On Chesil Beach

[Telecaster68]

The film is out now, based on a novel by Ian McEwan. I knew the general set up but not the full story, which is rather appropriate for here...

 

Here's the synopsis (and for once, using the 'spoiler' tag for its intended purpose!)

 

Spoiler

 

In July 1962, Edward Mayhew, a graduate student of history, and Florence Ponting, a violinist of a string quartet, have just been married and are spending their honeymoon in a small hotel on the Dorset seashore, at Chesil Beach. The two are very much in love despite being from drastically different backgrounds.

 

During the course of an evening, both reflect upon their upbringing and the prospect of their futures. Edward is sexually motivated and though intelligent has a taste for rash behaviour, while Florence, bound by the social code of another era and perhaps having been sexually abused by her father,^[1] is terrified of sexual intimacy. Florence tries to mentally prepare herself for the inevitable consummation, but the thought of it continues to repulse her.

 

When the couple are finally about to have sex, Edward becomes overexcited and ejaculates on Florence's stomach before the intercourse can begin. Disgusted, Florence storms out. When Edward follows, the couple get into an argument where Florence makes it clear that she is not interested in ever having sex. Edward accuses her of lying to him during their marriage vows (in which there is a vow of sexual fulfilment), and is further angered when Florence suggests he sleep with other women to fulfil his sexual desires. In turn, Florence accuses him of being insensitive and aggressive. The couple separate, and the lack of consummation annuls the marriage.

 

 

Anyone thinking of seeing it with their asexual partner?

[Traveler40]

Honestly, I think it would go over my husband’s head given he’s not sex repulsed.  He just wouldn’t identify with it even though he has zero desire or thought for intimacy of any kind.  I can guess he might even sit in judgment of Florence ironically. Perhaps this from a man who did not participate sexually in any way during his own honeymoon. I think I’ll skip it as well. Thanks for the synopsis though which was enough. 

[Browncoat10]

Studied this at A-level! It's a great book. I was planning on seeing it anyway cos I like McEwan. (I realise this question wasn't really aimed at me seeing as I'm ace and single and not really sex-repulsed, but never mind...) Might go with some mates.

 

Spoiler

In terms of it being "appropriate for here" though... I see what you're getting at, although the suggestion that her repulsion stems from sexual abuse obviously sheds doubt on whether she's actually ace or not. Mind you, it's such a blink and you'll miss it part of the book that she could well still be ace. I know loads of people who've read it who never thought she was abused.

 

[Telecaster68]

The wikipedia entry includes a comment from McEwan about possible causes, which says much the same thing - that some people probably wouldn't pick it up and that's fine with him.

 

For sexual partners, the whole issue of whether knowing about potential asexuality before marriage, education, and opening the relationship is going to chime fairly strongly, I think.

[iff]

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

The wikipedia entry includes a comment from McEwan about possible causes, which says much the same thing - that some people probably wouldn't pick it up and that's fine with him.

.

It had only been when i reread on chesil beach that I had picked up on that.

 

I might go and see it on may 29th but on my own. Depends on schedules.

[Traveler40]

“For sexual partners, the whole issue of whether knowing about potential asexuality before marriage, education, and opening the relationship is going to chime fairly strongly, I think.”

 

Got it - given your input, I’ll check it out.  Thanks Telecaster68

 

 

[Traveler40]

So, I brought this up to my husband and explained a bit of why it might be good to see this film, and he hit the roof. 😳. My husband rarely gets upset, but apparently my time on AVEN is pushing him to awareness and discussions he’d rather not have with regularity.  Perhaps he’s tired this morning, yet to be so obstinate about a movie we’ve not yet seen, along with angst on where I got the tip, was slightly fascinating to behold. Maybe he’s tired, but that was odd to say the least!

[ryn2]

This reminds me of semi-tricking my husband - who comes from a massively codependent, no-boundaries family and is the child of an alcoholic - into seeing “Rachel Getting Married.”

 

It didn’t go well.

[Telecaster68]

15 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

So, I brought this up to my husband and explained a bit of why it might be good to see this film, and he hit the roof. 😳. My husband rarely gets upset, but apparently my time on AVEN is pushing him to awareness and discussions he’d rather not have with regularity.  Perhaps he’s tired this morning, yet to be so obstinate about a movie we’ve not yet seen, along with angst on where I got the tip, was slightly fascinating to behold. Maybe he’s tired, but that was odd to say the least!

How did you explain why it might be a good thing to see it, out of interest?

[Traveler40]

I skimmed the synopsis on Wikipedia prior and generally outlined the film for him along with telling him where the inspiration came from to see it.   I went on to mention that although Florence may have had other things going on with her past, the result was the same with regard to lack of desire for sexual intimacy.  Maybe watching some of our struggle could be beneficial.  I know they don’t stay together in the film and think about what could have been - - and said that.  perhaps that’s what got him.  I’m not sure.

