ToS addition – Regarding minor attraction and pedophilia topics on AVEN

[Randomchaos]

AVEN moderation has decided to create a new policy regarding minor attraction and pedophilia topics on the AVEN forums. The new policy is as follows:

 

Quote

 

2.m Minor attraction and pedophilia topics

1) No links relating expressly to minor attraction or pedophilia will be allowed on the AVEN boards

2) No topics may be created that focus on minor attraction or pedophilia. Topics that are created about other subjects but drift to focus on minor attraction or pedophilia will be asked by mods to find a different focus. Small mentions of minor attraction or pedophilia that don't redirect conversations to focus on that subject are still acceptable (for example, providing links to research that might include individuals with a range of sexual experiences, one of those experiences happening to be minor attraction or pedophilia)

3) This policy doesn't prevent members discussing their experiences, for those who have been subjected to child abuse. In such cases, we ask replies focus on support for the member, rather than become a general discussion about pedophilia.

 

 

The reason for this change is to keep both AVEN staff and membership safe from potentially harmful situations. The links will be banned to ensure no child porn or related content will ever be shared on the open boards, and to ensure that staff (as well as members) don't have to click on the links to be sure they are not child porn or related websites that staff and members don't wish to be associated with. Even clicking a link to such content can get both staff and members into legal trouble related to viewing it, and we don't want any individuals to fear that they aren't legally safe while using the site.

 

In addition, AVEN is open to members as young as 13. There have been instances in which AVEN members over the age of 18 expressed romantic intent to minors on the boards, and though such situations have always been handled quickly and professionally in the past, leadership hopes to further dissuade members from acting in that way by making it clear the subject is not welcome on the forum. As in the past, members who are minors and feel unsafe or anyone who feels concerned for a minor on the site is encouraged to report to administrators or moderators promptly whatever they are concerned about, and leadership hopes this choice will help reduce any such circumstances.

 

This new policy will be on a trial period of 6 months, at which point it will be re-evaluated. Admods will review this in the month of December, 2018.

 

AVEN's goal is first and foremost Visibility and Education about Asexuality. We believe this policy will help us focus on that goal and make the forums a safer place for all.

 

The AVEN Admod team

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

AVEN's goal is first and foremost Visibility and Education about Asexuality.

 

Agreed! That;s what AVEN is about.

[MoraDollie]

I get why this is being a thing, but what about those inquiring about research into said material,since it is a human sexuality topic? From a scholastic/academic point of view and all that, just have the proper tw/cw. 

[michaeld]

2 hours ago, Kumoku said:

I get why this is being a thing, but what about those inquiring about research into said material,since it is a human sexuality topic? From a scholastic/academic point of view and all that, just have the proper tw/cw. 

Research queries that are not suitable, for whatever reason, for the forums could be sent to info@asexuality.org, and we'd pass on any relevant research we know of, or direct them to someone who can help.

[Puck]

2 hours ago, Kumoku said:

I get why this is being a thing, but what about those inquiring about research into said material,since it is a human sexuality topic? From a scholastic/academic point of view and all that, just have the proper tw/cw. 

If the topic is only about minor attraction or pedophilia, it would not be welcome. If it was a research topic focusing on something other than those topics that happen to mention them as examples or something (say, they were focusing on people who were trying to change their orientation such as some who experience minor attraction [just pulling a random idea out of my head, not saying all minor attracted folks are trying to change their orientation]) then it would be allowed. The conversation that would take place AVEN on that research would be expected to focus on concepts other than minor attraction/pedophilia however.

 

Remember that we are a forum that focuses on asexuality, not human sexuality, so the forums aren't necessarily trying to be a place that allows for any sexuality conversation nor or we necessarily equipped to handle any conversation.

[Joe the Stoic]

Excellent work here, admod team.  It just wouldn't be the ToS without fuzzy, ill-defined language that will allow you to enforce it selectively.

[erf]

Good.

[StormySky]

I saw the word "minor" and my first thought was music lol. 

 

But anyways, good job clearing stuff up with the ToS

[Guest]

Why in the world would you come to AVEN and try to do research on pedophilia? That would be like going to the MLA website and asking about physics. 

[MoraDollie]

6 hours ago, Idontknowaboutthat. said:

Why in the world would you come to AVEN and try to do research on pedophilia? That would be like going to the MLA website and asking about physics. 

