Spoopy_Hazel

“Asexuals Shouldn't Be Excluded From Queer Spaces, Especially Pride”

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Spoopy_Hazel

I saw this article shared on twitter, and it made me happy. I thought I’d share it here.

 

https://www.pride.com/pride/2018/6/01/asexuals-shouldnt-be-excluded-queer-spaces-especially-pride?amp&__twitter_impression=true

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divided_sky

Why not?

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Spoopy_Hazel
3 minutes ago, divided_sky said:

Why not?

Why not what?

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divided_sky

"Why not?" in response to the title of this thread. What else do you think I'm responding to?

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divided_sky

White people also shouldn't be excluded from black empowerment groups

 

I feel I should be accepted there

 

 

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divided_sky

As a man who is decidedly not a female, I should be welcomed and accepted into female empowerment groups as well

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Spoopy_Hazel
15 minutes ago, divided_sky said:

"Why not?" in response to the title of this thread. What else do you think I'm responding to?

I didn’t know if it was sarcastic or not. Sorry, I’m really bad at reading social situations. 

And in response to your “why not?”, because a lot of asexual people identify as queer. They are not straight... and they do face oppression in some situations... read the article for some examples.

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Spoopy_Hazel

Your two comments are irrelevant if asexuals are queer. And a lot of asexuals identify as queer. You may choose not to, but if someone does, they should not be excluded... I think it’s generally pretty obvious that asexuals are not straight. Asexuals are not “decidedly not” queer.

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divided_sky
Just now, Hazel_Elise said:

Your two comments are irrelevant if asexuals are queer. And a lot of asexuals identify as queer. You may choose not to, but if someone does, they should not be excluded... I think it’s generally pretty obvious that asexuals are not straight.

In one post you make it seem like it is a choice to identify as queer, but then it is not a choice to identify as straight or not straight. "asexuals are not straight"

 

So is it a choice or is it not?

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Spoopy_Hazel
Just now, divided_sky said:

In one post you make it seem like it is a choice to identify as queer, but then it is not a choice to identify as straight or not straight. "asexuals are not straight"

 

So is it a choice or is it not?

I think that asexuals are not straight, but if an asexual chose to call themself straight, I would not argue with them. I’m not in charge of anyone else’s identity. 

And I didn’t intend this post to start an argument. As I said in the OP, this article made me happy, and it applies to asexuals. Thus, it may be interesting to other asexuals. That’s why I shared it.

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Reindeer Dani

Wow, this topic went somewhere interesting... 

 

I just wanted to say thanks for sharing that article. 😄 Very interesting. Not the first time that I've heard about asexual people being excluded from queer spaces. It never made any sense to me. 😕

 

I've heard Dan Savage comments on the asexual community before. Such a shame...

 

I'm on the asexual spectrum myself. I'm also non-binary. Even though I'm a fairly quiet, private individual, I try to spread knowledge to others whenever possible. If someone is open to learning about asexuality, I try to answers their questions the best that I can. :)  Knowledge is power! 💪

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Claire1983

Thanks for sharing!  I agree.  Until I knew that asexuality existed I assumed I was straight, and this is different from that.  So it doesn't make sense to me that asexuals would be excluded. I think that the fact that so many asexuals don't realize their orientation even exists and suffer emotional distress from wondering what's wrong with them, assuming it's mental, physical, whatever and feeling compelled to fix it is a form of oppression.  It might be mild compared to others in the Queer rainbow, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  It's not a competition.  We should all be helping each other because we're all struggling to challenge the social norm and be accepted.

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InquisitivePhilosopher

:) That was a good article. Thanks for sharing.

 

I just wanted to point out that Dan Savage doesn't seem to hold those beliefs, anymore. In his blog, where he answers others' questions about sexuality, he's mentioned asexuality as being valid and possibly pertaining to them when someone writes in mentioning that they don't, and haven't, felt sexual attraction ever since they were young. He's been helping spread the word to others about asexuality being a valid sexual orientation.

