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A bit of complaining


Lara Black

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Lara Black

Hello, AVENites.

I’ve been here for some time and many of you know and even remember (I’m being immodest) that I have an ace partner whom I deeply love. We’re really happy together, and on AVEN I strive to occupy the niche for cynical optimists – I know mixed relationships aren’t for everybody, but I keep saying that things can be great. And they are for us.

But sometimes I have my low points, and today is one of them. While reading my morning feed of FB friends’ news, I stumbled across one guy posting a photo of himself with his new girlfriend. And the caption was, “I don’t have anything smart to say anymore, but I’m so in love that I just can’t stop bragging”. And it just hit me – my partner will never brag about us, about me like this. And it’s maddening! I’m smart, pretty, I make a great partner (he says so himself) – I deserve to be prized, bragged about. The problem is that my partner just doesn’t feel things like that: passion, ecstasy of being in love etc. – same as he doesn’t have sexual feelings. He’s not totally aromantic, but his feelings are very – for the lack of a better word – quiet. Mostly I’m fine with it – I remember that he loves me as much as he can, but… Yeah, there is a “but”. Sometimes it feels like I have to remember too many things at a time: I remember that he loves me; I remember that he is just a very private person and not hiding me from his old friends; I remember that the absence of sex doesn’t mean anything bad etc. I really like the analogy of asexuality being a different language from what I speak. And it’s like I have to constantly translate my love into his language and what he does – back into mine.

When I’m much too tired or sick (like today – I have a mean cold), it gets very hard to translate.

So, here is my rant. I'm not really looking for any advice, but would appreciate support and commiseration.

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Telecaster68

I know exactly what you mean - having to 'translate' all the time, and self correct when partners seem to be acting like they don't care, or they're not interested, gets wearying, especially when you see a far more demonstrative couple.

 

It's not necessarily anything to do with asexuality, but the lack of affect (to use the psychological term) does seem to be there with asexual people quite frequently, from what partners say. With my wife, it's as though her emotions are shown on a scale of -2 to +2, whereas most people go from -10 to +10. She's implied her actual emotions are muted like that too. She also has some fairly Asperger traits, so I wonder if it's linked to that, too.

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I'm sorry Lara, yeah, that's gotta be tough. My situation is... well, not the same at all... but despite that, I've experienced something similar emotionally for entirely different reasons. It can be incredibly painful seeing others posting about something you wish so much was true for you as well. And since I have a good understanding of asexuality, I know quite well what you mean about the lack of passion. It's... yeah... just not experienced in the same way.

 

Anyways, I don't have much of any use to offer, I'm afraid. But commiseration -- I can do that, haha.

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Tarfeather
3 hours ago, Lara Black said:

But sometimes I have my low points, and today is one of them. While reading my morning feed of FB friends’ news, I stumbled across one guy posting a photo of himself with his new girlfriend. And the caption was, “I don’t have anything smart to say anymore, but I’m so in love that I just can’t stop bragging”. And it just hit me – my partner will never brag about us, about me like this. And it’s maddening! I’m smart, pretty, I make a great partner (he says so himself) – I deserve to be prized, bragged about. The problem is that my partner just doesn’t feel things like that: passion, ecstasy of being in love etc. – same as he doesn’t have sexual feelings. He’s not totally aromantic, but his feelings are very – for the lack of a better word – quiet. Mostly I’m fine with it – I remember that he loves me as much as he can, but… Yeah, there is a “but”. Sometimes it feels like I have to remember too many things at a time: I remember that he loves me; I remember that he is just a very private person and not hiding me from his old friends; I remember that the absence of sex doesn’t mean anything bad etc. I really like the analogy of asexuality being a different language from what I speak. And it’s like I have to constantly translate my love into his language and what he does – back into mine.

When I’m much too tired or sick (like today – I have a mean cold), it gets very hard to translate.

So, here is my rant. I'm not really looking for any advice, but would appreciate support and commiseration.

Oh boy, I can relate so well to that. I'm particularly reminded of one day when we were invited to a friend's place, and we were playing a "truth or dare" kind of game with a bunch of people. C. was posed the question of who she found attractive in the group, and she answered with "nobody". It struck me then, the same way it must have struck you when you read that FB post. That for other people, it's entirely normal to find their partner attractive, and to feel proud of having such a partner, wanting to brag about them, etc.

 

Spoiler

8X2vlZO.png

 

Yep, there's a reason I have that as avatar, I find the character very relatable and the way he handles his situation very inspirational.

 

Quote

I’m smart, pretty, I make a great partner (he says so himself) – I deserve to be prized, bragged about.

In my personal view, which is a view I've developed from necessity by never really having anyone take a romantic interest in me, it's extremely important to keep the former part of that quote in mind, while disconnecting it from the latter. Yes, it's true that you're smart, pretty, and have many other amazing qualities that make you a great partner. However, that doesn't mean you deserve anything. Nobody does.

