Doing psychedelics with my grandma

[Peachyy]

 

As with anything I post, I'm quite aware that no one really gives a fuck to respond. I've tried before to talk about this but no one really cared. I'm going to try again because I wish to have a serious conversation with people about this. 😙

 

Even with reluctant people, I never seem to get a straight answer about why they don't want to do any dosage of a psychedelic. When given, the description of the experience they don't want to have does not match any experience I have known, or what others will tell you if you were to ask for their account. A mixture of assuming that it means losing ones ability to function or remain in "control". Meanwhile, almost anyone I talk to who has experienced an LSD or psilocybin induced trip describes a feeling of breaking through; scientists describe it as a way to break down the narratives we build for ourselves and to rehearse our own death, a recent benefit to some cancer patients who have the opportunity to take magic mushrooms once being diagnosed as terminal . The very obvious becomes obvious again, love a paramount value, and nature less separate than it often feels.

 

In light of that, lots of grandparents have been dying lately.  My boyfriend recently attended a funeral for his grandmother and came back with stories of how horribly the entire family took her death, and how even worse they had taken the death of his grandfather a month prior---a choice that the grandfather made when he didn't go back in for a surgery on his heart (partly discouraged by his doctor, but also partly his own). Some family members even reacted so negatively, that they removed contact with his grandmother for not forcing the grandfather to take the surgery, and she subsequently died without being in contact with some of her children. At the funeral, her children were desperately distraught and at odds with each other; people drank to the point of sick, and now there's an argument about to sell or not sell their childhood home. Something about it seems very, very clear... hardly any of them had come to terms with the idea of losing their parents even though both had nearly made it to their 90's. After this happened, I found out that my first cousin's grandmother had also died. On facebook it was a whirlwind of prayer; my cousin wrote, "she's in heaven with her Jesus", and again, I felt this deep unsettledness. It's not new to say, but religion at it's base is about the denial of a true death, by definition, and a way for grieving people to say, "he/she is not really gone", when they quite probably are.  When I see people drape death with unrelenting prayer and religiosity, I see a sickness.

 

I have one grandparent left. She's living with my parents right now about 20 minutes away and I've never really gotten to spend a lot of time with her. I regret that, but it was in part because for a while I felt that what I had to say would not be accepted. I've "come out" to my parents about my drug use and even tried suggesting my mother join me--she always says no and my father is indifferent. My grandmother is getting older and I've always known her to have an appreciation for free thought, art, music, history, and controversy. She has a very sharp mind and a strong memory. Today I was cleaning the pasture and I just kind of thought, "I have to do psychedelics with her before she dies". In recent time, I can't seem to find a reason not to suggest these drugs to anyone I talk to because the benefits are so overwhelmingly powerful, especially when it comes to thinking about the death of our loved ones and of ourselves. Some people can't risk shaking the anchor of their own sanity like that, but for those who can, the experiences can be lifechanging. I want to do whatever I can to offer my grandmother the best possible experience of life in the time she has, as I have been using it to increase my own life even though death for me doesn't feel as close, I can't shake the idea of introducing her to that feeling.  

 

[Epitaph]

I've met the folks who went on psychadelics. Some of them, as you say, mention memories and life changing experiences. Some of them completely fell apart mentally(likely due to drug combos rather than just one) Here's my honest opinion on it. Personally, I don't give a fuck what people do to themselves, just so long as they stay out of my way. You've one life to live, and your decisions to make. I can't call it for you or for anybody else. Your experience is your own.

 

I have a self imposed law about drugs in regards to myself. Don't bother with them. My life isn't particularily peachy. I've seen what drugs do to people with less than peachy lives. They become slaves to them, chasing after the only happiness they've ever known or ever will know again that pales in comparison to the meagerness of anything else that life can throw at them. I admit freely, where I ever to fall into such a trap with any sort of drug on a trip that induced happiness or good feelings of any kind, I wouldn't have the willpower to pull myself from addiction. Early on in my life I came close to self inflicted death due to depression bottoming out in me. It took me 15 years to get to where I am now and I can't even say that things are super peachy or even stable yet. 15 years for me to reassemble fragments of a person who died a long time ago into something vaguely resembling a functioning person today. I simply can't risk it.

 

Like I said, I don't care what you do with yourself. I've little ground to judge you or anybody for what you choose to do with your life. All you can do is talk to your grandma about it. If she's open, hell, go for it. If she's not, don't bug her about it. All there is to it.