[ryn2]

24 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

How did you explain why it might be a good thing to see it, out of interest?

Why do you think it would be a good idea to see it (as a couple, I mean, as opposed to seeing it alone to feel... understood?)?

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

I know they don’t stay together in the film and think about what could have been - - and said that.  perhaps that’s what got him

From the book, at least, it feels to me like the message from an unhappy sexual spouse to an ace spouse is “see?  This is why I would be justified in leaving you.”  That could definitely drive conversation, but I guess it depends on the ultimate desired outcome.

[Browncoat10]

MAJOR SPOILERS below...

 

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

From the book, at least, it feels to me like the message from an unhappy sexual spouse to an ace spouse is “see?  This is why I would be justified in leaving you.”  That could definitely drive conversation, but I guess it depends on the ultimate desired outcome.

Spoiler

 

But they also both regret immensely splitting up. The whole thing is set on that one night, but then in like the last 3 pages McEwan skims through about 60 years (or whatever it is) and it's revealed that they both wish they'd stayed together. 

 

I don't really know how that changes things in terms of seeing it as a couple, but it's probably worth knowing, especially if them breaking up at the end of the book is the reason anyone doesn't want to see the film.

 

[Telecaster68]

I suspect that he just doesn't want two hours of having the problem in his face, followed by potential conversations about it afterwards. 

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, Browncoat10 said:

MAJOR SPOILERS below...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

But they also both regret immensely splitting up. The whole thing is set on that one night, but then in like the last 3 pages McEwan skims through about 60 years (or whatever it is) and it's revealed that they both wish they'd stayed together. 

 

I don't really know how that changes things in terms of seeing it as a couple, but it's probably worth knowing, especially if them breaking up at the end of the book is the reason anyone doesn't want to see the film.

 

True.  I somehow got the impression that was cut out of the movie but I’ve not seen it and am probably wrong.

[Guest]

I don't really see the point in watching this as a couple? I mean, if you've discussed the issue together, they know it's an issue. What good would come of two hours of watching what someone probably already feels bad/guilty for their spouse being upset over, other than going "I told you so!" that someone put the issue into a movie? Seems like two hours of discomfort and sadness and feeling very, very lonely and "other" and extremely distant from your partner for the non-sexual, leading to probably a while of awkward walls between partners and hopelessness about the relationship. And what gets gained by the sexual partner for that exchange? 

[Telecaster68]

Im skeptical about this 'they know it's an issue so no point in talking about it' idea. 

 

Firstly, it may not have been talked about. Or, the sexual partner tries to talk about it but the asexual avoids the discussion or closes it down, or promises they're 'working on it' but nothing changes for months or years. Or there's been some kind of conversation but the asexual really doesn't understand there's more going on than the sexual whining about not being allowed ice cream. Or that sex really is important for most people. All these things are common in mixed relationships. 

 

(And I know the standard response here is 'but asexuals know and are agonising about it' - but that's far from universally true, witness many posts from both sexuals and asexuals on here). 

 

Watching a film about the issue could open up a conversation, or create a new, more productive angle in an ongoing one. 

[Guest]

If you're married to someone who shuts you down when you try to discuss how you feel or accuses you of being a whiny child when upset about something, then there is a much deeper issue than sexual incompatibility and I think a therapist might be more beneficial than a movie... cause I doubt someone who cares that little about their partner's feelings and thoughts is suddenly gonna care after watching a fictional film. 

 

As for "working on it", it's not really something people can work on. So, they can be quite upset and still trying to figure out a way to make it work in their head and thus nothing happens. But, working on it means you've discussed it, so they should know the issue. 

 

I suppose it couldn't hurt to try the film if your partner has shown a complete lack of interest in even talking to you, but I wouldn't hold my breath on a film changing such a deep seated communication issue in a relationship. 

[anisotrophic]

My partner and I are constantly talking about his asexuality and how I'm trying to cope, trying to work it out together. So I feel like @Serran -- watching this feels like it would only rub salt into an open wound that we're already both very aware of.

 

And it doesn't seem like this would be the best way to get an avoidant partner to stop being avoidant.

[Telecaster68]

1 minute ago, Serran said:

If you're married to someone who shuts you down when you try to discuss how you feel or accuses you of being a whiny child when upset about something, then there is a much deeper issue than sexual incompatibility and I think a therapist might be more beneficial than a movie... cause I doubt someone who cares that little about their partner's feelings and thoughts is suddenly gonna care after watching a fictional film. 

