Non-binary is just the beginning

[Dawning]

 

This is my first time telling people these things. I think I’ve finally found reasonable terms to describe myself, but I’m eager to hear about any other terms that might be an even better fit, so please feel free to toss out anything that comes to mind.

 

My overall view, which does not imply criticism of those with different preferences, is; I want words to describe myself that say who I am, not who I am not. I want to avoid words that include things like: a-, non-, un-, neut-, -less, -free, etc. I am not defined by lacking things that so-called “normal” people have, any more than they are defined by lacking things that I have, or by my relationship to the “binary norm.”

 

I’m not part of any norm. Sexual orientation, romantic orientation, gender; all far enough from the experience of the average person that I am just now, well into middle-age, finally getting myself sorted out.

 

My sexual orientation is the easy one: I've never felt sexual attraction or desire, so obviously I’m asexual. If anyone has a better term for it that doesn't suggest the lack of something or the reproduction of the lowest life forms, I’d be thrilled to hear it, though, LOL.

 

 

Edit 1-23-22: It’s been a long time since I felt this stuff, so I just realized that I must be DEMIromantic; I’ve never felt romantic feelings before having an established connection. It’s also possible that I’m aromantic now, and that’s why it’s been so long… I guess I won’t know until I either have romantic feelings again, or so much time passes without it that I can feel confident that it’s a done deal. For now: poly-demiromantic.

 

Edit 6-9-21: After a year and a half, I was beginning to be pretty confident that I had my gender completely figured out… and then I FELT my gender shift! I described it here: 

This means that I'm actually GENDERFLUID... And more precisely, since I'm agender the overwhelming majority of the time, Librafluid. As always, I'll continue to leave my previous entries down below, so anyone who's interested can see my full gender journey.

 

Edit 11-20-19: I experienced a brief flicker of something that I can only describe as maleness! This makes it clear that I'm NOT agender, by definition, and this helps me to realize that I've had flickers of female gendered feeling in the past as well, but because of my autism and alexithymia I didn't recognize them for what they were… I wrote about it at length here:

 

So, with both male and female feeling, but very little, I'm adopting the convention from demi-boy and demi-girl to use what is a correct term, although not seen often because most people with male and female are genderfluid; demi-androgyne.

 

 

Edit 2-28-19: The process has moved a little further along, much to my amazement; as before, I'm leaving all my original stuff below the line so that anyone who's interested can see the process. What I've realized is that I experience something besides romantic attraction; for some people, I feel alterous attraction, which appears to roughly mean an attraction that isn't purely platonic but is not romantic either. I don't know how that works with aromantic people, but I'm capable of being attracted to someone in such a way that I definitely want to be more than a friend, and have something like a romantic relationship, but without those specific feelings and actions that define romantic attraction... and all of this seen through the lens of my autism, of course.

 

In addition, I’ve realized that, not having met people of every kind of gender, I can’t be certain that I’d have romantic and/or alterous attraction to all of them, so I can’t justify using pan-; I’m therefore switching to poly-.

 

So now I'm:

 

(Endo) polyromantic AND polyalterous... and I think polysensual too.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

Edit 6-23-18: What I originally said is below the line; I have left it there so that people could see the process I'm going through. It was bothering me that, because of my autism, there were no words to describe my kinds of attractions, and I didn't have a solid fit for romantic orientation either. I needed a new term, so I created one:

 

 

Thus, my gender identification, for the sake of consistency, is now: Endospectrum-Maverique, or Endo-Maverique

 

My romantic orientation is: Endo-Panromantic 

 

My sensual orientation is: Endo-Pansensual

 

This is my gender symbol:

.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

 

The best term I have found for my romantic orientation is: Gray-Panromantic

 

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Gray-romantic

 

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Panromantic

 

My gender: That’s where it gets really difficult, because I’m apparently way out there on the fringes. I am totally outside the universe of the binary. Not only do I have no gender-related feelings whatsoever, I honestly have no idea what people mean when they say that they feel like a particular gender, any gender.

