Gldlynch

Is Bi any two genders, or "both" genders?

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Gldlynch

Hey AVEN

 

New post continued from my previous discussion.

 

I'm still trying to clarify what it means to be Bi and Pan (sexual or romantic) - clearly it is different for everyone.

 

From your understanding do you think Bi means any two genders? Or does it mean "both" genders?

 

Some people argue that Bi is when you're attracted to males and females... but what about gender non-binaries? Is it just about the two opposite sides of the gender spectrum? If people claim that this is "both" does it create a NB-phobic connotation? Other people argue that Bi can be any two genders.

 

Do you think Bi limits you to only date people who go by either she/her pronouns and him/her pronouns? People who date people who go by both or neither pronouns, is that another way to define Pan?

 

Where do transgender people sit in this discussion also?

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Puck

Oh boy! We get to have a definition debate about another sexual orientation!

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CBC

From a linguistic standpoint, I suppose it technically means any two. From a cultural one, historically it's meant men and women.

 

Also, what Puck said.

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Puck

Dictionary definition, note definition 1

 

bisexual

 (baɪˈsɛksjʊəl) 

adj
1. sexually attracted by both men and women
2. showing characteristics of both sexes: a bisexual personality. 
3. (Biology) (of some plants and animals) having both male and female reproductive organs
4. of or relating to both sexes
n
5. (Biology) a bisexual organism; a hermaphrodite
6. a bisexual person
bisexuality, biˈsexualism n
biˈsexually adv
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Blissful_Sins

OMG WHY DID YOU HAVE TO BRING THIS UP I'M CONFUSED AGAIN D; No 5alas, fuck it, I'm a Biromantic Asexuaul. I like both men and women, romantically. I do not want to screw anyone and I'd rather have CAKE like any sensible human being would. Good day, sir.

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Salmiakki

I think bisexuality has been known longer than non-binary genders so it originally means attraction to men and women. But now it can be attraction to any two genders since no other label covers just two genders. (I think)

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Jona

I agree with what people said before me.

 

Personally, I like the definition "liking people of both the same and a different gender identity"

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Luftschlosseule

It's used in both ways.

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Laurann

I think it would be weird to use 'bi' in the sense of 'I'm attracted to women and agender people, so I'm bi.' because if you can be attracted to agender people, you can probably also be attracted to bigender people or genderfluid people etcetera, so then that's already not two genders anymore. The word 'polysexual' (attracted to multiple genders, but not all) would work better in this situation. So yeah, I think bi just means 'attracted to men and women,' because it would be weird to only be attracted to one non-binary gender + one binary gender. I don't think that's a thing that really happens.

Spoiler

actually, people are attracted to people's gender expressions, not gender identities, because you can't truly know anyone else's gender identity anyways. So that makes it even more impossible to only be attracted to one non-binary gender identity.

 

To me, 'bi' does have a hint of non-binary erasure to it, because, even if you mean you are 'attracted to people of your own and people of different genders' (so that would include nb-genders), that's not what people you come out to will understand from that word. Unless you explicitly explain that it means you're also attracted to nb's, people will simply assume it means you're attracted to men and women. If you identify as 'pan', then that forces you to constantly assert the controversial opinion that non-binary people exist, and if you identify as bi, you get to avoid that. 

 

So personally I think saying that 'bi' means 'attracted to same and other genders' is just a cop-out. To me it sounds like you're actually pan, but you just don't want to go through the trouble of standing up for nb people. And you know, it's fine if you don't want to constantly get into arguments about that, I often say I'm bi when I just don't feel like making the next half hour of the conversation about the existence of nb's, but I just personally really dislike it when people deny that using the word bi for people who are technically pan erases nb people, because it does erase nb people. Let's just be honest about why we use the word 'bi' instead of 'pan.' It's convenient.

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wussa

I've heard somewhere that 'bi' just means more than one, so make what you will of that I suppose. 

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TheAP

A good post:

 

tumblr_p7x4r0JjS11qfviqwo1_500.png

 

tumblr_p7x4r0JjS11qfviqwo2_500.png

 

People may have different reasons for identifying as bi vs. pan. It's not inherently exclusive of non-binary genders. There are bi non-binary people.

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Philip027

My partner has used bi- to mean "people of my gender, and people of another gender" such that it basically means the same thing as pan-

 

People are a lot more likely to "get" bi- so I understand the reasoning.

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FictoVore.

This is how the two terms are used on Fetife, the worId's Iargest fetish community (with over 6 miIIion users). I spent a few years there and was invoIved in both pan and bi groups each with more members than the entirety of AVEN IoI

 

Bi - men and women (that's how practicaIIy every bi person I've ever met uses it, on and off FetIife - incIuding the brotheI I used to work at)

 

Pan (often confused with asexuaI funiIIy enough) - attracted to peopIe regardIess of their gender (or Iack thereof). the attraction isn't to any outward state of the person Iike gender/gender expression. Those things are irreIevant for a truIy pan person. 

 

So a pan person can desire someone sexuaIIy regardIess of gender (or Iack thereof), sexuaIity, appearance, etc etc. I've met a fair few peopIe here now identifying as ace because they desire sex with anyone, regardIess of gender or appearance. But no, that's pan. Bi is much more straight-foward because you desire sex specificaIIy with men and women, and the attraction is often to aspects of their gender specificaIIy (among other things of course).

 

Some peopIe get reaIIy mad at this and say they're the same thing, but yeah, I've onIy seen that on AVEN and tumbIresque websites.