 

Here's one example:

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/dan-savage-love-asexuality-autism-lesbianism/Content?oid=25555952

 

 

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gner0
19 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

Dan Savage doesn't seem to hold those beliefs, anymore. In his blog, where he answers others' questions about sexuality, he's mentioned asexuality as being valid and possibly pertaining to them when someone writes in mentioning that they don't, and haven't, felt sexual attraction ever since they were young. He's been helping spread the word to others about asexuality being a valid sexual orientation.

I've read similar things from him and although I think he is very blunt and a bit edgy, he acknowledges Asexuality as a whole. I think it's just something he doesn't understand and is scared to comment too deeply on so he uses condescending language and sarcasm. 

 

Thanks for sharing this! I remember watching (A)sexuality and crying because I was so young, had never met another ace in my life, and was so sad to see that someone would not accept me. But I can tell you right now that the majority of people who are actually INVOLVED with the community would never turn you away if you showed up to march or volunteer or whatever in person. The online community is a lot of bark with no bite. If you showed up to an event, chances of someone actually "gatekeeping" and stopping you at the door is little to none. Show up and share your feelings and people will understand the struggles. The LGBTQ+ community has increased massively in the last several years and I can see how some people might be overwhelmed by all the people joining. Maybe they feel less special which confuses them with how unique they feel surrounded by their hetero friends. But the thing is, the community growing is supposed to be a positive thing. There are millions of people all feeling emotional pain and struggles that understand each other. And instead of hiding in the "closet" we are out marching and speaking and letting everyone know who we are and that we exist. Aces are no exception and need the visibility. Don't let these online people get you down! WE ROCK! :cake:

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Spoopy_Hazel

Thanks for all the responses! I have to admit, I was feeling a little awkward about sharing the article after the first person I conversed with... I really don’t understand how asexuals are not queer though. We are evidently not straight (heterosexual). And we do face discrimination, while in some situations it may not be as serious, some people are threatened with things like corrective rape, which is serious. Personally, I went through so much inner turmoil over my lack of sexuality that I had a relatively severe panic disorder from the ages of 11 to 13. As a panromantic asexual, I really just want the second half of my orientation to be accepted by the queer community, because I am NOT straight, and I do face issues because of it. I want to celebrate pride without dealing with ace erasure. So, this article made me feel more confident in my belonging in the queer community.

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Palovana
1 hour ago, Hazel_Elise said:

I really don’t understand how asexuals are not queer though.

Same. I don't care if an asexual doesn't want to identify with the term "queer", just like there are some gay or bisexual people who don't identify with that term, but if it's not straight and cisgender, it's rainbow.

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Here&Queer
3 hours ago, Hazel_Elise said:

Thanks for all the responses! I have to admit, I was feeling a little awkward about sharing the article after the first person I conversed with... I really don’t understand how asexuals are not queer though. We are evidently not straight (heterosexual). And we do face discrimination, while in some situations it may not be as serious, some people are threatened with things like corrective rape, which is serious. Personally, I went through so much inner turmoil over my lack of sexuality that I had a relatively severe panic disorder from the ages of 11 to 13. As a panromantic asexual, I really just want the second half of my orientation to be accepted by the queer community, because I am NOT straight, and I do face issues because of it. I want to celebrate pride without dealing with ace erasure. So, this article made me feel more confident in my belonging in the queer community.

I'm sorry you felt a bit uncomfortable after sharing this. I, for one, really appreciated the article. As you said, I certainly think aces are queer, as are aromantics (as well as those in the aro/ace spectrum). I've definitely dealt with some internalized acephobia when coming to accept myself and my orientation, which is proof enough that we face discrimination in society. This is especially true given that I've grown up in a fairly accepting household, yet I've still learned from the rest of society that asexuality isn't "normal". I actually take a lot of comfort from the LGBTQ+ community, and I am extremely proud to be a part of it. It makes me sad when people say we shouldn't be allowed in queer spaces. Like you said, I also want to be able to celebrate Pride without dealing with erasure and acephobia.