 

This is apparently common enough amongst those who are autistic, like me, that there is a term for it: autigender:

 

https://candidlyautistic.tumblr.com/post/163767993845/what-exactly-is-autigender-ive-seen-it-used-a

 

Some people consider this to be their full gender designation; I don’t go that far, I’m more in line with what that article says, that my gender perception cannot be disentangled from my autism, so my autism has to be considered a part of my gender, although I wasn't sure how to do that at first.

 

As I read more, I discovered that some people have dysphoria about their non-binary gender, which I don’t and never have, that some people want to transition to a body with no gender characteristics, which I don’t and never have, and that some people wish to present themselves in a way that would not indicate gender, which I don’t and never have. I also read about people who truly see themselves as not only not possessing any part of binary gender, but no gender at all… there's no way to describe how this could be without using terms that would inevitably offend someone, but that wasn’t me either, because I still felt like a gendered being in a way that I still can’t describe. At that point in my research, the problem was that the terms that described possessing no hint of the standard binary genders included or suggested some of these characteristics, and so did not apply to me. I was definitely suffering from inadequate fit with the terms that were defining the agender universe.

 

I needed a term that placed me in the agender universe, but that avoided all the above problems, and the closest that I have found so far is:

 

“Maverique (pronounced mav-reek) is a specific nonbinary gender identity "characterized by autonomy and inner conviction regarding a sense of self that is entirely independent of male/masculinity, female/femininity or anything which derives from the two while still being neither without gender nor of a neutral gender." “

 

http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Maverique

 

And here’s a great article describing some of the reasons why this term is superior to any of those that suggest a neutral or nonexistent gender (other than that they define non-binary people in relation to the binary):

 

http://queerascat.tumblr.com/post/88861493366/maverique-why-i-coined-the-word

 

Are there any better, maybe less-complicated terms for what I’ve described? Does any of this stuff ring true for anybody else here?

[4108bn]

I'm on the autism spectrum, and this is the first time ever hearing about autigender, but it makes an incredible amount of sense. I've spoken to the fact that I don't feel bodily dysphoric, but socially in terms of gender. I don't understand the attachment to gender in the way others experience it, and it's really reassuring to know that it's very possibly tied to being autistic for me. I've thought in the past that I may be happier as another gender, but after deeper introspection and more time with myself, I realized that what I feel is also outside of the binary entirely, and even outside of femininity and masculinity. I thought the term agender felt appropriate, yet I haven't really come out as anything yet (because all of this discovery has been fairly recent), and I felt as if something was missing like you have. I feel that my identities would be more comfortable for me if they weren't about the lack of other identities I feel. I also don't feel as comfortable claiming a specific term about what I identify as gender-wise, nor am I super attached to finding one that fits. It's just reassuring to know that they do/will exist. I also like that autigender, in particular, is more tied to the sense of identity in our relationship with gender rather than gender itself.

[Dawning]

I'm so relieved that somebody can relate to much of what I've been experiencing! I don't think you need to be in any hurry to apply any terms or labels to yourself; it was only yesterday that I suddenly had the urge to do the research on all these new terms that have suddenly appeared on the internet, and sort myself completely out, and I've known for years and years that I wasn't experiencing "normal" gender feelings.

 

I don't feel bodily dysphoric either, just for the record, but I have always felt pretty much indifferent to the naughty bits, and even to my physical existence as a whole; I have often joked that I would be a perfect candidate to be a brain in a jar like they used to have in some of the sillier sci-fi stories.

[CuddleAlien]

Hey there!

I'm also on the spectrum and I can relate a lot to what you feel.

I struggled with my gender for a good part of my life. As a child I had a time I refused to call myself she and cut my hair and pretended to be a boy.

I don't exactly remember when it stopped.... but someday I realized that I don't have to be a typical girl/woman to be a girl/woman....

