summerqueen

A question on gray asexuality

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summerqueen

 

Hi, hope everyone is well.

 

When looking at the definition of gray ace I understand its someone who occasionally feels attraction or sexual desire. Does anyone know if the attraction/desire is supposed to be around actual people or does it include fantasies?

 

I dont think I am asexual based on my long history with lesbian porn and mainly sexual fantasies (I wrote a long post a few weeks back about my history) of which I have actually been involved in (I do not fantasize in third person) but at the same time as a 30 year old virgin woman who has never felt a sexual desire for anyone who exists in flesh and does not desire it I am puzzled as to what label is out there that fits me. Around actual people I like men romantically but have no strong urge to act on that attraction and around real women in flesh I feel no sexual or romantic attraction.  It seems reading through people stories in here most ace do not fantasize about themselves making out with someone. I also am not sure about the gray label because I do not experience sexual attraction toward anyone who actually exists in real life and I am 30 years old I am not confident this will ever change. Also, if I am using fantasies to define my sexual orientation, wouldn't  that make me a bisexual or a lesbian based on my pattern of porn and then fantasizing about women after watching it for a long time despite not actually feeling any attraction or desire to women who actually exist in flesh?

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argar

Hmm,

 

I've had a kind of sexual encounter with a male friend of mine.

 

It was a long time ago in college though.

 

Because of that experience, I realized a few things.

 

I am not sexually or romantically attracted to men.

 

But being sexual with a man doesn't bother me in the way it would if I was sexual with a woman.

 

I think because I am romantically attracted to women, having a sexual something with men feels safer.

 

I think maybe in some ways maybe your fantasizes about being with women is a safe place to be?

 

To be clear I am not seeking to have sex with either men or women, but I do fantasize about being in a romantic/pseudo sexual relationship with a woman.

 

In IRL I am not motivated to have the relationships I can safely have in a fantasy.

 

My sexual encounter with my friend only came about because my libido was out of control for odd circumstances.

 

So, even though I do have a libido, it isn't directed towards anyone, and is more of a biological thing to me.

 

I hope this helps and makes a little sense.

 

 

 

 

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summerqueen

 

It makes perfect sense, thanks! So do you identify as graysexual? If so did you come to that label  based on your the fantasies ( and if you are in them) any attraction you feel in them or do you identify as graysexual based on the attraction you feel in real life around women? I am just confused because if graysexual is about attractions one feels in fantasies then I am not sure how that same logic wouldnt be applied to labeling myself bisexual and yet theres a whole lot of sexuality experts who say fantasies that one has no desire to make real with an actual person is not on its own enough to make a basis for a label so if I were to take this understanding i am not graysexual because I do not feel sexual attraction to actual people but then I am not asexual because I do have fantasies that I am involved in. So far I have gathered that my romantic orientation if I base it on actual people is hetroromantic but even that is not much help because its mainly a way to identify that I do recognize a preference for men than women when around real people but I have a very low and almost non existent desire to act on that preference hence why I am a virgin who has never kissed or dated anyone. The sexual identity is bizaare. Maybe I have my own sexual orientation that no one has a label for because really and truly I do not fit anywhere and I have read every label out there. Even Autochorissexual doesn't fit as its fantasies in the third person.

 

Also sorry folks, just saw a thread below my post that is meant for all questions on gray ace to be posted there, didnt see it when I created this thread.

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argar

For me it is biology I think.

 

It makes it easier for me to understand it in those terms.

 

I get aroused every once in a while, but it is never someone who makes me feel aroused.

 

I don't orgasm, but I do totally enjoy my rich fantasy life when I masturbate.

 

I know how I feel, but I can't honestly say I haven't been influenced by media, movies, and music that perpetuate the idea that we are a supposed to be with someone.

 

Of course said media also perpetuate the idea that sex/love/romance are all the same thing.

 

For me they are not.

 

I've had "sex" with a man and it didn't involve love or romance.

 

I feel in love, but I only ever had a fleeting feeling of wanting to touch them.