[VirtualApocalypse]

I've never known someone personally whose done those types of drugs except my mom mentioned she'd done some mushrooms before I was born, so I've never seen someone first hand use it, which might contribute to why my opinion is so harsh, but I'll explain. For me personally, I will absolutely never try recreational drugs, cigarettes, or prescription drugs-(for anything other than what they were prescribed for) I hardly even drink alcohol, and when I do it's never more than a single shot or a can of beer at social events, I don't drink at all by myself.

 

As a child watching those commercials and children shows that taught lessons always left an impression on me, so it gave me a lot of old school values which stuck like, smoking is bad for you, the Don't Do Drugs campaigns (& D.rug A.buse R.esistance E.ducation), etc. I'm not sure why they stuck with me like I did, but it made my view that anybody who does those is making the wrong decision. So to avoid myself from being peer pressured into those situations I tried not to associate with those people if I could help it. Which is why I don't think my opinion changed too much as I got older.

 

I'll put this next bit in a spoiler in case people don't want to read about alcoholism.

 

Spoiler

 

But as I was in the middle of my teens my father only cemented my refusal to use anything of the sort. I knew my dad was an alcoholic, but it never really sunk in how bad it was until one night my Mother and sister were out for the night and it was just the two of us at home. Everything was fine at first, until at 4am I was woken up by this huge crash and my dad yelling a bunch of curse words which lasted for hours. I was absolutely terrified. I had never thought my dad would try and hit me, but I felt like that night he would've if I tried to talk to him. For the next 5 hours I just lied there crying too afraid to even move until he fell asleep. When I finally went upstairs I saw that my moms laptop was destroyed, his new phone was smashed, our landline was broken and lying in the sink and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff was all over the place. My mother and sister got back in the morning and when my mom tried to talk to him about everything that was all over the place he didn't remember anything. He thought we did it, that we were lying because he'd never do that. And that was just with alcohol, which anyone of age can buy, so in my mind since everyone growing up said drugs were bad then they must be so much worse.

 

After my mom and dad separated he drank more, him and my sister are no longer on speaking terms, he no longer talks to his brothers or sisters (I'm not sure what their falling out entailed, just that they aren't on speaking.) I am now the only family who talks to him and I can see how reliant he is on alcohol, he basically can't function without it. Which in turn made me resent drugs and alcohol and anything else that could potentially alter your perception.

 

 

I try not to touch drugs or anything else that could potentially get me addicted because I'm afraid of becoming reliant on any substance. Even if it makes me happy at the time, it doesn't change the fact that life would still be happening around me and after the effects wore off everything would still be that same. I view it as a short term solution in the long term that is the rest of my life, so I won't touch the stuff. Of course I'm not trying to convince anyone else what they should or should not do, everyone can make their own decisions regarding what they want to put in their body. So you could bring it up with your Grandmother and let her decide what she'd like to to about it.

[Library2]

I can't tell if you're suggesting trying to drug her, or put a lot of pressure on her to take those drugs. Just don't do it. I can understand some people feeling some benefit from taking those drugs but maybe that's just your experience and her experience might be horrific...especially if you don't tell her and she cant figure out what's going on.  Has she even tried other drugs? Why not do those drugs with a friend who would actually want to take those drugs? And yeah, I'd say the same thing about spiking someone's food/drink or pressuring with alcohol or whatever else.

 

People talk a lot on here of not wanting to be pressured to have sex so how would drugs/alcohol/whatever be any different? It sounds lame/nerdy but Just Say No to even the thought of it. And yeah, I drink beer/wine, and use CBD for high stress days but I would be really against what you're suggesting.

 

Maybe you should focus more on giving her a good death instead. Are there things, not drug/alcohol related, that you would like to do with her? Talk about? Secret code/meaning of life? Any books you think she should read as she's getting older (or anyone, you never know when it'll happen, right?) As for the funeral scene of your story, yeah, a lot of people get stuff out of their system at funerals, that sounds normal, really. I thought that was the whole purpose of funerals...cry, drink, feel sick, and move on with your life instead of being haunted by the dead. Good luck with all of that. Sounds hard but if she's not the type to take drugs, don't force it.

[Peachyy]

16 hours ago, Library2 said:

I can't tell if you're suggesting trying to drug her, or put a lot of pressure on her to take those drugs. Just don't do it. I can understand some people feeling some benefit from taking those drugs but maybe that's just your experience and her experience might be horrific...especially if you don't tell her and she cant figure out what's going on.  Has she even tried other drugs? Why not do those drugs with a friend who would actually want to take those drugs? And yeah, I'd say the same thing about spiking someone's food/drink or pressuring with alcohol or whatever else.