 

I like how I look as a female and I wouldn't want to have a male body.  But I don't behave like a typical female. I can be quite girlish if I want and if I'm among the right people. But most of the time I'm more of a tomboy, a PC geek, a gamer and fascinated with probably anything "typical" women aren't. And couldn't care less for "typical" women stuff. (like makeup and such)

 

So... what is my real gender? I don't know! XD And I honestly don't care anymore.

 

Just know, you are not alone. :3

I also heard it is quite common for autistic people to struggle with gender. It's quite interesting. I wonder if it is because we really are not either one... or if our brains just don't need that sort of identity. 🐧

 

Either way. Have a hug and I heard it's also common to bring some cake for new people!
So... 

 

[Dawning]

Another person on the spectrum who can relate… that is REALLY interesting! Maybe there are more of us than we think with these issues? Thank you for the hug and the cake! 

[ElasticPlanet]

3 hours ago, Dawning said:

I honestly have no idea what people mean when they say that they feel like a particular gender

I struggled with this one too. For me there were really two steps to getting through it to some kind of answer. Maybe these clues will help you too...

 

First I needed to break gender down into different aspects, because I don't have the same feelings about all its component parts. Social gender is about how people think of you and talk about you; how they categorise you as this or that kind of person. Body gender is about what kind of body you want or need to live in. How you present yourself to the world, and whether there's any gender role component in your work or leisure, may be important too. I had to think about these things separately to see what I felt about each and which were more important.

 

While all that was going on in my head, I felt I wanted to be agender but couldn't tell whether I actually was agender. At the time the unanswered question was infuriating. The way I've come to understand gender identity since then is more or less: wanting to be a thing is being that thing. Especially as far as the social aspect of gender is concerned; that is the basis of my agender label.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

@Dawning's thoughts are so interesting to me as yet another "non-binary" (for want of a better word) on the spectrum. I don't know if my need to identify as something on the gender spectrum rather than agender or maverique stems from my Aspie need to classify and label according to a logical system....

[ElasticPlanet]

2 minutes ago, Celyn said:

need to classify and label according to a logical system

That's me too. Preferably a graph or table, not just a bunch of words. Even though I feel unable to choose which binary gender I'd rather have been assigned at birth, I'm definitely glad I was built with a visual-spatial brain. Even if that's somewhat of a male thing, I don't care. :)

[Starbogen]

2 hours ago, ElasticPlanet said:

I struggled with this one too. For me there were really two steps to getting through it to some kind of answer. Maybe these clues will help you too...

 

First I needed to break gender down into different aspects, because I don't have the same feelings about all its component parts. Social gender is about how people think of you and talk about you; how they categorise you as this or that kind of person. Body gender is about what kind of body you want or need to live in. How you present yourself to the world, and whether there's any gender role component in your work or leisure, may be important too. I had to think about these things separately to see what I felt about each and which were more important.

 

While all that was going on in my head, I felt I wanted to be agender but couldn't tell whether I actually was agender. At the time the unanswered question was infuriating. The way I've come to understand gender identity since then is more or less: wanting to be a thing is being that thing. Especially as far as the social aspect of gender is concerned; that is the basis of my agender label.

This is pretty much what I wanted to comment too.

 

I also didn't, and don't, "feel" like a gender. But over time I realized that neither do a lot of other people who identify within the binary  regardless of if they're cis or trans. And I also came to think of gender as that consistently "wanting" to be a gender or like a gender meant identifying eith it and therefore being it. I wanted to look male and be treated as male and I prefered seeing myself as male so, I'm male.

[ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø]

I have Asperger's and I consider myself male, but only in the physical form. I understand that the very essence of you (the soul, God, etc.) really has no gender, hence I'm unattached to being male.

[ElasticPlanet]

19 minutes ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

I consider myself male, but only in the physical form

You see, the physical form is what I thought the definition of male was until only a few years ago. That's why I had nowhere to go. Implicitly coerced into living as reluctant male for decades, unable to see that my reluctance was unusual. Unable to see that nonbinary was a real thing or that it included me.

