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ryn2

Another comparison...

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Telecaster68
8 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

But that would be “just trust” or “just conflicting morals.”

There would be specific ways that lack of trust, or the conflicting morals played out ('he was gambling with my credit card', 'he joined a violent alt.right group'), and presumably there'd be emotional distress over that too, and self doubt over who you've got involved with, etc.

 

But you're right in a way it is different: none of those things would make a sexual person question their fundamental attractiveness.

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ryn2
3 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

I would not have to hide my spouse's health condition from the world. It is a suffering people would be aware of and have sympathy for – if not explicitly around "intimate relations", then broadly with the struggle of caring for disability (within which sadness around intimacy would fit).

So this would be more like someone disabled by a mental health issue, or by an injury stemming from something socially unacceptable (failed suicide attempt, OD, alcohol abuse, etc.)?

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Telecaster68
4 minutes ago, uhtred said:

The sad truth of course is that NOTHING will make the asexual want sex.  I've given up trying, there is not win in that direction. 

 

Leave, cheat, live like a monk / nun.     It will NEVER get better. 

But often in the early stages, neither side knows this. If the asexual does know, they may feel too anxious to let on.

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ryn2
Just now, Telecaster68 said:

But often in the early stages, neither side knows this. If the asexual does know, they may feel too anxious to let on.

I think the right advice early on in a relationship is not necessarily the same as the right advice much later on, for a wide variety of reasons.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

So this would be more like someone disabled by a mental health issue, or by an injury stemming from something socially unacceptable (failed suicide attempt, OD, alcohol abuse, etc.)?

For me, there would be an element of assuming other people would think they were only hearing half the story - that my asexual partner wasn't actually asexual but had justified reasons for not wanting sex that I wasn't telling other people. Asexuals aren't the only ones who have a version of 'coming out' over this.

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

This was the “forgetting” post.

It's not really about 'urges' though. It's about remembering something that's important to your relationship and partner, that you (generic you) have discussed and presumably agreed is important.

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ryn2
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

For me, there would be an element of assuming other people would think they were only hearing half the story - that my asexual partner wasn't actually asexual but had justified reasons for not wanting sex that I wasn't telling other people. Asexuals aren't the only ones who have a version of 'coming out' over this.

Well, that’s often true with mental health and substance abuse situations as well.  People don’t understand, jump to conclusions, “other,” and judge.  Typically one only finds real acceptance and support in a community of people whose partners/friends/family are facing similar struggles, and even then finding people who share other compatible values can be a challenge.

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uhtred
5 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Interesting.  I’ve definitely been insensitive (sometimes justifiably, sometimes less/not so) about past sexual partners’ complaints but the net result wasn’t/wouldn’t have been shock so much as resignation with a side of anger.

 

In those cases I 100% knew they were unhappy.  I might have (mis)judged their concerns as trivial and shallow, but that didn’t stop me from seeing the end looming.

I think that there is a lot of variation. You recognize that you are asexual and that not everyone is like you.  Some asexuals do not recognize that many other people have different views about sex.  Some (like my wife) seem to think that the depiction of sex in media is completely unrealistic. That "real" people only occasionally have sex and only in very limited ways - mostly done as a favor to the man.

 

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uhtred
6 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I think the right advice early on in a relationship is not necessarily the same as the right advice much later on, for a wide variety of reasons.

Yes.   For new relationships I strongly advise leaving. For long term relationships, it is far more difficult. 

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Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

Well, that’s often true with mental health and substance abuse situations as well.  People don’t understand, jump to conclusions, “other,” and judge.  Typically one only finds real acceptance and support in a community of people whose partners/friends/family are facing similar struggles, and even then finding people who share other compatible values can be a challenge.

Yes, to that extent, it's similar. I have a similar issue with my wife's aspie characteristics, particularly as the differences between male and female aspies are only just getting explored, and she's adept at masking her aspiness in social situations.

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ryn2
Just now, Telecaster68 said:

It's not really about 'urges' though. It's about remembering something that's important to your relationship and partner, that you (generic you) have discussed and presumably agreed is important.

I have to put things like that on a calendar or I invariably remember them too late (e.g., significant dates).  Anyone waiting for me to spontaneously become aware of something at a convenient time is going to be sorely disappointed.

 

This is despite my having excellent recall overall.  I’m sure it confused people.  I’ve learned lots of ways to work around it overall but anything that looks spontaneous absolutely isn’t behind the scenes.

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ryn2
3 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I think that there is a lot of variation. You recognize that you are asexual and that not everyone is like you.  Some asexuals do not recognize that many other people have different views about sex.  Some (like my wife) seem to think that the depiction of sex in media is completely unrealistic. That "real" people only occasionally have sex and only in very limited ways - mostly done as a favor to the man.

 

I do now, but I didn’t years ago when the examples I was thinking of took place.  I had a similar-sounding view of sex to your wife’s and was annoyed about always getting stuck with ridiculous, demanding men.  Despite that I couldn’t possibly have missed that they were disgruntled, or somehow thought my telling them off was schooling them in some way.

 

I may have misjudged the actual problem but it was clear there was one.

 

That’s what threw me off in my current relationship.  There wasn’t any of that stuff to go on.