 

People talk a lot on here of not wanting to be pressured to have sex so how would drugs/alcohol/whatever be any different? It sounds lame/nerdy but Just Say No to even the thought of it. And yeah, I drink beer/wine, and use CBD for high stress days but I would be really against what you're suggesting.

 

Maybe you should focus more on giving her a good death instead. Are there things, not drug/alcohol related, that you would like to do with her? Talk about? Secret code/meaning of life? Any books you think she should read as she's getting older (or anyone, you never know when it'll happen, right?) As for the funeral scene of your story, yeah, a lot of people get stuff out of their system at funerals, that sounds normal, really. I thought that was the whole purpose of funerals...cry, drink, feel sick, and move on with your life instead of being haunted by the dead. Good luck with all of that. Sounds hard but if she's not the type to take drugs, don't force it.

Nowhere in my post did I say I was going to force her to take drugs. Did you not read it? 

 

Jesus FUCKING christ, dude. 

[Epitaph]

I suppose while we're on the topic of death and drugs I've a story for you. I find it strangely relevant to the conversation at hand.

 

Couple years ago I met up with an estranged grandmother on my father's side of the family. I never knew her much because my family split, and my mother didn't want anything to do with my father's side of the family. It was only after I myself approached my father that those connections began reforming. My grandma in her earlier years was a hardcore drinker. Like the majority of my father's side of the family. When I went out there to her house for an evening we had supper and talked about a wide range of things. She wasn't an alcoholic at that point, she dropped it a few years before. But she still drank from time to time. She offered me some wine. I didn't seek to make a fuss at that meeting, so I broke my rule for the first and only time, and had some. Not even enough to make me tipsy. I know the alcoholism runs damn strong in my family line. Anyway, two weeks after that night, she passed away from undiagnosed lung and bone cancer. To me the memory is funny in an odd way. What are the chances that I would meet her for the first and last time. Neither of my parents have clean hands in their history of bringing me up or their actions after they separated. But again, I just find it funny how all those years gone by was a person who wasn't nearly as bad as she was made out to be my mother. Missed opportunity for me growing up, to have a nice family member. And when it finally happened, it was too late anyway.

 

I've had a fair number of discussions with a bunch of the "oldies" in my area. Older guys who used to try that stuff when they were younger, psychadelics, I mean. Most of them say that they wouldn't try it today. The stuff's that's out there today is different from what it was back then when they took it. Plus the chances of it being laced are much higher now. I admit to curiousity about the whole thing. I don't think our world is as clear cut as people think it is. Perhaps those drugs open doors in our mind, perhaps they don't. The accounts I've listened to from the oldies are fascinating.

 

But my rule won't bend even for curiousity. It can't. I'll let you in on a little secret. I've never shaken what I saw when I was at my lowest point in depression. Death to me is a curiousity. It is THE question. It's the question I need answered more than anything in my life. I have to see and undergo the process with my own eyes, so to speak. But indulging that need would harm many others around me. And I understand how easily manipulatable this curiousity is in regards to depression. The lines between curiousity and the need to die blur when I fall into my low points. 

 

But enough of ramblings. As I said. Talk to your grandma about it. See what she feels. She's the only person who will ultimately decide where your line of thought goes on the subject. 

[Library2]

On 6/4/2018 at 10:44 PM, Peachyy said:

"I have to do psychedelics with her before she dies"

To me this can sound like you might force or strongly pressure. My interpretation of the phrase, I'm not a mind reader HA, and I was just hopeful you wouldnt do that. Thats all. 

 

As for death, someone said one time that they think of it like going someplace else (another country, etc). I might be totally wrong but I think of it like that. Kind of takes the curiosity, finality, and fear away for me.

[Guest]

If she's open to trying them, then all the power to you. I don't think at her age, she really has anything to lose, to be honest.

 

Personally, I don't do drugs. I've done tons as a youth, and if I learned anything, was that I lost myself while on them. Found myself and my true voice, once I quit. I was drawn to them initially, as I was highly conflicted. Was wasting my life. Once off of them, I found my inner peace, and made peace with others, I started making the most of my life. Appreciating it.

 

The same can't be said for everyone, but having experienced them, I don't preach to people who do drugs. I live and let live. I just choose to live my life free of them, including alcohol.