 

Anyways, that was my roundabout way of saying thank you for sharing this article! Especially during Pride month, where the LGBTQ+ community is so active and loud, it's really great to read aromantic and asexual affirming articles. 😊

 

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Spoopy_Hazel

@Palovana Exactly my thinking. 

@Here&Queer 😀😀❤️🧡💛💚💙💜

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Ficto.
9 hours ago, Hazel_Elise said:

Thanks for all the responses! I have to admit, I was feeling a little awkward about sharing the article after the first person I conversed with... I really don’t understand how asexuals are not queer though. We are evidently not straight (heterosexual). And we do face discrimination, while in some situations it may not be as serious, some people are threatened with things like corrective rape, which is serious. Personally, I went through so much inner turmoil over my lack of sexuality that I had a relatively severe panic disorder from the ages of 11 to 13. As a panromantic asexual, I really just want the second half of my orientation to be accepted by the queer community, because I am NOT straight, and I do face issues because of it. I want to celebrate pride without dealing with ace erasure. So, this article made me feel more confident in my belonging in the queer community.

Many asexuals do not identify as queer, and most of hetero aces I have met DO see themselves as 'straight' (romantically anyway) they just don't use the word 'straight' without also clarifying they are ace because otherwise it can lead your average sexual person to (understandably) assume you mean straight and into straight sex. I totally understand why a trans or gay ace would want to (and should) be accepted in LGBT, but at the same time I completely understand if people in the LGBT don't want straight aces to be included in their space. Straight aces have all the same rights and privileges that anyone else has, but there are many places where gay people still can't get married and where trans people are looked down upon and treated like dirt etc - Pride is a place for them to find acceptance and support. And when you look at how many aces claim to love and enjoy sex, well.. if you take them into account you literally have a bunch of perfectly normal straight people crashing a pride event designed for people who as a whole have been persecuted for centuries for their sexuality and/or gender. Not cool!

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Radio

Gonna slip my two cents in here. Asexuals should totally be included in queer spaces. It's the same with bisexuals, panromantics, etc. Heteroromantic Aces are no less valid as an Asexual than a Bisexual who's dating someone of the opposite gender. They're still not societal norms. They can still face some sort of persecution. An asexual can fear being coerced into intimacy because of the ideal of marriage consummation. An asexual can be belittled by the very LGBTQIA+ community they are apart of by being told 'You're just celibate you don't belong here'. An asexual can be threatened with corrective rape regardless of who their romantic inclinations fall towards if they have romantic inclinations at all. An asexual can be made to feel like they have no place anywhere because no one really can truly relate to their struggles a lot of the time aside from a fellow ace-spectrum member. An asexual can be treated like a child by friends, family, and even their partner and have those very same people either delegitimize or slander their asexuality. 

 

The Asexual spectrum belongs in queer spaces and I'm sorry, no one can tell me otherwise. Most members may not have needed to claw our way out of hell to show our stripes, but if you tell me that asexuals aren't having to battle social norms to be acknowledged I'd laugh in your face. This wouldn't be a conversation otherwise.

 

This came off more aggressive than intended but this is something I'm passionate about. I apologize for the lack of my usual humour.

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Reindeer Dani
10 hours ago, Hazel_Elise said:

Thanks for all the responses! I have to admit, I was feeling a little awkward about sharing the article after the first person I conversed with... I really don’t understand how asexuals are not queer though. We are evidently not straight (heterosexual). And we do face discrimination, while in some situations it may not be as serious, some people are threatened with things like corrective rape, which is serious. Personally, I went through so much inner turmoil over my lack of sexuality that I had a relatively severe panic disorder from the ages of 11 to 13. As a panromantic asexual, I really just want the second half of my orientation to be accepted by the queer community, because I am NOT straight, and I do face issues because of it. I want to celebrate pride without dealing with ace erasure. So, this article made me feel more confident in my belonging in the queer community.

