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Riddle me this - Orientations and Karma


ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø

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ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø

*Note: This question is mainly for those who believe in karma and reincarnation, but others are free to answer as well.

 

Earlier today, a question came to my mind. Could sexual/romantic/sensual/aesthetic/gender orientations be part of one's karmic lessons that need to be learnt in this current life? What are your thoughts? Please elaborate in as much detail as you can. Thank you.

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NerotheReaper

Could you elaborate more what you mean? This is interesting idea. 

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I think that if they within themselves aren't lessons, they create the necessary conditions for important lessons to happen.

I've attempted to rationalize the development and need for oppression in a spiritual context, and I've dabbled with the idea that the evolution of prejudices, systematic oppression, the concept of minorities, and related things are the result of a need for the restraint and limitations that create the space for karma to be administered and soul growth to happen. I've felt moral (really mental) opposition to this rationale because I feel like, as a beneficiary of a great deal of privilege, thinking this is trivializing the real struggles faced by people who are more oppressed than I am. However, I couldn't say that this rationale on a spirit level is false if reincarnation is something that I believe could be true.

On the flip side of this, it's been mentioned to me that in past lives, I've been female (or non-male), and that I've had many lifetimes on other planets (where I assume gender isn't really a construct that affects us). I've dealt with a great amount of resistance to being in a male body and being seen as or referred to as male, a man, a boy, or any variation. Not necessarily body dysphoria, but a social and conceptual dysphoria (at the very least). I think that being in a vessel that (as far as society is concerned) is a straight white man allows me a great deal of privilege that will allow me to become more influential (which I've been told I'm meant to be) and also come into realizing that I'm entitled to feeling like I deserve more than what I mentally feel I deserve (which historically hasn't been very much).

In terms of sexuality, I don't feel that my identity is vitally important in terms of oppression and of being viewed in the public eye. Much more significance of specifically my sexual identity seems to come on a much more personal level. I've been told that in past lives, especially recently, I've depended on other people too much in terms of my own identity and that this time around I'm meant to be investing more in my identity as an individual. Being ace is important in terms of allowing myself to be with myself and establish a more personal, individual identity. Figuring out that I'm ace while being in relationships has allowed me to establish proper boundaries through figuring out what I even enjoy and think of myself.

I'm not sure this came across as eloquently or concisely as I would've liked, and I'm sure I'll have more to add (because I think about this quite a bit), but this is more or less what I have for now.

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I'm not a solidified believer of reincarnation but I acknowledge karma's existence. When most people hear the word karma they assume "good" and "bad." In the books I've read, actual karma is considered simply the results of your actions coming back at you, not with any good or evil intent inherent to them. In modern scientific terms this is merely known as cause and effect. They're one and the same.

 

As far as reincarnation goes, I've read some compelling cases out there. But so far I've not seen anything that can be replicated with 100% accuracy or as close to it as possible. So in that line of thought, personally, I don't much see our sexuality or tendencies as being karmic lessons from previous lives. Frankly, I don't find the logic there. How am I going to learn in this life from a previous one if I don't know what happened in a previous life? It'd be exactly like hitting a kid when they did something wrong, but never explaining to them what they did wrong to begin with. I'm a much more efficient learner if I actually survive through my poor decision making and its results.

 

 

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ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø
28 minutes ago, E is for E said:

As far as reincarnation goes, I've read some compelling cases out there. But so far I've not seen anything that can be replicated with 100% accuracy or as close to it as possible. So in that line of thought, personally, I don't much see our sexuality or tendencies as being karmic lessons from previous lives. Frankly, I don't find the logic there. How am I going to learn in this life from a previous one if I don't know what happened in a previous life? It'd be exactly like hitting a kid when they did something wrong, but never explaining to them what they did wrong to begin with. I'm a much more efficient learner if I actually survive through my poor decision making and its results.

I see your point, but I am not implying karma from previous lives. I am implying that maybe there are lessons for this life in such orientations that could help us advance spiritually. I hope I made sense.

1 hour ago, NerotheReaper said:

Could you elaborate more what you mean? This is interesting idea. 

For example, I think that being ace/aro is teaching me to be able to validate myself without the help of anyone else. I am blessed. However, I do experience limited aesthetic attraction (I wish I felt none of that either). Maybe there's a lesson of self-acceptance in that?

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28 minutes ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

I see your point, but I am not implying karma from previous lives. I am implying that maybe there are lessons for this life in such orientations that could help us advance spiritually. I hope I made sense.

For example, I think that being ace/aro is teaching me to be able to validate myself without the help of anyone else. I am blessed. However, I do experience limited aesthetic attraction (I wish I felt none of that either). Maybe there's a lesson of self-acceptance in that?

I hear ya. I'm not particularily spiritual myself. Never one to put much faith in anything I can't see for myself firsthand. 

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No. That makes no logical sense. 