[Dawning]

11 hours ago, ElasticPlanet said:

I struggled with this one too. For me there were really two steps to getting through it to some kind of answer. Maybe these clues will help you too...

 

First I needed to break gender down into different aspects, because I don't have the same feelings about all its component parts. Social gender is about how people think of you and talk about you; how they categorise you as this or that kind of person. Body gender is about what kind of body you want or need to live in. How you present yourself to the world, and whether there's any gender role component in your work or leisure, may be important too. I had to think about these things separately to see what I felt about each and which were more important.

 

While all that was going on in my head, I felt I wanted to be agender but couldn't tell whether I actually was agender. At the time the unanswered question was infuriating. The way I've come to understand gender identity since then is more or less: wanting to be a thing is being that thing. Especially as far as the social aspect of gender is concerned; that is the basis of my agender label.

That was a really smart way of working through an issue that there is no so societal guidance about! I pondered it a little bit, but I am so very detached from, and indifferent to, all aspects of gender, that the only feeling I have about any of that stuff is my normal feeling about gender issues; puzzlement. My body is healthy and functional, and looking pretty good for my age (I don't want to attract anybody, but it's no secret that the more attractive you are, the easier your life will be), and that's pretty much all that matters to me. 

 

In a way, this is less of an issue for me, because I don't have to act or present myself in any particular way for people to see and accept me as the female I appear to be. How have you chosen to function around society at large? Have you had any difficulties being accepted?

[Dawning]

12 hours ago, Celyn said:

@Dawning's thoughts are so interesting to me as yet another "non-binary" (for want of a better word) on the spectrum. I don't know if my need to identify as something on the gender spectrum rather than agender or maverique stems from my Aspie need to classify and label according to a logical system....

 Wow, I was totally not expecting to find so many other people on the spectrum here! I think you should identify however you feel like identifying, but ideally it would represent what you feel, and not what the binary majority have convinced you are the only choices from which you are allowed to pick. Did any part of the Autigender concept ring true to you?

[Dawning]

13 hours ago, ElasticPlanet said:

That's me too. Preferably a graph or table, not just a bunch of words. Even though I feel unable to choose which binary gender I'd rather have been assigned at birth, I'm definitely glad I was built with a visual-spatial brain. Even if that's somewhat of a male thing, I don't care.

You don't have to choose which binary gender you would rather have been assigned at birth; after all, they aren't choosing which non-binary gender they would have preferred to be assigned, right? I think a table would be a really good way to show people their gender options; hopefully someday, someone who knows how to do that technical stuff will make one.

[Dawning]

11 hours ago, Starbogen said:

This is pretty much what I wanted to comment too.

 

I also didn't, and don't, "feel" like a gender. But over time I realized that neither do a lot of other people who identify within the binary  regardless of if they're cis or trans. And I also came to think of gender as that consistently "wanting" to be a gender or like a gender meant identifying eith it and therefore being it. I wanted to look male and be treated as male and I prefered seeing myself as male so, I'm male.

I totally agree! Gender is all in the brain, and sometimes it doesn't match the body. I would really love to know the % of people who don't have a particular feeling of gender, but never actually think it through and realize what that means. Heck, that was me for years! We might be way more common than we think.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

1 hour ago, Dawning said:

Did any part of the Autigender concept ring true to you?

Wow, yes.

Particularly "...we have a disability that inherently makes understanding gender part of our disability."

And "I don't personally identify as Autigender, but it is fair to say I am Autigender."

 

It's nice to have a reason why I struggle with gender, even if that doesn't make the struggle go away

[Dawning]

11 hours ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

I have Asperger's and I consider myself male, but only in the physical form. I understand that the very essence of you (the soul, God, etc.) really has no gender, hence I'm unattached to being male.

