for me to see her in, but wear it when she has no interest in having sex. ?????? why? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uhtred
2 minutes ago, mzmolly65 said:

Not at all .. sex sells.  Marketers will stick that sh!t everywhere just to make money AND it's created a crazy market in where sex is in everything so you can't really get away from it so the marketers then think, "well that's working, let's keep doing it".  I have been to other countries where sex is not everywhere.  You can watch t.v. or read a magazine and it's not shoved down your throat.  it's a very refreshing change and their society seems to function just fine.

But doesn't sex sell because most people are very interested in it?   I agree that its more common in the US than some places, though less than in others.

 

Maybe it seems like a small percentage of people are responsible for consuming most sexual media?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...