 

As for "working on it", it's not really something people can work on. So, they can be quite upset and still trying to figure out a way to make it work in their head and thus nothing happens. But, working on it means you've discussed it, so they should know the issue. 

 

I suppose it couldn't hurt to try the film if your partner has shown a complete lack of interest in even talking to you, but I wouldn't hold my breath on a film changing such a deep seated communication issue in a relationship. 

It might not be they don't care, just they're too anxious to talk about it in any meaningful way. I've seen plenty of posts from asexuals where they say things along those lines. And 'working on it' is also amongst frequent responses, by which I assume the asexual is saying they're trying to figure things out in their head. Trying to get a partner to open up about something for which they see no upside in talking about is hard work, and sexuals do a lot of it. The alternative is walking away the second sex drops off. 

[Tarfeather]

21 minutes ago, Serran said:

I don't really see the point in watching this as a couple? I mean, if you've discussed the issue together, they know it's an issue. What good would come of two hours of watching what someone probably already feels bad/guilty for their spouse being upset over, other than going "I told you so!" that someone put the issue into a movie? Seems like two hours of discomfort and sadness and feeling very, very lonely and "other" and extremely distant from your partner for the non-sexual, leading to probably a while of awkward walls between partners and hopelessness about the relationship. And what gets gained by the sexual partner for that exchange? 

Well, imagining watching that with C., it would seem more like a "See, that's how things could have turned out if we didn't care about each other a lot and communicate well" kind of thing.. So I guess there might be some value in that? Appreciating more what you have? No idea.

 

11 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

My partner and I are constantly talking about his asexuality

 

Why?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It might not be they don't care, just they're too anxious to talk about it in any meaningful way. I've seen plenty of posts from asexuals where they say things along those lines. And 'working on it' is also amongst frequent responses, by which I assume the asexual is saying they're trying to figure things out in their head. Trying to get a partner to open up about something for which they see no upside in talking about is hard work, and sexuals do a lot of it. The alternative is walking away the second sex drops off. 

Mmm. I am very anxious and feel like there is little point discussing a certain issue (not sex, we're fine on that one 😛 ) I have in my relationship, because there is no fix to it - my partner feels one way, I feel another, there isn't changing either and neither of us is going to be happy about it. And, if my partner asked me to watch a movie about the topic, it would probably make me less likely to discuss it, not more. Actually, we ran into a movie that even touched on the topic (not on purpose, just a movie we were watching) and I had to stop watching it, cause it was starting to make me want to completely shut down. But, I guess some people could find it less anxiety inducing rather than more.

[Telecaster68]

One of the things films, books, exhibitions, plays, any shared cultural experience, can do is provoke a conversation, I'd have thought. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

One of the things films, books, exhibitions, plays, any shared cultural experience, can do is provoke a conversation, I'd have thought. 

They provoke emotion. And if that is tied to a topic that causes severe negative emotions, anxiety or the tendency to shut down... well, you bringing it up or the film bringing it up probably isn't going to be too much different. 

[Telecaster68]

Not just emotion. Discussion about the emotion, too, and coming at it via an external story could well be less scary than diving directly into the conversation. I don't think it should be written off as an approach anyway. 

[anisotrophic]

11 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

Why?

Because we're trying to work it out?

 

It's not like we entered into this relationship with this knowledge; it's new knowledge after many years of marriage. Trying to figure out what we do now is a work in progress, and maybe it always will be, but especially these days.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Not just emotion. Discussion about the emotion, too, and coming at it via an external story could well be less scary than diving directly into the conversation. I don't think it should be written off as an approach anyway. 

I guess it could work for some. Depending on the people.

 

Personally, wouldn't work for me, it would more likely shut down any discussion for days. And, I'm guessing some of the people who have said their partner's had strong negative reactions to the suggestion are running into the same thing. 

[Telecaster68]

That was just one person - Traveller's husband. 

[Guest]

Just now, Telecaster68 said:

That was just one person - Traveller's husband. 

And ryn said a similar approach to a different issue didn't go well. And anisotropic said it would be like rubbing salt in the wound to their issues. 

[NapoliGirl]

On 5/17/2018 at 8:48 AM, Traveler40 said:

Honestly, I think it would go over my husband’s head given he’s not sex repulsed.  He just wouldn’t identify with it even though he has zero desire or thought for intimacy of any kind.  I can guess he might even sit in judgment of Florence ironically. Perhaps this from a man who did not participate sexually in any way during his own honeymoon. I think I’ll skip it as well. Thanks for the synopsis though which was enough. 

Hey, Traveler40, are we married to the same guy??  Sure does sound like it.  Or perhaps instead, maybe they are long-lost twins!

 

Honeymoon....oh that....you mean the 2-week jaunt I took with what turned out to be my best guy buddy.  That trip.