Unattached, that's a really good word for it! Some people seem to have a virtual stranglehold on their gender, as if the only thing that matters about them is their naughty bits and what they do with them. Many cultures have some way, often painful, for men to "prove their manhood"; if someone's a man, they're a man, what is there to prove? I think we have more freedom outside of the binary.

[EmotionalAndroid]

I am on the spectrum and I, too, am baffled by the concept of gender. I choose "agender", personally, because I don't feel I am gendered at all and that term seems to sum up that feeling. I truly feel that we as beings are far beyond our physical forms and therefore gender, which is a social structure that seems to stem from form, is beyond me. It is odd to try and define oneself by these artificial means and to try to put oneself in a box that society makes for you. Personally, I think we shouldn't get too bogged down in labels and just freely be ourselves, whatever that may entail.

 

14 hours ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

I have Asperger's and I consider myself male, but only in the physical form. I understand that the very essence of you (the soul, God, etc.) really has no gender, hence I'm unattached to being male.

My views are very similar to what you have said, Angel of Eternity! I am physically female, but I'm not too attached to this form and my true self (consciousness) is formless.

[Dawning]

I'm steadily more amazed at what great company I'm in! Did any of the Autigender definition ring true to you?

[Wonder-woman]

On 6/7/2018 at 5:55 PM, Dawning said:

Not only do I have no gender-related feelings whatsoever, I honestly have no idea what people mean when they say that they feel like a particular gender, any gender.

Interesting, I feel the same way, I haven't ever "felt" a particular gender either - didn't think that was an issue or even considered giving it a label because I couldn't care less, almost detached from identifying with it.

 

Biologically, I am a female and have nothing against the physical form so I've simply identified as female.

 

As for feeling, if I were to say masculine/feminine affinity along a spectrum, I'd probably lie smack bang in the middle. I don't act feminine and really don't understand those who are "girly girls" (for lack of better term). But also don't "feel" like a guy or want to change to be a guy. If I were to get a sex change, it'd make no difference to my life (aside from the physiological changes i.e. no more periods etc.). I'm not attached to it.

 

I try to keep things simple where I can, complicated one for me is romantic orientation.  Currently I know I'm a female ace, that may be aro? (never felt romantic attraction to anyone and haven't been able to feel anything beyond close friendship, so I can't even discern if I'm straight, lesbian, bi or whatever other term... but confusing thing is I do want to be in a romantic relationship, have a family etc. though don't know if that is possible)

[CuddleAlien]

2 hours ago, Dawning said:

I'm steadily more amazed at what great company I'm in! Did any of the Autigender definition ring true to you?

Oh yeah, I grew to love this comminity a lot in such a ashort time. ❤️

The definition rings true a lot for me. It puts very well into words what I feel... not completely though... But it's a very good explanation.

[Dawning]

43 minutes ago, AceD said:

Interesting, I feel the same way, I haven't ever "felt" a particular gender either - didn't think that was an issue or even considered giving it a label because I couldn't care less, almost detached from identifying with it.

 

Biologically, I am a female and have nothing against the physical form so I've simply identified as female.

 

As for feeling, if I were to say masculine/feminine affinity along a spectrum, I'd probably lie smack bang in the middle. I don't act feminine and really don't understand those who are "girly girls" (for lack of better term). But also don't "feel" like a guy or want to change to be a guy. If I were to get a sex change, it'd make no difference to my life (aside from the physiological changes i.e. no more periods etc.). I'm not attached to it.

 

I try to keep things simple where I can, complicated one for me is romantic orientation.  Currently I know I'm a female ace, that may be aro? (never felt romantic attraction to anyone and haven't been able to feel anything beyond close friendship, so I can't even discern if I'm straight, lesbian, bi or whatever other term... but confusing thing is I do want to be in a romantic relationship, have a family etc. though don't know if that is possible)

I was right where you are for YEARS! I had never even thought it through enough to wonder if other people felt like me, or if it had to do with my autism, or if there was a term for it. I have no idea why I suddenly had the urge to click a link and start looking things up a couple of days ago; I guess it was just the right time for me. 