 

And I had romantic feeling for a lesbian, but now that I am older I realize those feeling came because I felt safe with her.

 

I never really had to worry that we were ever going to to be sexual.

 

In between all that grey just makes sense to me.

 

I have also never kissed or dated anyone.

 

 

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summerqueen

thanks @argar for sharing your story and I can definitely see why gray ace would work for you. I get the biology bit, I have masturbated and had orgasms to fantasies I have been involved in but the biology bit doesn't transfer for me to any human contact like the idea of making my fantasies come true is not something I have ever wondered about or wanted to explore with a real person. I am not repulsed just not interested. My fantasies serve a biology need I guess and once that's met I'm all good.

 

I have come to the conclusion that asexuality is actually not for me as I don't fit any asexual category. In my case I don't believe my fantasies are real and so I have never felt a sexual attraction to another human being so graysexual doesn't fit but I am also not asexual because I do involve myself in my fantasies and so I feel my actual label has not actually been created because its something like "A person who feels no sexual attraction to any human being that exists but one who has had sexual fantasies of both men and women that they are involved in". Having looked at all the labels, there isn't one out there that describe my sexual orientation. Its actually very surprising that I haven't come across others in similar circumstances but its all good.

 

Great discussing this with you and all the best.

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roland.o
On 6/6/2018 at 9:31 PM, summerqueen said:

Does anyone know if the attraction/desire is supposed to be around actual people or does it include fantasies?

That's a bit of a gray area within the gray area :cake: If you feel attracted to real-life people, you know for sure that you're not fully ace. If you only fantasize about it, it's up to you whether you consider that as sexual attraction/desire, or as merely fantasies. If somebody thinks "I wish I could find someone I would feel attracted to, like I do in my fantasies" - how far away is this from someone thinking "I wish I could be like 'normal' people who feel sexual attraction"? I've lived most of my life in this area, and decided to identify as gray because I know a real-life person with whom I just might...

 

It's important to keep in mind that feelings in real life are often quite different from fantasies about something one has never experienced. Liking the "idea of sex", as transported in some media and romances, does not mean one would actually like the real-life sweating and grunting and pounding :D

 

If you feel more comfortable with the gray label than with ace, by all means use it!

 

On 6/6/2018 at 11:05 PM, summerqueen said:

just saw a thread below my post that is meant for all questions on gray ace to be posted there

Don't worry, that's not a thread where all questions on gray should be posted. It exists for those who have a question and are too shy to start a new thread about it.

 

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summerqueen

Thanks @roland.o for your insight too!

 

For me I know that my fantasies do not = real life attraction  but the thing is my questions aren't really about me but about how the gray label came about and what it means specifically when it says terms like experiencing occasional attraction and desire for people? I am not sure who created the label and what exact specific type of intention they had when creating that term- was it to describe attraction one feels around real people or attraction felt only in fantasy that one has no attraction/desire when around actual people? 

 

I just don't really like labeling myself something I do not know the ins and outs of particularly regarding its definition, I also have a tendency to really analyse things to help me grasp it better . If the gray label is meant to describe attraction felt around real people then no I am not gray as I have never experienced sexual desire or attraction to any human being and I am also not asexual by virtue of having had fantasies that I was involved in. I can choose to label myself these terms but for me its really important that If I label myself that the label fits and doesn't leave room for ambiguity.

 

I did come across asexual with libido and that could work but I guess one thing that still does stand out and I haven't really read as a typical thing for asexuals is placing myself in my sexual  and a few romantic fantasies for a while and so that isnt really an asexual thing to do. I do think a label out there for me just hasn't been created and so maybe when defining my sexual (not romantic) orientation I could just go with " I am not asexual, heterosexual, bisexual or a lesbian but someone who has a history of fantasizing about doing things that I have no real world desire or attraction to do when around actual people" as the best way of explaining myself in terms of my sexual orientation, if to no other person than atleast to myself to help me develop a better understanding of my orientation.