 

Not sure if this answers your question..

[njosnavelin]

I think everyone is missing the point. The discussion is not about drugging her grandmother or how you feel about  psychedelics . There is an age you can handle such powerful psychedelics in a responsible none abusive way.  This post is about freedom to choose end of life care and to coping with death or your own mortality.

 

DMT,  Psilocybin, and LSD are at the cutting edge of science right now. The science is coming back to revisit the benifts these drugs can offer to people in stage 4 cancer or other end of life illnesses. This is can be powerful and comforting tool for anyone who is facing mortality. 

 

My mother is facing this same issue right now. I have told her the possibility of maybe taking these drugs to help understand herself and her place to realize there is no death it is a transfer of energy. 

 

As of now we drug and medicate people heavily with morpheme. Morphene is a muscle relaxer. We are than relaxing the elderly to an enteral sleep without them knowing. 

 

“I embrace my desire to...I embrace my desire to...Feel the rhythm. To feel connected. Enough to step  and Weep like a widow. To feel inspired. To fathom the power. To witness the beauty. To bathe in the fountain. To swing on the spiral. To swing on the spiral. To swing on the spiral. Of our divinity and Still be a human”

 

I will offer some further reading on the subject.

 

Rick Straussman The only scientist to do an FDA approved trail using DMT.

Terrance McKenna and his amazing work on psychedelics.

Paul Stamets in-depth knowledgr of mushrooms on the joe rogan podcast 1035

John Allegro Sacred Muschrooms and the Cross  and early pre Christianity 

Graham Hancock lecturer and reporter who has made his lives work on ancient archeology, civilizations, and anthropology.

 

[Peachyy]

32 minutes ago, njosnavelin said:

I think everyone is missing the point. The discussion is not about drugging her grandmother or how you feel about  psychedelics . There is an age you can handle such powerful psychedelics in a responsible none abusive way.  This post is about freedom to choose end of life care and to coping with death or your own mortality.

 

I do want opinions, for the poll. Part of this is to get people to say what they think when they so "no". AND saying "no" because you're saying no to "drugs" is not good enough, because lumping all drugs together is harmful and unrealistic; we use drugs all the time, hell, you're never saying no. When people say that they'd never try magic mushrooms or lsd, but drink coffee and pop "medication"--do we not realize how avid drug users we are at that point? And you're sitting here saying you don't want to take a drug that might actually... help you? If ya'll don't think you use drugs, then you've fallen for their marketing. There's a reason why the legal drugs aren't called "drugs". If you know you were taught at a young age to use umbrella terms like "drugs", evolve. You're not a kid anymore. You should know what you do or don't put into your body, and it shouldn't depend on what the state says.

 

If you say you don't want to do something, fine. What's your reason? Do you really stay away from drugs, or do you only take the ones they sell to you?

 

Dmt is rad.

 

 

[njosnavelin]

5 hours ago, Peachyy said:

I do want opinions, for the poll. Part of this is to get people to say what they think when they so "no". AND saying "no" because you're saying no to "drugs" is not good enough, because lumping all drugs together is harmful and unrealistic; we use drugs all the time, hell, you're never saying no. When people say that they'd never try magic mushrooms or lsd, but drink coffee and pop "medication"--do we not realize how avid drug users we are at that point? And you're sitting here saying you don't want to take a drug that might actually... help you? If ya'll don't think you use drugs, then you've fallen for their marketing. There's a reason why the legal drugs aren't called "drugs". If you know you were taught at a young age to use umbrella terms like "drugs", evolve. You're not a kid anymore. You should know what you do or don't put into your body, and it shouldn't depend on what the state says.

 

If you say you don't want to do something, fine. What's your reason? Do you really stay away from drugs, or do you only take the ones they sell to you?

 

Dmt is rad.

 

 

I get it. I get it thank you

 

[Yatogami]

Oh the good ol' days of college.

 

People are affected by these drugs differently. Some are more resistant, others are more sensative. I find people who are used to handleing stress handle these drugs much easier. Emotional strength and maturity is a good factor to take into account of dosage, and how they react.

 

In my own experience, I am a very well grounded, and emotionally mature. I was very resistant to Acid. I had only mild anxiety from it, and very mild hallucinations (mostly seeing things in hyper detail, and bringing order to chaotic things like dirt, or wood. Making them appear as other things). I was kinda let down from the experience. My friend, who took the same dose as I did. He nearly lost his mind, and needed to be supported through his bad trip. He claimed is mind was trapped in infinite time, and was thinking about things more than he could handle. It was almost entirely emotional processing for him. My friend had just gotten back from the military, so that probably caused that effect. 