 

Do you think you might be Gray-romantic, and just haven't found your first romantic interest yet? I've always liked the idea of being in a romantic relationship, too, but I go a long time between times when I'm interested in anyone, and I mean like a decade. There's no way to be positive if you will ever have a long-term romantic relationship, same as with anybody else. but if you want one and are open to the possibilities, I bet your chances are really good. You can have and raise children without a partner, too, so even if you never had romantic feelings for anyone, you could still have a family. We need a dating site for people who are non-binary or open to partnering with non-binary people!

[ElasticPlanet]

10 hours ago, Dawning said:

I don't have to act or present myself in any particular way for people to see and accept me as the female I appear to be. How have you chosen to function around society at large? Have you had any difficulties being accepted?

Being seen as the male person I appeared to be, only became a serious problem in recent years as I found out that...

• People were seeing me as wants-to-be-male, which I find shocking and hideous
• I had coping mechanisms in place which I'd taught myself to forget about so long ago that I couldn't see they were coping mechanisms

In the 2 years since I settled on my agender label, I've been trying to find ways to look more nonbinary. I feel happier about my appearance in ways that I'd never even known were possible. As far as people knowing what this all means, my social transition has been going a bit slowly, but I'm working on it.

 

8 hours ago, Dawning said:

You don't have to choose which binary gender you would rather have been assigned at birth; after all, they aren't choosing which non-binary gender they would have preferred to be assigned, right?

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. I was trying to say that I'm an agender person who was assigned male. Do I wish I were an agender person who was assigned female instead? I don't know because each of those two possibilities has huge advantages and huge disadvantages for me, and I don't know how to weigh up the pros and cons. Also, being read as female for the last 40+ years would have made me a slightly different person in ways I can't quite know without experiencing it. The only version of me that I actually know is this one right here.

 

10 hours ago, Dawning said:

Did any part of the Autigender concept ring true to you?

The lifelong difficulty of understanding gender as anyone else talked about it, to the point where I thought it was pretty much fictional and made up just to oppress people, and that the whole sex-and-gender thing should be abolished so that nobody ever has to be male or female, we can all just be people... The lack of intuitive grasp of it, the amount of analytical work I needed to do to find my place in nonbinary space, followed by permanent ongoing uncertainty about whether the answer I'd found was the right one. The only thing I feel 100% sure about right now is that agender has a nicer flag than nonbinary!

 

[ElasticPlanet]

25 minutes ago, Dawning said:

I had never even thought it through enough to wonder if other people felt like me, or if it had to do with my autism, or if there was a term for it.

In my case, I never even wondered if other people might feel differently from me. Without being conscious of what I was doing, I assumed I was typical. On the occasions when I noticed somebody saying they liked being a woman or a man, I just wrote them off as a freak case. I didn't spot the pattern because it was so antithetical to my view of the world.

[Dawning]

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where we wouldn't have to have coping mechanisms to get along in the mainstream?

 

I like the idea of trying to look more non-binary. That's so awesome that this has made you feel happier about your appearance! Have you seen this interesting documentary:

 

https://suiteddoc.com

 

I would love to get a custom suit that would make me look less girlish and more… Louche. 

 

What I tried to express, poorly, about not having to choose which gender you would rather have been assigned at birth was just that binary people don't have to ponder this sort of thing; there probably isn't a single one of them that ever wondered about where they would want to be on the non-binary spectrum if that was how they had been born.

 

I hear you about the amount of analytical work that we sometimes have to do in order to figure out what on earth "normal" people are on about, and what does it mean, and what do they expect from us, and what do we have to do or say in order to not have them look at us like we're crazy. I don't know more often than not if I have come up with the right thing, because I'm not socially perceptive enough to judge their reactions.