 

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roland.o
On 6/9/2018 at 5:33 PM, summerqueen said:

about how the gray label came about and what it means specifically when it says terms like experiencing occasional attraction and desire for people?

When sexual people feel sexual attraction on a regular basis (whatever that means), and asexual people don't feel it ever, there must be a gray area for people who don't experience it often enough to connect with sexual people, but still occasionally, so they're not asexual by the common definition around here. If you look at the AVEN triangle, it has a white edge for sexuals, and a black point for asexuals. Hence the gray area. Where white turns to gray, and where gray turns to black, is up for discussion.

 

On 6/9/2018 at 5:33 PM, summerqueen said:

I haven't really read as a typical thing for asexuals is placing myself in my sexual  and a few romantic fantasies for a while and so that isnt really an asexual thing to do.

I have never read about a requirement that asexual people may not star in their own fantasies. Yes, it seems to be quite common to have 3rd-party fantasies only. But it's not a requirement. As for romantic fantasies, some asexuals are romantic, while others are aromantic as well as asexual. Ace of Hearts versus Ace of Spades. All equally valid.

 

The question is: do you identify with asexuality? Do you expect to not experience sexual attraction or desire towards a real-life person, ever? And are you comfortable with that? If the answers to those questions are Yes, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't identify as asexual.

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Bambersuta
On 6/6/2018 at 1:31 PM, summerqueen said:

When looking at the definition of gray ace I understand its someone who occasionally feels attraction or sexual desire. Does anyone know if the attraction/desire is supposed to be around actual people or does it include fantasies?

For me, my asexuality is based on how I feel, or I suppose the lack of towards other people. I can sort of get aroused with someone I care about, but the actual act of sex has no appeal to me. But I do occasionally masturbate (usually to porn because I don’t personally have any fantasies of my own). And from my understanding, there are a lot of aces out there that do that. So I don’t think your own personal fantasies have to factor in, if you still don’t feel a connection to real people. Although I think that gray asexual could define you well if you so chose to define yourself that way. Your identity is about you and how you define yourself! That’s the great part about it, no one can tell you who you are. But we can help you get there!

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bluefon
On 6/8/2018 at 11:48 AM, roland.o said:

 

It's important to keep in mind that feelings in real life are often quite different from fantasies about something one has never experienced. Liking the "idea of sex", as transported in some media and romances, does not mean one would actually like the real-life sweating and grunting and pounding :D

 

 

ROFL! This! (Grunting and pounding, omg 😂)

 

In reaction to what’s been said in the general thread:

 

I agree I don’t think fantasies, or how you do or don’t identify yourself in said fantasies, has anything to do with identifying as asexual. There are several asexual identifying people who have fasntasies from what I can tell. The Autochorissexual label, in my opinion, is just a specification or a modifier rather than an entire replacement for the Asexual identity (just my opinion).

 

I personally identify as Gray. That’s  because  I do expirience what I consider “sexual attraction” on the rare occasion. I also have the occasional sex fantasies, or arousal at the thought of specific sexual acts. But I do NOT desire to act on them. 

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summerqueen

 

First of all thank you all for the kindness of your replies, I do not take it for granted at all and wasn't expecting any replies to be honest. I have a tendency to investigate things and analyse and analyse until I have 100% clarity, it can be really annoying for others to deal with my inquisitive drive for information, a lot of it was until very recently driven by anxiety but I have calmed down a lot since having realized that anxiety only creates confusion and once it is minimized one is able to  seek information with clarity and confidence, things anxiety robs you of.  I say this to say please don't feel obligated to respond to my follow up notes below as you all have been mega helpful. 

👍

 

18 hours ago, roland.o said:

 

 

I have never read about a requirement that asexual people may not star in their own fantasies. Yes, it seems to be quite common to have 3rd-party fantasies only. But it's not a requirement. As for romantic fantasies, some asexuals are romantic, while others are aromantic as well as asexual. Ace of Hearts versus Ace of Spades. All equally valid.

 

The question is: do you identify with asexuality? Do you expect to not experience sexual attraction or desire towards a real-life person, ever? And are you comfortable with that? If the answers to those questions are Yes, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't identify as asexual.