 

We can't really influence how others think or how they react to us. We only have control over ourselves. That's why it's so important to be independent of how others see us. To be secure in your own positive view of yourself, and not to let others influence that. Sure, a lot of other people get that affirmation delivered to them from a partner or some such, but that doesn't mean they're "better" or "more deserving". It just means they happen to have it easier. With regards to romantic satisfaction, we're basically playing in "hard mode". Life isn't fair.

 

 

And by the way, I know that you know that, and that you're choosing to be in this relationship precisely because you're not dependent on that external affirmation, and that the "I deserve" thing was more meant as an emotional outburst than a statement of fact. I just wanted to put that view out in the open again, because sometimes I think it's tempting to give in to that kind of emotional selfishness (after all, other people get to behave that way, so why shouldn't we, right?).

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Lara Black
29 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

It just means they happen to have it easier. With regards to romantic satisfaction, we're basically playing in "hard mode". Life isn't fair.

Thanks for the example – it good to know we have some similar experiences. I love this analogy - yeah, we chose to play it on hard mode.

30 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

And by the way, I know that you know that, and that you're choosing to be in this relationship precisely because you're not dependent on that external affirmation, and that the "I deserve" thing was more meant as an emotional outburst than a statement of fact. I just wanted to put that view out in the open again, because sometimes I think it's tempting to give in to that kind of emotional selfishness (after all, other people get to behave that way, so why shouldn't we, right?).

You’re absolutely right – it’s all just tired ranting

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5 hours ago, Lara Black said:

...I have an ace partner whom I deeply love. We’re really happy together, and on AVEN I strive to occupy the niche for cynical optimists – I know mixed relationships aren’t for everybody, but I keep saying that things can be great. And they are for us.

But sometimes I have my low points, and today is one of them. While reading my morning feed of FB friends’ news, I stumbled across one guy posting a photo of himself with his new girlfriend. And the caption was, “I don’t have anything smart to say anymore, but I’m so in love that I just can’t stop bragging”. And it just hit me – my partner will never brag about us, about me like this...

Hello. I'm unsure whether this is, exclusively, an "ace thing." It might just be how a person was brought up (i.e., not to brag about their lives or accomplishments to others.)

 

I have married relatives (who are or appear to be heterosexual) who were born in other countries, and my cousins (who were heterosexual and ended up married to other heterosexuals) and I were brought up that it's rude to brag; so my relatives never wrote anything like that about their girlfriend/wife/kids on their FB pages. Yes, they'd post photos, but not all the time and not for every accomplishment they or their kids had in their lives; they wouldn't overly brag about them or themselves like that. They'd just caption their photos with simple things like: "With my family/girlfriend at (name of city/venue)" etc., not "Wow! I have the best girlfriend/family in the whole world! We're the best!"

 

I've also heard from people in other countries--like the U.K., Japan, and some European countries--that, in their culture, they're taught not to brag about their lives to other people (because their parents taught them it's rude or appears to be conceited); they've expressed surprise at this difference between their upbringing and people they meet in the U.S. or Americans who visit their country.

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Telecaster68
29 minutes ago, Thea2 said:

Actually that story doesn't quite say that, but I know it's being discussed. It was also dropped in the latest edition of the DSM. But real people (including professionals and aspies) still use it. It's quicker and more understandable than People With High Functioning Autism, which is what they replaced it with. Labels, schmabels.

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26 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

Hello. I'm unsure whether this is an "ace thing." It might just be how a person was brought up (i.e., not to brag about their lives or accomplishments to others.)

This was exactly how my family was.  In fact, I was punished for showing strong emotions of any sort.  While I don’t typically show them, though, I absolutely do have/feel them.

 

I’m sure it’s hard for my friends who came from less stoicism-valuing environments to relate.

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11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

... Labels, schmabels.

The link with nazis makes the term offensive to me. 

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Telecaster68

Yeah, I can see that, but it's still current and well understood. 

 

Hitler also (effectively) commissioned the VW Beetle and got Coca Cola to invent Fanta as an Nazi-acceptable alternative to Coke. James Watson has some very dodgy views about eugenics. Churchill was a racist imperialist. Should we airbrush all that as well?

 

But we're getting way off-topic, and not for the first time...

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I took PsychCentral’s autism spectrum screening quiz just now to see if I was missing something obvious about myself (since tele and others keep bringing it up), but apparently I’m not... I scored at the midpoint of the “no sign of autism” range.

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Telecaster68

As a Brit I default to the same attitude, but I do wonder if it's healthy. Surely we should celebrate the good stuff and enjoy it?

 

I don't think most Americans do it to brag, we just interpret it like that.

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Lara Black
40 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

I'm unsure whether this is, exclusively, an "ace thing." It might just be how a person was brought up (i.e., not to brag about their lives or accomplishments to others.)

Hello, InquisitivePhilosopher,

It’s not really about just demonstration. It’s like @Telecaster68 describes it – about much less powerful emotions. This might not be an ace-specific thing, but from what I’ve read here, it’s many sexual partners’ woe – our loved ones don’t seem to feel as strongly as we do… anything.

I might have phrased the reason for my current misery a bit awkwardly… or more as an emotional metaphor - it resonated with many sexual partners, but might look wrong for those who haven’t experienced something similar.