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1 hour ago, E is for E said:

I'm not a solidified believer of reincarnation but I acknowledge karma's existence. When most people hear the word karma they assume "good" and "bad." In the books I've read, actual karma is considered simply the results of your actions coming back at you, not with any good or evil intent inherent to them. In modern scientific terms this is merely known as cause and effect. They're one and the same.

 

As far as reincarnation goes, I've read some compelling cases out there. But so far I've not seen anything that can be replicated with 100% accuracy or as close to it as possible. So in that line of thought, personally, I don't much see our sexuality or tendencies as being karmic lessons from previous lives. Frankly, I don't find the logic there. How am I going to learn in this life from a previous one if I don't know what happened in a previous life? It'd be exactly like hitting a kid when they did something wrong, but never explaining to them what they did wrong to begin with. I'm a much more efficient learner if I actually survive through my poor decision making and its results.

 

 

If it's just cause and effect what is the significance of calling it karma? 

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I think the concept of previous lives might seem appealing because we might see our "true" selves as something beyond current conditions. 

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13 minutes ago, m4rble said:

If it's just cause and effect what is the significance of calling it karma? 

Karma was the term used several thousand years before the scientific notion of cause and effect was likely ever conceived in European circles. India and China, and the locale around them has very, very old surviving civilizations. In their own ways, relative to their time period, people figured out aspects to the world and universe around them. No different than the construction of the pyramids in Egypt or in the South Americas where the Mayans and Incans existed. People weren't as dumb as we figure they were back then. They still had the capacity in them to put pieces of the puzzle together, albeit in their own unique way. The significance merely arises from culture.

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1 minute ago, E is for E said:

Karma was the term used several thousand years before the scientific notion of cause and effect was likely ever conceived in European circles. India and China, and the locale around them has very, very old surviving civilizations. In their own ways, relative to their time period, people figured out aspects to the world and universe around them. No different than the construction of the pyramids in Egypt or in the South Americas where the Mayans and Incans existed. People weren't as dumb as we figure they were back then. They still had the capacity in them to put pieces of the puzzle together, albeit in their own unique way. The significance merely arises from culture.

Infants and animals know about cause and effect, it wasn't discovered by European scientists. 

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ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø
3 hours ago, oldsoulvocalist said:

I've dealt with a great amount of resistance to being in a male body and being seen as or referred to as male, a man, a boy, or any variation. Not necessarily body dysphoria, but a social and conceptual dysphoria (at the very least).

I don't know if I will come across as rude for saying this, but have you considered identifying as 'agender'?

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2 minutes ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

I don't know if I will come across as rude for saying this, but have you considered identifying as 'agender'?

It doesn't come across as rude, and I definitely have. In fact, I still am. I don't know if that label is exactly how I want to identify, but I do feel that way. I've also considered the idea that it does have to do with self-acceptance on a physical level, but I'm feeling like it's more about self-acceptance on the level that I operate and live based on how I feel and not just how I appear. I've feared that I've resisted being male because of toxic masculinity, especially that I've experienced firsthand, but I do feel as time goes on that I identify even less with being a man. It's been an interesting space to be in, and I'm glad you mention it because that's basically how I've felt recently.

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15 minutes ago, m4rble said:

Infants and animals know about cause and effect, it wasn't discovered by European scientists. 

Yes, but infants and animals didn't name cause and effect. They don't treat it as an existing aspect to the world and reality itself as far as we know. Infants and animals also don't have the cognitive capacity to apply cause and effect as part of an equation to a long timespan. They only know of cause and effect as brief moments. But you're not wrong. It wasn't discovered by European scientists. It was discovered, named, introduced and cataloged as a far reaching concept to human beings, likely in the older civilizations in China and India through the spread of religious aspects, and perhaps probably earlier than that even.

 

 

 

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ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø
1 hour ago, oldsoulvocalist said:

It doesn't come across as rude, and I definitely have. In fact, I still am. I don't know if that label is exactly how I want to identify, but I do feel that way. I've also considered the idea that it does have to do with self-acceptance on a physical level, but I'm feeling like it's more about self-acceptance on the level that I operate and live based on how I feel and not just how I appear. I've feared that I've resisted being male because of toxic masculinity, especially that I've experienced firsthand, but I do feel as time goes on that I identify even less with being a man. It's been an interesting space to be in, and I'm glad you mention it because that's basically how I've felt recently.

Glad I could help. If you ever need anything, just send me a personal message.

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I believe in karma. I think am transsexual because I offended  a transsexual in the past life, so in this life I should learn to accept my gender and sexuality. 

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Spoiled Cyborg

As far as I'm familiar with the Buddhist explanation of karma, what we get in this life is not really a lesson, but just a legacy of what we have done in the past lives. If we have asexual or aromantic tendencies in this lifetime, we might have had them in the previous lives, for instance, we could have been monks or nuns. And generally, it is perhaps good news rather than bad news.

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  • 1 month later...

Personally, I don't believe in karma or reincarnation. I think that they've been used to justify a great deal of harmful social stratification (for example, the Indian caste system).

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