 

On 4/29/2018 at 10:01 PM, Laurann said:

So yeah, I think bi just means 'attracted to men and women,'

yep you're correctomondo!

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scarletlatitude

^ agreed with Ficto. I think it's more about what you think of gender and how you are attracted to gender (or lack of it). 

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Artsy Anvil

Bisexuality by definition can mean being attracted to two genders. Any two. But when talking about bisexuality, it usually means being sexually attracted to both main sexes (notice how I say main since intersex people exist and matter). So yes, typically it means being attracted to males and females, but, it can mean being attracted to any two genders.

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iff

I had read an article (probably them.us) about bi+ gaining ground and in some instances replacing bisexual with bi+ representing a spectrum for bisexuality.

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Jusey1

I know this is a hard topic for a lot of people here, but I always follow the more cement definition, rather than the more clumsy one. Basically, I am someone who only believes in two genders (male and female). Which means, there is only four actual sexualities. One of which is Asexual (like myself) who don't like either genders. Bisexual is when you like both genders, and essentially, Pansexual means the exact same thing but it takes into consideration of the other genders which aren't necessarily real and physical but more in one's mind.

 

The problem with the other genders that I have is that they are technically infinity due to how the human mind works. Almost everyone thinks differently than everyone else. There is really no such thing as a "normal male mind" or a "normal female mind". Meaning, people who feels more like "one gender" or doesn't feel like a gender at all is essentially just them being themselves, not really them being this mental gender. Plus, there is also the mental disabilities that we will have to take into account that some people might have. (For the record, I'm Autistic myself. There is nothing wrong with having a mental disability. It just means you think differently than someone with a more "normal brain").

 

So, to me. Bisexual means BOTH. However, again, this is just how I look at it this whole situation. People will disagree, and I'm fine with that. We're all different people here, and we're all here to be together as a group supporting Asexuality anyways, we're not really here to dabble in literally everything out there.

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ixi
16 hours ago, Artisan_Anlimor said:

But when talking about bisexuality, it usually means being sexually attracted to both main sexes (notice how I say main since intersex people exist and matter). 

Yes,it's attraction to both sexes,not genders. This is why it is called bisexuality and not bigenderality.

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Star_

According to my research bi has been attracted to both male and female, pan being attracted to people regardless of gender and then poly (romantic or sexual not to be confused with polyamorous which is different) means being attracted to some but not all genders for example being attracted to girls and non binary people but not guys. This is just from my research though.

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ixi

How is it possible to be attracted to gender identities? I mean,you don't see how a person identifies. All you can see is the way the person dresses or does their hair and in most of the cases you can tell if the person is male or female. 

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CierraJasmineJ

Ok, so I’ve asked this question a lot before, and I’m still a bit confused on it. Here’s how I see it right now though. I have a friend who is pansexual, and she is attracted to people regardless of gender. That’s not to say she’s attracted to everyone, she’s told me she’s not sure what draws her to particular people, obviously there are some things like facial features that she finds attractive, but she can be attracted to a person of any gender. Meanwhile, I have another friend who’s pan, but she’s more usually attracted to boys. She feels comfortable identifying as pan, even though she has told me she has not felt attracted to a person of every gender. Even though she’s only been attracted thus far to mostly boys and some girls, she still is pan. On another note, my friend that is bi says she likes both boys and girls, but she prefers girls. Now, I haven’t spoken to her too much about it, so I do not know if she is also attracted to people who identify as neither male nor female. Overall, some of these people are pan, some of them are bi. I feel like, even if two people are attracted to the same spectrum of genders, one can identify as pan, and one as bi, and that’s fine. I mean, it can cause some confusion for some people, but I personally believe that if somebody wants to identify as bi even if they are attracted to all genders, that’s fine. I feel like most people who are pan are attracted to all genders, whether they have a preference or if they are attracted regardless of gender, but if somebody identifies that way, only they can really decide. I apologize sincerely for my lack of knowledge on the topic, so if I have unintentionally offended anybody with my words, feel free to let me know. 

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Mundane Mesh

@TheAP's post pretty much summed it up. I think the key take away is that different people chooses to use the two terms differently. Different people have different reasons to use one label over the other and have different understandings of what the difference is. To many the difference is quite small or even non-existent (some use the terms interchangeably or uses one or the other depending on who they're talking to).

On 5/13/2018 at 9:21 PM, ixi said:

How is it possible to be attracted to gender identities? I mean,you don't see how a person identifies. All you can see is the way the person dresses or does their hair and in most of the cases you can tell if the person is male or female. 

Yes. People aren't typically attracted to gender identities (you don't typically know someone's gender identity unless you ask) nor sex (it's not always that easy to tell, e.g. when it comes to intersex people and transgender people that has come far in their transition).

Rather, people are attracted to perceived gender and/or sexual characteristics as well as a bunch of other factors. And even that is a massive oversimplification. Someone could be primarily attracted to one gender, but prefer some traits typically associated with another gender. Or you could like some traits in combination with some other traits, but not in combination with others. Every label of sexual/romantic identity is a simplification/approximation. It's not bad to label your sexuality, but it's important to remember that it's not a perfect or exhaustive description by any means.

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iff
41 minutes ago, Mundane Mesh said:

Every label of sexual/romantic identity is a simplification/approximation. It's not bad to label your sexuality, but it's important to remember that it's not a perfect or exhaustive description by any means.

yes i agree, for me i found my labelling of my identity to be for me, rather than for any one else, as a way to help myself understand myself a little better.

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