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Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

I took PsychCentral’s autism spectrum screening quiz just now to see if I was missing something obvious about myself (since tele and others keep bringing it up), but apparently I’m not... I scored at the midpoint of the “no sign of autism” range.

Please don't think I was having a go. It just is the case that people on the spectrum are more likely to identify as non-straight sexualities or genders.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

As a Brit I default to the same attitude, but I do wonder if it's healthy. Surely we should celebrate the good stuff and enjoy it?

 

I don't think most Americans do it to brag, we just interpret it like that.

Yeah, I wasn’t implying it’s healthy - just that there is a lot more to it than orientation.

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yeah, I can see that, but it's still current and well understood. 

 

Hitler also (effectively) commissioned the VW Beetle and got Coca Cola to invent Fanta as an Nazi-acceptable alternative to Coke. James Watson has some very dodgy views about eugenics. Churchill was a racist imperialist. Should we airbrush all that as well?

 

But we're getting way off-topic, and not for the first time...

No airbrushing. I just support a name change.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

Please don't think I was having a go. It just is the case that people on the spectrum are more likely to identify as non-straight sexualities or genders.

Oh, I didn’t.  I was just checking to see if it did apply to me, rather than carrying on assuming it didn’t.

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Telecaster68
5 minutes ago, Lara Black said:

Hello, InquisitivePhilosopher,

It’s not really about just demonstration. It’s like @Telecaster68 describes it – about much less powerful emotions. This might not be an ace-specific thing, but from what I’ve read here, it’s many sexual partners’ woe – our loved ones don’t seem to feel as strongly as we do… anything.

I might have phrased the reason for my current misery a bit awkwardly… or more as an emotional metaphor - it resonated with many sexual partners, but might look wrong for those who haven’t experienced something similar.

My wife has explicitly said this. I was fairly gently, but persistently asking questions trying to understand what emotions she did experience in our relationship, and eventually she said 'you're trying to dig down to something that just isn't there'...

 

[ETA: but she's adamant she does love me. For her, this is demonstrated sufficiently by not moving out apparently. I need a little more...]

 

At the same time, she does get upset at major life events, but they tend to turn into her sleeping a lot, or having stomach upsets - it's very, very predictable, but she doesn't see the pattern, though she accepts it's there when I point it out. I think it's some kind of alexithymia. 

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3 minutes ago, Lara Black said:

It’s not really about just demonstration. It’s like @Telecaster68 describes it – about much less powerful emotions. 

There are probably plenty of examples of both... people who feel emotions less strongly and others (like me) who feel them very strongly but grew up learning the “right” thing to do was to suppress/not show them at all costs.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

At the same time, she does get upset at major life events, but they tend to turn into her sleeping a lot, or having stomach upsets - it's very, very predictable, but she doesn't see the pattern, though she accepts it's there when I point it out. I think it's some kind of alexithymia. 

My (sexual) husband is very much like this (except for accepting when pointed out 😂 ).

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Tarfeather
8 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I took PsychCentral’s autism spectrum screening quiz just now to see if I was missing something obvious about myself (since tele and others keep bringing it up), but apparently I’m not... I scored at the midpoint of the “no sign of autism” range.

Off topic, but thanks for pointing out that test. I fell square in the "possible autism" range, which is as expected. Still rather confused as to why with my long history of seeking out mental health professionals and being subjected to all kinds of tests, that possibility never came up. Then again, it's completely in line with the general incompetence I've witnessed from these people.

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l..lol this is gonna sound terrible but @Tarfeather's story about C saying "nobody" in truth or dare when she was asked who she was attracted to.... that EXACT SAME THING actually happened at a party i went to with my gf and uh, yeah, i think i hurt her pretty badly. It wasn't something I even realised would hurt her at the time until I reflected on it. They asked for the truth and I wasn't thinking that deeply and it was the first damn thing that came out of my mouth. :( tbh I still feel a bit bad about it ...........

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Same here I think

We were just on vacation in a very romantic place.  It was so painful to see lots of other affectionate loving couples, while we were...sort of like friends.  I'm starting to try to avoid ever going to places where lovers go. 

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Tarfeather
1 hour ago, gaogao said:

l..lol this is gonna sound terrible but @Tarfeather's story about C saying "nobody" in truth or dare when she was asked who she was attracted to.... that EXACT SAME THING actually happened at a party i went to with my gf and uh, yeah, i think i hurt her pretty badly. It wasn't something I even realised would hurt her at the time until I reflected on it. They asked for the truth and I wasn't thinking that deeply and it was the first damn thing that came out of my mouth. :( tbh I still feel a bit bad about it ...........

You are honest about your feelings. I think that's important, and I don't think that sugar coating the truth, even to a group, would achieve anything. Honestly, I wish C. would have realized the implications of what she was saying without me bringing it up. Her lack of empathy tires me out a lot more than does her asexuality.

 

I have no idea what your relationship is like, but if in that moment when she said that she found nobody attractive, C. had looked at me and squeezed my hand or something, I wouldn't have felt hurt. Having my needs recognized is important to me, even if they aren't met. It's the fact that I always have to bring the subject up, remind her of it, that bothers me.

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