 

I try to have a sense of humor about all of this. There are so many times in my life where I have had to accept that the reason that other people were different from me was that I was the one who was unusual. Autistic, asexual, and non-binary; aliens could probably land on Earth that would be more similar to the average person than I am, lol.

 

[Wonder-woman]

33 minutes ago, Dawning said:

Do you think you might be Gray-romantic, and just haven't found your first romantic interest yet?

Hard to know if that's really me if I don't even know what is the "more" beyond a platonic relationship... 

 

Not very liberal with the labels, I find that sometimes more labels makes the simple more complicated or pigeonholes you a little bit too much. 

 

At this point in time, because I don't feel romantic attraction - I identify as aro, that may change as time progresses.

[ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø]

7 hours ago, AceD said:

I try to keep things simple where I can, complicated one for me is romantic orientation.  Currently I know I'm a female ace, that may be aro? (never felt romantic attraction to anyone and haven't been able to feel anything beyond close friendship, so I can't even discern if I'm straight, lesbian, bi or whatever other term... but confusing thing is I do want to be in a romantic relationship, have a family etc. though don't know if that is possible)

If I may offer up a solution here, I think what you have just described regarding your romantic orientation is 'cupioromantic.' Its basic definition is that of someone who is aromantic but still wants a romantic relationship.

[Wonder-woman]

4 hours ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

If I may offer up a solution here, I think what you have just described regarding your romantic orientation is 'cupioromantic.' Its basic definition is that of someone who is aromantic but still wants a romantic relationship.

You really are an Angel 👼Thank you! That makes sense, I'd fall into that though I'd still consider myself an aro

 

Mainly because desire doesn't define the feeling - if that makes sense. Kinda as though I'm saying at an extreme: I want to be royalty (but giving it a special word because the desire to be royalty is there, doesn't materially change the fact that I am ordinary)

[ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø]

1 hour ago, AceD said:

You really are an Angel 👼 Thank you! That makes sense, I'd fall into that though I'd still consider myself an aro

 

Mainly because desire doesn't define the feeling - if that makes sense. Kinda as though I'm saying at an extreme: I want to be royalty (but giving it a special word because the desire to be royalty is there, doesn't materially change the fact that I am ordinary)

Anytime! I'm just a friendly neighborhood bloke helping a comrade in need, but it's totally fine if you don't want to fall under that label. After all, it is up to you and you alone.

1 hour ago, AceD said:

You really are an Angel 👼

Thanks for the kind words and good vibrations. When I read this, it really hit me (words really are powerful!). I was in a very transcendent state of being when this idea for a username came to me. It sounded impressive, so I decided to use it.

[ElasticPlanet]

On 6/8/2018 at 1:38 PM, Dawning said:

Have you seen this interesting documentary: https://suiteddoc.com

 

I would love to get a custom suit that would make me look less girlish and more… Louche.

I've seen that trailer a little while back. Good stuff... but the thing is, moving away from female presentation isn't quite the same as moving away from male. There isn't a clearly defined mid point that anyone could use to look nonbinary regardless of their assigned gender. If you're assigned female you probably have to go much further into masc territory before people will notice these days. I'm going in the opposite direction. I've always been envious of some of the things women were 'allowed' to do, and in principle I wanted everyone to have access to all those things, but only recently have I tried enough of them for real to know how badly I wanted them for myself. Moving so far towards femme presentation is just another of the zillion things that has made me doubt my agender label again...

 

On 6/8/2018 at 1:38 PM, Dawning said:

I hear you about the amount of analytical work that we sometimes have to do in order to figure out what on earth "normal" people are on about, and what does it mean, and what do they expect from us, and what do we have to do or say in order to not have them look at us like we're crazy. I don't know more often than not if I have come up with the right thing, because I'm not socially perceptive enough to judge their reactions.

Same here. And having gone through so many steps of logical thought inside my own head with my newfound knowledge about these things, why do most people not even want to talk about it in the same way? How can they claim to know or care if they don't analyse? I only get to have conversations like this with other trans and nonbinary people.