 

I also haven't come across a requirement either but based on the research I have read on asexuals and a lot of other forum users post its seems one thing asexuals have in common is not staring in their fantasies so naturally I think as an outsider looking in I feel different and different often leads to "well, I am not sure if self identifying with a label where I feel different from a lot of others who also use the same label is wise". I am not sure if that is a logical mindset to have but there really isn't a lot of discussions on here about those who have featured in their own fantasies for a while and so naturally I think a mind would question if they are also under the same label.

 

I am not sure about identifying as asexual because I am having trouble with identifying with any of the labels under the asexuality spectrum but yes I have never experienced nor do expect to experience sexual attraction. 

 

18 hours ago, Bambersuta said:

For me, my asexuality is based on how I feel, or I suppose the lack of towards other people. I can sort of get aroused with someone I care about, but the actual act of sex has no appeal to me. But I do occasionally masturbate (usually to porn because I don’t personally have any fantasies of my own). And from my understanding, there are a lot of aces out there that do that. So I don’t think your own personal fantasies have to factor in, if you still don’t feel a connection to real people. Although I think that gray asexual could define you well if you so chose to define yourself that way. Your identity is about you and how you define yourself! That’s the great part about it, no one can tell you who you are. But we can help you get there!

 

In regards to gray ace label though if I discount my fantasies then there is no sexual attraction or desire that I have ever felt towards an actual human being who exist so how could I identify as gray? This is more an inquisitive question because if gray ace is about very rare feelings around actual people then I couldnt be gray but if it means fantasies one has and that is defined as "sexual attraction" then yea I would be cool calling myself gray. My issue is more what definition of gray ace is the one i go by so its more a technical question than a "someone help me figure out what my orientation is".

 

I think because I do not fit the typical archetype of a asexual on one end of the spectrum where one has no fantasies nor any real life feelings but also because I have never felt a sexual attraction or even romantic attraction to any human being in my 30 years I am also not someone who can say I have rare attraction to others (if we take others to mean people who actually exist in real life and not thoughts mostly about imaginary people and a few celebrities) so I am somewhere but its not a clearly labelled term. If gray ace had included sexual and romantic  fantasies that one is involved in but has no real life desire or attraction for then I would be more than happy to go with that label because it would fit perfectly to describe my reality  but my issue here is that I am not sure the gray ace label actually means to include fantasies one has no real life desire or attraction to and so I am apprehensive naturally to identify with the label. I also would wonder if I base my fantasies and use to that define my sexual orientation (if I go by gray ace and say I experience sexual attraction/desire based on my fantasies alone) how would that be any different than saying I am a bisexual or even a lesbian based on my fantasies alone? So I am a cautious about using fantasies that I have no real desire or attraction for when around actual people to define my sexual orientation because then it gets tricky because it opens up a whole new debate of if attraction  or desire only felt in fantasy that does not crossover to actual people really is attraction or desire?

 

7 hours ago, bluefon said:

 

 

I personally identify as Gray. That’s  because  I do expirience what I consider “sexual attraction” on the rare occasion. I also have the occasional sex fantasies, or arousal at the thought of specific sexual acts. But I do NOT desire to act on them. 

 

Cool, is the rare "sexual attraction" you feel or have felt around actual people or was it in your occasional fantasies only? Just trying to gain insight here as to how you and others gray ace's are understanding the definition of the gray ace label. 

 

 

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bluefon
8 hours ago, summerqueen said:

 

Cool, is the rare "sexual attraction" you feel or have felt around actual people or was it in your occasional fantasies only? Just trying to gain insight here as to how you and others gray ace's are understanding the definition of the gray ace label. 