I've used the word queer to describe myself at times. It's an umbrella term for sexual and gender minorities who are not heterosexual or cisgender, so it fits me. 😁 I realize that it was previously used mainly for gay people, but now it's used for others that are members of the LGBT+ community. 

 

I know what it's like for people to not understand. When I was younger, I used to get that whole "late bloomer" thing. Some assumed that I didn't date because I was shy and introverted. When I became a Christian for a time as a teen, there was that excuse too. I also went through a tremendous amount of inner turmoil. It felt like other people were invalidating my experiences, and that frustrated me a lot. 😠

 

Now, I try to educate people whenever I can. The more people who know about us, the better things will be for all of us. 😊

 

 

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Claire1983
1 hour ago, Radio said:

The Asexual spectrum belongs in queer spaces and I'm sorry, no one can tell me otherwise. Most members may not have needed to claw our way out of hell to show our stripes, but if you tell me that asexuals aren't having to battle social norms to be acknowledged I'd laugh in your face. This wouldn't be a conversation otherwise.

Yes.  We may not have had to claw our way out of hell, but that damn invisibility cloak is a bitch to get off!

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Spoopy_Hazel
Posted (edited)

@FictoVore. I see your opinion, and I respectfully disagree with you on saying that heteroromantic aces do not face issues as a minority sexuality. 

If heteroromantic aces want to identify as straight, they can go right ahead. I’m not in charge of their identity. However, there were several good points made in the comments above of ways that heteroromantic aces can suffer because of their asexuality. Before I even knew that I wasn’t heteroromantic, I had a panic disorder that stemmed from the fear of marital rape because I knew I was asexual. My parents won’t accept me as a heteroromantic ace (I’m not even going to try to tell them I’m panromantic).

 

Edit: I would like to add that I appreciate how you always seem to present your views respectfully and logically. Even if I often disagree with you, I appreciate that.

Edited by Hazel_Elise
Necessary addition
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Spoopy_Hazel

@Radio @Dani-Chan @Claire1983 *fully agrees with your posts*

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Claire1983

I also find it very problematic that so many of the arguments against asexuals belonging in LGBT+ spaces have to do with the degree to which we're oppressed and the implication that wanting to belong is equivalent to saying our struggles are equal.  They're not, but I think we still have a place.  I teach and in my class everyone is there for one reason, to learn.  Some students students have no problem with the material and need little to no help.  Others have various challenges that make it more difficult for them to succeed and they require more attention and assistance.  But everyone in my class is there to learn.   I certainly think the students who do struggle more deserve respect for their hard work and perseverance, but I would never tell a student they don't belong in my class because they don't struggle enough.  We all have the same goal and we can all help each other reach it.  To me it's the same situation.  

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Sally

LGBT+ spaces are just that: their spaces.  If they choose to invite us in, fine.  Otherwise, crashing someone else's spaces isn't the way to get the good kind of visibility.  

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Claire1983

But we are in the + so why wouldn't we belong?

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Thea2
1 hour ago, Claire1983 said:

But we are in the + so why wouldn't we belong?

I think Ficto said it all:

 

14 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

Many asexuals do not identify as queer, and most of hetero aces I have met DO see themselves as 'straight' (romantically anyway) ...

 

And when you look at how many aces claim to love and enjoy sex, well.. if you take them into account you literally have a bunch of perfectly normal straight people crashing a pride event designed for people who as a whole have been persecuted for centuries for their sexuality and/or gender. Not cool!

That’s what I think too. 😊

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Spoopy_Hazel

Honestly, I think I have made my position on the matter clear, so I don’t feel the need to argue the matter any further, personally. If I was in the mood for a debate on whether aces were queer, I would’ve posted a topic in the Hot Box. This was just an attempt to share a relevant article. 

I’m not trying to condemn other people for having this conversation; I am just explaining why I will no longer be debating this issue here. 

🙂 🍰

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Spoopy_Hazel

Here is a topic in Questions about Asexuality that is debating the same thing: 

And here is one in Hot Box:

 

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