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Telecaster68

If the issue was, say, remembering to share taking the contents of interior bins to the main wheelie bin (or whatever), would be likely to forget it after a couple of days? It's not something like a birthday, or something you'll come back to in a couple of weeks, but action over a shift of priorities?

 

(Really not having a go here... just interested). 

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ryn2
10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

If the issue was, say, remembering to share taking the contents of interior bins to the main wheelie bin (or whatever), would be likely to forget it after a couple of days? It's not something like a birthday, or something you'll come back to in a couple of weeks, but action over a shift of priorities?

 

(Really not having a go here... just interested). 

Probably, if there wasn’t weekly garbage day.  If it was just me and the garbage started climbing out of the indoor trash can I would see the issue and be reminded, but if someone in my household was (silently stewing over) always taking it out before it got to that point - and there was no weekly collection schedule to march to - I would likely go a long time before realizing I wasn’t doing my share of the garbage.  I’m speculating, though, as I have never lived with such a person.

 

Also, if it was just a couple of days I might remember (although for whatever reason specific days work much better than “every other day” or “every third day,” where I quickly forget what’s an “on” day v. an “off”

day... I use reminders and daily pill containers and the like for that sort of thing).  The longer the interval, the faster things go out of mind.

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Telecaster68

So what if you had a clearly disgruntled/anticipatory partner in front of you, a couple of days after you'd discussed the reasons for his general disgruntlement?

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ryn2

E.g., I fuel my car every Saturday.  If I miss a week it’s highly likely I will unconsciously check it off (gas?  Nope, not Saturday) and not remember to watch the gauge until the following week.  This is a recipe for getting towed.

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ryn2
5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So what if you had a clearly disgruntled/anticipatory partner in front of you, a couple of days after you'd discussed the reasons for his general disgruntlement?

Like I said above, when that has happened I have (perhaps reacted inappropriately, but) known there was an issue.  I (as I also said above) am not sure how someone regularly faced with that would be blindsided upon learning something was wrong.

 

My current partner expressed concerns about sexual (in)frequency directly three times in 22 years, and made a few other vague remarks I now see may have had the same intent over a few weeks in 2012 or 2013.

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Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Like I said above, when that has happened I have (perhaps reacted inappropriately, but) known there was an issue.  I (as I also said above) am not sure how someone regularly faced with that would be blindsided upon learning something was wrong.

 

My current partner expressed concerns about sexual (in)frequency directly three times in 22 years, and made a few other vague remarks I now see may have had the same intent over a few weeks in 2012 or 2013.

I was thinking in the days/weeks immediately following a Talk, in which you (someone) agreed it needed working on.

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vega57
6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I was thinking in the days/weeks immediately following a Talk, in which you (someone) agreed it needed working on.

Hmm...  interesting.  

 

I wonder if feeling the 'urge' to have sex is realistically something that two people can 'agree' on...

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Telecaster68

It's not about an urge. It's about remembering something that is of concern to your partner and your relationship that you've agreed you'll try to have more on your radar. 

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vega57
8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's not about an urge. It's about remembering something that is of concern to your partner and your relationship that you've agreed you'll try to have more on your radar. 

I could "remember" that something is of concern to my partner.  I could "remember" that every day.  

 

Doesn't mean that I'll DO anything about it, especially every day.  

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Telecaster68

Choosing not to do something you know is of substantial concern to your partner, after you've agreed you would, is a pretty selfish way to behave in a relationship. 

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ryn2
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I was thinking in the days/weeks immediately following a Talk, in which you (someone) agreed it needed working on.

What part did I not answer?

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ryn2
15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's not about an urge. It's about remembering something that is of concern to your partner and your relationship that you've agreed you'll try to have more on your radar. 

What would the point be if it’s not adequate without desire?

 

Personally I would not agree to keep something on my radar that can’t go in a list, post-it, or reminder, but that’s potentially just me.

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vega57
8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Choosing not to do something you know is of substantial concern to your partner, after you've agreed you would, is a pretty selfish way to behave in a relationship. 

And asking or expecting a partner to do something that you KNOW the partner is uninterested in doing is also a pretty selfish way to behave in a relationship.  

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ryn2
7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Choosing not to do something you know is of substantial concern to your partner, after you've agreed you would, is a pretty selfish way to behave in a relationship. 

Again, if just going through the motions without desire is insufficient, what would the point be?  Spreading the dissatisfaction so both parties are equally miserable?

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Telecaster68

It sounds like you were talking about reactions to it being brought up for the first time. I was thinking about being aware that since a Talk, initiating sex might be a a good thing, by way way of following through on that discussion, for example. 

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Telecaster68

Both 

 

But this is a situation where it's been discussed, the asexual has said they're willing to try to be more sexual. It sounds like you don't feel they have any obligation to follow through on what they've agreed. 

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vega57
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Again, if just going through the motions without desire is insufficient, what would the point be?  Spreading the dissatisfaction so both parties are equally miserable?

The whole attitude reminds me of WHY so many asexuals get involved with sexuals in the first place, only to discover their asexuality LATER ON in their relationship.  We are told, "Have sex".  And if we're not interested (whether we are asexual and don't know it/asexual and know it/sexual and simply not interested at that particular time), DO IT ANYWAY!  The hell with 'desire'  or libido, just DO IT!  

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Telecaster68

Do you know about responsive desire Vega? 

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