 

 

I do feel what I am calling “sexual attraction” around real people. For me, it’s kind of a confusing feeling of arousal when I see men. Or a type of man? I don’t know. It’s so infrequent, and contradictory to what I conciously want that it feels really weird. It’s like all the sudden I see a random person and “Wow, they are arousingly attractive”. There’s no logic or further emotion attached to it for me, if that makes sense. My fantasies and reactions to pornographic material is kinda the same way. Like there is a physical reaction, but there is a mental disconnect from what’s happening. How that plays into sexual identity, I’m not really sure. But, I personally feel most comfortable with the Gray-Ace label, because I don’t think that I can 100% identify with NEVER experiencing “sexual attraction”.

 

I think the problem a lot of us here in the asexual community and on AVEN have been having, is that sexual attraction, is almost too abstract of a concept. For example, if you put into consideration the science of arousal non-concordance (

) I should actually identify as fully asexual. But then again, where DO we draw the line on sexual attraction? Do we draw it at biological response? Or desire?

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PhoenixInFlames

A few months late, but oh well ;)

Warning: this could be TMI for some people :)

 

I can relate to your struggle with fantasies and real life. Maybe not exactly in the same way, but it has been confusing me as well. 

I feel like I could probably be asexual in real life, because I can't recall being sexually attracted to a specific person (But then again, I'm not even sure what that would feel like XD). I know for sure I've been romantically, sensually and aesthetically attracted to guys (I'm a heteroromantic cis female), but the ''I'd like to bang them'' never popped into my head, unless I wanted to think about it (for curiosity's sake, mostly) and then it felt weird. In my fantasies, however, I'm actually quite sexual, but it's always (or at least 99% of the time) third person and it's more focused on the act than the people. But it's always me with the same person. There could be different scenario's, different ''relationships'' between us (ranging from boyfriends to strangers) but it's always the same guy. (Some actor I just think is hot (or used to be, because it's from an older movie). And I'm always kinda blurry? I don't actually picture myself. I know it's me, I just don't see me. I feel like I'm imagining stuff with him, just to have someone to imagine it with. So even though I think he's hot, it's not actually about him.. I think. Is this logical? 

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Cheshire-Cat

I identify as gray/demi. I don't believe I've ever felt real sexual attraction, but believe that if I found the right person I may be able to (Or maybe that's more of a hope!) I can appreciate both men and women though. I have had sex in the past, and enjoyed it, and I have the occasional sexual desires, but it's pretty rare. 

For me Gray is more people who fit somewhere between full on asexual and sexual people. We don't fit fully in either group but have some traits from both.

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PhoenixInFlames
4 hours ago, Ambo-blossom said:

I identify as gray/demi. I don't believe I've ever felt real sexual attraction, but believe that if I found the right person I may be able to (Or maybe that's more of a hope!)

I actually really like this, because I feel like this could be me as well. I have considered gray/grey since I don't know if I could be demi (I've never been in a serious relationship)

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Kayze

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Gray-A/Grey-A

 

Gray-Asexuality is generally defined as:

  • do not normally experience sexual attraction, but do experience it sometimes
  • experience sexual attraction, but a low sex drive
  • experience sexual attraction and drive, but not strongly enough to want to act on them
  • people who can enjoy and desire sex, but only under very limited and specific circumstances

I'd say limited and specific circumstances could definitely pass even if towards another person.

 

For me, I only experience sexual attraction with a fetish that involves another person's reactions. I otherwise feel no attraction towards actual sex nor porn nor have any "thirst" for others. Since it's a very limited attraction that still doesn't involve actual sex and isn't the expected norm of any sexual orientation, I've found gray-asexual, Ace, or asexual-ish as good labels cause they communicate the right expectation.

 

Generally, I feel gray-asexual applies to anyone that doesn't normally experience sexual attraction, in limited circumstances only, and otherwise finds their limited sexual attraction feels benefits from the impression of the asexuality label.

 

 

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Fluffy Femme Guy
On 6/6/2018 at 2:31 PM, summerqueen said:

When looking at the definition of gray ace I understand its someone who occasionally feels attraction or sexual desire. Does anyone know if the attraction/desire is supposed to be around actual people or does it include fantasies?

I've always thought of it allowing for both meanings. The important thing being that you are significantly less, or not at all interested in sexual encounters IRL.

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