[Epitaph]

6 hours ago, Malum said:

Oh the good ol' days of college.

 

People are affected by these drugs differently. Some are more resistant, others are more sensative. I find people who are used to handleing stress handle these drugs much easier. Emotional strength and maturity is a good factor to take into account of dosage, and how they react.

 

In my own experience, I am a very well grounded, and emotionally mature. I was very resistant to Acid. I had only mild anxiety from it, and very mild hallucinations (mostly seeing things in hyper detail, and bringing order to chaotic things like dirt, or wood. Making them appear as other things). I was kinda let down from the experience. My friend, who took the same dose as I did. He nearly lost his mind, and needed to be supported through his bad trip. He claimed is mind was trapped in infinite time, and was thinking about things more than he could handle. It was almost entirely emotional processing for him. My friend had just gotten back from the military, so that probably caused that effect. 

 

Sounds a little bit like an account I heard from one of the Oldies in the area. He said that you'd think of a question, and you'd have the answer instantly. But before you could settle or think on the answer, you'd have another question, and another answer. He was wandering around on the streets like that when a man approached him, put his hand on his shoulder, and "brought him back."

[Yatogami]

6 hours ago, E is for E said:

 

Sounds a little bit like an account I heard from one of the Oldies in the area. He said that you'd think of a question, and you'd have the answer instantly. But before you could settle or think on the answer, you'd have another question, and another answer. He was wandering around on the streets like that when a man approached him, put his hand on his shoulder, and "brought him back."

Yeah, creating a teather is important. Wether it be a person, or an object. It helps.

 

For some reason, I never needed one. I ended up being the teather for my friend. 

[Epitaph]

1 hour ago, Malum said:

Yeah, creating a teather is important. Wether it be a person, or an object. It helps.

 

For some reason, I never needed one. I ended up being the teather for my friend. 

 

It's interesting to hear about. From a scientific standpoint I'm curious to know what scans of brain activity show when somebody starts drifting farther out, or when they're snapped back. I don't know if such an observation has ever been conducted. I know back when the CIA was messing around with drug trials they probably took some readings, but they probably didn't have the equipment like we do today.

[ThaHoward]

1 hour ago, E is for E said:

 

It's interesting to hear about. From a scientific standpoint I'm curious to know what scans of brain activity show when somebody starts drifting farther out, or when they're snapped back. I don't know if such an observation has ever been conducted. I know back when the CIA was messing around with drug trials they probably took some readings, but they probably didn't have the equipment like we do today.

Ketamine is a surgical anesthesia that have been widely used since the testing in the 60s.

[Epitaph]

4 hours ago, ThaHoward said:

Ketamine is a surgical anesthesia that have been widely used since the testing in the 60s.

I was thinking mainly of LSD and a few others when I wrote that. Some digging shows that most of the stuff I was thinking of still has a passing flag on it for the purpose of scientific study, which would make sense I suppose. 

[ThaHoward]

59 minutes ago, E is for E said:

I was thinking mainly of LSD and a few others when I wrote that. Some digging shows that most of the stuff I was thinking of still has a passing flag on it for the purpose of scientific study, which would make sense I suppose. 

The point is, it is well tested. Ketamin/ketalar give you sensations similar to LSD and it have been used for 40 years plus.

[Snao Cone]

I've erred on the side of caution regarding psychadelics due to a neurological condition I've had my entire life. That's it. My friends did mushrooms and acid in high school and university, and I was there with them. My best friend thoroughly researched it when our social circle first started taking mushrooms (at least researched it based on what was known and available online in 2000) and thought it best that I not take them. I haven't really revisited the idea, to be honest, and since the condition in question has worsened over the years it's probably best I don't try now.

 

It's totally fine for other people to try it, though. I can see how sharing this experience with a loved one would be meaningful, especially if doing so is also a subversive act that challenges how we're told to act at older ages and what we're told family relationships should be like.

[RK800]

I use CBD from time to time, a little damiana here and there, would love to get my hands on a blue lotus plant, maybe some dream herb, but I digress. Haven't tried LSD or shrooms, and I probably never will but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. I'm pretty open-minded and my brain already runs like a car put through a crusher so why not y'know?