I'm saying discussing scholastic articles on the subject. Talking about healthy/sane ways to deal with them. We have topics all over the map in the hot box, so I don't see why pedophilia is suddenly a banned discussion but all other topics (just about) are a free-for-all in the hot box. 

 

The only thing I'm saying is that we should be able to discuss it in the hot box, with the proper TWs/CWs. 

[fiѕh]

Eh, doesn't seem fuzzy to me... actually sounds pretty clear to me. Talking about pedophilia = ok, focusing on it as the main topic = not ok.

[Puck]

1 hour ago, Kumoku said:

I'm saying discussing scholastic articles on the subject. Talking about healthy/sane ways to deal with them. We have topics all over the map in the hot box, so I don't see why pedophilia is suddenly a banned discussion but all other topics (just about) are a free-for-all in the hot box. 

 

The only thing I'm saying is that we should be able to discuss it in the hot box, with the proper TWs/CWs. 

Not all topics are ok. For example, someone talking about wanting to kill themselves or commit self harm is not ok. That's because it's something that has a history of causing real life problems/danger for members actively because of the conversation. Minor attraction and pedophilia also have a history of causing real life problems/danger for members. We have minors on this site and want to keep them safe. Talking to minors about minor attraction, if not done responsibly, could seem like grooming, which is illegal in many countries. I do believe many sites are equipt to handle such conversations; I do NOT believe AVEN currently is.

 

Additionally, we want to keep members safe from links to questionable sites so that they don't have to deal with the real life issues that might come from clicking pedophilia/minor focused links on their computer. Many links about illegal things one can click fearlessly. For example, I can go look at pictures of cocaine as much as I want with no fear of being arrested just for that. However, some pedophilia links can put a person on a list of potential pedophiles or, in a worst-case scenario, some links could lead to child porn itself. Admods would never want members to risk their safety clicking on links.

 

I totally agree that conversations can be civil and purely academic, that they can be beneficial and educational. But I don't believe AVEN has taken the steps necessary to ensure those conversations are all on the up and up, so I believe other places are more ideal to have these conversations.

 

To be super clear, this isn't just being banned because it's a controversial subject or something- Controversial subjects are still allowed. However, like suicide content, this has potential real legal and safety issues surrounding it that other controversial conversations would never have. Those are the reasons admods have voted to treat this subject uniquely.

[Guest]

Ironically we are talking about pedophilia right now.  I personally see no issue with the way we are discussing it because we are talking about it in regards to this rule (which falls under admod criticism and explaination of the rule itself).

[Guest]

Another thing is, as was discussed in site comments, due to the potential legal issues admods are not trained in handling minor sex offense cases especially at an international level. As an admod i saw clearly illegal in the U.S activity allowed for weeks while trying to decide if it was OK or not. I also saw everyone afraid to check a link that I am not sure would count as child porn or not, resulting in delays of handling it. I reported it to authoritiez to be sure my bases were covered as there were a lot of nude children on the site. 

 

If admods are going to be volunteers without training in legal issues, they have to be able to say "hey we arent comfortable dealing with this issue since we dont know the legal lines". 

 

No one wants to be fired, or arrested, for volunteering as an admod. And some links posted pose that risk. To admods and users.

 

Also everyone wants to protect minors and its hard when such topics are OK. Now they can hopefully end grooming discussions quickly and take action as needed. 

 

The ability to academically discuss this topic doesnt outweigh the risks involved. People go too far talking about it. 

[LeChat]

14 minutes ago, Serran said:

...I also saw everyone afraid to check a link that I am not sure would count as child porn or not, resulting in delays of handling it. I reported it to authoritiez to be sure my bases were covered as there were a lot of nude children on the site...

Oh. I see. I didn't see the site. 

 

Yes, sites like that are definitely not normal or what most reputable websites allow on their websites. I've heard of places like Facebook removing them because it's against their TOS. And real-life crime shows that discussed it, like 20/20, have mentioned it, too. It's definitely a red flag. I'd say you were right about it.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

Oh. I see. I didn't see the site. 

 

Yes, sites like that are definitely not normal or what most reputable websites allow on their websites. I've heard of places like Facebook removing them because it's against their TOS. And real-life crime shows that discussed it, like 20/20, have mentioned it, too. It's definitely a red flag. I'd say you were right about it.

I only saw cause i was an admod at the time. But that is the sort of thing admods dont want to and are not trained to handle. And leaving the door open to such threads was causing it to happen too much.